EPTThe gap has closed between foreigners and Korea - Page 9
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rasi86
44 Posts
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Gallean
United States4 Posts
On August 18 2019 07:55 rasi86 wrote: The gap hasnt closed for all though. only for Z players since Z is way too strong in all MUs Yeah I have to agree with you, Elazer won vs Dark 3-2 (even though elazer threw 2 games he lost) because zerg is OP in ZvZ. TIME won vs SoO 3-0 because zerg is so strong it was too much to soO to handle and he couldn't control all the OPiness. Neeb 3-1ed Stats, who is considered the best protoss in korea because zerg is OP. It's absurdly clear that gap only seems closing because zerg is OP now, and not because it's actually closing. | ||
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Brutaxilos
United States2624 Posts
On August 18 2019 03:50 KalWarkov wrote: let's be real: while players like neeb, reynor, special, time, showtime can certainly compete, they are still the underdogs vs the top koreans. it's still just serral being dominant. after him and around him, there is all korean competition. there certainly is still a minor gap between foreigners and koreans overall - and the KR server is still slightly stronger than the EU server. The gap is minor though nowadays. Very positive the difference between NA GM and EU GM is larger. I don't feel like this is a meaningful point, because while medium level foreigners can't beat top Koreans, medium level Koreans also can't beat top foreigners. We often times forget that the players getting the most screwed by the region lock are the Koreans who aren't winning tournaments, and are also now locked out of half the tournaments in the year. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On August 18 2019 05:39 Anc13nt wrote: I agree. Gap is smaller but I think some people are trying to use this tournament to push narratives (whether it be death of Korean scene or EU>=KR). imo, they both have a decent point but at the end of the day, top 10 players is still Serral and 9 Koreans (occasionally there may be 2 foreigners in top 10). Koreans are not as strong as before but they are still a cut above the other countries in terms of player's skill. Just because Neeb beats Stats now doesn't erase the fact that he was 0-7 against him in recent matches before this one. Dark was 6-3 against Elazer before this series. Upsets do happen. In fact, I recall GSL Season 2 being upsets galore. People shouldn't also use IEM Katowice to make us believe that alone mirror the truth regarding the balance of power between korean and foreigners, but they do. Never before in the history of Starcraft foreigners outperformed koreans that hard in a Premier tournament, the gap seemed to exist backwards this weekend. However, I agree that koreans are stronger and that the majority of top players are from GSL(I wouldn't say 9/10 plus Serral, more like 7). I'm not sure Korean Zerg are still stronger than their european counterparts, undoubtly they aren't in the mirror matchup and the best Zerg is not from Korea. I expect to see koreans performing better next BlizzCon, but foreign players are now legit and the creation of global scene could be a good thing; it would need to be heavily redesigned, in any of case. | ||
Waxangel
United States33356 Posts
On August 18 2019 02:54 xelnaga_empire wrote: Sorry to necro this thread, but after the performance of the foreigners in GSL vs the World, I think this subject deserves discussion again. I think the best in the foreign scene may have caught up to the best in the Korean scene by this tournament. Wow, falling into the seductive trap of overblowing the significance of the most recent result when it supports your opinion  It's too bad Charisaur didn't make a thread called "the gap is as large as ever" and necro it after ASUS ROG. Then we'd have some inter-forum meta comedy on our hands. | ||
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
User was warned for this post. | ||
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parksonsc
175 Posts
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria818 Posts
- KeSPA abandoned StarCraft scene - Korean pro teams disbanded - region lock / less tournaments for Koreans Over time effects of these are beginning to show. When you weaken something, it doesn't mean "the gap has closed". It means level has gone down. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On August 18 2019 16:32 SC-Shield wrote: The gap hasn't closed. It's a consequence of events: - KeSPA abandoned StarCraft scene - Korean pro teams disbanded - region lock / less tournaments for Koreans Over time effects of these are beginning to show. When you weaken something, it doesn't mean "the gap has closed". It means level has gone down. The gap was always due to the Korean infrastructure advantage, it makes sense that foreigners start to beat Koreans 2-3 years after that infrastructure disappears. Sort of the opposite from LoL where the rest of the world adopted team houses and coaches and eventually caught up to Korean results. | ||
Poopi
France12792 Posts
On August 18 2019 11:42 RealityTheGreat wrote: Closed by infestor As in 2012  | ||
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
On August 18 2019 16:32 SC-Shield wrote: The gap hasn't closed. It's a consequence of events: - KeSPA abandoned StarCraft scene - Korean pro teams disbanded - region lock / less tournaments for Koreans Over time effects of these are beginning to show. When you weaken something, it doesn't mean "the gap has closed". It means level has gone down. What? The level going down is what causes the gap to close lol... | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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TrashEconomy
25 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25078 Posts
On August 19 2019 01:11 TrashEconomy wrote: I think most level heads would say there's been a decline of skill more than there's been a real closing of the gap that was originally hoped for. Foreigners have got better at the game with region lock, just watching the games and the level of play. The gap has gradually closed, it used to be seen as something to cheer if a foreigner beat basically any Korean, even the C rank guys or the occasional B teamer, with the occasional outlier like Stephano. I wouldn’t dispute a decline, equally in a separate timeline I don’t think today’s good foreigners would struggle to that degree. Another factor is that foreigners rarely play in tournaments against the same tier of Korean as used to be the case. If it’s an international tournament it’s a mixed set of foreigners ability wise, plus usually S tier Koreans. It would probably illustrate more starkly how the gap has closed if we did see foreigners playing Code A/fringe Code S Ro32 players more often. Granted post-military but Bomber and Taeja got smacked at ASUS ROG recently. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
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vyzion
308 Posts
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Phattyasmo
United States68 Posts
If Europeans can keep solid, consistent records, then maybe you can begin to argue your point about "The Gap," but one tournament result is not how to go about claiming this. | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
On August 18 2019 07:55 rasi86 wrote: The gap hasnt closed for all though. only for Z players since Z is way too strong in all MUs that's such an irrational comment dood. "it has only closed for Z players cuz Z is imba" well shouldn't korea be dominated by zerg players as well if its a race issue? | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
On August 19 2019 03:07 Phattyasmo wrote: Yeah, not really. Serral and Elazer made it to the finals, cool. That doesn't mean anything (maybe some are having a bad tournie, maybe Elazer is really on point right now, etc.). Don't forget all the times Koreans have previously wrecked foreigners in tournaments. Serral is very good, yes, but so are many Koreans, and last I checked, there are more good Koreans than one Serral. If Europeans can keep solid, consistent records, then maybe you can begin to argue your point about "The Gap," but one tournament result is not how to go about claiming this. Neeb beat Stats. Special almost beat Classic. The 2 best Protoss in the world. Time 3-0d soO, who was then beaten by Elazer - who himself beat Dark. 1 result? what? And it's not only this tournament. top end koreans lost quite a few series against top foreigners in the past year. Also, Serral consistantly wins touranments with koreans in them. he's won like 4/7 events with high level korean participation. not 1 single korean has won 2 of those events. he's clearly the best. yes, the next 5-6 players are koreans - but the top 30 of all players has about 10-12 foreigners in it. in the old times, it was 28-29 koreans. | ||
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