On July 20 2018 11:08 DomeGetta wrote: Yah so imo what we are seeing presently is 100% a result of the raven nerf with compensatory mara and viking buff. Its a little unsettling that it wasnt an obvious or intended consequence when you think about it. What else could possibly have happened? You literally dont see terran players (even maru) intending whatsoever to play late game scenarios in any non mirror..it makes no sense. Terran has the worst macro mechanic for this stage in the game..rate of build for remax etc. The raven was stupid to watch but its also really stupid to watch broodlord infestor spore crawler slow push the map.. its also stupid to watch mass templar tempest colo rupter deathballs steamroll a move a late game terran army...so im not saying to revert the raven..but follow thru on fixing the other races caveman bullshit that anyone can execute by literally staying alive for 25 min...im including mech in that equation too.
Edit: Just to be clear.. im not saying all races need equal strength at all times in the game..but i am saying that the ultimate composition of any race should not be so easy to micro and multi with that you cant tell the difference whether stats is playing or some random masters player in a late game fight. Mechanics should be important all the way thru the game so that t > 25 isnt a predetermined conclusion and someone who can micro / macro and multitask 2 x his opponent will still win the game regardless of what race they play.
If you think Broodlord/Infestor/Viper/Hydra/Queen army with creep and spores pushes is easy to control, just go and try it in efficient way. I bet u would fall trying.
In Activision HQ, a fat, balding middle-aged man is talking with his secretary. 'Microtransaction sales in SC2 for the last quarter are far lower than expected, tell the SC2 team to do something about it', says the man. 'Uuuugh, sir, there is no SC2 team...we moved them over to Overwatch and Hearthstone a long time ago....' 'Then tell marketing to do something about it, maybe they can have some intern try his hand at it.' And that's how this community feedback update was born.
On July 20 2018 18:08 ihatevideogames wrote: In Activision HQ, a fat, balding middle-aged man is talking with his secretary. 'Microtransaction sales in SC2 for the last quarter are far lower than expected, tell the SC2 team to do something about it', says the man. 'Uuuugh, sir, there is no SC2 team...we moved them over to Overwatch and Hearthstone a long time ago....' 'Then tell marketing to do something about it, maybe they can have some intern try his hand at it.' And that's how this community feedback update was born.
On July 20 2018 18:08 ihatevideogames wrote: In Activision HQ, a fat, balding middle-aged man is talking with his secretary. 'Microtransaction sales in SC2 for the last quarter are far lower than expected, tell the SC2 team to do something about it', says the man. 'Uuuugh, sir, there is no SC2 team...we moved them over to Overwatch and Hearthstone a long time ago....' 'Then tell marketing to do something about it, maybe they can have some intern try his hand at it.' And that's how this community feedback update was born.
Somewhere in a basement, a fat, balding middle-aged man is talking to himself. "I absolutely hate microtransactions in SC2, so I better make sure to let everyone on TL know regardless of the actual topic of the thread", says the man. "Uuuuugh, sir, not sure if there's any connection between microtransactions and game balance in SC2..." "Then I'll just wrap my nonsense in a supposed-to-be-funny dialogue so hopefully nobody finds out it's not related, at all!" And that's how this comment was born.
On July 20 2018 18:08 ihatevideogames wrote: In Activision HQ, a fat, balding middle-aged man is talking with his secretary. 'Microtransaction sales in SC2 for the last quarter are far lower than expected, tell the SC2 team to do something about it', says the man. 'Uuuugh, sir, there is no SC2 team...we moved them over to Overwatch and Hearthstone a long time ago....' 'Then tell marketing to do something about it, maybe they can have some intern try his hand at it.' And that's how this community feedback update was born.
Somewhere in a basement, a fat, balding middle-aged man is talking to himself. "I absolutely hate microtransactions in SC2, so I better make sure to let everyone on TL know regardless of the actual topic of the thread", says the man. "Uuuuugh, sir, not sure if there's any connection between microtransactions and game balance in SC2..." "Then I'll just wrap my nonsense in a supposed-to-be-funny dialouge so hopefully nobody finds out it's not related, at all!" And that's how this comment was born.
On July 20 2018 16:25 Haikus wrote: I've never liked blizzard's philosophy of "different advantages at different points of the game." The problem being: you're basically putting one race (in most cases the terran) on a timer, and forcing them to play a few specific, aggressive ways. That's just not a good way to design a real time strategy game.
It's not anyone's philosophy because Blizzard or people like it. It's just an inevitable outcome of a game with 3 vastly different races. The point is to make it so that those disparities in strength at each stage are minimized.
I think current ballance is in a good spot overall. The muarder change made Terran feel a lot more even in power level with the other races. As I predicted the Viking has done next to nothing to ballance out the raven nerf, but at least Terran midgame is now strong enough that you can often force a midgame advantage that lets you scale into late game faster and shut down Zerg or Protoss before they get there. Ghosts are also still a decent late game unit for Terran that can allow them to close out a game if they have enough of a lead and frankly I think that's fine. In tvz Terran has the initive for most of the game after the hydra nerfs so it's fine that Zerg late game is stronger. In tvp I think ballance is a bit more questionable but Terran at least has several good opening stratagies they can employ to get a lead
That's my take on where we are after the last patch as a primarily Terran but also random master player. overall I'm loving the state of the game right now, balance is fairly good, lots of viable ways to play for all races. Things are going well some small tuning for the pro level might be needed but I think for most of us plebs the game is in a better state than its been in awhile.
On July 20 2018 18:08 ihatevideogames wrote: In Activision HQ, a fat, balding middle-aged man is talking with his secretary. 'Microtransaction sales in SC2 for the last quarter are far lower than expected, tell the SC2 team to do something about it', says the man. 'Uuuugh, sir, there is no SC2 team...we moved them over to Overwatch and Hearthstone a long time ago....' 'Then tell marketing to do something about it, maybe they can have some intern try his hand at it.' And that's how this community feedback update was born.
Somewhere in a basement, a fat, balding middle-aged man is talking to himself. "I absolutely hate microtransactions in SC2, so I better make sure to let everyone on TL know regardless of the actual topic of the thread", says the man. "Uuuuugh, sir, not sure if there's any connection between microtransactions and game balance in SC2..." "Then I'll just wrap my nonsense in a supposed-to-be-funny dialogue so hopefully nobody finds out it's not related, at all!" And that's how this comment was born.
On July 20 2018 18:08 ihatevideogames wrote: In Activision HQ, a fat, balding middle-aged man is talking with his secretary. 'Microtransaction sales in SC2 for the last quarter are far lower than expected, tell the SC2 team to do something about it', says the man. 'Uuuugh, sir, there is no SC2 team...we moved them over to Overwatch and Hearthstone a long time ago....' 'Then tell marketing to do something about it, maybe they can have some intern try his hand at it.' And that's how this community feedback update was born.
Somewhere in a basement, a fat, balding middle-aged man is talking to himself. "I absolutely hate microtransactions in SC2, so I better make sure to let everyone on TL know regardless of the actual topic of the thread", says the man. "Uuuuugh, sir, not sure if there's any connection between microtransactions and game balance in SC2..." "Then I'll just wrap my nonsense in a supposed-to-be-funny dialogue so hopefully nobody finds out it's not related, at all!" And that's how this comment was born.
On July 20 2018 11:08 DomeGetta wrote: Yah so imo what we are seeing presently is 100% a result of the raven nerf with compensatory mara and viking buff. Its a little unsettling that it wasnt an obvious or intended consequence when you think about it. What else could possibly have happened? You literally dont see terran players (even maru) intending whatsoever to play late game scenarios in any non mirror..it makes no sense. Terran has the worst macro mechanic for this stage in the game..rate of build for remax etc. The raven was stupid to watch but its also really stupid to watch broodlord infestor spore crawler slow push the map.. its also stupid to watch mass templar tempest colo rupter deathballs steamroll a move a late game terran army...so im not saying to revert the raven..but follow thru on fixing the other races caveman bullshit that anyone can execute by literally staying alive for 25 min...im including mech in that equation too.
Edit: Just to be clear.. im not saying all races need equal strength at all times in the game..but i am saying that the ultimate composition of any race should not be so easy to micro and multi with that you cant tell the difference whether stats is playing or some random masters player in a late game fight. Mechanics should be important all the way thru the game so that t > 25 isnt a predetermined conclusion and someone who can micro / macro and multitask 2 x his opponent will still win the game regardless of what race they play.
If you think Broodlord/Infestor/Viper/Hydra/Queen army with creep and spores pushes is easy to control, just go and try it in efficient way. I bet u would fall trying.
I hesitate to even respond to this based on your demonstrated capability to whine for Zerg independent of the state of the game (see your previous post for 1 example of this). Having said that - regardless of how much I disagree with even your current point here - you are missing the main idea in my post. Unless you are saying that there is some level of counter-play (micro / multi or even strategy) that can allow a Terran player of higher skill level to beat this ultimate composition - you aren't really disagreeing with me? There is only so much to do with that army above - Broodlords literal a move - queens literal a move and spam transfuse - spores uproot and move forward at your leisure and infestors fungal when units are in range? My proposal is to create tier 3 tech comps for all races that have higher skill ceilings to utilize so that even though one races tier 3 might be stronger than another races - the game isn't 100% over just because it got to that point.
On July 20 2018 11:08 DomeGetta wrote: Yah so imo what we are seeing presently is 100% a result of the raven nerf with compensatory mara and viking buff. Its a little unsettling that it wasnt an obvious or intended consequence when you think about it. What else could possibly have happened? You literally dont see terran players (even maru) intending whatsoever to play late game scenarios in any non mirror..it makes no sense. Terran has the worst macro mechanic for this stage in the game..rate of build for remax etc. The raven was stupid to watch but its also really stupid to watch broodlord infestor spore crawler slow push the map.. its also stupid to watch mass templar tempest colo rupter deathballs steamroll a move a late game terran army...so im not saying to revert the raven..but follow thru on fixing the other races caveman bullshit that anyone can execute by literally staying alive for 25 min...im including mech in that equation too.
Edit: Just to be clear.. im not saying all races need equal strength at all times in the game..but i am saying that the ultimate composition of any race should not be so easy to micro and multi with that you cant tell the difference whether stats is playing or some random masters player in a late game fight. Mechanics should be important all the way thru the game so that t > 25 isnt a predetermined conclusion and someone who can micro / macro and multitask 2 x his opponent will still win the game regardless of what race they play.
If you think Broodlord/Infestor/Viper/Hydra/Queen army with creep and spores pushes is easy to control, just go and try it in efficient way. I bet u would fall trying.
I hesitate to even respond to this based on your demonstrated capability to whine for Zerg independent of the state of the game (see your previous post for 1 example of this). Having said that - regardless of how much I disagree with even your current point here - you are missing the main idea in my post. Unless you are saying that there is some level of counter-play (micro / multi or even strategy) that can allow a Terran player of higher skill level to beat this ultimate composition - you aren't really disagreeing with me? There is only so much to do with that army above - Broodlords literal a move - queens literal a move and spam transfuse - spores uproot and move forward at your leisure and infestors fungal when units are in range? My proposal is to create tier 3 tech comps for all races that have higher skill ceilings to utilize so that even though one races tier 3 might be stronger than another races - the game isn't 100% over just because it got to that point.
80% of Zerg is a-move, but Broodlords are not. You use them like carriers: have them release their volley then retreat. A-moving them at a high level would just get them killed.
Queens (Infestors as well, vipers too) are countered hard by ghosts- try EMP and they are useless- but no... it's easier to queue some snipes on rapid fire and then go whine on forums. Broodlords are countered by ghost too via Snipe.
If u face Broodlord/Viper/Infestor/Queen army, which again- is super hard to control properly to their max efectiveness, you should have Ghosts and Ravens among with bio/tank or Thor/Viking in the same time. Ghosts countering Vioer/Infestor/Queen- really one or two EMP is enough, Raven for AAM and bio for dmg. Look how fast all disappears with -3 armour on it.
Now. I don't say that this Terran compositions is easy to control, but it's also the case for this Zerg composition. Only at the highest level of play we see this level of control and still it's not perfect.
Saying that Broodlord/Vioer/Infestor/Queen is a-move composition is just fucking bias- Avilo Level.
There is at the moment a lot of suggestions about buffing the BC, but imo the cons outweight the pros by far. I think Terran is fine if they don't sit around doing nothing. I do not believe that both players sitting around and macroing up needs to result in an even match. I only believe that the race that is required to be aggressive should not need to have way better multitasking, but that is an entirely different problem. Although these two are often confused. Terran Bio is atm the probably most fun composition in the game so making BC-Raven or whatever the Terran equivalent to Carrier-Templar viable would be extremely stupid. Just because Protoss has a kinda dumb lategame composition doesn't mean Terran needs one too. Two wrongs don't make a right. If anything Blizzard should kill Carrier-Templar. Any mass air composition in general should not be viable at any point. Something about the irrelevance of terrain and unit collisions just makes it much less fun.
On July 20 2018 03:13 JackONeill wrote: Yeah fair enough TvZ late game is zerg favored.
But... nothing about late game TvP being protoss favored? At this point it's becoming a meme but also : nothing about mech still being horrible in TvP?
Is it? Do you have some example games (in GSL) where the Protoss lategame was shown to be imba?
And if you wanna fix Mech being horrible in TvP start remaking the whole Protoss race from the ground up. Its basically like Protoss was inherently designed to kill mech. Which is wonderful since mech is so terrible in SC2.
On July 21 2018 01:22 hiroshOne wrote: Queens (Infestors as well, vipers too) are countered hard by ghosts- try EMP and they are useless- but no... it's easier to queue some snipes on rapid fire and then go whine on forums. Broodlords are countered by ghost too via Snipe.
If u face Broodlord/Viper/Infestor/Queen army, which again- is super hard to control properly to their max efectiveness, you should have Ghosts and Ravens among with bio/tank or Thor/Viking in the same time. Ghosts countering Vioer/Infestor/Queen- really one or two EMP is enough, Raven for AAM and bio for dmg. Look how fast all disappears with -3 armour on it.
Now. I don't say that this Terran compositions is easy to control, but it's also the case for this Zerg composition. Only at the highest level of play we see this level of control and still it's not perfect.
Saying that Broodlord/Vioer/Infestor/Queen is a-move composition is just fucking bias- Avilo Level.
bias avilo level? afaik he also playing zerg and having ok lategame zvt lel
EPT
