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neverexpand
16 Posts
On March 14 2018 13:35 pvsnp wrote: BW balance: The only difference is that SC2 balance issues are directly addressed by the balance team, for better or worse. Right, and that's how it should be by now. We'd get a stable game and more interesting maps. The poorly kept secret is that Blizzard keeps rebalancing the game around their own map pools. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 14 2018 14:05 neverexpand wrote: Right, and that's how it should be by now. We'd get a stable game and more interesting maps. The poorly kept secret is that Blizzard keeps rebalancing the game around their own map pools. Maybe. But maybe we'd still be in GomTvT. Hard to say. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On March 14 2018 11:32 xongnox wrote: I'm kinda agnostic on the dropverlord change, but hearing toss players screaming about an "unscoutable tricky" all-in is delicious  I feel like the real issues in early Z all-ins is queens, either coming by drop or nydus. Queens are incredibly strong early game, with some transfuses they are the best early game units for price. It's balanced by being a very slow and defensive unit... until invincible nydus or un-killable transfused drop bring them to your base. So if i were in charge of balance i would let the T1 drop but nerf the queens drop cargo and the invincible nydus. Invincible nydus leads to "incredible" play like at IEM, with the in-your-face beetween-your-gates play, witch has no counter-play at all (except blindly going for a counter BO, lol). Every mechanism totally breaking defender advantage early-game should have clear weakness and counter-play, else it is logically OP. The most incredible is how zergs players abuse so little of theses powerful earlygame plays. (on ladder and in pro games). When T/P have early-game OP shit, they abuse it so much and so good in no time .... so it get nerfed fast. Nyndus is just too expensive not to be used as all-in. 300gas just for 1 worm ! In the man time protoss can warp everywhere for 200mineral and recall for free. And yeah you are again of those asking for deleting one of the rare agressive options of zerg... Like zerg should be stuck to only defend the first 6-7mins. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
- leave drops as they are but - increase queen cargo size to 2 max for 1 dropalord. - remove Nydus invincibility but increase its armour to 3 (to prevent pure worker kills) - reduce hallucinations cost to 75 to allow faster scouts for protoss. That would diversify protoss openings. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
I don't want to mass raven in order to fight mass air.But i also don't want to mass vikings in order to fight mass air either. | ||
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bObA
France300 Posts
I remember for example the first time we saw oracles, terrans said that was unbalanced, and that was for many many weeks and then we found a way. I could give you tons of examples like this. And in the opposite side they nerfed reapers because unbalanced, when only Byun knew how to use them. So now I really appreciate Blizzard team doesn't removev an upgrade they have just added in the game. And with the latest results, that clearly doesn't show that is unbalanced, terrans lost in every single major tournaments, and the only one who knows to use this well, Maru, lost at IEM and is in semi final of Gsl. | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary457 Posts
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SCHWARZENEGGER
206 Posts
On March 14 2018 18:42 kajtarp wrote: So did i understand right, they are keeping the Droperlord nerf, while they leave AA missile as it is ? How is that fair for zergs? you wanna say that AA missile is auto win vs zerg? | ||
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WaesumNinja
210 Posts
On March 14 2018 17:02 insitelol wrote: Ok how about this: - leave drops as they are but - increase queen cargo size to 2 max for 1 dropalord. - remove Nydus invincibility but increase its armour to 3 (to prevent pure worker kills) - reduce hallucinations cost to 75 to allow faster scouts for protoss. That would diversify protoss openings. I agree. Don't nerf drops, buff protoss early game scouting instead. Maybe it would make alternatives to SG openings more popular as well. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15866 Posts
On March 14 2018 18:42 kajtarp wrote: So did i understand right, they are keeping the Droperlord nerf, while they leave AA missile as it is ? How is that fair for zergs? Look how Zergs are performing currently and how terrans are performing, then you will understand | ||
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EESCLuna
Spain53 Posts
Make zerg allins more risky on the economical side and i think protosses will be ok to the midgame. | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary457 Posts
On March 14 2018 19:09 Charoisaur wrote: Look how Zergs are performing currently and how terrans are performing, then you will understand No i won't. Seeker missiles were always like a cancer to watch, and the AA missile is not much different so i agree with Blizzard here. It's sad they got afraid because terrans cried a river. Maru is just doing fine. TY in his usual slump he has every year at least once, and Innovation got overconfident (you could see he was 100% sure he will roflstomp his GSL group and didn't really put much effort). None of this is balance issue. | ||
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LRObot
United States153 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On March 14 2018 20:18 LRObot wrote: Zerg logic: Win 7 tournaments in a row. No Terran in the finals for any of them. Balance is fine. Terran deserves nerfs but Zerg doesn't. Exactly this. When Terran start to dominate all tournaments like Zerg does now then I agree that Raven much be changed. Until that happens Ravens are perfectly fine. If pro players can not manage to dominate tournaments with something then it is balanced by defination. If Ravens were too strong we would see it in tournament results. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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kajtarp
Hungary457 Posts
As i see currently each race has some good players, (Inno Maru TY alive, Stats Classic hero sOs, Rogue Dark soO Solar) and whoever is in good shape goes into the final stages of tournaments. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On March 14 2018 05:36 Freeborn wrote: Terran whine is too sour even for the dev team to stomach... A bit pathetic. It's pretty sure that the nerf will come a bit later though, since it's just bad design and as they emphasized AGAIN it's supposed to be a fricking SUPPORT not mass damage dealer. But okay let's appease the vulgar terran crybaby masses... the hilarious thing is that 95% of those who cried about the announced mass-raven lategame nerf dont actually play that style, cuz it s too hard to take that many bases and tech up that much. But based on principle, that they hysterically oppose any nerf because it actually f-in works, they ve done it. Unless you re at GM level, you re not seeing mass raven lategame, period. Im Masters with zergs, and seen mass ravens on ladder maybe once. This would have been a change that affects the tournaments, and I for one, dont cherish the ideas that Terran are incentivized to turtle and mass ravens/raven energy. Until now it wasnt so popular, maybe terrans considered it a waste of practice-time, since the announcement of the nerf came out, but i think we re gonna see a lot of mass ravens by high level pro Terrans. For the record, I also dislike the mass spore+mass infestor style that dominates the ZvP meta right now. Gonna offrace more after the drop nerf is implemented, that s for sure. | ||
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Aiobhill
Germany283 Posts
On March 14 2018 21:24 Geo.Rion wrote: the hilarious thing is that 95% of those who cried about the announced mass-raven lategame nerf dont actually play that style, cuz it s too hard to take that many bases and tech up that much. To add more highly unscientific numbers, 90% of forum dwellers are unaffected by balance decisions and they aren't targeted by balance decisions. But many people are viewers as well and mass Raven bullshit is unwatcherablererererer than BL/Infestor. Even if it doesn't affect you as a player, viewing 'unbalanced' is a possibly even bigger turn-off. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On March 14 2018 21:42 Aiobhill wrote: To add more highly unscientific numbers, 90% of forum dwellers are unaffected by balance decisions and they aren't targeted by balance decisions. But many people are viewers as well and mass Raven bullshit is unwatcherablererererer than BL/Infestor. Even if it doesn't affect you as a player, viewing 'unbalanced' is a possibly even bigger turn-off. yes, that s kinda what i said with the second part of my post. But i dont think you re right with the player base being unaffected by most balance changes. If a change is targeted to address cheese-strats/ allins, then it most definitely affects the common players, as low Master and plat-dia players (which is the majority of active ladder players) cuz at this level you re either at that rank because u know how to allin or how to defend allins. Ultra lategame/ mechanical changes dont affect most of them/most of us. | ||
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TW
Poland255 Posts
Seems like this can have major impact on Stats vs Soo. | ||
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