EPTPower Rank: August 2018 - Page 6
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shadow111
29 Posts
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
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11cc
Finland561 Posts
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote: If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue. Maybe there should be 2 trophies given for tournaments: one for the player that wins all the series, and one for the Korean who only lost because he underestimated the opponent and didn't bother to prepare but is still the better player and the real champion. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
On August 12 2018 09:35 11cc wrote: Maybe there should be 2 trophies given for tournaments: one for the player that wins all the series, and one for the Korean who only lost because he underestimated the opponent and didn't bother to prepare but is still the better player and the real champion. Yes, maybe! Or maybe, just maybe, we can acknowledge someone played well a tournament but hold off on calling them the best player in the world until they show consistent success at the highest level. When Neeb won the Kespa cup, he 4-0'd a group with Rogue, Byun, and Zest and proceeded to crush both Stats and Trap. Lightning did not strike twice for Neeb, and I think history would suggest it won't for Serral either. | ||
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Philozovic
France1677 Posts
A jamais premier | ||
Soularion
Canada2764 Posts
On August 12 2018 05:04 tskarzyn wrote: If Serral is #2 after one Korean tournament, why not put Reynor ahead of Classic after he crushed him and got out of his group? As with Reynor, I think we all know that part of Serral's success in GSL vs World was the fact that the Koreans had little experience playing against him. We've seen so many foreign zergs touch the sun only to come crashing back to earth after the Koreans learned their play style, and Serral's true test will come in future Korean tournaments when his opponents know his play and have studied him as much as they study sOo, Dark, and Rogue. How many foreign zergs have won a tournament on the scale of GSL vs the World? Hint : The only answer is Stephano at NASL3, where he only played one matchup (ZvP). And even then, if you're trying to make the argument that he 'came crashing back to earth' afterwards (especially if you just look at that matchup), well, you're in an uphill battle. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
On August 12 2018 18:39 Soularion wrote: How many foreign zergs have won a tournament on the scale of GSL vs the World? Hint : The only answer is Stephano at NASL3, where he only played one matchup (ZvP). And even then, if you're trying to make the argument that he 'came crashing back to earth' afterwards (especially if you just look at that matchup), well, you're in an uphill battle. I just mentioned the example of Neeb, who took out multiple top-tier Koreans in the Kespa Cup including a 7-1 run against Stats and Trap. Yes, what Serral did hasn't happened often, but foreign zergs have a history of doing well vs. koreans in the short-term and eventually being figured out. I'm not saying Serral can't have future success vs. the Koreans. I'm just saying that we should temper our expectations since we have a sample size of one tournament. For a site like Teamliquid that likes to play the hyper-rational geek squad, I'm surprised I have to say this. | ||
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VengefulTree
Canada637 Posts
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Soularion
Canada2764 Posts
On August 12 2018 21:54 tskarzyn wrote: I just mentioned the example of Neeb, who took out multiple top-tier Koreans in the Kespa Cup including a 7-1 run against Stats and Trap. Yes, what Serral did hasn't happened often, but foreign zergs have a history of doing well vs. koreans in the short-term and eventually being figured out. I'm not saying Serral can't have future success vs. the Koreans. I'm just saying that we should temper our expectations since we have a sample size of one tournament. For a site like Teamliquid that likes to play the hyper-rational geek squad, I'm surprised I have to say this. Neeb's not a foreign zerg, and we don't have a sample size of one tournament; we know Serral from his IEM run (where he beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap), from his WESG run (where he beat Classic and dominated foreigners) and from putting up historic numbers vs foreigners. He's a damn good player and it's incredibly hard to argue anyone else over him for #2 considering nobody else has as unimpeachable of a resume. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 13 2018 00:38 Soularion wrote: Neeb's not a foreign zerg, and we don't have a sample size of one tournament; we know Serral from his IEM run (where he beat Rogue, Impact, Zest and Trap), from his WESG run (where he beat Classic and dominated foreigners) and from putting up historic numbers vs foreigners. He's a damn good player and it's incredibly hard to argue anyone else over him for #2 considering nobody else has as unimpeachable of a resume. You could make the argument for Stats. He won supertournament and made the finals of both GSL S1 and GSL vs TW. If you compare the number of top players they've both beat Stats is probably in the lead. Maybe Dark as well. Serral beating Classic and Trap earlier in the year is impressive but it's not like Stats didn't do that and much more. Serral has an insane winrate but he hasn't actually played as many series against top tier opponents. I'm not saying Stats or Dark deserve the #2 spot necessarily, but the arguments are there. | ||
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tilhorizon
Germany191 Posts
He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1 | ||
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Rodya
546 Posts
On August 13 2018 00:25 VengefulTree wrote: How can anyone even consider putting Stats over Serral for any reason other than anti-foreigner bias Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it. Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still. | ||
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Dave4
494 Posts
On August 13 2018 11:10 Rodya wrote: Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it. Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still. Well the Korran bias is clearly strong. Serral 10-14 lol. Youd be putting multiple players who haven't even been to a semifinal this whole year ahead of him in order to make that assertion. Let alone that this ranking is supposed to be weighted based on the month of July and maybe a few months shortly before that. Nonsense | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On August 13 2018 10:43 tilhorizon wrote: No "Close but No Cigar" for Showtime ? He recently did beat Stats 3:0 Innovation 3:0 and Zest 3:1 They need a "close but no 'close but no cigar'" category. The fact that they haven't done that shows clear bias in whatever direction makes people angriest at the moment. | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On August 13 2018 17:16 neutralrobot wrote: They need a "close but no 'close but no cigar'" category. The fact that they haven't done that shows clear bias in whatever direction makes people angriest at the moment. Added to the list of things we're biased for/against! | ||
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Poopi
France13022 Posts
On August 13 2018 11:10 Rodya wrote: Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it. Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still. Yeah sure, 27k $ for the first place is a fun vacation tournament when there are as few tournaments in Korea as there are now. Don't remember if I said it already in this thread but the power rank seems very accurate, I agree with a lot of it. | ||
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Philozovic
France1677 Posts
On August 13 2018 11:10 Rodya wrote: Easy. Serral has had one tournament that he performed well in that had Koreans in it. Stats has had many of recent memory. He made a GSL finals this year after all and won a supertournament. Serral won a weekend for fun vacation tournament. Congrats to him - but it is nothing compared to GSL. Serral is rank 10-14 in my book still. Ok so Stats winning a 3 days tournament 4 months ago with 11K on the line after beating Byun (2 Ro32 Ro8 of GSL), Solar (2 Ro32, 1 Ro16), herO (1Ro16, 1 no qualify, 1 Ro16+) and Dark (1Ro16, 1 Ro4 and 1 Ro16+) is impressive But Serral winning a 3 days tournament with 27K on the line after beating Inno (2 Ro16, 1 Ro16+), Dark and Stats is a fun tournament What about IEM world ? you know when Serral lost to souL in the qualifier while Stats qualify and beat : TRUE, Rogue, Impact, Zest, Neeb, Nerchio Trap. Oh wait that was the other way around Serral not top 10 ? I should not even reply lol | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On August 13 2018 17:18 Olli wrote: Added to the list of things we're biased for/against! You should power rank the TL bias accusations. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On August 13 2018 21:29 neutralrobot wrote: You should power rank the TL bias accusations. That would be boring, Liquid bias is guaranteed #1 | ||
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