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Starting from Page 11 and onward, if anyone talks about how Blizzard, TOs, and sponsors should no longer support BTTV and Rifkin, you will be temp banned. This adds NOTHING productive to the discussion and only makes the community look immature. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/532710-basetradetv-and-noregret-disagreement-escalates?page=11#216 Additionally, this post deserves to be publicly noticed. | ||
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BuffSC2
6 Posts
This kind of situation is exactly what the law is for, but that directly relates to their agreement before hand. It might seem morally one way or another to different people, but it really doesn't matter. What matters is what the agreement was before this happened. | ||
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
At times point can we just stop working and supporting him? Like there are so many ppl providing way better content... like those 2 guys from "Gauntlet? (I bad with names lol)... Like There is no way someone WAY better could grown better brand... and we just label rifking with all this crap and there is no way he could ever work in esports again, which would be awesome because harrasing ppl actually doing stuff is stupid... and ALL of that FOR 1500 Bucks... Anyway I'm with Noregret here... and there is no way rifkin has anything because its him (lying dumb person) with serious ego issues User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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GreatTrash
24 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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KingOfNoodles
Australia379 Posts
On April 05 2018 21:53 Scarlett` wrote: Me and other players were never notified of this '10% tax'; and as far as I know has not happened up until now (me, sortof, dns, etc) have played in his tournaments since the beginning of december The money was an investment from basetrade into the house, invoiced as 'house startup costs' when we were buying beds/chairs/1 monitor for the house at the start of 2017, then labeled 'the basetradetv house', and there was nothing indicating this money was to be returned when the house ended (given the exposure the house generated, etc) After we moved to a new place at the end of 2017 without basetrade involvement, rifkin demanded us to ship these items to him at our own expense, which we were under no obligation to do, and has since threatened to sue over this I think the question at hand is: Who is the owner of these items? Did noregret and the new training house members pay for these items in its entirety when the involvement with basetrade ended? Keep in mind that all of this is just my speculation... It's one thing to say that nothing is owed to rifkin, but it's another thing to have in possession something that the new team house has not paid for. Still, if that is the case, I also don't think that you guys need to ship it back to him if it was not under written agreement, I just think that you shouldn't use these items, just get rid of them and buy new ones. Whether rifkin wants to collect the items in person, or pay for shipping is up to him. On the other hand regarding the basetradetv terms and conditions. While basetradetv has the right the change the terms(as stipulated from the terms and conditions), It is nevertheless still incredibly shady to change the terms without any notification to the affected party. Does basetradetv really want to develop a reputation for changing the terms affecting the players prize money without even giving notice the the players involved. I feel that that is in incredibly poor taste. | ||
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tjtombo
United States295 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22250 Posts
On April 06 2018 00:39 tjtombo wrote: Idk if people are trolling, but I have seen like 3 people post along the lines of "im siding with noregret because i dont like rifkin". Now I wont make a "siding" statement cus idk who is at fault at all here. But if you choose who you side with based on who you like more, you are admitting you have no principles. If you have a standard for what is right and what is wrong, you owe it to yourself to try and apply that consistently. It sickens me to see people shitting on either side just because they dont like that person when it is clear they don't really give a flying fuck who is at fault. Agreed. Thread/situation could use more objectivity. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On April 05 2018 22:28 NoRegreT_ wrote: This was back when we still had a positive relationship I was willing to send you an excess monitor we had despite not being obligated to do so, As time went on our relationship got worse and you refused to fix any issues we had unresolved including the $12,000 USD you kept from the mathcherino we joint supported. At this point I no longer felt it to be reasonable to send you something I wasn't obligated to do. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/0Wl0Ysn.png) This probably needs to be added to the OP. Also this $12,000 USD kept from the joint supported mathcherino is very very interesting. | ||
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Shinryus
Germany13 Posts
On April 05 2018 21:53 Scarlett` wrote: Me and other players were never notified of this '10% tax'; and as far as I know has not happened up until now (me, sortof, dns, etc) have played in his tournaments since the beginning of december First of all, I'm sorry to hear that. That sucks. Secondly, can you tell if any of you did receive less money than you should have? Or is is just an existent rule that hasn't been used so far? On April 05 2018 23:15 KGssv2 wrote: For all the people saying 'the players were never notified'...thats not exactly how contract law works. The online tournaments have rules and the 10% penalty/tax (whatever you want to call it) was part of the terms and conditions. By competing in the tournament, they are taken to have read the rules and agreed. It does not matter that the players elected not to read the rules or assumed the rules would not change. Save for any vitiating factors, if you sign a contract without reading it, you are bound. You could, however, argue that since the 10% penalty clause could be regarded as an 'unusual' contract term, more should have been done to bring them to the affected players' attention. Don't agree with that. I mean, yes, ofc BTTV is allowed to update/change their rules now and then. Preeeeetty sure they need to inform their players that there has been a change made though. They don't need to state what has been changed, it's up to the players to reread the rules, yes. But if they had never been notified about any kind of change at all (that's how I understand it happened), then you can't just expect the players to read your rules all over again every single time before they play in any tournament. Facebook also informs you every time they update e.g. their data protection regulations or something. If you don't read them, yes, it's your fault if there's something you don't like. But they can't just do whatever they want without letting you know that there have been changes. And if so, that's unbelievably unprofessional. I still don't know much about the money issue itself and though I don't want to care too much about it, I still have a question. Maybe I've been completely misinformed but I thought BTTV sponsored the house in the beginning? Wouldn't that mean that whatever money they put into that project was an investment for them and the profit they'd make was establishing their brand any further? What I mean is, if they sponsored the house, then why would they want the money back? Again, I might be misinformed, I admit I haven't followed that stuff much. I'd be very thankful if someone could clear that up for me. Other than that, I'm not taking any sides, simply because I don't know enough about the situation and I still think it shouldn't be this public at all. I just don't want the players to be punished for something that's not their fault. I hope this issue can be settled soon without too much drama and in a way that's acceptable for anyone involved. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23570 Posts
On April 06 2018 01:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote: This probably needs to be added to the OP. Also this $12,000 USD kept from the joint supported mathcherino is very very interesting. Linked to it, seems fair since I also linked to Rifkin's screenshot response to Scarlett. | ||
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dinwitt
United States3 Posts
On April 06 2018 01:08 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I always wondered what was being done with that matcherino money, there was quite a bit of it. I don't recall exactly, but there was a meeting on discord between everyone that backed at the end of September/beginning of October. Rifkin goes into the conclusion of that in their stream on October 9th. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/180953633?t=05h00m50s | ||
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
Anyways, never liked him, and now even less. | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On April 06 2018 01:28 LongShot27 wrote: While rifkin handles things in a far from elegant manner (one could say shitposting manner) he is 100% in the right here. The "tax" as everyone calls it is a shitty way to do it, but this could have been as simple as shipping the equipment back to him at his expense and everything would have been fine. You owe the guy 1500 bucks, pay up. He doesn't have to do anything, if Rifkin was that worried about his equipment, let him fly to Korea and get it himself. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
I'm all for informing people of what is happening but it should be in an organise way, no need to make this uglier then it need to be. | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On April 06 2018 01:40 showstealer1829 wrote: He doesn't have to do anything, if Rifkin was that worried about his equipment, let him fly to Korea and get it himself. See there's this thing about contracts, you legally have to do what they say. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15869 Posts
On April 05 2018 23:14 Musicus wrote: I don't think anybody should be siding with Rifkin or Jake as well. That's between them and does not involve us. But I think it's fine to side with the players who are uninvolved and ended up being punished for (imo) no valid reason. If it wasn't for that I would never have posted about this whole thing, which I've known about for months since it was discussed on Dankshrine. Once you target innocent players, I think it's normal for the community to show "outrage" and fight for the players. Rifkin just wants his money back (In case Noregret actually owes him money). How else should he get it back? The players aren't completely uninvolved as they're living in Jake's house. If they don't like that they can choose to not live there anymore. If Jake feels his players shouldn't be punished for his mistakes he can compensate that. I really don't see the problem with this if Rifkin is saying the truth. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
And NoRegreT's decision to go public with this is pretty shitty too. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
But, that said, I don't really understand a couple things here. Primarily, wtf gives bttv the right to "tax" the winnings of the players in the house? That sounds absurd on multiple levels. Furthermore, it seems to me that the majority of the "team house" setup was put together on a basis of good will. So, if it's not in a contract... just let it go? And if it is in a contract, then there should be no issue, because it is in a contract - so ... there would be no debate here. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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