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Power Rank: August 2018

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Power Rank: August 2018

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byhexhaven
August 7th, 2018 14:40 GMT

Power Rank: August 2018

by TeamLiquid.net writers

Welcome to another edition of the TeamLiquid.net Power Rank! The Power Rank comes in a week late again this month, as GSL vs the World was still going on and we wanted to wait for it to finish. Makes sense, right? As usual, here is our summary of the Power Rank criteria:
  • Results up to August 5th (GSL vs. The World) were taken into consideration.
  • The Power Rank is an aggregate, average ranking of separate lists submitted by individual members of the TeamLiquid.net writing staff.
  • Criteria considered include, but are not limited to: Tournament placements, overall record, quality of opponents faced, quality of play.
  • Recent results are weighted more heavily, but players may receive benefit of the doubt for consistent performances over time.

Previous Power Rank: Power Rank: July 2018


Close, But No Cigar


(Wiki)Impact: Congratulations to Impact for finally breaking his Code S curse and making it to the RO16! If he can continue to bring his online level of play to the GSL studio, he could easily break into the top ten in the future.

(Wiki)soO: soO's 2-3 loss to Maru was actually a credit to him, as his dismal ZvT was one of the main reasons he was falling in tournaments (and in the rankings). Unfortunately, there's just no excusing his losses to Keen and SpeCial that saw him drop out of the Code S RO32.

(Wiki)sOs: sOs' only result in the past month was reaching the Code S RO16 with victories over Ryung and Classic, which isn't quite enough for him to recover a top ten position. Perhaps things would have been different if he won the Korean Protoss vote and and competed instead of Zest at GSL vs. The World...

(Wiki)Zest: What a fall for Zest, dropping out of the power rank just two months after reaching the Code S finals. He could have squeezed into the top ten before GSL vs. The World, but his loss to ShoWTimE sees him drop into CBNC as other rise.

#10

[image loading]
INnoVation

New
Much was made of the fact that INnoVation was excluded from last months power ranking, but there's no doubt that his inclusion was deserved this time around. INnoVation had his best month of 2018 in July. He looked unconvincing at times at HomeStory Cup, but he was the one left standing when the dust settled. That victory seemed to be the harbinger of another prosperous summer as INnoVation swept his GSL group en route to the Round of 16.

For a moment, INnoVation gave the community a reason to believe he had returned to his dominating form of old when he throttled Rogue in the first round of GSL vs. the World. He was then swept by Serral, who made it clear in no uncertain terms that INnoVation doesn’t belong among the truly elite.

Of course, there’s still time to turn things around. INnoVation performances in the summer months have been historic, and he looked strong in Code S. Group nomination are right around the corner, and the weeks that follow will tell us if INnoVation is ready to mount a campaign for a fourth GSL championship, or if he'll simply melt in the heat.


#9

[image loading]
Trap

No change
A lot has happened since our last power ranking. Serral won GSL vs. the World. soO was eliminated from GSL. INnoVation won HSC and Leenock turned the clock back half a decade. And yet, lost amid all the success and failures that have colored our scene over the past month, is the fact that Trap’s stranglehold over the number nine spot on the Teamliquid power rank is as solid as ever.

Trap neither benefited nor suffered from competing in GSL vs. The World, so our lasting impression of him from July is his authoritative take down of Bunny and TY in the Code S RO32. His daring proxy gate play against TY was particularly striking. Trap now finds himself in the Round of 16 of Code S for the sixth time in his last seven tries. The sobering reality is that’ it’s always been the end of the road—Trap has gone 1-2 in his Round of 16 group on each of his previous five trips.

Some might be surprised to learn that Trap currently sits in the eighth spot in the WCS Korea Standings. If he can maintain a similar death-grip on that spot as he has in the TL power rankings, then an unexpected trip to BlizzCon might be in store for our quietly consistent Protoss.


#8

[image loading]
GuMiho

- 1
GuMiho has been his usual active self over the past month or so, playing a whopping 88 games across a variety of tournaments. His opening GSL group was undoubtedly the most important of the lot, and GuMiho passed the test with flying colors. While he didn't face the toughest of opponents, wins over herO and MMA saw him reach the Round of 16 where he’ll hope to earn a repeat RO8 appearance.

GuMiho’s results online have been less impressive. Wins over Rogue, TY and Trap are promising in a vacuum, but when counterbalanced by losses to Zest, Dark and Bunny, things start to sour a bit. One could chalk GuMiho’s spotted results up to his packed schedule and the relatively relaxed environment, but GuMiho recent inconsistency is a worry trend. It serves as a reminder that GuMiho remains in the second tier of Korean StarCraft II beneath elites like Dark and Maru. He’s competitive and has a puncher's chance, but is rarely a favorite against the real heavyweights.


#7

[image loading]
Classic

- 4
Classic had a rough July, which began with Code S elimination at the hands of GSL rookie Reynor. Things didn't get much better after. He lost to Reynor (again) in OlimoLeague, and then had some mixed performances in Master's Coliseum that saw him beat soO and Leenock yet lose to ByuN and Impact. In GSL vs. The World, he narrowly defeated Scarlett 3-2, followed by an equally tight 2-3 defeat at the hands of Dark.

Not all of Classic's fall in the ranking is due to his poor results—he was also surpassed by a handful of players making dramatic rises. Still, dropping out of Code S in the RO32 is borderline inexcusable for a Power Rank player, and it's our respect for Classic's long run as an elite player that keeps him in the middle of the rankings. Classic's close series versus Dark showed us that he still has a lot of fight in him, and he may very well use his remaining opportunities to remind us why he's been 2018's best Protoss.


#6

[image loading]
TY

- 1
TY made his triumphant return to the Teamliquid power rankings last month, and he prolonged his stay in the top ten due to some uncharacteristically active tournament participation. Most of the time, TY’s paucity of matches makes ranking him a guessing game, but his literally unprecedented level of activity over the last month (actually the most tournament games in a month in his entire career) paints a clearer picture. TY went 16–5 in matches with wins over the likes of Rogue, Dark, and Classic, and secured his Code S RO16 spot.

The competition is a bit sparse, but TY has earned the right to be called the second best Terran in Korea behind Maru. It’s a shame he isn’t more popular, because GSL vs. The World could have been an intriguing test to see how he measures up against the top championship contenders. If he had been in INnoVaton's spot, could he have put up a better fight against Serral? Would he have even advanced beyond Rogue?


#5

[image loading]
Rogue

- 3
With a lot of players putting in strong performances and moving up in our ranking, someone had to drop down to accommodate them—that someone was Rogue.This comes despite this past month being quite good to him: he maintained reasonable online form with about as many good wins as bad losses, and advanced easily from his GSL RO32 group (in no small part due to the shocking upset of soO). But GSL vs The World is what ultimately made him lose ground.

Rogue essentially answers the question of 'How far can one bad Best of 5 make you fall down?' in this month's Power Rank. Turns out that, in a scene as cutthroat and ruthless as this one, it can make you fall three spots. It wasn't just that he lost to INnoVation while playing a generic and generally weak style without too much resistence, but it was how easily Serral dissected the supposedly-returning Terran right afterwards. That certainly leaves a bad taste in one's mouth about Rogue's level, but he remains reasonably consistent. His dropping down really is more to do with others outperforming him this month than him doing poorly.


#4

[image loading]
Dark

+ 4
Dark has had a rather strong month. His online form has been strong, and he converted it into dominating victories over Neeb in the GSL RO32 and GSL vs the World, as well as a victory against Classic and a good series against Serral (despite losing the latter to the eventual champion).

Dark is one of the most balanced and consistent Zergs out there, an elite player in all three matchups who is perhaps guilty of falling just below the very best at times. And despite again losing out in GSL vs The World, the level he's currently exhibiting shows vast improvement and an ability to compete for the big titles again. Watch out for Dark in GSL and the Super Tournament next month.


#3

[image loading]
Stats

New
After a lengthy relegation to close-but-no-cigar purgatory, Stats once again graces us with his presence in this Power Rank. While his Code S group went largely as expected with him falling to INnoVation before sweeping Cure and Hurricane to advance in second place, it was his surprisingly solid performance in GSL vs. the World that has him rocketing back up. He followed up two quick 3-0 beatdowns against Cyan and Special with extremely resilient play to mark a monumental 3-1 victory over Maru, silencing the doubters that stated he’d lost his championship touch. A bitterly fought loss against Serral undoubtedly ruined the ending Stats wanted, but, for the most part, Stats has shown stable play while simultaneously reaffirming his ability to beat the best, something he’s been lacking ever since his quick exit from the GSL last season. Preparation was the name of the game for Stats in this tournament, and it showed in the diversity of strategies utilized in his wins against Maru and the first two games against Serral.

Stats has always been consistent, even if his online record belies his offline performances and pushes doubts towards his overall skill level. Thankfully for his fans, he seems to be peaking just in time for the last leg of the year which holds the final season of GSL and, more importantly, a return trip to Blizzcon. All in all, Stats has shown strong performances since his mid season drop and fully deserves this spot.


#2

[image loading]
Serral

+ 4
It happened. We saw Serral play Koreans, and the results were nothing short of astounding. He's not only the best foreigner in the world, but his championship at GSL vs The World even has a lot of people calling him the outright best player in the world—and they might be right.

The manner in which he won GSL vs The World is what truly makes his run so impressive. He 3-0'd INnoVation (who came off a victory against Rogue), ended Dark's winstreak against foreigners, then clutched the finals against Stats after falling behind in the series twice. The cherry on top, however small it may seem, is his victory over Maru in the team match.

You might have expected Serral to come in first in this ranking, and we assure you it was by no means an easy decision to put him in second place. The only thing holding him back minimally is that GSL vs The World is 'only' one tournament against the very best Koreans, and the player above him has put together a string of them, impressing in all. If Serral keeps playing at this level, though, you will see him top this ranking sooner rather than later.


#1

[image loading]
Maru

No Change
As hinted above, Maru still holds the top spot on this list after a rather shaky showing in GSL vs. the World (by his standards—he still reached the semifinals). What saves his throne this month is less that he excelled this month, but more the consistency he showed in months prior leaving him with a bit of a 'buffer' that allows him to remain here despite not winning everything he enters.

Maru looked remarkably human in GSL versus the World, but his overall numbers have yet to dip. His GSL Ro32 was more challenging than you'd expect, but wins over Leenock and Forte sent him through to the Round of 16 in GSL. And, while he suffered losses to Stats and Serral during the main event and team portion of GSL vs. the World respectively, he never looked so out of depth that we could conclusively say he's gotten worse compared to months prior. At the end of the day, he retains a 23-3 series record, and while that may not be as awe-inspiring as his previous 22-1, we're choosing to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially given the level of competition he regularly faces.

So, albeit barely, Maru keeps his top spot in our Power Rank.



Credits and acknowledgements

Ranking contributors: TeamLiquid.net writing staff
Writers: Mizenhauer, Orlok, Soularion, Wax
Editor: Wax, Olli
Photo Credit: Adela Sznajder
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TL+ Member
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
August 07 2018 14:44 GMT
#2
agree with it. could see stats over serral even.

Interesting that only after a protoss switch, innovation made it back to top 10
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
August 07 2018 14:49 GMT
#3
Trap is a god of his domain.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
stardog
Profile Joined August 2011
556 Posts
August 07 2018 14:55 GMT
#4
I like that Serral is not on top. While he did everything he could possibly do during GSL vs The World I think that being number 1 requires consistency across a few tournaments with word's best players, something he hasn't had a chance to show yet. Especially that next time Koreans will probably target him specifically.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
August 07 2018 14:56 GMT
#5
Seems like a very good ranking, thanks!
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 15:10:47
August 07 2018 15:04 GMT
#6
I'll be honest, the notion that serral was really close to toping this list is worrisome to me, but he seems always a tad bit overhyped in these with the data available at that point. Definitely deserves to be in the top3 though, no doubt about that.

Looks like a reasonable list though, though scared for the next one (which i assume will come out after the wcs event serral surely will win )
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12769 Posts
August 07 2018 15:07 GMT
#7
I don't think they'll put him top 1 if he wins against "mere" foreigners in WCS.

It's more probable that he loses places if he underperforms in this event, but maybe if both Maru and Stats don't qualify for ro8 and he wins the event he can go #1.
WriterMaru
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
August 07 2018 15:13 GMT
#8
So Serral is the best Zerg in the world, I’ll take it
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
August 07 2018 15:16 GMT
#9
Stats not being 2 is debatable.
TL+ Member
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12769 Posts
August 07 2018 15:17 GMT
#10
On August 08 2018 00:16 DieuCure wrote:
Stats not being 2 is debatable.

Well he lost to Serral in the end.
Serral won head-to-head + dominates foreigners harder
WriterMaru
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
August 07 2018 15:24 GMT
#11
On August 08 2018 00:16 DieuCure wrote:
Stats not being 2 is debatable.

Debatable yes. But not a convincing argument. He lost the bo7 to Serral, and bombed out of GSL last season, and hasn't looked super convincing this season.

If he didn't beat Maru in GSL vs TW he wouldn't even be top 10.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States870 Posts
August 07 2018 15:29 GMT
#12
Nobody ever mentions Serral's stunning victory over Kelazhur, the overwhelming favorite to win the tournament based on number of votes.

Seriously though, I think this is one of the least controversial PWs in recent memory. Serral finally proved he was worthy of a spot. Well done!
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
August 07 2018 15:31 GMT
#13
soO deserves the #10 spot over INno.

If GSL vs TW was qualifiers instead of votes, I don't think INno (or Rogue) would have been in it. soO would have a really good chance though, he looked good in the event, unlike INno. The critical weakness of ZvT has faded to some degree, he looked worse than Maru but not clueless.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
D-light
Profile Joined April 2012
Finland7364 Posts
August 07 2018 15:42 GMT
#14
Kinda surprised that Serral went all the way up to second place. Definitely top-5 though.

Ps. Innovation has the protoss symbol.
why even
dummy1
Profile Blog Joined April 2018
420 Posts
August 07 2018 16:19 GMT
#15
Fair enough, but I'd like to put Stats above Serral.
https://www.youtube.com/c/DepressingStarcraft <- Maru VODs and stuff | END REGION-LOCK NOW
xelnaga_empire
Profile Joined March 2012
627 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 16:25:50
August 07 2018 16:22 GMT
#16
IMO, Trap is fool's gold. sOs and Zest are close to Trap in Blizzcon points and I would put money on sOs or Zest to make the finals of a Premier tournament before I would on Trap.
DSK
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
England1110 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 16:25:09
August 07 2018 16:24 GMT
#17
I applaud the writers for not putting Serral in first place. That's a hell of a lot of restraint. I can agree with this list. Well done.
**@ YT: SC2POVs at https://www.youtube.com/c/SC2POVsTV | https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/SC2POVs @**
Dingodile
Profile Joined December 2011
4133 Posts
August 07 2018 16:25 GMT
#18
two youngest players are in top two?!
Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
August 07 2018 16:27 GMT
#19
On August 08 2018 01:25 Dingodile wrote:
two youngest players are in top two?!

It's weird to think of Maru as a young player when he's been around since the very first GSL 8 years ago
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55502 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 16:30:58
August 07 2018 16:30 GMT
#20
On August 08 2018 01:22 xelnaga_empire wrote:
IMO, Trap is fool's gold. sOs and Zest are close to Trap in Blizzcon points and I would put money on sOs or Zest to make the finals of a Premier tournament before I would on Trap.

Zest and sOs have the potential to go much higher than Trap (although Trap has made some great runs throughout his career) but they also have much crazier downward swings. Trap always meets expectations (pretty much exactly), sOs & Zest either exceed expectations or fully disappoint.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
August 07 2018 16:49 GMT
#21
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol
IArako
Profile Joined June 2015
Germany195 Posts
August 07 2018 17:22 GMT
#22
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol


True, and still there are many people in here saying Stats should be #2. I dont get it why cant they accept Serral beat everyone this month? But oh no, hes not korean so he cant possibly be this high...
Special Tactics
NoobSkills
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1597 Posts
August 07 2018 17:24 GMT
#23
Want to see him in an actual GSL season before I buy the hype train.
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8302 Posts
August 07 2018 17:55 GMT
#24
I'm down with this list. I think it'd be odd to put Stats at #2 after one good tournament that he didn't even win. Serral's been showing good form for a year, and he loudly answered the question that has haunted him (despite in-part answering it at Katowice and WESG): how does he fair against Koreans? At the end of the day, the fact of the matter is he hasn't lost to ANYONE in quite some time. He deserves his number 2 spot.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15897 Posts
August 07 2018 17:58 GMT
#25
Surprised Classic is still in this list after dropping out of the ro32.
When Stats dropped out of the ro16 he completely fell from the list despite having even stronger results previously than Classic now.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55502 Posts
August 07 2018 18:01 GMT
#26
On August 08 2018 02:58 Charoisaur wrote:
Surprised Classic is still in this list after dropping out of the ro32.
When Stats dropped out of the ro16 he completely fell from the list despite having even stronger results previously than Classic now.

They do tend to struggle with consistency. My favorite example being TY getting into the PR despite no results because "he's TY" and then dropping out the next month despite winning all his games.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15897 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 18:17:50
August 07 2018 18:02 GMT
#27
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol

Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance.
Also he won literally every tournament?
WESG and Katowice didn't happen?

Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.


-


Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list.
I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
August 07 2018 19:09 GMT
#28
On August 08 2018 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol

Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance.
Also he won literally every tournament?
WESG and Katowice didn't happen?

Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.


-


Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list.
I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before


To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
August 07 2018 19:21 GMT
#29
Serral #1
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 19:33:10
August 07 2018 19:24 GMT
#30
On August 08 2018 04:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol

Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance.
Also he won literally every tournament?
WESG and Katowice didn't happen?

Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.


-


Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list.
I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before


To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.


The true test for maru will be gsl, if he bombs out before ro4 serral will overtake him for sure. Probably even if he doesn't make finals at this point :D
Though i think maru's style he showed the last two gsls might be somewhat figured out now, this midgame centered gameplay. If soO wouldn't be totally clueless in lategame he would have won rather easily, leenock did it one game and serral as well. Now that stats also showed how to deal with maru in pvt it will be interesting to see how this develops.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
435
Profile Joined March 2018
39 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 19:34:01
August 07 2018 19:33 GMT
#31
Serral #1
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 19:36:09
August 07 2018 19:35 GMT
#32
Reasonable enough. I'll humbly admit I was wrong about Serral (though I think he exceeded expectations for even the biggest fanboys as well) and he has clearly earned his #2 spot given that this appears to only cover July - August 5th.

Classic over Gumi is totally stupid though. Gumi has a stronger sampling of games over the past month and a superior win percentage. He also wins in the most important category of actually making it out of his GSL group (in 1st over herO!). Classic's only advantage is GSL vs The World where he only did alright.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
August 07 2018 19:38 GMT
#33
On August 08 2018 04:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol

Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance.
Also he won literally every tournament?
WESG and Katowice didn't happen?

Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.


-


Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list.
I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before


To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.

Well even gods need to rest
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Lysergic1
Profile Joined August 2017
21 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 20:10:38
August 07 2018 20:10 GMT
#34
Serral ftw. Gotta say I was surprised by his dismantling of both Inno and Dark. Less surprised he beat Stats, but still super impressive. He's easily top 3 in the world, and as likely to be #1 as anyone. If he wins the next premier involving Koreans I'd say he's the first "Best SC2 player in the world not a Korean". I don't think anyone else ever reached that plateau.
Ziggy
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
South Korea2105 Posts
August 07 2018 20:18 GMT
#35
trap above inno? nooo...
WriterDefeating a sandwich only makes it tastier. @imjustziggy
MyLovelyLurker
Profile Joined April 2007
France756 Posts
August 07 2018 20:26 GMT
#36
Very reasonable and satisfying PR, except maybe for Trap.
"I just say, it doesn't matter win or lose, I just love Starcraft 2, I love this game, I love this stage, just play like in practice" - TIME/Oliveira
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
August 07 2018 21:20 GMT
#37
On August 08 2018 04:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol

Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance.
Also he won literally every tournament?
WESG and Katowice didn't happen?

Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.


-


Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list.
I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before


To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.

Maru was also in shakey form during supertournament 1, both then and in GSL vs TW he said he was taking time off to recharge so it makes sense.

If he flops in GSL S3 however, then you can make the case his form has dipped.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 21:28:42
August 07 2018 21:27 GMT
#38
Has Maru not won two straight GSL’s as well as other strong performances ? That so rarely happens, so I don’t think it’s close between Serral and Maru just yet, he deserves to comfortably hold that title . I think Serral slotting in right behind him is perfectly fine though, certainly should be above stats.
Shathe
Profile Joined July 2017
Hungary422 Posts
August 07 2018 21:56 GMT
#39
Serral proved that he is on the same level as the top koreans. Despite this incredible run, i cant say he is surely the best or even top 3. I think Maru, Rogue, Dark could beat him just as well they could lose to him. Theese guys are very close right now. Maybe Maru is the one who is clearly above everyone hence his continous succes amoung the BEST players.
ValM
Profile Joined May 2010
India408 Posts
August 07 2018 21:57 GMT
#40
On August 08 2018 04:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol

Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance.
Also he won literally every tournament?
WESG and Katowice didn't happen?

Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.


-


Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list.
I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before


To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.


Great point, but two things we must consider:

(1) It was blatantly obvious that Maru was freestyling. His only builds were his 2-1-1 tank push or proxy 2 rax. I am surprised with him doing the 2-1-1 tank opener despite it being so out there for all zergs to adapt to ever since he took out rogue with it. He basically puts himself behind doing this. Would be better off doing a fast 3 CC opening but then again hes Maru.

(2) Considering what his ZvT looked like earlier, sOO looked way sharper. I feel he vastly improved his ZvT before this tourney and considering Rogue who didnt play anywhere close to his own level, its tough to say who was better/worse. But I feel sOO wouldve given Inno a very tough fight had they met up.

As far as this tourney goes, obviously serral was way better than an zerg that entered.
The Terran Prince is now the king. Maru | MMA | Mvp forever
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
August 07 2018 22:18 GMT
#41
On August 08 2018 01:27 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 01:25 Dingodile wrote:
two youngest players are in top two?!

It's weird to think of Maru as a young player when he's been around since the very first GSL 8 years ago


It's also weird thinking that I used to get Maru confused with Maka.
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
FLuX.960
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand20 Posts
August 07 2018 22:34 GMT
#42
Surprised that Rogue is at the 5th spot, he's had a horrendous month and his ZvT looks absolutely woeful.

Also kinda surprised that Innovation eeks out the 10th place spot in this list, for me he's close but no cigar, I'd probably have given that 10th place spot to soO who, outside of the finals (a close 4-3 for Inno), went 23-4 in maps at HSC XVII compared to Innovation's comparatively poor 26-12 map score.

Otherwise, soO had a relatively mediocre month, and there's no really convincing contender for that 10th place, however I'm not sure that Innovation has proven that he deserves it outside of a very shaky tournament win at HSC XVII.
IArako
Profile Joined June 2015
Germany195 Posts
August 07 2018 23:14 GMT
#43
On August 08 2018 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol

Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance.
Also he won literally every tournament?
WESG and Katowice didn't happen?

Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.


-


Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list.
I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before


You realize Serral beat Maru? Even if it was only bo1 how can you say hes not close to be over Maru if he literally just beat him?
Special Tactics
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15897 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 23:26:33
August 07 2018 23:25 GMT
#44
On August 08 2018 08:14 IArako wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol

Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance.
Also he won literally every tournament?
WESG and Katowice didn't happen?

Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.


-


Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list.
I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before


You realize Serral beat Maru? Even if it was only bo1 how can you say hes not close to be over Maru if he literally just beat him?

Is Leenock also close to Maru? Patience?
Was TerrOr Prime close to Byul when he beat him?
That's not how it works buddy; a bo1 tells basically nothing.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
August 07 2018 23:42 GMT
#45
Ironically, I bet if Maru had beaten Stats but lost to Serral in a Bo7 in the GSL vs. World finals, Serral would be #1, and not Maru.

By bowing out one round earlier, Maru probably held on to his top position (barely)
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
August 07 2018 23:52 GMT
#46
On August 08 2018 08:25 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 08:14 IArako wrote:
On August 08 2018 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol

Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance.
Also he won literally every tournament?
WESG and Katowice didn't happen?

Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.


-


Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list.
I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before


You realize Serral beat Maru? Even if it was only bo1 how can you say hes not close to be over Maru if he literally just beat him?

Is Leenock also close to Maru? Patience?
Was TerrOr Prime close to Byul when he beat him?
That's not how it works buddy; a bo1 tells basically nothing.


Leenock is clearly top 4 in the world. TerrOr would have been as good as Serral if he wasn't stuck on a team of match fixers.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33277 Posts
August 08 2018 00:23 GMT
#47
Trap over INnoVation for solely meme purposes is a crime :s
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
August 08 2018 01:17 GMT
#48
On August 08 2018 08:42 Bagration wrote:
Ironically, I bet if Maru had beaten Stats but lost to Serral in a Bo7 in the GSL vs. World finals, Serral would be #1, and not Maru.

By bowing out one round earlier, Maru probably held on to his top position (barely)


worth
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-08 01:38:18
August 08 2018 01:36 GMT
#49
On August 08 2018 08:42 Bagration wrote:
Ironically, I bet if Maru had beaten Stats but lost to Serral in a Bo7 in the GSL vs. World finals, Serral would be #1, and not Maru.

By bowing out one round earlier, Maru probably held on to his top position (barely)

This is probably true. If Maru had played in the final I think Serral would have 4-1 or 4-2. Unless Maru suddenly returned to GSL playoff form.

Then again if his form was good enough to get over Stats, it was probably good enough to get over Serral. But I don't think he was beating either that day.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19219 Posts
August 08 2018 01:37 GMT
#50
Had Reynor not met Serral until the finals he would be CBNC contender. I can't wait to see where he gets placed if he advances in ro16.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-08 01:39:38
August 08 2018 01:39 GMT
#51
On August 08 2018 10:37 BisuDagger wrote:
Had Reynor not met Serral until the finals he would be CBNC contender. I can't wait to see where he gets placed if he advances in ro16.

Had SpeCial been on the other side of the bracket, he probably makes the final and loses to Serral in it as well.

Maybe even Scarlett actually. The Valencia bracket was so top heavy.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Kingsky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Singapore298 Posts
August 08 2018 04:14 GMT
#52
Serral is amazing. Now that it's shown a non Korean can make it I hope that the next Top 20 list won't be 19 Koreans and Finland
Why do people hate the Colossus? Because the Colossus is like banksters from Wall Street: “too big to fail”. - TheDwF
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
August 08 2018 04:51 GMT
#53
Higher than I expected
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
August 08 2018 05:42 GMT
#54
I don't like it, but I can't really argue with it, Serral keeps winning everything.
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
jinroairwings
Profile Joined August 2018
11 Posts
August 08 2018 06:47 GMT
#55
I would agree with this list, except I don't think Serral deserves to be in the top 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, etc.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15897 Posts
August 08 2018 06:54 GMT
#56
On August 08 2018 10:39 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 10:37 BisuDagger wrote:
Had Reynor not met Serral until the finals he would be CBNC contender. I can't wait to see where he gets placed if he advances in ro16.

Had SpeCial been on the other side of the bracket, he probably makes the final and loses to Serral in it as well.

Maybe even Scarlett actually. The Valencia bracket was so top heavy.

Come on, if any of those guys would've been on the other side of the bracket Has would've destroyed them.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
neutralrobot
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia1025 Posts
August 08 2018 08:35 GMT
#57
On August 08 2018 04:38 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 04:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On August 08 2018 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:
On August 08 2018 01:49 travis wrote:
So Serral, who has won literally every tournament he joins for like the last year, goes up 4 spots with his GSL vs the world win.

Stats goes up infinity spots, flying up past everyone to the #3 position just beneath Serral, after getting 2nd place in that same tournament.

It's kind of odd, because maybe he actually is deserving of the #3 spot. But it still hardly seems fair, lol

Serral only goes up 4 spots because #1 is almost unreachable considering Maru's dominance.
Also he won literally every tournament?
WESG and Katowice didn't happen?

Stats being so low previously was totally unjustified though and it seems TL writers recognized their mistake.


-


Also I disagree with the notion that Serral is close to topping the list.
I agree with his ranking but he really shouldn't be close to Maru after winning 1 tournament. When Stats won the Super Tournament he wasn't considered close to Maru despite even having reached the GSL finals before


To be fair Maru looks to be in a much shakier form than he was back then. Almost losing to soO's ZvT isn't really what we expect of him.

Well even gods need to rest


He slumbers like a classic Lovecraftian elder god.
Maru | Life | PartinG || I guess I like aggressive control freaks... || Reynor will one day reign supreme || *reyn supreme
SnowAngel
Profile Joined January 2012
Finland38 Posts
August 08 2018 09:07 GMT
#58
I agree with the list, except I would put Dark over Stats. Stats might be a tad hotter now, but lacks consistency over time.
serendipitous
Profile Joined November 2017
Canada195 Posts
August 08 2018 09:59 GMT
#59
On August 08 2018 18:07 SnowAngel wrote:
I agree with the list, except I would put Dark over Stats. Stats might be a tad hotter now, but lacks consistency over time.

Like when Dark went 0-4 in the ro16? Stats is more consistent than Dark is
shabby
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway6402 Posts
August 08 2018 09:59 GMT
#60
On August 08 2018 15:47 jinroairwings wrote:
I would agree with this list, except I don't think Serral deserves to be in the top 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, etc.


I agree with you, top 2 is much more accurate.
Jaedong, Gumibear, Leenock, Byun
HungrySC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States191 Posts
August 08 2018 12:38 GMT
#61
Maru lost because he didn't want to play against Serral in the final.
"First say to yourself what you would be; And then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)
Rodya
Profile Joined January 2018
546 Posts
August 08 2018 14:04 GMT
#62
Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.

He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.
Banned for saying "zerg players are by far the biggest whiners in sc2 history" despite the fact that this forum is full of such posts about Terrans. Foreigner Elitists in control!
BjoernK
Profile Joined April 2012
194 Posts
August 08 2018 14:26 GMT
#63
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote:
Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.

He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.


What place would you give him? Anything below 3 is very hard to justify in my opinion.
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
August 08 2018 14:26 GMT
#64
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote:
Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.

He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.


He's performed well against koreans in two prior tournaments, won 3 WCS events back to back in utterly dominant fashion and his wins against Dark and Inno were pretty convincing. It's hardly "sudden".
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
August 08 2018 14:31 GMT
#65
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote:
Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.

He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.


I've lost count of how many things we're fanboys of that all contradict each other.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-08 14:48:13
August 08 2018 14:35 GMT
#66
You guys remember that Serral did beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap at IEM Katowice to reach the semis earlier this year? It's not like this was the first time Serral played vs Koreans and did well.

#2 is perfectly fine after this performance. This is the August 2018 ranking, not the GOAT of LotV ranking.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 08 2018 14:38 GMT
#67
On August 08 2018 23:35 Musicus wrote:
You guys remember that Serral did beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap and IEM Katowice to reach the semis earlier this year? It's not like this was the first time Serral played vs Koreans and did well.

#2 is perfectly fine after this performance. This is the August 2018 ranking, not the GOAT of LotV ranking.

Him being 2nd is fine for sure, the notion that he was extremely close to take 1st is kinda laughable though imo.

On August 08 2018 23:31 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote:
Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.

He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.


I've lost count of how many things we're fanboys of that all contradict each other.


Don't worry about that, the community has the spreadsheet and images rdy.
Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Soularion
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Canada2764 Posts
August 08 2018 16:30 GMT
#68
On August 08 2018 23:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 23:35 Musicus wrote:
You guys remember that Serral did beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap and IEM Katowice to reach the semis earlier this year? It's not like this was the first time Serral played vs Koreans and did well.

#2 is perfectly fine after this performance. This is the August 2018 ranking, not the GOAT of LotV ranking.

Him being 2nd is fine for sure, the notion that he was extremely close to take 1st is kinda laughable though imo.

Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 23:31 Olli wrote:
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote:
Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.

He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.


I've lost count of how many things we're fanboys of that all contradict each other.


Don't worry about that, the community has the spreadsheet and images rdy.
Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later

For what it's worth, no writer put him #1, and there wasn't much of a debate about him being #1.

However, if Maru loses out of the Ro16/continues to show the form he did in GSL vs the World.. the story can change very quickly. That's where the 'close' comes from.
Writermaru pls
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 08 2018 17:01 GMT
#69
On August 09 2018 01:30 Soularion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 23:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On August 08 2018 23:35 Musicus wrote:
You guys remember that Serral did beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap and IEM Katowice to reach the semis earlier this year? It's not like this was the first time Serral played vs Koreans and did well.

#2 is perfectly fine after this performance. This is the August 2018 ranking, not the GOAT of LotV ranking.

Him being 2nd is fine for sure, the notion that he was extremely close to take 1st is kinda laughable though imo.

On August 08 2018 23:31 Olli wrote:
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote:
Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.

He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.


I've lost count of how many things we're fanboys of that all contradict each other.


Don't worry about that, the community has the spreadsheet and images rdy.
Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later

For what it's worth, no writer put him #1, and there wasn't much of a debate about him being #1.

However, if Maru loses out of the Ro16/continues to show the form he did in GSL vs the World.. the story can change very quickly. That's where the 'close' comes from.


I mean losing in the ro16 or even ro8 would be enough in my book to give serral the number 1 spot assuming he wins wcs. Losing in the ro4 or even gsl finals? For me personally that would not be enough, i guess for TL it would be though (though we can argue about it when/if it happens)

What do you mean with "form" exactly? Maru losing to stats and the bo1 vs serral or do you also look at the close match vs soO and evaluate that negatively for maru ?
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-08 17:20:49
August 08 2018 17:20 GMT
#70
I agree with this ranking if you look at achievements. If you look are pure skill though Serral has surpassed every Korean, including Maru.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55502 Posts
August 08 2018 17:29 GMT
#71
On August 09 2018 01:30 Soularion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 23:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On August 08 2018 23:35 Musicus wrote:
You guys remember that Serral did beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap and IEM Katowice to reach the semis earlier this year? It's not like this was the first time Serral played vs Koreans and did well.

#2 is perfectly fine after this performance. This is the August 2018 ranking, not the GOAT of LotV ranking.

Him being 2nd is fine for sure, the notion that he was extremely close to take 1st is kinda laughable though imo.

On August 08 2018 23:31 Olli wrote:
On August 08 2018 23:04 Rodya wrote:
Serral is ranked too high again, but at least you guys didn't put him at number one.

He wins a single tournament with Koreans in it (and the least serious korean tournament at that) and all of the sudden he's number 2... lol TL serral fanboy writers never fail to overhype him when given the chance to be the center of attention.


I've lost count of how many things we're fanboys of that all contradict each other.


Don't worry about that, the community has the spreadsheet and images rdy.
Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later

For what it's worth, no writer put him #1, and there wasn't much of a debate about him being #1.

However, if Maru loses out of the Ro16/continues to show the form he did in GSL vs the World.. the story can change very quickly. That's where the 'close' comes from.

At this point if Maru drops out of GSL in the Ro16 with his group you need to consider whether he's top 10 at all.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 08 2018 17:33 GMT
#72
On August 09 2018 02:20 MockHamill wrote:
I agree with this ranking if you look at achievements. If you look are pure skill though Serral has surpassed every Korean, including Maru.

How does this "pure skill" manifest itself in reality ?
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Z3nith
Profile Joined October 2017
485 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-08 17:45:05
August 08 2018 17:43 GMT
#73
Honestly, I kind of feel Classic is only going to slide lower and lower from here. There was a legitimate argument for him being called the best protoss at the start of the year but I personally feel that Stats has the better claim now. Plus now he's not even in the GSL ro16 he only has GSTL and Blizzcon to impress.
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
August 08 2018 18:01 GMT
#74
On August 09 2018 02:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2018 02:20 MockHamill wrote:
I agree with this ranking if you look at achievements. If you look are pure skill though Serral has surpassed every Korean, including Maru.

How does this "pure skill" manifest itself in reality ?


Micro, macro, multitasking and decision making. It is hard to quantify but if you look at the gameplay Serral is playing closer to perfect than any other SC2 player.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 08 2018 18:17 GMT
#75
On August 09 2018 03:01 MockHamill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2018 02:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On August 09 2018 02:20 MockHamill wrote:
I agree with this ranking if you look at achievements. If you look are pure skill though Serral has surpassed every Korean, including Maru.

How does this "pure skill" manifest itself in reality ?


Micro, macro, multitasking and decision making. It is hard to quantify but if you look at the gameplay Serral is playing closer to perfect than any other SC2 player.

Yeah he is great at all of those things, but "hard to quanitify" is the problem here i think
These absolute skill statements are imaginery if you do not quantify it. I would just stick with the actual results, he does great there :D
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-08 18:23:46
August 08 2018 18:23 GMT
#76
On August 09 2018 03:01 MockHamill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2018 02:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On August 09 2018 02:20 MockHamill wrote:
I agree with this ranking if you look at achievements. If you look are pure skill though Serral has surpassed every Korean, including Maru.

How does this "pure skill" manifest itself in reality ?


Micro, macro, multitasking and decision making. It is hard to quantify but if you look at the gameplay Serral is playing closer to perfect than any other SC2 player.

Not sure about this. Anyone looks perfect when they're outclassing their opponents, getting nothing but 3-0's etc. But when Serral is faced with actual challenges you see areas to improve. His matches against Scarlett, Maru, Classic, Has, and Stats certainly showed this.

Another example of this is Maru's WeSG runs. You couldn't find any flaws in his play when he's grinding 3-0 through every foreigner. But the finals against TY and Dark certainly showed some. Even though he was probably putting much more effort into them than the earlier matches.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
August 08 2018 19:00 GMT
#77
Specifically in the late game Serral doesn't look nearly as flawless, that's why I think Maru made a huge mistake by not playing at a slower pace in the bo1.
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
Kitai
Profile Joined June 2012
United States870 Posts
August 08 2018 20:57 GMT
#78
On August 09 2018 01:30 Soularion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2018 23:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later

For what it's worth, no writer put him #1, and there wasn't much of a debate about him being #1.


TaeJa is always #1 in my heart's PR.
"You know, I don't care if soO got 100 second places in a row. Anyone who doesn't think that he's going to win blizzcon watching this series is a fool" - Artosis, Blizzcon 2014 soO vs TaeJa
hexhaven
Profile Joined July 2014
Finland926 Posts
August 09 2018 00:18 GMT
#79
On August 09 2018 05:57 Kitai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2018 01:30 Soularion wrote:
On August 08 2018 23:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later

For what it's worth, no writer put him #1, and there wasn't much of a debate about him being #1.


TaeJa is always #1 in my heart's PR.


This dude knows what's up.
WriterI shoot events. | http://www.jussi.co/esports
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
August 09 2018 00:18 GMT
#80
On August 09 2018 05:57 Kitai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2018 01:30 Soularion wrote:
On August 08 2018 23:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later

For what it's worth, no writer put him #1, and there wasn't much of a debate about him being #1.


TaeJa is always #1 in my heart's PR.


Fruitdealer is #1 in mine.
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
RandomOnlyTheHumanLf
Profile Joined July 2018
58 Posts
August 09 2018 06:36 GMT
#81
Maru already interviewed before GSL vs the world that he didn't practice much for the tournaments.

If he practiced as he always does in GSL, I don't think he would be eliminated by Stats in ro4. Especially his tvp style highly depends on amounts of practice.
RandomOnlyTheHumanLf
Profile Joined July 2018
58 Posts
August 09 2018 07:01 GMT
#82
I kinda agree with this power rank. And about Serral, even tho Koreans didn't study or prepare for Serral much, he still simply outplayed many Koreans in this tournament with basic skills, which is still amazing part. And even it was just one tournament, I think it was enough for Serral to prove that he is already same level with top Koreans. I hear a lot of Koreans saying if Serral improves more and overcome his several weaknesses, he would be the undoubtful best zerg in future.
Koreans gonna be prepared in blizzcon and that will likely show Serral's real skills.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-09 07:55:47
August 09 2018 07:31 GMT
#83
The amount of bullshit and mind-numbing bias in this comment section is reaching new heights, never before known to men. Good thing Serral wasnt put on 1st, cuz a wave of brain-aneurysm would have wiped out half of TL s stable readership.

Stats lost these past 5 weeks to:
Serral - in the finals
Soo (twice)
Showtime
Rogue
Keen
Nice
Alive
Innovation- twice, once in the GSL
Trap

Serral lost:
literally nobody, not a single series dropped, online or offline, perfect record for like 3 months straight

But i concede, Stats should be 2nd, since he is korean and won a GSL a few seasons ago.
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-09 08:00:22
August 09 2018 07:59 GMT
#84
Serral also doesn't play nearly as many online tournaments (vs top Koreans) as Stats.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
August 09 2018 08:03 GMT
#85
On August 09 2018 16:59 Ej_ wrote:
Serral also doesn't play nearly as many online tournaments (vs top Koreans) as Stats.

Exactly, so we should count every tournament he didnt enter this year as forfeit losses, which would drop his winrate to something like 60%.
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
dummy1
Profile Blog Joined April 2018
420 Posts
August 09 2018 08:13 GMT
#86
@Geo.Rion Dude, what's your problem? You've just lost everything? Chill.
https://www.youtube.com/c/DepressingStarcraft <- Maru VODs and stuff | END REGION-LOCK NOW
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-09 10:37:13
August 09 2018 09:34 GMT
#87
On August 09 2018 17:13 dummy1 wrote:
@Geo.Rion Dude, what's your problem? You've just lost everything? Chill.

your comment makes no sense

edit: Oh, right, u re one of the people saying Stats over Serral in august. Good username.
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Dave4
Profile Joined August 2018
494 Posts
August 10 2018 21:06 GMT
#88
Hey folks, I gotta say I'm not a super Serral fanboy, and I seriously recognise and respect GSL as the top tier.

But Serral legit earned #1 right now. He has been equally dominant as Maru and then won the head to head, admittedly bo1 but if you can't split them and it comes to that surely you pick the winner.

Also Trap seems to be being kept at 9 for someone's random gimmick I don't think he is top 10 worthy atm. Soo and Inno both ahead of him easily.
serendipitous
Profile Joined November 2017
Canada195 Posts
August 10 2018 21:37 GMT
#89
On August 11 2018 06:06 Dave4 wrote:
Hey folks, I gotta say I'm not a super Serral fanboy, and I seriously recognise and respect GSL as the top tier.

But Serral legit earned #1 right now. He has been equally dominant as Maru and then won the head to head, admittedly bo1 but if you can't split them and it comes to that surely you pick the winner.

Also Trap seems to be being kept at 9 for someone's random gimmick I don't think he is top 10 worthy atm. Soo and Inno both ahead of him easily.


Maru: Wins 2 gsl's

Serral: Wins gsl vs the world and a single game against Maru

Serral hasn't shown nearly as much dominance in tournaments worthy of someone of his skill level, he looked incredible at GSL vs the World and is very clearly in the top few players but Maru is so far showing one of the most dominant years in Starcraft 2 history.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-10 21:46:42
August 10 2018 21:46 GMT
#90
On August 11 2018 06:06 Dave4 wrote:
But Serral legit earned #1 right now. He has been equally dominant as Maru and then won the head to head, admittedly bo1 but if you can't split them and it comes to that surely you pick the winner.

Equally dominant in a vastly inferior region?

It's shocking how much people downplay winning 2 GSLs since Serral won GSL vs TW. No one did that when Stats and herO won supertournaments, or when Rogue won IEM Shangai.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12769 Posts
August 10 2018 21:50 GMT
#91
Yeah winning 2 GSL in a row is super fucking impressive.

I don’t think any foreigner will be able to achieve that ever as long as GSL are the highest level tournament
WriterMaru
Dave4
Profile Joined August 2018
494 Posts
August 11 2018 09:10 GMT
#92
Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.

I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.

Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.

I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.
Dave4
Profile Joined August 2018
494 Posts
August 11 2018 09:20 GMT
#93
Also furthermore Maru has done this as the only pro gaming house left in Korea, with people monitoring his training and conditioning etc. While Serral has done it on his own.

So U can say it's one of the most dominant runs in SC2 from Maru but he is doing it in basically the most favourable era with a heavy advantage over everyone else so that probably waters it down a fair bit.
Z3nith
Profile Joined October 2017
485 Posts
August 11 2018 09:27 GMT
#94
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote:
Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.

I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.

Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.

I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.


Maru did something that hasn't been done since Nestea in his back to back GSLs. While, yes back to back to back is impressive for Serral it wasn't against the same calibre of opponent, just look at the runs to the finals from the ro16 onwards.

Maru:
GSL season 1: Dear, Gumiho, sOs, Dark, Stats
GSL season 2: Patience, Solar, Rogue, Classic, Zest

Serral:
Leipzig: Masa, Nerchio, Special, Showtime
Austin: Kelazhur, HeroMarine, Lambo, Mana
Valencia: Scarlett, Reynor, HeroMarine, Has

Just looking at the calibre of opponents, Maru's run was far more impressive. Even the weaker players in his runs were on par with a lot of the players that Serral played in his runs.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15897 Posts
August 11 2018 10:33 GMT
#95
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote:
Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.

I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.

Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.

I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.

You're overrating WCS wins. Every top 10 player would win every WCS in Serral's place.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12769 Posts
August 11 2018 10:50 GMT
#96
On August 11 2018 19:33 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote:
Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.

I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.

Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.

I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.

You're overrating WCS wins. Every top 10 player would win every WCS in Serral's place.

Top 10 no not at all lol.
Maybe top 5-6
WriterMaru
dummy1
Profile Blog Joined April 2018
420 Posts
August 11 2018 11:12 GMT
#97
On August 09 2018 18:34 Geo.Rion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2018 17:13 dummy1 wrote:
@Geo.Rion Dude, what's your problem? You've just lost everything? Chill.

your comment makes no sense

edit: Oh, right, u re one of the people saying Stats over Serral in august. Good username.

Bro, IT doesn't matter who's first. Make your own PR. Make you own list. IT doesn't matter now. It can't help to recover the scene and make it better. It's just important to keep in mind that who is who and what have they done to you and to the world.
https://www.youtube.com/c/DepressingStarcraft <- Maru VODs and stuff | END REGION-LOCK NOW
Dave4
Profile Joined August 2018
494 Posts
August 11 2018 11:53 GMT
#98
On August 11 2018 18:27 Z3nith wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote:
Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.

I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.

Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.

I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.


Maru did something that hasn't been done since Nestea in his back to back GSLs. While, yes back to back to back is impressive for Serral it wasn't against the same calibre of opponent, just look at the runs to the finals from the ro16 onwards.

Maru:
GSL season 1: Dear, Gumiho, sOs, Dark, Stats
GSL season 2: Patience, Solar, Rogue, Classic, Zest

Serral:
Leipzig: Masa, Nerchio, Special, Showtime
Austin: Kelazhur, HeroMarine, Lambo, Mana
Valencia: Scarlett, Reynor, HeroMarine, Has

Just looking at the calibre of opponents, Maru's run was far more impressive. Even the weaker players in his runs were on par with a lot of the players that Serral played in his runs.


Yeah you are also deliberately excluding his GSL win there I see to further your case... Basically they each have 1 GSL, then it's 1 GSL compared to three WCS. And that's ignoring the other titles he has won.

Anywho, I get it, GSL is the top and I know Korea has been where it's at for a long time and a new world order is going to rustle a few feathers along the way.

Point is until they play each other we will never know who is better.

Oh wait

User was warned for this post.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 11 2018 12:11 GMT
#99
On August 11 2018 20:53 Dave4 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2018 18:27 Z3nith wrote:
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote:
Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.

I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.

Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.

I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.


Maru did something that hasn't been done since Nestea in his back to back GSLs. While, yes back to back to back is impressive for Serral it wasn't against the same calibre of opponent, just look at the runs to the finals from the ro16 onwards.

Maru:
GSL season 1: Dear, Gumiho, sOs, Dark, Stats
GSL season 2: Patience, Solar, Rogue, Classic, Zest

Serral:
Leipzig: Masa, Nerchio, Special, Showtime
Austin: Kelazhur, HeroMarine, Lambo, Mana
Valencia: Scarlett, Reynor, HeroMarine, Has

Just looking at the calibre of opponents, Maru's run was far more impressive. Even the weaker players in his runs were on par with a lot of the players that Serral played in his runs.


Yeah you are also deliberately excluding his GSL win there I see to further your case... Basically they each have 1 GSL, then it's 1 GSL compared to three WCS. And that's ignoring the other titles he has won.

Anywho, I get it, GSL is the top and I know Korea has been where it's at for a long time and a new world order is going to rustle a few feathers along the way.

Point is until they play each other we will never know who is better.

Oh wait


I like how you say that they both have one gsl so it is just one gsl compared to the three wcs events. Yeah no because maru won gsl code s and not just a weekender gsl vs the world.
You cannot just 1:1 compare these two, with that being said i would definitely rank this "gsl win" higher than his wcs wins.
Maru also won WESG which is basically a harder WCS event (not by a lot, but still).

Personally i think it is almost laughable if you wanna add these things up and come to the conclusion that serral is ahead (or even really close), i think maru's achievements are easily more valuable this year so far. Serral's Gsl vs the world win is definitely making sure he catches up though and one also shouldn't forget that the tournament placings at the start of the year only can mean so much anymore for a PR now, so that could give serral additional fire here.
For the next PR it will really come down to this code s and how maru does there, serral will surely win the next wcs event because noone is close to his skill and he is actually favored to win a wcs event not only compared to anybody in the field but the whole field combined.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Z3nith
Profile Joined October 2017
485 Posts
August 11 2018 12:18 GMT
#100
On August 11 2018 20:53 Dave4 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2018 18:27 Z3nith wrote:
On August 11 2018 18:10 Dave4 wrote:
Like I said I get GSL is top but Serral won 4 tournaments back to back: 3 WCS and 1 GSL vs Maru 2 GSL only.

I think 3 back2back2back WCS is equally as difficult as a GSL, or harder as noone has done it before and statistically way more variation based on number of players.

Therefore they're at least even and Serral won the H2H convincingly.

I'm not a Serral fanboy but come on U can't just pass off 4 premiers in a row as nothing.


Maru did something that hasn't been done since Nestea in his back to back GSLs. While, yes back to back to back is impressive for Serral it wasn't against the same calibre of opponent, just look at the runs to the finals from the ro16 onwards.

Maru:
GSL season 1: Dear, Gumiho, sOs, Dark, Stats
GSL season 2: Patience, Solar, Rogue, Classic, Zest

Serral:
Leipzig: Masa, Nerchio, Special, Showtime
Austin: Kelazhur, HeroMarine, Lambo, Mana
Valencia: Scarlett, Reynor, HeroMarine, Has

Just looking at the calibre of opponents, Maru's run was far more impressive. Even the weaker players in his runs were on par with a lot of the players that Serral played in his runs.


Yeah you are also deliberately excluding his GSL win there I see to further your case... Basically they each have 1 GSL, then it's 1 GSL compared to three WCS. And that's ignoring the other titles he has won.

Anywho, I get it, GSL is the top and I know Korea has been where it's at for a long time and a new world order is going to rustle a few feathers along the way.

Point is until they play each other we will never know who is better.

Oh wait


Yes they have played each other. twice. As it stands Maru is 3-1 on map score.

You also can't really compare a GSL vs the World to a full blown GSL so no it's not 1 GSL to 3 WCS. GSL vs The World is more comparable to the Super Tournament but slightly weaker. As such when you factor in all that is said and done they are on comparable levels in terms of achievements in premier tournaments (2 GSLs, WESG for Maru and 3 WCS, GSL vs the World for Serral).

To be clear, their achievements this year are definitely comparable and I would certainly like to see Serral impress at Blizzcon, however, as it stands Maru does edge past him.
shadow111
Profile Joined August 2011
29 Posts
August 11 2018 12:45 GMT
#101
good ranking! i basically agree with all of it
tskarzyn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States516 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-11 20:05:09
August 11 2018 20:04 GMT
#102
If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.
11cc
Profile Joined May 2008
Finland561 Posts
August 12 2018 00:35 GMT
#103
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote:
If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.

Maybe there should be 2 trophies given for tournaments: one for the player that wins all the series, and one for the Korean who only lost because he underestimated the opponent and didn't bother to prepare but is still the better player and the real champion.
tskarzyn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States516 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-12 02:17:00
August 12 2018 02:16 GMT
#104
On August 12 2018 09:35 11cc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote:
If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.

Maybe there should be 2 trophies given for tournaments: one for the player that wins all the series, and one for the Korean who only lost because he underestimated the opponent and didn't bother to prepare but is still the better player and the real champion.


Yes, maybe! Or maybe, just maybe, we can acknowledge someone played well a tournament but hold off on calling them the best player in the world until they show consistent success at the highest level. When Neeb won the Kespa cup, he 4-0'd a group with Rogue, Byun, and Zest and proceeded to crush both Stats and Trap. Lightning did not strike twice for Neeb, and I think history would suggest it won't for Serral either.
Philozovic
Profile Joined August 2012
France1676 Posts
August 12 2018 08:02 GMT
#105
On August 09 2018 09:18 Fanatic-Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2018 05:57 Kitai wrote:
On August 09 2018 01:30 Soularion wrote:
On August 08 2018 23:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Now that Taeja's military service is over i expect him on the PR sooner than later

For what it's worth, no writer put him #1, and there wasn't much of a debate about him being #1.


TaeJa is always #1 in my heart's PR.


Fruitdealer is #1 in mine.


A jamais premier
INnoVation is the absolute best | I wept for i knew his words to be true
Soularion
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Canada2764 Posts
August 12 2018 09:39 GMT
#106
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote:
If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.

How many foreign zergs have won a tournament on the scale of GSL vs the World?

Hint : The only answer is Stephano at NASL3, where he only played one matchup (ZvP). And even then, if you're trying to make the argument that he 'came crashing back to earth' afterwards (especially if you just look at that matchup), well, you're in an uphill battle.
Writermaru pls
tskarzyn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States516 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-12 12:57:07
August 12 2018 12:54 GMT
#107
On August 12 2018 18:39 Soularion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote:
If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.

How many foreign zergs have won a tournament on the scale of GSL vs the World?

Hint : The only answer is Stephano at NASL3, where he only played one matchup (ZvP). And even then, if you're trying to make the argument that he 'came crashing back to earth' afterwards (especially if you just look at that matchup), well, you're in an uphill battle.


I just mentioned the example of Neeb, who took out multiple top-tier Koreans in the Kespa Cup including a 7-1 run against Stats and Trap. Yes, what Serral did hasn't happened often, but foreign zergs have a history of doing well vs. koreans in the short-term and eventually being figured out.

I'm not saying Serral can't have future success vs. the Koreans. I'm just saying that we should temper our expectations since we have a sample size of one tournament. For a site like Teamliquid that likes to play the hyper-rational geek squad, I'm surprised I have to say this.
VengefulTree
Profile Joined May 2014
Canada637 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-12 15:26:46
August 12 2018 15:25 GMT
#108
How can anyone even consider putting Stats over Serral for any reason other than anti-foreigner bias
"I'll temper my comments the best I can. To have Stats ranked anything below 2nd is total absolute bullcrap! A travesty an abomination!" - Rolltide | "When a foreign Terran is about to win, the entire universe conspires against him" - Paulo Coelho
Soularion
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Canada2764 Posts
August 12 2018 15:38 GMT
#109
On August 12 2018 21:54 tskarzyn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2018 18:39 Soularion wrote:
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote:
If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.

How many foreign zergs have won a tournament on the scale of GSL vs the World?

Hint : The only answer is Stephano at NASL3, where he only played one matchup (ZvP). And even then, if you're trying to make the argument that he 'came crashing back to earth' afterwards (especially if you just look at that matchup), well, you're in an uphill battle.


I just mentioned the example of Neeb, who took out multiple top-tier Koreans in the Kespa Cup including a 7-1 run against Stats and Trap. Yes, what Serral did hasn't happened often, but foreign zergs have a history of doing well vs. koreans in the short-term and eventually being figured out.

I'm not saying Serral can't have future success vs. the Koreans. I'm just saying that we should temper our expectations since we have a sample size of one tournament. For a site like Teamliquid that likes to play the hyper-rational geek squad, I'm surprised I have to say this.

Neeb's not a foreign zerg, and we don't have a sample size of one tournament; we know Serral from his IEM run (where he beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap), from his WESG run (where he beat Classic and dominated foreigners) and from putting up historic numbers vs foreigners.

He's a damn good player and it's incredibly hard to argue anyone else over him for #2 considering nobody else has as unimpeachable of a resume.
Writermaru pls
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-12 16:32:28
August 12 2018 16:28 GMT
#110
On August 13 2018 00:38 Soularion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2018 21:54 tskarzyn wrote:
On August 12 2018 18:39 Soularion wrote:
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote:
If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue.

How many foreign zergs have won a tournament on the scale of GSL vs the World?

Hint : The only answer is Stephano at NASL3, where he only played one matchup (ZvP). And even then, if you're trying to make the argument that he 'came crashing back to earth' afterwards (especially if you just look at that matchup), well, you're in an uphill battle.


I just mentioned the example of Neeb, who took out multiple top-tier Koreans in the Kespa Cup including a 7-1 run against Stats and Trap. Yes, what Serral did hasn't happened often, but foreign zergs have a history of doing well vs. koreans in the short-term and eventually being figured out.

I'm not saying Serral can't have future success vs. the Koreans. I'm just saying that we should temper our expectations since we have a sample size of one tournament. For a site like Teamliquid that likes to play the hyper-rational geek squad, I'm surprised I have to say this.

Neeb's not a foreign zerg, and we don't have a sample size of one tournament; we know Serral from his IEM run (where he beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap), from his WESG run (where he beat Classic and dominated foreigners) and from putting up historic numbers vs foreigners.

He's a damn good player and it's incredibly hard to argue anyone else over him for #2 considering nobody else has as unimpeachable of a resume.

You could make the argument for Stats. He won supertournament and made the finals of both GSL S1 and GSL vs TW. If you compare the number of top players they've both beat Stats is probably in the lead. Maybe Dark as well.

Serral beating Classic and Trap earlier in the year is impressive but it's not like Stats didn't do that and much more. Serral has an insane winrate but he hasn't actually played as many series against top tier opponents.

I'm not saying Stats or Dark deserve the #2 spot necessarily, but the arguments are there.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
tilhorizon
Profile Joined September 2008
Germany191 Posts
August 13 2018 01:43 GMT
#111
No "Close but No Cigar" for Showtime ?
He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1
Rodya
Profile Joined January 2018
546 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-13 02:10:57
August 13 2018 02:10 GMT
#112
On August 13 2018 00:25 VengefulTree wrote:
How can anyone even consider putting Stats over Serral for any reason other than anti-foreigner bias

Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it.

Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still.
Banned for saying "zerg players are by far the biggest whiners in sc2 history" despite the fact that this forum is full of such posts about Terrans. Foreigner Elitists in control!
Dave4
Profile Joined August 2018
494 Posts
August 13 2018 07:00 GMT
#113
On August 13 2018 11:10 Rodya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2018 00:25 VengefulTree wrote:
How can anyone even consider putting Stats over Serral for any reason other than anti-foreigner bias

Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it.

Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still.


Well the Korran bias is clearly strong. Serral 10-14 lol. Youd be putting multiple players who haven't even been to a semifinal this whole year ahead of him in order to make that assertion. Let alone that this ranking is supposed to be weighted based on the month of July and maybe a few months shortly before that.

Nonsense
neutralrobot
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia1025 Posts
August 13 2018 08:16 GMT
#114
On August 13 2018 10:43 tilhorizon wrote:
No "Close but No Cigar" for Showtime ?
He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1


They need a "close but no 'close but no cigar'" category. The fact that they haven't done that shows clear bias in whatever direction makes people angriest at the moment.
Maru | Life | PartinG || I guess I like aggressive control freaks... || Reynor will one day reign supreme || *reyn supreme
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
August 13 2018 08:18 GMT
#115
On August 13 2018 17:16 neutralrobot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2018 10:43 tilhorizon wrote:
No "Close but No Cigar" for Showtime ?
He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1


They need a "close but no 'close but no cigar'" category. The fact that they haven't done that shows clear bias in whatever direction makes people angriest at the moment.


Added to the list of things we're biased for/against!
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12769 Posts
August 13 2018 08:46 GMT
#116
On August 13 2018 11:10 Rodya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2018 00:25 VengefulTree wrote:
How can anyone even consider putting Stats over Serral for any reason other than anti-foreigner bias

Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it.

Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still.

Yeah sure, 27k $ for the first place is a fun vacation tournament when there are as few tournaments in Korea as there are now.

Don't remember if I said it already in this thread but the power rank seems very accurate, I agree with a lot of it.
WriterMaru
Philozovic
Profile Joined August 2012
France1676 Posts
August 13 2018 10:02 GMT
#117
On August 13 2018 11:10 Rodya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2018 00:25 VengefulTree wrote:
How can anyone even consider putting Stats over Serral for any reason other than anti-foreigner bias

Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it.

Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still.


Ok so Stats winning a 3 days tournament 4 months ago with 11K on the line after beating Byun (2 Ro32 Ro8 of GSL), Solar (2 Ro32, 1 Ro16), herO (1Ro16, 1 no qualify, 1 Ro16+) and Dark (1Ro16, 1 Ro4 and 1 Ro16+) is impressive

But Serral winning a 3 days tournament with 27K on the line after beating Inno (2 Ro16, 1 Ro16+), Dark and Stats is a fun tournament


What about IEM world ? you know when Serral lost to souL in the qualifier while Stats qualify and beat : TRUE, Rogue, Impact, Zest, Neeb, Nerchio Trap. Oh wait that was the other way around

Serral not top 10 ? I should not even reply lol
INnoVation is the absolute best | I wept for i knew his words to be true
neutralrobot
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia1025 Posts
August 13 2018 12:29 GMT
#118
On August 13 2018 17:18 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2018 17:16 neutralrobot wrote:
On August 13 2018 10:43 tilhorizon wrote:
No "Close but No Cigar" for Showtime ?
He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1


They need a "close but no 'close but no cigar'" category. The fact that they haven't done that shows clear bias in whatever direction makes people angriest at the moment.


Added to the list of things we're biased for/against!


You should power rank the TL bias accusations.
Maru | Life | PartinG || I guess I like aggressive control freaks... || Reynor will one day reign supreme || *reyn supreme
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
August 13 2018 12:36 GMT
#119
Serral is good, like a top tier Korean. It makes Blizzcon more fun, there is an actual solid looking foreign hope this time who showed he can deliver.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
August 13 2018 13:12 GMT
#120
On August 13 2018 21:29 neutralrobot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2018 17:18 Olli wrote:
On August 13 2018 17:16 neutralrobot wrote:
On August 13 2018 10:43 tilhorizon wrote:
No "Close but No Cigar" for Showtime ?
He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1


They need a "close but no 'close but no cigar'" category. The fact that they haven't done that shows clear bias in whatever direction makes people angriest at the moment.


Added to the list of things we're biased for/against!


You should power rank the TL bias accusations.


That would be boring, Liquid bias is guaranteed #1
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
swarminfestor
Profile Joined September 2017
Malaysia2429 Posts
August 15 2018 13:13 GMT
#121
I think Neeb should be on the list for the next Power Rank.
Rogue & Maru fan boy. ^^
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
August 15 2018 13:14 GMT
#122
On August 15 2018 22:13 swarminfestor wrote:
I think Neeb should be on the list for the next Power Rank.


Agreed. Guy is in the friggin' ro8 of GSL weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
TL+ Member
StabiloBoss20
Profile Joined July 2015
313 Posts
August 15 2018 16:59 GMT
#123
On August 15 2018 22:14 ReachTheSky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2018 22:13 swarminfestor wrote:
I think Neeb should be on the list for the next Power Rank.


Agreed. Guy is in the friggin' ro8 of GSL weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


you can put him there. but with beating alive, losira, impact and reynor its not like you have to.
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