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Damn Showtime beat Zest. This went exactly how I thought it would except for that one match
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Its going to be hard for Serral
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EU is holding. 
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3 foreigners in the ro8, conclusive proof that the gap has closed.
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On August 03 2018 22:43 DBooN wrote:
3 foreigners in the ro8, conclusive proof that the gap has closed.
bracket luck!
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On August 03 2018 22:43 DBooN wrote:
3 foreigners in the ro8, conclusive proof that the gap has closed.
Two foreigners were guaranteed to make it to the ro8.
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The gap has vastly decreased. Two years ago, the top 20 Koreans would be favorites to beat the #1 foreigner. Now I would say the top 4 or 6 Koreans are favored over Serral, but I think he's got a shot at beating any of them except a Maru that specifically prepares for the match.
So is there a gap? Yes, but Serral is just on the Korean side of it. Special (and obviously Showtime) will lose their next match and Serral will be the foreign hope.
And with all that said... Go Maru!
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On August 03 2018 23:14 Lysergic1 wrote:
The gap has vastly decreased. Two years ago, the top 20 Koreans would be favorites to beat the #1 foreigner.
Two years ago Nerchio was like the second or third best zerg in the world
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On August 03 2018 23:14 Lysergic1 wrote:
The gap has vastly decreased. Two years ago, the top 20 Koreans would be favorites to beat the #1 foreigner. Now I would say the top 4 or 6 Koreans are favored over Serral, but I think he's got a shot at beating any of them except a Maru that specifically prepares for the match.
So is there a gap? Yes, but Serral is just on the Korean side of it. Special (and obviously Showtime) will lose their next match and Serral will be the foreign hope.
And with all that said... Go Maru!
But Serral is way ahead from other foreigners, he is the anomaly, very very good foreigner aren't the norm.
In their time, Stephano or Nerchio or even Naniwa were considered top world (not first but at least top 3 of their race).
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France12911 Posts
Nerchio in the same sentence as Stephano / Naniwa, are you all going crazy?
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Well, eh, lol.
That's all that can be said to the people that hyped the yesterday's results. Korean are still better, what a surprise!
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On August 03 2018 23:34 Poopi wrote:
Nerchio in the same sentence as Stephano / Naniwa, are you all going crazy?
sorry  for nerchio it didn't last nearly as long as the two others but he was amongst the very best of this game, so nothing new here
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On August 03 2018 23:46 Mun_Su wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 23:34 Poopi wrote:
Nerchio in the same sentence as Stephano / Naniwa, are you all going crazy? sorry for nerchio it didn't last nearly as long as the two others but he was amongst the very best of this game, so nothing new here
nerchio dominated early LOTV almost as hard as neeb and serral for a while, but i think a lot of people didn't give him credit because he was very strong in the new meta and started to regress as the game got more figured out/more patches hit
anyway, besides that, scarlett was so close, insanely close. if anyone didn't see the games then trust me, there were multiple points where it looked like she was literally about to win the series and classic just stone cold held. if you're a scarlett fan looking forward to the games, she looked good, but the way she lost is going to break your heart
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Serral is not the best foreigner of all time. All of his achievements are versus foreigners. Scarlett's career is more impressive than Serrals'.
Maru 3 - 0 Showtime
Stats 3 - 0 Special
Serral 0 - 3 Innovation
Classic 3 - 2 Dark
Admittedly Dark is favorite to beat Classic but I want to believe in Classic. Also Innovation vs Classic will be more interesting than Innovation vs Dark imo.
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France12911 Posts
On August 03 2018 23:49 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 23:46 Mun_Su wrote:On August 03 2018 23:34 Poopi wrote:
Nerchio in the same sentence as Stephano / Naniwa, are you all going crazy? sorry for nerchio it didn't last nearly as long as the two others but he was amongst the very best of this game, so nothing new here nerchio dominated early LOTV almost as hard as neeb and serral for a while, but i think a lot of people didn't give him credit because he was very strong in the new meta and started to regress as the game got more figured out/more patches hit anyway, besides that, scarlett was so close, insanely close. if anyone didn't see the games then trust me, there were multiple points where it looked like she was literally about to win the series and classic just stone cold held. if you're a scarlett fan looking forward to the games, she looked good, but the way she lost is going to break your heart
I don't know much about PvZ but did she look that good or Classic looked that bad to make it so close?
I guess we'll find out with Dark against Classic how well Scarlett actually performed.
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On August 04 2018 00:02 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 23:49 brickrd wrote:On August 03 2018 23:46 Mun_Su wrote:On August 03 2018 23:34 Poopi wrote:
Nerchio in the same sentence as Stephano / Naniwa, are you all going crazy? sorry for nerchio it didn't last nearly as long as the two others but he was amongst the very best of this game, so nothing new here nerchio dominated early LOTV almost as hard as neeb and serral for a while, but i think a lot of people didn't give him credit because he was very strong in the new meta and started to regress as the game got more figured out/more patches hit anyway, besides that, scarlett was so close, insanely close. if anyone didn't see the games then trust me, there were multiple points where it looked like she was literally about to win the series and classic just stone cold held. if you're a scarlett fan looking forward to the games, she looked good, but the way she lost is going to break your heart I don't know much about PvZ but did she look that good or Classic looked that bad to make it so close?
Well each of them basically got a build order win. It was a 2-1 for Classic in the "regular" games.
The other game Scarlett won Classic was actually ahead then had his entire army out of position and lost it to a surround. In game 5 Scarlett was so close to winning as well but didn't manage the situation well and ended up losing.
I'd say they both played a bit shaky, good in some areas, not good in others. Classic's micro was notably not great.
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On August 03 2018 23:53 Rodya wrote:
Serral is not the best foreigner of all time. All of his achievements are versus foreigners. Scarlett's career is more impressive than Serrals'.
Maru 3 - 0 Showtime
Stats 3 - 0 Special
Serral 0 - 3 Innovation
Classic 3 - 2 Dark
Admittedly Dark is favorite to beat Classic but I want to believe in Classic. Also Innovation vs Classic will be more interesting than Innovation vs Dark imo.
i mean, scarlett's only major achievement against koreans i can think of is beating sOs 4-1. yeah, her career is more impressive, but that's because she's been playing a professional level longer than serral has. she was already making waves in foreign starcraft before anyone cared about serral, who is also 4 years younger than her
On August 04 2018 00:02 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 23:49 brickrd wrote:On August 03 2018 23:46 Mun_Su wrote:On August 03 2018 23:34 Poopi wrote:
Nerchio in the same sentence as Stephano / Naniwa, are you all going crazy? sorry for nerchio it didn't last nearly as long as the two others but he was amongst the very best of this game, so nothing new here nerchio dominated early LOTV almost as hard as neeb and serral for a while, but i think a lot of people didn't give him credit because he was very strong in the new meta and started to regress as the game got more figured out/more patches hit anyway, besides that, scarlett was so close, insanely close. if anyone didn't see the games then trust me, there were multiple points where it looked like she was literally about to win the series and classic just stone cold held. if you're a scarlett fan looking forward to the games, she looked good, but the way she lost is going to break your heart I don't know much about PvZ but did she look that good or Classic looked that bad to make it so close? I guess we'll find out with Dark against Classic how well Scarlett actually performed.
i think she looked good with the aggressive style, which to my knowledge is typically her strength in ZvP when she's taking out koreans. she creates aggressive early situations, takes strong trades with good micro, and then either allins or goes into weird tech switches like muta to maintain an advantage until she can close the game out. i'm not sure what her ZvP vs koreans would look like in an 80 drone macro game against immortal chargelot archon storm, but if she can keep winning fights playing her kind of game i don't think that's invalid. MC was another player who created a lot of success against koreans by dictating the game aggressively.
she really needs mint execution to do it though. classic definitely showed how a calm defense and smart micro can take a lot of the air out of strong zerg aggression
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Big challenge for Serral he has to prove he can beat top Koreans. Inno is the first step...
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On August 04 2018 00:17 MajiN1 wrote:
Big challenge for Serral he has to prove he can beat top Koreans. Inno is the first step...
I want Innovation to win because I want to know that top Koreans still slam down even the best non-Koreans. I want Serral to win because it makes the tournament more intense and makes for a better story line.
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On August 03 2018 23:14 Lysergic1 wrote:
The gap has vastly decreased. Two years ago, the top 20 Koreans would be favorites to beat the #1 foreigner.
That's... not really true. Almost exactly 2 years ago is when Neeb won his 2016 KeSPA cup. After that, he followed up with 2 more back-to-back premier tournament wins in early 2017. I don't think it's fair to say the top 20 Koreans would have been favored over him in that time period.
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Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
Regarding the gap, there have been several kinds of gaps imho:
1) the gap in mechanics - it's more on the individual level, and Serral for example is on the same level as most koreans
2) the gap in experience - with the actual WCS system, more foreigners get experience in high quality nervbreaking tournament matches
3) the gap in team benefits - that's been the biggest advantage of korean players, having teams for analyzation, strategy developement and particularly preparation against special opponents
4) the gap in respect - many korean players are still overly feared by their foreign opponents
Thus you can't just say "the gap has closed", it is a bit more complex imho...
Concerning Serral I think he has overcome most of the "gaps".
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On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
Regarding the gap, there have been several kinds of gaps imho:
1) the gap in mechanics - it's more on the individual level, and Serral for example is on the same level as most koreans
2) the gap in experience - with the actual WCS system, more foreigners get experience in high quality nervbreaking tournament matches
3) the gap in team benefits - that's been the biggest advantage of korean players, having teams for analyzation, strategy developement and particularly preparation against special opponents
4) the gap in respect - many korean players are still overly feared by their foreign opponents
Thus you can't just say "the gap has closed", it is a bit more complex imho...
Concerning Serral I think he has overcome most of the "gaps".
Inno losing to Serral? That's a good one.
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On August 04 2018 01:05 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
Regarding the gap, there have been several kinds of gaps imho:
1) the gap in mechanics - it's more on the individual level, and Serral for example is on the same level as most koreans
2) the gap in experience - with the actual WCS system, more foreigners get experience in high quality nervbreaking tournament matches
3) the gap in team benefits - that's been the biggest advantage of korean players, having teams for analyzation, strategy developement and particularly preparation against special opponents
4) the gap in respect - many korean players are still overly feared by their foreign opponents
Thus you can't just say "the gap has closed", it is a bit more complex imho...
Concerning Serral I think he has overcome most of the "gaps". Inno losing to Serral? That's a good one.
Had to quote it so I wont forget who, when and where said that eighter to laugh at or to agree with.
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On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
Regarding the gap, there have been several kinds of gaps imho:
1) the gap in mechanics - it's more on the individual level, and Serral for example is on the same level as most koreans
2) the gap in experience - with the actual WCS system, more foreigners get experience in high quality nervbreaking tournament matches
3) the gap in team benefits - that's been the biggest advantage of korean players, having teams for analyzation, strategy developement and particularly preparation against special opponents
4) the gap in respect - many korean players are still overly feared by their foreign opponents
Thus you can't just say "the gap has closed", it is a bit more complex imho...
Concerning Serral I think he has overcome most of the "gaps".
I will wait for that time when Serral really beats Inno. But tomorrow? Doubt it. I have to see it to believe it. But if he does, at least takes a map from him, you got my support that Serral is already closing in. Inno doesn't need to do serious cheeses to beat Serral. He can do macro just fine and win.
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Maru is heavily favoured to win against Showtime. Showtime beat Innovation 4-0 recently and I think he can take a game or two off of Maru?
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On August 04 2018 00:17 MajiN1 wrote:
Big challenge for Serral he has to prove he can beat top Koreans. Inno is the first step...
No no, it's the other way around. Serral has nothing to prove. It is the Koreans that must prove that the contender is not worthy, Serral has nothing to lose at all. 
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On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
4) the gap in respect - many korean players are still overly feared by their foreign opponents
That benefits the foreigners. Look at Zest, he didn't prepare at all for Showtime. He tried to cannon rush him on the map Showtime blind counters it every time on (at least from what I've seen).
Of course it can go the other way (Elazer vs TY being an example), but I still think foreigners being forever underated by koreans actually helps them win.
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On August 04 2018 01:05 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
Regarding the gap, there have been several kinds of gaps imho:
1) the gap in mechanics - it's more on the individual level, and Serral for example is on the same level as most koreans
2) the gap in experience - with the actual WCS system, more foreigners get experience in high quality nervbreaking tournament matches
3) the gap in team benefits - that's been the biggest advantage of korean players, having teams for analyzation, strategy developement and particularly preparation against special opponents
4) the gap in respect - many korean players are still overly feared by their foreign opponents
Thus you can't just say "the gap has closed", it is a bit more complex imho...
Concerning Serral I think he has overcome most of the "gaps". Inno losing to Serral? That's a good one.
I wouldn't be at all suprised if Serral wins. INno's TvZ recently is very predictable and Serral has the skill to get around it if he prepared.
I also don't think beating Rogue means he auto wins vs a slightly lesser zerg. Rogue is seriously inconsistant and massively overrated (by casters at least).
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Cautiously optimistic that Serral will at least make it competitive against Inno. Just hope the preparation has gone well, and if he's in good shape maybe he can squeeze out of the series.
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Innnnnnnnovatioooooonnnnn!
Inno:I know you will buy my replay and research my mech,lololol
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You guys can make predictions all day long and it wont matter probably at the end. Just like it was with Mana or Has..
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Mmmmmm can't wait to watch the VOD of Dark vs Neeb
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On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
....
Even if Serral does, it won't matter because Inno (or any Korean)...
a) ... is in a slump recently (the win vs rouge was just an exeption)
b) ... didn't take it seriously because nothing was on the line, it will be totally different in an other match
c) ... seriously played his worst game in months
d) ... Serral (i.e. non-Korean) had some lucky BO wins
or a combination of those, whatever floats the boat of the person(s) who will explain this in great detail
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On August 04 2018 03:28 uummpaa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
....
Even if Serral does, it won't matter because Inno (or any Korean)... a) ... is in a slump recently (the win vs rouge was just an exeption) b) ... didn't take ist serious because nothing was on the line, it will be totally different in an other match c) ... seriously played his worst game in months d) ... Serral (i.e. non-Korean) had some lucky BO wins or a combination of those, whatever floats the boat of the person(s) who will explain this in great detail
The stupid part is that even blatent examples those get disregarded because you can't downplay the achievements of a foreigner. Makes you a korean fanboy etc
When top koreans lose to low level koreans though, everyone's in agreement that the matches don't mean much and the players are still on different skill levels 
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On August 04 2018 03:37 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 03:28 uummpaa wrote:On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
....
Even if Serral does, it won't matter because Inno (or any Korean)... a) ... is in a slump recently (the win vs rouge was just an exeption) b) ... didn't take ist serious because nothing was on the line, it will be totally different in an other match c) ... seriously played his worst game in months d) ... Serral (i.e. non-Korean) had some lucky BO wins or a combination of those, whatever floats the boat of the person(s) who will explain this in great detail The stupid part is that even blatent examples those get disregarded because you can't downplay the achievements of a foreigner. Makes you a korean fanboy etc When top koreans lose to low level koreans though, everyone's in agreement that the matches don't mean much and the players are still on different skill levels
Of course it gets disregarded when it is said every single time. That is why it gets disregarded.
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On August 04 2018 00:02 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2018 23:49 brickrd wrote:On August 03 2018 23:46 Mun_Su wrote:On August 03 2018 23:34 Poopi wrote:
Nerchio in the same sentence as Stephano / Naniwa, are you all going crazy? sorry for nerchio it didn't last nearly as long as the two others but he was amongst the very best of this game, so nothing new here nerchio dominated early LOTV almost as hard as neeb and serral for a while, but i think a lot of people didn't give him credit because he was very strong in the new meta and started to regress as the game got more figured out/more patches hit anyway, besides that, scarlett was so close, insanely close. if anyone didn't see the games then trust me, there were multiple points where it looked like she was literally about to win the series and classic just stone cold held. if you're a scarlett fan looking forward to the games, she looked good, but the way she lost is going to break your heart I don't know much about PvZ but did she look that good or Classic looked that bad to make it so close? I guess we'll find out with Dark against Classic how well Scarlett actually performed.
Bit of both. Classic's worst match up vs. Scarlett's best. It was incredibly close at the end but it was only that close because Classic was a bit sloppy. Classic will get absolutely mauled by Dark.
Really don't understand the confidence in Innovation. He's looked mediocre for months, got 4-0 by Showtime, and I don't think he looked that impressive against Rogue who is always erratic. I hate how irrational people tend to be with Inno, seeing him as some sort of infallible god because he was once dominant. I think the evidence suggests that Serral is a big favourite and I expect him to win convincingly. So many people can't see that because it breaks the illusion of Korean terrans being unbeatable machine-like demigods. I blame Artosis.
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I'm starting to think Scarlett sold part of her soul to win IEM. She's struggled ever since, hasn't won a playoff match since then, and has lost to Serral and Classic in the same heart-breaking fashion; by going up 2-1 and completely throwing one of the last two games.
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blingblang, I do agree Innovation for his standards has looked mediocre for a few months.
I wouldn't be surprised to see serral win vs inno, but I also wouldnt't be surprised to see inno win. I'm not sure.
Regarding the gap, I think it has closed slightly, Serral is just an anomaly. Hes way above other foreigners. Would love to see him in gsl but i doubt it.
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Northern Ireland174 Posts
In my mind, from the announcement of GSL vs The World I wanted it to be a Maru Serral finals that goes to a mined out 7th game map. They are certainly the best representatives for GSL and The World respectively and I really want to see that series.
We get to see Inno vs Serral next and even if the dream above doesn't come true at least that will be a good series :D
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I like how Innovation looked like he didn't even care right from the beginning.
Scarletts game 5 vs Classic was amazing, had me on the edge of my seat a couple of times. Great series!
Overall I'd say right now either Maru, Innovation or Dark will take this although I'm hoping for Showtime to give us a huge upset.
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On August 04 2018 03:42 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 03:37 Fango wrote:On August 04 2018 03:28 uummpaa wrote:On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
....
Even if Serral does, it won't matter because Inno (or any Korean)... a) ... is in a slump recently (the win vs rouge was just an exeption) b) ... didn't take ist serious because nothing was on the line, it will be totally different in an other match c) ... seriously played his worst game in months d) ... Serral (i.e. non-Korean) had some lucky BO wins or a combination of those, whatever floats the boat of the person(s) who will explain this in great detail The stupid part is that even blatent examples those get disregarded because you can't downplay the achievements of a foreigner. Makes you a korean fanboy etc When top koreans lose to low level koreans though, everyone's in agreement that the matches don't mean much and the players are still on different skill levels Of course it gets disregarded when it is said every single time. That is why it gets disregarded.
It's not said every time. When Reynor beat Classic, most people agreed it was because he played really well and creative.
Of course in general, when better players lose to lesser ones, there is often an external reason behind it. When top koreans lose to lesser koreans, most people will say they slumped, or didn't care much about the match, or got unlucky or something.
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...
Of course in general, when better players lose to lesser ones, there is often an external reason behind it. When top koreans lose to lesser koreans, most people will say they slumped, or didn't care much about the match, or got unlucky or something.
Thats true enough, but the problem is more, that if it is korean vs non-korean, people tend to extrapolate one match to the capabilities of the entire region (and that's the case for both sides of the camp imho)
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On August 04 2018 01:52 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 00:17 MajiN1 wrote:
Big challenge for Serral he has to prove he can beat top Koreans. Inno is the first step... No no, it's the other way around. Serral has nothing to prove. It is the Koreans that must prove that the contender is not worthy, Serral has nothing to lose at all.
Serral has a lot to prove. He didn't perform in korean tournament just like Neeb did when he won kespa cup.
He has to prove that he is a top contender to big events. It is now or never because the next and final stop will be Blizzcon.
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On August 04 2018 04:53 MajiN1 wrote:
...
Serral has a lot to prove. He didn't perform in korean tournament just like Neeb did when he won kespa cup.
He has to prove that he is a top contender to big events. It is now or never because the next and final stop will be Blizzcon.
i guess a 3rd place in WESG (with a win over classic, since neeb was 3rd the year before) and a ro4 at IEM WC is nothing to ignore as well.
Especially if you consider the fact that Neeb mostly had to win PvPs back in the day (i think it was one series vs. Pet or something). Still a pretty damn good achivement from him, but I rate Serrals higher tbh.
Even if he loses a close series vs inno its still a good sign for his level i would say
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I wonder what ppl would call if Serral actually won GSL vs WCS...
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Neeb beat rogue in a best of seven. Therefore neeb is a boss. (when has rogue ever lost a best of seven????) Dark such a beast and we all know dark is "he who could beat maru"
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On August 04 2018 04:45 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 03:42 BaneRiders wrote:On August 04 2018 03:37 Fango wrote:On August 04 2018 03:28 uummpaa wrote:On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
....
Even if Serral does, it won't matter because Inno (or any Korean)... a) ... is in a slump recently (the win vs rouge was just an exeption) b) ... didn't take ist serious because nothing was on the line, it will be totally different in an other match c) ... seriously played his worst game in months d) ... Serral (i.e. non-Korean) had some lucky BO wins or a combination of those, whatever floats the boat of the person(s) who will explain this in great detail The stupid part is that even blatent examples those get disregarded because you can't downplay the achievements of a foreigner. Makes you a korean fanboy etc When top koreans lose to low level koreans though, everyone's in agreement that the matches don't mean much and the players are still on different skill levels Of course it gets disregarded when it is said every single time. That is why it gets disregarded. It's not said every time. When Reynor beat Classic, most people agreed it was because he played really well and creative.
Oh really? Well, I stand corrected. It must be the first time a foreigner gets that kind of credit since I started following SC2 some five years ago... Foreigner bashing and making up apologies now, that has been rather consistent and tiresome for many years on TL. One of my 'favorite' excuses is the ZvZ excuse. If a foreigner wins, its because it is a ZvZ, implying any gold league dude can win a Bo5 ZvZ against a Korean pro on pure f2/a-move + luck. If a Korean wins however, it is because of supreme micro/macro/decision making/good looks/whatever. 
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On August 04 2018 06:30 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 04:45 Fango wrote:On August 04 2018 03:42 BaneRiders wrote:On August 04 2018 03:37 Fango wrote:On August 04 2018 03:28 uummpaa wrote:On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
....
Even if Serral does, it won't matter because Inno (or any Korean)... a) ... is in a slump recently (the win vs rouge was just an exeption) b) ... didn't take ist serious because nothing was on the line, it will be totally different in an other match c) ... seriously played his worst game in months d) ... Serral (i.e. non-Korean) had some lucky BO wins or a combination of those, whatever floats the boat of the person(s) who will explain this in great detail The stupid part is that even blatent examples those get disregarded because you can't downplay the achievements of a foreigner. Makes you a korean fanboy etc When top koreans lose to low level koreans though, everyone's in agreement that the matches don't mean much and the players are still on different skill levels Of course it gets disregarded when it is said every single time. That is why it gets disregarded. It's not said every time. When Reynor beat Classic, most people agreed it was because he played really well and creative. Oh really? Well, I stand corrected. It must be the first time a foreigner gets that kind of credit since I started following SC2 some five years ago... Foreigner bashing and making up apologies now, that has been rather consistent and tiresome for many years on TL. One of my 'favorite' excuses is the ZvZ excuse. If a foreigner wins, its because it is a ZvZ, implying any gold league dude can win a Bo5 ZvZ against a Korean pro on pure f2/a-move + luck. If a Korean wins however, it is because of supreme micro/macro/decision making/good looks/whatever.
This is not just a foreigner vs korean thing as Fango already said.
When a weaker korean beats a stronger one the same is usually said too, like when ByuN beat Stats last GSL
a lot of people also were like "wow Stats played like trash today, lucky ByuN".
Turns out there's often a reason why one player is regarded higher than the other one and winning one set against him doesn't mean you're suddenly a better player.
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Everyone respects Scarletts skill, and she is a foreigner. The difference is that she doesnt hide from Koreans and doesnt rely on online "results" to carry her resume. Imo scarlett is the best foreigner, just had a little slump and focused on gsl while serral played low tier players.
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On August 04 2018 00:57 Tommy131313 wrote:
Serral will crush Innovation - that is, until Inno does some serious cheese to topple Serral.
Regarding the gap, there have been several kinds of gaps imho:
1) the gap in mechanics - it's more on the individual level, and Serral for example is on the same level as most koreans
2) the gap in experience - with the actual WCS system, more foreigners get experience in high quality nervbreaking tournament matches
3) the gap in team benefits - that's been the biggest advantage of korean players, having teams for analyzation, strategy developement and particularly preparation against special opponents
4) the gap in respect - many korean players are still overly feared by their foreign opponents
Thus you can't just say "the gap has closed", it is a bit more complex imho...
Concerning Serral I think he has overcome most of the "gaps".
innovation is far from his top form and close to retirement, serral never will achieve as much as him.
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On August 03 2018 22:43 DBooN wrote:
3 foreigners in the ro8, conclusive proof that the gap has closed.
This is sarcasm right?
The only foreigner that advanced vs a Korean opponent was Showtime. the 2 others defeated Foreign players.
It was literally impossible for us to not have at least 2 Foreigners in Ro8.
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On August 04 2018 06:42 Rodya wrote:
Everyone respects Scarletts skill, and she is a foreigner. The difference is that she doesnt hide from Koreans and doesnt rely on online "results" to carry her resume. Imo scarlett is the best foreigner, just had a little slump and focused on gsl while serral played low tier players.
Everyone? Pretty sure her latest results and beyond were cheesed, which was patched out just a week later. She also played against "low tier" in leipzig. She dropped out of leipzig pools against "low tier". Not sure what you actually respect. Even those games aganst Classic were GOGOGO BANELINGS!
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On August 04 2018 05:01 uummpaa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 04:53 MajiN1 wrote:
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Serral has a lot to prove. He didn't perform in korean tournament just like Neeb did when he won kespa cup.
He has to prove that he is a top contender to big events. It is now or never because the next and final stop will be Blizzcon. i guess a 3rd place in WESG (with a win over classic, since neeb was 3rd the year before) and a ro4 at IEM WC is nothing to ignore as well. Especially if you consider the fact that Neeb mostly had to win PvPs back in the day (i think it was one series vs. Pet or something). Still a pretty damn good achivement from him, but I rate Serrals higher tbh. Even if he loses a close series vs inno its still a good sign for his level i would say
Serral squeeked by Trap 3-2. Trap is not even the best Protoss in Korea. Serral then proceeded in Katowice to get stomped hard by Classic.
That's what he did to get ro4... one series win against Trap.
Now lets look at WESG... he beat neeb... and lost to Maru 0-3. Okay, he beat Classic 3-1 in the third place match, sure, but he lost 0-3 to Classic when the match truly mattered for the tournament.
Stop saying "Serral got top 4 at WESG!!", that makes it sound much more impressive than it is. Serral beat Neeb to get there.
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It's clear that we can all agree on five things.
1) Game 5 of classic v. scarlett was slightly entertaining.
2) The sky is blue due to Raleigh scattering.
3) Lotv has finally stabilised to the point where good tactics are rewarded in addition to macro/micro.
4) Serral, Gumiho, and Neeb all represent a single phenomenon: The rise of players who leveraged their initial prowess in mirror matchup to go farther and eventually diversify.
5) This upcoming Blizzcon is going to be more fun than the one we saw in 2019.
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On August 04 2018 09:32 KR_4EVR wrote:
5) This upcoming Blizzcon is going to be more fun than the one we saw in 2019.
Can I borrow your time machine? I need to tell my 2011 self to invest in Bitcoin.
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This thread lmao WHAT. HAPPENED.
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On August 04 2018 08:35 Rodya wrote:
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Serral squeeked by Trap 3-2. Trap is not even the best Protoss in Korea. Serral then proceeded in Katowice to get stomped hard by Classic.
That's what he did to get ro4... one series win against Trap.
Now lets look at WESG... he beat neeb... and lost to Maru 0-3. Okay, he beat Classic 3-1 in the third place match, sure, but he lost 0-3 to Classic when the match truly mattered for the tournament.
Stop saying "Serral got top 4 at WESG!!", that makes it sound much more impressive than it is. Serral beat Neeb to get there.
k,
beating trap in a final is an achivement, in a quarterfinal of a way bigger tournament isn't. 5:0 a group with 3 koreans in it (one of them the later champion) also.
and classic sure didn't give his all in WESG, with just 20.000 bucks on the line, whatever proves your point i guess
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I was very upset when Scarlett didn't kill the exposed base when she had Classic pinned up his natural ramp...
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EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2018/gslvsworldbanner.jpg)
Neeb and ![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/WCS2018/gslworldbracket3.png)
