EPTOh wow. 34 again is insane.
One Eternal Moment - Serral at GSL vs. The World - Page 2
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DSh1
292 Posts
Oh wow. 34 again is insane. | ||
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Yonnua
United Kingdom2331 Posts
On August 19 2018 11:32 Bagration wrote: Whoa now, let's not invalidate Neeb's Kespa Cup win, especially since he won against Rogue (2-0 win), Zest (2-0 win), and Stats (3-1 win) as well. Not to mention he dominated the finals 4-0 Writers like to do this for some reason, because it validates some narrative about Serral being the first player to achieve anything, while dismissing other foreign players who have done the same things at different (and often more challenging) times. | ||
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
Why not mention Jim? | ||
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Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Yet now Serral that won a tournament, the consensus seems to be that Neeb's win wasn't all that. Weird how that changes. I guess people really want the narrative that X has never been done before. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
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Fbaby
19 Posts
I think the main reason (that I find legit as well) why people want Serral achievements to be more meaningful than Neeb ones, is that when you watch Serral play all year long, you can see that his level of play is far higher than Neeb at his peak, and way more consistent. Serral's dominance against foreigner is literally unprecedented. He probably sweeps 80% of his Bo3+ matches against foreigners (would love to have stats on this), and he gives the impression of being a more complete player, with no real weaknesses. Neeb wasn't so dominant. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
On August 19 2018 20:50 Clazziquai10 wrote: I feel that while other foreigners have won Korean tourneys before, none has ever looked so dominant while doing so He did look really strong, but if you look at his wins it wasn't anymore impressive than what Neeb did imo. Kelazhur - Free win Innovation - Doesn't respect foreigners and plays standard vs them, so he is susceptible in to players hard-countering him with anti-inno builds. Scarlett beat him with ling cheese and Serral opted for roach/rav cheese. Serral prob spent the majority of his time prepping for either Rogue or Inno as he was bound to beat Kel. Dark: ZvZ is his weakest matchup. Stats: Eked out a comeback win. Neeb's Kespa Cup run 2-0 Rogue. 2-1 Byun. 3-2 Pet 3-1 Stats 4-0 Trap 7-1 vs #1 and #3 toss in the world Both achievements are impressive, but there is a reason the rational folks kept their heads and did not knight Neeb the best player after Kespa cup. It's a lot harder to be consistent vs. the best than mindgame or counterbuild them in one tournament. | ||
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Fbaby
19 Posts
On August 19 2018 21:57 tskarzyn wrote: He did look really strong, but if you look at his wins it wasn't anymore impressive than what Neeb did imo. Kelazhur - Free win Innovation - Doesn't respect foreigners and plays standard vs them, so he is susceptible in to players hard-countering him with anti-inno builds. Scarlett beat him with ling cheese and Serral opted for roach/rav cheese. Serral prob spent the majority of his time prepping for either Rogue or Inno as he was bound to beat Kel. Dark: ZvZ is his weakest matchup. Stats: Eked out a comeback win. Kespa Cup in 2016 Neeb 2-0 Rogue, best Zerg in the world. 2-1'd Byun. Nothing special but certainly a stronger player than Kelazhur at the time. 3-2 Pet: PvZ is a tough matchup regardless of the opponent. 3-1 Stats: Stomped the best Toss in the world. 4-0: Trap is strong PvPer. Both achievements are impressive, but there is a reason the rational folks kept their heads and did not knight Neeb the best player after Kespa cup. It's a lot harder to be consistent vs. the best than mindgame or counterbuild them in one tournament. You obviously weren't following the scene in 2016 but, Byun was the best player in the world at the time, Rogue was still some Ro8 GSL gatekeeper. Saying Rogue best zerg in the world in 2016 and Byun nothing special compared to Kelazhur proves that you don't know what you are talking about (not being rude, just avoiding people being confused by your comment). All your other comments tend to show that you're a bit biased towards Neeb but.. You really have to admit that Serral's run was way more impressive. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 19 2018 21:57 tskarzyn wrote: Neeb's Kespa Cup run 2-0 Rogue. 2-1 Byun. 3-2 Pet 3-1 Stats 4-0 Trap 7-1 vs #1 and #3 toss in the world Both achievements are impressive, but there is a reason the rational folks kept their heads and did not knight Neeb the best player after Kespa cup. It's a lot harder to be consistent vs. the best than mindgame or counterbuild them in one tournament. He never faced ByuN. He beat Rogue 2-0 then Zest 2-0. And Rogue was not great at the time. | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
On August 19 2018 11:26 ZigguratOfUr wrote: This moment could very well be eclipsed  Fixed that for you  | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
On August 19 2018 22:05 Fbaby wrote: You obviously weren't following the scene in 2016 but, Byun was the best player in the world at the time, Rogue was still some Ro8 GSL gatekeeper. Saying Rogue best zerg in the world in 2016 and Byun nothing special compared to Kelazhur proves that you don't know what you are talking about (not being rude, just avoiding people being confused by your comment). All your other comments tend to show that you're a bit biased towards Neeb but.. You really have to admit that Serral's run was way more impressive. Rogue #1 was not borne out by results at the time and is a stretch, but he was already a beast and poised to overtake the silver surfers. Zest/Byun, doesn't matter, both GSL champs and good koreans. Point is, Neeb won a Korean tournament stacked with good players just like Serral did but no one called him the best player in the world. In fact, I remember criticism that he just meta'd other toss players with a new style and he wasn't even the best toss in the world after crushing Zest, Trap, and Stats in one tournament. What Serral did was extremely impressive, but to claim he is the first foreigner to do it is simply not true. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 19 2018 22:54 tskarzyn wrote: Rogue #1 was not borne out by results at the time and is a stretch, but he was already a beast and poised to overtake the silver surfers. No he wasn't lol. He looked like a top 2-3 zerg at the end of 2015. But didn't accomplish much of anything noteworthy in 2016 minus a couple big upsets in proleague. Even at the start of 2017 he didn't look good. Failing to qualify or losing in the first round of most tournaments before he broke out in GSL season 2. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
On August 19 2018 22:59 Fango wrote: No he wasn't lol. He looked like a top 2-3 zerg at the end of 2015. But didn't accomplish much of anything noteworthy in 2016 minus a couple big upsets in proleague. Even at the start of 2017 he didn't look good. Failing to qualify or losing in the first round of most tournaments before he broke out in GSL season 2. Okay you're right... Rogue made semis of GSL Finals only 3 months before the Kespa cup, but Life was still in SC2 in late 2015 and my sense of time is f'd. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 19 2018 23:28 tskarzyn wrote: Okay you're right... Rogue made semis of GSL Finals only 3 months before the Kespa cup, but Life was still in SC2 in late 2015 and my sense of time is f'd. I'm seriously confused as to who or what you're talking about. | ||
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The Taxman
37 Posts
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drazen_os
1 Post
On August 19 2018 13:42 FrkFrJss wrote: I almost always cheer for Scarlett (unless against Neeb), and I really hoped for a better result than the ro8 (even though ro8 was quite impressive), but I still try to look at the results objectively. Scarlett beat two top foreigners, and a good up and coming TIME. Scarlett destroyed sOs, who was and is always very good. However, Scarlett only beat on top P in sOs. Serral, on the other hand, destroyed a top 3 Terran in Innovation, top 3 Zerg in Dark, crushed the best player in the world in a bo1, and played a very back and forth series with the best Protoss in the world in Stats. Oh, and Serral also beat Kelazhur. The size and scope of Serral's achievement is just in another tier than Scarlett's victory. By no means am I trying to minimize Scarlett's achieve or utter domination of the competition with only 4 map losses in the entire tournament. But Serral not only beat one top Korean, he beat three top Koreans of all different races. Actually, that is exactly what you are doing. Trying to minimize Scarlett's achievement. Everything that came before BUT in that last paragraph is invalidated by what comes after it. I get that Serral is your god and you worship him, but to not even mention Scarlett because YOU think her achievement is not in the same league is just wow. | ||
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YamiRi
152 Posts
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
On August 19 2018 23:45 Fango wrote: I'm seriously confused as to who or what you're talking about. Rogue was a strong zerg, but you're right that he wasn't a top zerg in 2016. | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
What is also pretty insane is that Dark had never lost more than one game to a non-Korean in an offline Bo5 On August 19 2018 21:56 Fbaby wrote:He probably sweeps 80% of his Bo3+ matches against foreigners (would love to have stats on this), and he gives the impression of being a more complete player, with no real weaknesses. Neeb wasn't so dominant. Serral has now won 93.98% (78-5) of his bo3+ matches against foreigners since the 4.0 patch 9 months ago. And he's actually won his last 40 (being 107-12, 89,92% in games) in the six months. The impression is quite accurate. Edit. Oh you were just talking about the sweeps. Had a look and during that time 59 of his 78 series wins (75.64%) have been sweeps. | ||
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