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On March 18 2018 22:01 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2018 19:42 ihatevideogames wrote:
Are we really still talking about Ravens, when the first terran tournament win in months comes from a bio/tank push and 2 consecutive games of cheese? This thread is still about the proposed/withdrawn Raven changes, so yeah. If u want to cry about how underpowered Terran is because it could only win the Bo7 grandfinals for 200k$ with certain strat, find the appropriate thread
And recent tournaments clearly show that Ravens aren't nearly as oppresive as people made them out to be, so the balance team considering removing them from the game so fast was wrong in the first place.
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On March 18 2018 22:13 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2018 22:01 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 18 2018 19:42 ihatevideogames wrote:
Are we really still talking about Ravens, when the first terran tournament win in months comes from a bio/tank push and 2 consecutive games of cheese? This thread is still about the proposed/withdrawn Raven changes, so yeah. If u want to cry about how underpowered Terran is because it could only win the Bo7 grandfinals for 200k$ with certain strat, find the appropriate thread LOL. Zerg tears bc Dark made dealing with ravens look easy. Game 1 was really bad to watch tho. But its crystal clear that the problem is on both sides. Any matchup where both players have incentive not to attacknl is bad.. but the early game helped set that up. Rest of the games were relatively entertaining but im not a big fan of mech v z myself.
That s exactly what im saying.
But it s funny how salty terrans are that Maru won, not that most of them are discouraged to still cry "underpowered" as TL and reddit has shown today.
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On March 18 2018 22:20 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2018 22:13 DomeGetta wrote:On March 18 2018 22:01 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 18 2018 19:42 ihatevideogames wrote:
Are we really still talking about Ravens, when the first terran tournament win in months comes from a bio/tank push and 2 consecutive games of cheese? This thread is still about the proposed/withdrawn Raven changes, so yeah. If u want to cry about how underpowered Terran is because it could only win the Bo7 grandfinals for 200k$ with certain strat, find the appropriate thread LOL. Zerg tears bc Dark made dealing with ravens look easy. Game 1 was really bad to watch tho. But its crystal clear that the problem is on both sides. Any matchup where both players have incentive not to attacknl is bad.. but the early game helped set that up. Rest of the games were relatively entertaining but im not a big fan of mech v z myself. That s exactly what im saying. But it s funny how salty terrans are that Maru won, not that most of them are discouraged to still cry "underpowered" as TL and reddit has shown today.
Yah you can't necessarily dismiss that though - he did win - but he was getting handled - and resigned to all in cheese the last 2 games - dark scouts better or opens pool first either game and he wins. The macro games Dark was dominating pretty hard outside of the Marine/Tank game - not that that means Z OP Dark is a fucking monster - but it's still pretty clear to me that the original proposed patch would be crippling to Terran at this point.
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On March 18 2018 22:30 DomeGetta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2018 22:20 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 18 2018 22:13 DomeGetta wrote:On March 18 2018 22:01 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 18 2018 19:42 ihatevideogames wrote:
Are we really still talking about Ravens, when the first terran tournament win in months comes from a bio/tank push and 2 consecutive games of cheese? This thread is still about the proposed/withdrawn Raven changes, so yeah. If u want to cry about how underpowered Terran is because it could only win the Bo7 grandfinals for 200k$ with certain strat, find the appropriate thread LOL. Zerg tears bc Dark made dealing with ravens look easy. Game 1 was really bad to watch tho. But its crystal clear that the problem is on both sides. Any matchup where both players have incentive not to attacknl is bad.. but the early game helped set that up. Rest of the games were relatively entertaining but im not a big fan of mech v z myself. That s exactly what im saying. But it s funny how salty terrans are that Maru won, not that most of them are discouraged to still cry "underpowered" as TL and reddit has shown today. Yah you can't necessarily dismiss that though - he did win - but he was getting handled - and resigned to all in cheese the last 2 games - dark scouts better or opens pool first either game and he wins. The macro games Dark was dominating pretty hard outside of the Marine/Tank game - not that that means Z OP Dark is a fucking monster - but it's still pretty clear to me that the original proposed patch would be crippling to Terran at this point.
Do you make the same argument when a top Zerg eliminates a top Protoss in a close series, with resorting to ravager allins or lingfloods?
Cuz i seem to recall a number of series that went this way. Is that a testimony to Zerg being the underdog in the PVZ matchup?
Sure, if Dark goes pool first he probably wins. But then again, if in one of those macro wins, he went pool first, he could have lost. It s just unfair to ignore these wins. Dark is so crazy in macrogames cuz when he goes macro mode, he s greedy and most of the time gets away with it. Maru probably studied the shit out of Dark s playstyle, builds and scouting patterns, seeing as he s going up against him in the GSL semis + he was the only top korean Zerg present at this tournament.
Havent seen a winner s interview, if there is one, please link it, but i dont think Maru cheesed out of desperation.
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On March 18 2018 22:46 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2018 22:30 DomeGetta wrote:On March 18 2018 22:20 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 18 2018 22:13 DomeGetta wrote:On March 18 2018 22:01 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 18 2018 19:42 ihatevideogames wrote:
Are we really still talking about Ravens, when the first terran tournament win in months comes from a bio/tank push and 2 consecutive games of cheese? This thread is still about the proposed/withdrawn Raven changes, so yeah. If u want to cry about how underpowered Terran is because it could only win the Bo7 grandfinals for 200k$ with certain strat, find the appropriate thread LOL. Zerg tears bc Dark made dealing with ravens look easy. Game 1 was really bad to watch tho. But its crystal clear that the problem is on both sides. Any matchup where both players have incentive not to attacknl is bad.. but the early game helped set that up. Rest of the games were relatively entertaining but im not a big fan of mech v z myself. That s exactly what im saying. But it s funny how salty terrans are that Maru won, not that most of them are discouraged to still cry "underpowered" as TL and reddit has shown today. Yah you can't necessarily dismiss that though - he did win - but he was getting handled - and resigned to all in cheese the last 2 games - dark scouts better or opens pool first either game and he wins. The macro games Dark was dominating pretty hard outside of the Marine/Tank game - not that that means Z OP Dark is a fucking monster - but it's still pretty clear to me that the original proposed patch would be crippling to Terran at this point. Do you make the same argument when a top Zerg eliminates a top Protoss in a close series, with resorting to ravager allins or lingfloods? Cuz i seem to recall a number of series that went this way. Is that a testimony to Zerg being the underdog in the PVZ matchup? Sure, if Dark goes pool first he probably wins. But then again, if in one of those macro wins, he went pool first, he could have lost. It s just unfair to ignore these wins. Dark is so crazy in macrogames cuz when he goes macro mode, he s greedy and most of the time gets away with it. Maru probably studied the shit out of Dark s playstyle, builds and scouting patterns, seeing as he s going up against him in the GSL semis + he was the only top korean Zerg present at this tournament. Havent seen a winner s interview, if there is one, please link it, but i dont think Maru cheesed out of desperation.
Yah it doesn't look like they did any winner interviews - no idea why - list of things that were not ideal imo about how this tourny was put together. I'm sure Maru did study Dark - but back to back proxy in games 6 and 7 I would be shocked if was pre-planned - if his other stuff was working I gotta believe he woulda went with it. Either way I think we agree - Spectator stand point - Raven (among a number of Zerg and Protoss units) not so great - but balance stand point necessary at this point without some other big changes.
And yeah tbh - I tend to keep consistent logic in my thought process - same applies in Zvp - again not saying Tvz matchup is broken - just saying still feels slightly skewed toward Z which isnt horrible because the game is never totally balanced - but it does make it the wrong time to heavily nerf either side.
On a more positive note - how sick is it that we get to watch a rematch of this in 5 days! All whines considered - pretty great time for SC2 imo.
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On March 18 2018 06:06 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2018 05:50 RoflStomped wrote:On March 18 2018 05:32 Charoisaur wrote:On March 18 2018 00:36 RoflStomped wrote:On March 17 2018 23:35 DSh1 wrote:
Still, like I am sure other people mentioned the Raven missilie has to go. It's just bad to play and watch massing ravens. If Blizzard provide an effective alternative then I agree, No viking hp buff at any amount will achieve that. +200 viking HP wouldn't achieve that? Constructive conversation as always. okay, replace 200 with 20-50.
Revelation + tempest + storm will always kill any amount of viking with any amount of HP.
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On March 18 2018 22:46 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2018 22:30 DomeGetta wrote:On March 18 2018 22:20 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 18 2018 22:13 DomeGetta wrote:On March 18 2018 22:01 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 18 2018 19:42 ihatevideogames wrote:
Are we really still talking about Ravens, when the first terran tournament win in months comes from a bio/tank push and 2 consecutive games of cheese? This thread is still about the proposed/withdrawn Raven changes, so yeah. If u want to cry about how underpowered Terran is because it could only win the Bo7 grandfinals for 200k$ with certain strat, find the appropriate thread LOL. Zerg tears bc Dark made dealing with ravens look easy. Game 1 was really bad to watch tho. But its crystal clear that the problem is on both sides. Any matchup where both players have incentive not to attacknl is bad.. but the early game helped set that up. Rest of the games were relatively entertaining but im not a big fan of mech v z myself. That s exactly what im saying. But it s funny how salty terrans are that Maru won, not that most of them are discouraged to still cry "underpowered" as TL and reddit has shown today. Yah you can't necessarily dismiss that though - he did win - but he was getting handled - and resigned to all in cheese the last 2 games - dark scouts better or opens pool first either game and he wins. The macro games Dark was dominating pretty hard outside of the Marine/Tank game - not that that means Z OP Dark is a fucking monster - but it's still pretty clear to me that the original proposed patch would be crippling to Terran at this point. Do you make the same argument when a top Zerg eliminates a top Protoss in a close series, with resorting to ravager allins or lingfloods? Cuz i seem to recall a number of series that went this way. Is that a testimony to Zerg being the underdog in the PVZ matchup? Sure, if Dark goes pool first he probably wins. But then again, if in one of those macro wins, he went pool first, he could have lost. It s just unfair to ignore these wins. Dark is so crazy in macrogames cuz when he goes macro mode, he s greedy and most of the time gets away with it. Maru probably studied the shit out of Dark s playstyle, builds and scouting patterns, seeing as he s going up against him in the GSL semis + he was the only top korean Zerg present at this tournament. Havent seen a winner s interview, if there is one, please link it, but i dont think Maru cheesed out of desperation.
dark used to play pool first often in the past and it's not putting zerg behind that much to be a reason for losing a macro game, maru used at least whole 5 different builds in tvz at wesg, can't remember such diversity since hots, he clearly just tried to be as unpredictable as possible so thats why he went for 2 proxy in a row, nobody play 2 proxy rax even in a single set in lotv, dark just got mindgamed hard.
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blizzard needs to leave the raven missile alone. Zerg and toss have aoe casters, so should terran. Zerg/toss aoe casters deal substantially more damage on their own than the raven and those casters can be massed substantially faster than the raven. Zerg players need to learn how to split vs the raven missile just like terran players split vs banelings or parasitic bomb or storm. There should be zero double standards here when it comes to balance. From a spectator standpoint, the
raven is no different than storms, fungals or parasitic bombs(o yeah, zerg has 2 casters). It's completely fine. Leave the raven alone.
Leave the raven alone and get the whiners a muzzle.
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On March 18 2018 23:51 ReachTheSky wrote:
blizzard needs to leave the raven missile alone. Zerg and toss have aoe casters, so should terran. Zerg/toss aoe casters deal substantially more damage on their own than the raven and those casters can be massed substantially faster than the raven. Zerg players need to learn how to split vs the raven missile just like terran players split vs banelings or parasitic bomb or storm. There should be zero double standards here when it comes to balance. From a spectator standpoint, the
raven is no different than storms, fungals or parasitic bombs(o yeah, zerg has 2 casters). It's completely fine. Leave the raven alone.
Leave the raven alone and get the whiners a muzzle.
You sound like if one race has something, the other races need something of the same kind. Game design is not that simple. Terran units are the most efficient in terms of DPS per resource and what they lack is not another tool to deal damage. Now what makes the Raven broken is that there's zero direct counter play. The best example should probably be HoTS force fields, except missiles have no counter play even in the late game and they trade energy for 50 army supply at a time. Sure you need to have good early/mid game to get to Raven, but it should not be an auto-win once you get there. Terran being underpowered also has nothing to do with this particular spell. There are many good ways to buff Terran; raven missile is not one of them.
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On March 19 2018 02:02 yangluphil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2018 23:51 ReachTheSky wrote:
blizzard needs to leave the raven missile alone. Zerg and toss have aoe casters, so should terran. Zerg/toss aoe casters deal substantially more damage on their own than the raven and those casters can be massed substantially faster than the raven. Zerg players need to learn how to split vs the raven missile just like terran players split vs banelings or parasitic bomb or storm. There should be zero double standards here when it comes to balance. From a spectator standpoint, the
raven is no different than storms, fungals or parasitic bombs(o yeah, zerg has 2 casters). It's completely fine. Leave the raven alone.
Leave the raven alone and get the whiners a muzzle. You sound like if one race has something, the other races need something of the same kind. Game design is not that simple. Terran units are the most efficient in terms of DPS per resource and what they lack is not another tool to deal damage. Now what makes the Raven broken is that there's zero direct counter play. The best example should probably be HoTS force fields, except missiles have no counter play even in the late game and they trade energy for 50 army supply at a time. Sure you need to have good early/mid game to get to Raven, but it should not be an auto-win once you get there. Terran being underpowered also has nothing to do with this particular spell. There are many good ways to buff Terran; raven missile is not one of them.
I'd say what dark did counts as counter play. The most recent TvZ matches have shown mass ravens absolutely destroyed by parasitic bomb, we going to now say that has no counter play?
It's a dried up old argument that doesn't have any legs. I Think the AAM needs a tweak but to say there is no counter play couldn't be further from the truth.
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On March 19 2018 02:12 RoflStomped wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 02:02 yangluphil wrote:On March 18 2018 23:51 ReachTheSky wrote:
blizzard needs to leave the raven missile alone. Zerg and toss have aoe casters, so should terran. Zerg/toss aoe casters deal substantially more damage on their own than the raven and those casters can be massed substantially faster than the raven. Zerg players need to learn how to split vs the raven missile just like terran players split vs banelings or parasitic bomb or storm. There should be zero double standards here when it comes to balance. From a spectator standpoint, the
raven is no different than storms, fungals or parasitic bombs(o yeah, zerg has 2 casters). It's completely fine. Leave the raven alone.
Leave the raven alone and get the whiners a muzzle. You sound like if one race has something, the other races need something of the same kind. Game design is not that simple. Terran units are the most efficient in terms of DPS per resource and what they lack is not another tool to deal damage. Now what makes the Raven broken is that there's zero direct counter play. The best example should probably be HoTS force fields, except missiles have no counter play even in the late game and they trade energy for 50 army supply at a time. Sure you need to have good early/mid game to get to Raven, but it should not be an auto-win once you get there. Terran being underpowered also has nothing to do with this particular spell. There are many good ways to buff Terran; raven missile is not one of them. I'd say what dark did counts as counter play. The most recent TvZ matches have shown mass ravens absolutely destroyed by parasitic bomb, we going to now say that has no counter play? It's a dried up old argument that doesn't have any legs. I Think the AAM needs a tweak but to say there is no counter play couldn't be further from the truth.
Read again: zero 'direct' counter play. In G1 Dark had a massive advantage leading the game towards a stage where he could do contain Maru on 5 bases and won (barely, as he also mined out and depleted his own bank). The other two games that Dark won was more due to fortune or Maru's own mistake than the contain strategy.
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On March 19 2018 02:32 yangluphil wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 02:12 RoflStomped wrote:On March 19 2018 02:02 yangluphil wrote:On March 18 2018 23:51 ReachTheSky wrote:
blizzard needs to leave the raven missile alone. Zerg and toss have aoe casters, so should terran. Zerg/toss aoe casters deal substantially more damage on their own than the raven and those casters can be massed substantially faster than the raven. Zerg players need to learn how to split vs the raven missile just like terran players split vs banelings or parasitic bomb or storm. There should be zero double standards here when it comes to balance. From a spectator standpoint, the
raven is no different than storms, fungals or parasitic bombs(o yeah, zerg has 2 casters). It's completely fine. Leave the raven alone.
Leave the raven alone and get the whiners a muzzle. You sound like if one race has something, the other races need something of the same kind. Game design is not that simple. Terran units are the most efficient in terms of DPS per resource and what they lack is not another tool to deal damage. Now what makes the Raven broken is that there's zero direct counter play. The best example should probably be HoTS force fields, except missiles have no counter play even in the late game and they trade energy for 50 army supply at a time. Sure you need to have good early/mid game to get to Raven, but it should not be an auto-win once you get there. Terran being underpowered also has nothing to do with this particular spell. There are many good ways to buff Terran; raven missile is not one of them. I'd say what dark did counts as counter play. The most recent TvZ matches have shown mass ravens absolutely destroyed by parasitic bomb, we going to now say that has no counter play? It's a dried up old argument that doesn't have any legs. I Think the AAM needs a tweak but to say there is no counter play couldn't be further from the truth. Read again: zero 'direct' counter play. In G1 Dark had a massive advantage leading the game towards a stage where he could do contain Maru on 5 bases and won (barely, as he also mined out and depleted his own bank). The other two games that Dark won was more due to fortune or Maru's own mistake than the contain strategy.
And Maru v Serral Game 3? they were both even in income and supply and Serral completely annihilated Maru's air army and that game was on even footing. Losing 40 supply in a few seconds. I still don't see your point.
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I have to say: the Maru v. Dark series is evidnece that between players of comparable skill, parasitic bomb can completely annihilate mass ravens.
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On March 19 2018 02:02 yangluphil wrote:
You sound like if one race has something, the other races need something of the same kind. Game design is not that simple. Terran units are the most efficient in terms of DPS per resource and what they lack is not another tool to deal damage. Now what makes the Raven broken is that there's zero direct counter play. The best example should probably be HoTS force fields, except missiles have no counter play even in the late game and they trade energy for 50 army supply at a time. Sure you need to have good early/mid game to get to Raven, but it should not be an auto-win once you get there. Terran being underpowered also has nothing to do with this particular spell. There are many good ways to buff Terran; raven missile is not one of them.
I see your point completely. I do think we need the 1 second seeker missile delay so that there's time to split.
I also think storm should be delayed by 1 second, and fungal and parasitic bomb should be delayed by one second.
However, much of what you write is straight-up not true. Banelings are the proven most DPS unit per resource in the game. No direct counterplay to ravens - > Just two fungals, or two parasitic bombs. Dark did it.
Also, the biggest evidence is this: try playing the strat you consider OP yourself. See if you can even get there without dying. And then see if you can actually pull of the micro you object to.
When I have complaints about Protoss and Zerg, I offrace and see if I can imitate the thing I'm complaining about. Usually I'm wrong - I can't do it. Sometimes I'm right, and it is indeed OP.
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On March 17 2018 23:35 DSh1 wrote:
Still, like I am sure other people mentioned the Raven missilie has to go. It's just bad to play and watch massing ravens.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you claiming that you actally have the skill as a Terran player to survive the early and mid-game against Protoss and Zerg AND manage to perfectly micro ghosts, marauders, vikings, ravens, tanks, marines, and medivacs without any mis-steps?
"Bad to play" my foot. "Insanely difficult to play" would be better.
"Bad to watch" really? Would you rather watch ling-floods and zealot-archon boringness?
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On March 19 2018 02:43 RoflStomped wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 02:32 yangluphil wrote:On March 19 2018 02:12 RoflStomped wrote:On March 19 2018 02:02 yangluphil wrote:On March 18 2018 23:51 ReachTheSky wrote:
blizzard needs to leave the raven missile alone. Zerg and toss have aoe casters, so should terran. Zerg/toss aoe casters deal substantially more damage on their own than the raven and those casters can be massed substantially faster than the raven. Zerg players need to learn how to split vs the raven missile just like terran players split vs banelings or parasitic bomb or storm. There should be zero double standards here when it comes to balance. From a spectator standpoint, the
raven is no different than storms, fungals or parasitic bombs(o yeah, zerg has 2 casters). It's completely fine. Leave the raven alone.
Leave the raven alone and get the whiners a muzzle. You sound like if one race has something, the other races need something of the same kind. Game design is not that simple. Terran units are the most efficient in terms of DPS per resource and what they lack is not another tool to deal damage. Now what makes the Raven broken is that there's zero direct counter play. The best example should probably be HoTS force fields, except missiles have no counter play even in the late game and they trade energy for 50 army supply at a time. Sure you need to have good early/mid game to get to Raven, but it should not be an auto-win once you get there. Terran being underpowered also has nothing to do with this particular spell. There are many good ways to buff Terran; raven missile is not one of them. I'd say what dark did counts as counter play. The most recent TvZ matches have shown mass ravens absolutely destroyed by parasitic bomb, we going to now say that has no counter play? It's a dried up old argument that doesn't have any legs. I Think the AAM needs a tweak but to say there is no counter play couldn't be further from the truth. Read again: zero 'direct' counter play. In G1 Dark had a massive advantage leading the game towards a stage where he could do contain Maru on 5 bases and won (barely, as he also mined out and depleted his own bank). The other two games that Dark won was more due to fortune or Maru's own mistake than the contain strategy. And Maru v Serral Game 3? they were both even in income and supply and Serral completely annihilated Maru's air army and that game was on even footing. Losing 40 supply in a few seconds. I still don't see your point.
I thought Maru grouped up all his ravens on purpose to kill them off as a BM move. It looked to me as that game 3 was almost all BM from Maru. How many nukes did he waste? Why did he continouosly group up the ravens after they got PB'd? It all looked like Maru intended for the marine switch to happen.
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On March 19 2018 03:03 KR_4EVR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2018 02:02 yangluphil wrote:
You sound like if one race has something, the other races need something of the same kind. Game design is not that simple. Terran units are the most efficient in terms of DPS per resource and what they lack is not another tool to deal damage. Now what makes the Raven broken is that there's zero direct counter play. The best example should probably be HoTS force fields, except missiles have no counter play even in the late game and they trade energy for 50 army supply at a time. Sure you need to have good early/mid game to get to Raven, but it should not be an auto-win once you get there. Terran being underpowered also has nothing to do with this particular spell. There are many good ways to buff Terran; raven missile is not one of them. I see your point completely. I do think we need the 1 second seeker missile delay so that there's time to split. I also think storm should be delayed by 1 second, and fungal and parasitic bomb should be delayed by one second. However, much of what you write is straight-up not true. Banelings are the proven most DPS unit per resource in the game. No direct counterplay to ravens - > Just two fungals, or two parasitic bombs. Dark did it. Also, the biggest evidence is this: try playing the strat you consider OP yourself. See if you can even get there without dying. And then see if you can actually pull of the micro you object to. When I have complaints about Protoss and Zerg, I offrace and see if I can imitate the thing I'm complaining about. Usually I'm wrong - I can't do it. Sometimes I'm right, and it is indeed OP.
I was saying Terran as a race have units that deal highest DPS per resource among races. My bad for not making it more clear.
Parasitic bomb has a range of 8 while AAM has a range of 10. Can you show me a clip where maru did not mis-position his vikings and got his mass ravens annihilated by parasitic bombs? Because I hope you don't show me the end of G5 where Maru's ravens got destroyed by PB when he was already down to 100 supply and typed GG 1 second after. I did say Dark won the other 2 games on luck and Maru's mistake. For example G5 where after Maru holds, he expands on two locations without getting his army in position to defend them, meanwhile Dark just attacked the same expansion twice in a row (completely failed the first time and then Maru repositioned his army). Everything else including ravens fell apart in that fight. Let's not use a misplay to justify the point we are making here.
As for 'biggest evidence', that is not a serious argument, is it?
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Way too much balance whine after a nailbiting 4-3 victory for Maru that owed a lot to luck, Dark's scouting, and SCV RNG–Dark would've won the last game and the series if the SCV didn't move to the other side.
TvZ in its current form is well balanced, as demonstrated by Maru vs Dark, Aligulac for the past few months, and recent tournaments. Anyone balance whining about that matchup is just being salty, or stupid, or both. While I agree that AAM is poorly designed, it is nonetheless balanced.
The matchups with real balance problems are PvZ (which Blizzard already addressed) and PvT (which is just Terran allins).
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On March 19 2018 04:47 pvsnp wrote:
The matchups with real balance problems are PvZ (which Blizzard already addressed) and PvT (which is just Terran allins).
Moving back dropperlords doesn't instantly solve all of the PvZ issues. The best case scenario is it lets Protoss open with something other than Stargate without the risk of an instant build order loss which could let Protoss players figure out a build that helps mitigate the glaring mid and lategame issues in the matchup. That solution if it even exists would likely be an all-in or timing attack which would then become the one required opening.
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On March 17 2018 21:08 bObA wrote:
And atm all the best terrans : Gumiho, Innovation, Byun, Ty are losing and not doing well in tournaments.
Only Maru is succeeding.
So talking about nerfing ravens because one player is using them well is non sense.
That is good Blizzard backed off with that nerf.
Anyway Serral shew us Zerg can use mass Vipers and Infestors and be as deadly as Ravens in late game.
The game was balanced but Maru played a bit better and also Serral is a foreigner.
In any matchups Koreans are almost better than foreigners.
That was what I said.
I have just watched the first game between Maru and Dark and even with mass ravens Dark killed Maru easily.
No need to nerf Ravens.
And guess what, to avoid ravens missile damage, Dark was doing simple moves what all terrans have been learning for 10 years to be in Master league : splitting and spreading units !
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EPT
