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I think the over-hyping thing is a stylistic choice for Tastosis, and perhaps a certain dutch who loves Serral oh so much. (Note: I like very much both Serral AND the casting of that particular dutch, I just think they might not be the match made in heaven).
But personally I find myself quite used to hyperbole, and don't feel the need of overthinking whether everything I'm hearing is completely accurate and not, perhaps, massively exaggerated for the sake of hyping.
When it comes to the desire for insightful and complex analysis mid/post game, there I do agree with OP. I would love to hear a sentence every now and then, that I wasn't expecting. A deep thought about the fundamentals of a particular game scenario or something. And I also think, like OP does, that it would only make beginner viewers appreciate that these guys actually might know what they are talking about.
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Very interesting article! Certainly gave me something to think about.
I think you guys have already done a pretty good job of explaining both sides of the argument, so I don't really have a whole lot to add.
I will say that taste is subjective, which is why I think there is so much disagreement on this topic. I guess I'll note that I do think it's possible that the people who speak in hyperbole really do have conviction in what they're saying. While it's possible that they could be saying what they say just to generate excitement, I don't think it'd be a hard sell to me that the casters genuinely believe that X was the best game/player/series in history.
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"Imagine being Maru—who spent years winning impossible matches"
He did not. No-one did the impossible ever. He might did the improbable, but not the impossible. No-one did, not even once, anywhere.
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On July 27 2018 09:03 [F_]aths wrote:
"Imagine being Maru—who spent years winning impossible matches"
He did not. No-one did the impossible ever. He might did the improbable, but not the impossible. No-one did, not even once, ever.
I think the hyperbole is quite clear and appropriate there. Maru spent years winning games that would have been impossible (or at least highly improbable) for literally any other player.
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Maybe there are multiple best players in the world in different situations?
One must consider fact that some players play against the best players in the world (later in bracket/pools). The fmeans that those players themselves are the best players in the world that day. And therefore their exhibition of victory against the best players in the worlds is that of the best in the world. They came into the best situations in the world. Hence, their prior plays are the best in the world after victory. Their current play today is the best in the world after victory.
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There's nothing wrong with hype.
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cliff notes: humans can exaggerate
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Bisutopia19300 Posts
The best part about the hype is that my wife actually tires of hearing it and all the hyperbole when I've got the games on the TV. She definitely has her preference in SC2 casters for the very reasons in this article lol. Although some of her caster bias may come from her attraction to Germans (quarter German myself  ) So maybe it is good for new comers, but it can have negative impact on those who hang out with us as we watch.
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While I do think this article addresses a real and valid problem in caster overhype, Tastosis are obviously being paid to cast, and that includes hyping things up. I vividly recall one instance where Player X's situation was so hopeless that Tasteless bluntly admits that even as the hype man, he can't find a way to sell Player X's situation. Tastosis have no way of measuring how much or little hype the audience wants at any given moment, so erring on the side of too much is forgivable in my eyes. Faulting Tastosis for doing their job as they see best seems like quite a stretch.
Personally, I am far more annoyed by the persistent and systemic overhype of players by the community. Especially fan favorites. Whenever certain players win a game, or pull off a sick micro clip, or so on and so forth, it seems as though the community immediately rushes out to proclaim them the "GOAT this" or "Bonjwa that." This is made painfully obvious in the specific case of reddit's upvote system–I guess they call it a circlejerk for a reason. While I can understand people getting caught up in the moment and getting swept away by hype, it's still pretty damn cringeworthy to watch when it happens every single time. And they have no excuse of just doing their jobs. Are they fans or fanatics? (yes I know the etymology)
I'm less inclined to worry about the overuse of player narratives, since progamers are people like any other, and people are complex. Casters need handy narratives to frame the context of a game. That's not to say the narrative should override the reality of what's playing out on-screen, but shoehorning specific players–to some extent–doesn't strike me as a huge problem.
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Finland955 Posts
On July 27 2018 06:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
I was expecting more drama from this. This isn't the Greatest Drama of All Time
This is essentially just a tribute.
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Something that tends to happen with Tastosis, but I'm sure with others also, is that they often decide what the narrative of a game is and then try and stick to it, rather than let the game follow its own narrative. Most of the time it goes unnoticed because you can kind of tell what most series are going to be about, but when something unexpected happens and they have to course correct everything they'd been saying it looks quite bad. Last time I noticed that was Dear vs soO in Ro16 season 2.
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This is a really elaborate way of saying you don't like over-exaggeration during casts. But it got me to watch Squirtles archon toilet again so I'm fine with it.
[clip of herO vs hyun ending]The purpose of analysis and commentary is to provide perspective that a typical fan cannot offer—insight that only experts possess. Commentary should enrich the viewing experience by putting single moments into context, explaining exactly why a player's actions are skillful and special.
But what makes this particular minute of cast great (for me) is not expert analysis, it's the passion and emotion from Apollo and Kaelaris. "Blink like you've never blinked before herO!' and that cry after the dust settles with a handful stalkers left 'wooohooaoorrg'. and Kaelaris just losing his mind 'omg omg omg'. Like you can imagine them jumping around just by the sound of it, that's how much energy they bring to this finale moment.
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HerO and Polt played one of the most amazing PvT series to date at the criminally overlooked IEM Cologne
I saw this live and it was, for me, the greatest series I witnessed. Of course, being there in person was one of the perks.
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It's hard to believe that this is so rare in other esports, since it seems to permeate conversations about anything, lately. The best restaurant ever, the best movie ever, "simply the greatest piece of music ever composed, imo", blah blah.
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They could tone it down a little. Arty gives good in depth commentary imo. Tasteless seems a bit more out of the loop. I've watched all GSL vods recently, and he mostly just adds a lot of unrelated stuff.
Maybe their dynamic has grown quite stale after all these years. They need to take a different approach, or challenge themselves more.
Inspect and adapt!
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On July 27 2018 11:21 BisuDagger wrote:The best part about the hype is that my wife actually tires of hearing it and all the hyperbole when I've got the games on the TV. She definitely has her preference in SC2 casters for the very reasons in this article lol. Although some of her caster bias may come from her attraction to Germans (quarter German myself ) So maybe it is good for new comers, but it can have negative impact on those who hang out with us as we watch.
Anecdotally on the opposite end, my wife only enjoys watching Starcraft with me when we watch Artosis because she finds him funny and his love for the game comes off as genuine.
I agree with the points made in the article but I do think they paint a bleaker portrait of that casting style than the reality is. I also think that very high level players are always more upset at the lack of super in depth analysis. I think this article could serve as a guideline for casters to use for improving their craft because nothing that has been noted is flat out wrong, but I don't think that certain casters are unwatchable because of the hype and hyperbole as some people have suggested.
This is a great write-up and useful just for the discussion it provokes in the community. Thanks for the content!
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Bisutopia19300 Posts
On July 27 2018 21:23 Bijan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2018 11:21 BisuDagger wrote:The best part about the hype is that my wife actually tires of hearing it and all the hyperbole when I've got the games on the TV. She definitely has her preference in SC2 casters for the very reasons in this article lol. Although some of her caster bias may come from her attraction to Germans (quarter German myself ) So maybe it is good for new comers, but it can have negative impact on those who hang out with us as we watch. Anecdotally on the opposite end, my wife only enjoys watching Starcraft with me when we watch Artosis because she finds him funny and his love for the game comes off as genuine. I agree with the points made in the article but I do think they paint a bleaker portrait of that casting style than the reality is. I also think that very high level players are always more upset at the lack of super in depth analysis. I think this article could serve as a guideline for casters to use for improving their craft because nothing that has been noted is flat out wrong, but I don't think that certain casters are unwatchable because of the hype and hyperbole as some people have suggested. This is a great write-up and useful just for the discussion it provokes in the community. Thanks for the content!
Since you mentioned Artosis(Tastosis) specifically, I actually enjoy their Brood War casting very much despite being a 20 year veteran of the game. I do not require their in depth analysis because I think they are having a lot of fun when casting the game. They are enjoyable as SC2 casters too, but I think they do fall in the hype trap or the focus on specific skill type casting just a bit more.
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On July 27 2018 21:40 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2018 21:23 Bijan wrote:On July 27 2018 11:21 BisuDagger wrote:The best part about the hype is that my wife actually tires of hearing it and all the hyperbole when I've got the games on the TV. She definitely has her preference in SC2 casters for the very reasons in this article lol. Although some of her caster bias may come from her attraction to Germans (quarter German myself ) So maybe it is good for new comers, but it can have negative impact on those who hang out with us as we watch. Anecdotally on the opposite end, my wife only enjoys watching Starcraft with me when we watch Artosis because she finds him funny and his love for the game comes off as genuine. I agree with the points made in the article but I do think they paint a bleaker portrait of that casting style than the reality is. I also think that very high level players are always more upset at the lack of super in depth analysis. I think this article could serve as a guideline for casters to use for improving their craft because nothing that has been noted is flat out wrong, but I don't think that certain casters are unwatchable because of the hype and hyperbole as some people have suggested. This is a great write-up and useful just for the discussion it provokes in the community. Thanks for the content! Since you mentioned Artosis(Tastosis) specifically, I actually enjoy their Brood War casting very much despite being a 20 year veteran of the game. I do not require their in depth analysis because I think they are having a lot of fun when casting the game. They are enjoyable as SC2 casters too, but I think they do fall in the hype trap or the focus on specific skill type casting just a bit more.
I was actually curious what some of the Brood War veterans thought about their casting style. As someone who was introduced to esports with SC2 they have made me fall in love with competitive BW. I can't play at all, I don't understand the intricacies beyond what they share with me, but the game is so beautiful and the skills of the players are so amazing that the ASL and KSL now have become my favorite esports broadcasts to watch. I don't know if in depth analysis would be something I would appreciate more or if it would have pushed me away.
Something that I think is left out of the discussion is that perhaps more hype is needed in SC2 because the observing interface gives us so much detail. It's been mentioned before, but the suspense in BW and the narratives within individual games are at a completely different level than in SC2 because of how little information you have while watching. This might only be a minor factor but I believe it actually makes the caster's job harder in SC2 because the interface does a lot of the work for them. The second half of the article concerning oversimplification might be the answer to this issue though. It might be even more important to paint a broader narrative of the player's skills and their previous results if you have less tools to build a narrative in each series.
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I like how people are defending it as "hype", well yes ofc it is used to hype things up but there would be a lot of possible techniques between "this game is shit" and "this is the best game ever" to generate excitement.
Is it really too much to ask to get it a little more nuanced?
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EPT
