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On March 14 2018 05:36 Freeborn wrote:
Terran whine is too sour even for the dev team to stomach...
A bit pathetic.
It's pretty sure that the nerf will come a bit later though, since it's just bad design and as they emphasized AGAIN it's supposed to be a fricking SUPPORT not mass damage dealer.
But okay let's appease the vulgar terran crybaby masses...
The irony
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On March 14 2018 05:15 Fran_ wrote:
I agree on the Raven line of thought. I just hope they don't only make midgame more powerful for T, but address late game.
The raven is late-game. Terran lategame is completely fine (imo op thx to ravens but whatever).
The main TvP problem is the 3-4 base stage and the transition to the real lategame.
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On March 14 2018 05:36 Freeborn wrote:
Terran whine is too sour even for the dev team to stomach...
A bit pathetic.
It's pretty sure that the nerf will come a bit later though, since it's just bad design and as they emphasized AGAIN it's supposed to be a fricking SUPPORT not mass damage dealer.
But okay let's appease the vulgar terran crybaby masses...
You should read this part again,it's my favourite one.
We’ve received a lot of feedback about the changes we announced recently, and we’d like to take an opportunity to address some of them now. But first, though, a quick note about behavior on our forums: we appreciate how passionate and invested you are in StarCraft II’s future, but it’s crucial that we all remain respectful of one another. We all want the same thing—to make StarCraft II as great as it can possibly be. Remember to play nice and play fair.
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One unit no one is talking about is the colossus. It was made into an anti-light unit to help against ling/bane/hydra, but just wasn't good enough to make it in high level PvZ (sure Probe plays colossus almost exclusively, and some players like Neeb dabbled with it at one point, but it isn't played at the highest level). However in PvT it's so good against marines that it (and other things such as chrono-ed upgrades) have forced terrans into 2 base all-inning all the time. And with terrans going for 2 base all-ins, you don't go for colossus. So the colossus is paradoxically too strong, and not played at all...
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On March 14 2018 04:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2018 04:41 hiroshOne wrote:
They should not nerf droperlords. Just buff Protoss early game scouting options, as not defending droperlords is the oroblem but scouting this strategy without Stargate opening. I proposed earlier lowering the energy cost of hallucination from sentry. That way, Protoss could choose not to build Stargate, but go for example robo or sth different than Stargate. This proposal would improve Protoss openings, scouting and not limit options for Zerg.
Raven nerf will come, sooner or later, as it's cancer unit in its current form. If u all need more games to see it, so be it. But the nerf is unavoidable imo. Is it possible to hold a 16 ling drop while opening robo even if you scout it early? It's not just a scouting problem.
As you tried 2 SB per bases ?
I mean it's 400mineral like 16lings, i've never tried it so feel free to explain me why it doesn't work if you have already tried it, but i feel like with your probes healed by SB + a few units it's holdable.
As zerg i build spores sometimes blindly, and a spores are more expensive than SB, i see toss complaining about the all-in but they usually play without SB.
Sure aligulac stats show imbalance but at kor level ZvP is pretty close of 50% and just recently Stats 2-0 Rogue.
Aligulac is biased and overrates EU on Zerg, and then you have :
Serral best player of the world or that is supposed to beat classic 3-2 while he has lost 3-0.
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On March 14 2018 05:36 Freeborn wrote:
Terran whine is too sour even for the dev team to stomach...
A bit pathetic.
It's pretty sure that the nerf will come a bit later though, since it's just bad design and as they emphasized AGAIN it's supposed to be a fricking SUPPORT not mass damage dealer.
But okay let's appease the vulgar terran crybaby masses...
part of a free flowing creative process includes flip flopping on opinions
give Blizzard some creative space to do their thing.
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And the whiners win...
Mass Raven is terrible for the game, they should have gone through with the nerf and experimented more with sufficient viking changes.
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On March 14 2018 06:35 Charoisaur wrote:
And the whiners win...
Or the whiners lost, depending on the viewpoint 
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On March 14 2018 06:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
One unit no one is talking about is the colossus. It was made into an anti-light unit to help against ling/bane/hydra, but just wasn't good enough to make it in high level PvZ (sure Probe plays colossus almost exclusively, and some players like Neeb dabbled with it at one point, but it isn't played at the highest level). However in PvT it's so good against marines that it (and other things such as chrono-ed upgrades) have forced terrans into 2 base all-inning all the time. And with terrans going for 2 base all-ins, you don't go for colossus. So the colossus is paradoxically too strong, and not played at all...
During the balance talk at the foreigner team house a collossus revert was the change everyone agreed on.
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On March 14 2018 06:38 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2018 06:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
One unit no one is talking about is the colossus. It was made into an anti-light unit to help against ling/bane/hydra, but just wasn't good enough to make it in high level PvZ (sure Probe plays colossus almost exclusively, and some players like Neeb dabbled with it at one point, but it isn't played at the highest level). However in PvT it's so good against marines that it (and other things such as chrono-ed upgrades) have forced terrans into 2 base all-inning all the time. And with terrans going for 2 base all-ins, you don't go for colossus. So the colossus is paradoxically too strong, and not played at all... During the balance talk at the foreigner team house a collossus revert was the change everyone agreed on.
Do you have a link to that discussion?
Also i thought Protoss stopped with Robo into Colossus builds because it got hard countered by one raven?
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On March 14 2018 05:36 Freeborn wrote:
Terran whine is too sour even for the dev team to stomach...
A bit pathetic.
It's pretty sure that the nerf will come a bit later though, since it's just bad design and as they emphasized AGAIN it's supposed to be a fricking SUPPORT not mass damage dealer.
But okay let's appease the vulgar terran crybaby masses...
Why is it ok for zerg and protoss to have insane AOE damage spellcasters but not terran(even though 1 raven missile only tickles, but 1 storm or parasitic bomb will deal 95% of most units' hp)? The double standard needs to stop.
On a side note, It would be nice if blizzard reduced the research time for blue flame from 79 seconds to 60 seconds as well as reducing the cost from 150/150 minerals/gas to 100/100 minerals/gas. I think this would be a nice change that would provide terran with some more variety when sculpting builds as well as make for some exciting early/mid game plays from a spectator perspective. The research time and cost feels too long/expensive in comparison to the added bonus blue flame gives since they nerfed the damage of it awhile back. I think the damage it does is balanced, just lower the research time and cost.
Also, Terran activity and winrates are at an all time low since patch 4.0. In major tournaments, terran isn't performing all that well even though terran players are extremely good mechanically. When it comes to ladder, 40% of gm in EU and NA is zerg. On NA, zerg makes up 50% of the top 120 gm(this includes random non-zerg off-server pros playing on NA for whatever reason). I'm not saying nerf zerg, zerg loves their toys and I think they should have their toys. Lets buff terran starting with my proposed blue flame change. Keep the raven as is, the other races have their high damage dealing spellcasters like storms and parasitic bombs, terran should have one too. All races should have one and there should be no double standards when it comes to balance and the decision making process when making balance changes.
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On March 14 2018 07:08 ReachTheSky wrote:
On a side note, It would be nice if blizzard reduced the research time for blue flame from 79 seconds to 60 seconds as well as reducing the cost from 150/150 minerals/gas to 100/100 minerals/gas. I think this would be a nice change that would provide terran with some more variety when sculpting builds as well as make for some exciting early/mid game plays from a spectator perspective. The research time and cost feels too long/expensive in comparison to the added bonus blue flame gives since they nerfed the damage of it awhile back. I think the damage it does is balanced, just lower the research time and cost.
i'd prefer they kept the Blue Flame upgrade's time and resource cost high.. and instead increased its power from +5 up to something higher like +7 or more.
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Patching the Raven out of the game and removing all Terran chances in the lategame by extension because of a single tournament that the Raven wasn't even played that much in is a huge stretch, no matter how you spin it.
Yeah, current Raven is bullshit, but untill they come up with a real solution to Terran lategame, it needs to stay.
inb4 toss and zergs dare to complain, may I to remind you:
Broken Adepts in the game for months before being patched.
15 range 4 supply Tempests making lategame even more of a joke than it is now, in the game for over a year.
8 armor Ultras in the game for over a fucking year.
Liberator anti-air patched after 1 tournament, literally lasted for 2 weeks.
AAM was about to be patched after 1 tournament where it was used in 2-3 games.
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On March 14 2018 07:08 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2018 05:36 Freeborn wrote:
Terran whine is too sour even for the dev team to stomach...
A bit pathetic.
It's pretty sure that the nerf will come a bit later though, since it's just bad design and as they emphasized AGAIN it's supposed to be a fricking SUPPORT not mass damage dealer.
But okay let's appease the vulgar terran crybaby masses... Why is it ok for zerg and protoss to have insane AOE damage spellcasters but not terran(even though 1 raven missile only tickles, but 1 storm or parasitic bomb will deal 95% of most units' hp)? The double standard needs to stop. On a side note, It would be nice if blizzard reduced the research time for blue flame from 79 seconds to 60 seconds as well as reducing the cost from 150/150 minerals/gas to 100/100 minerals/gas. I think this would be a nice change that would provide terran with some more variety when sculpting builds as well as make for some exciting early/mid game plays from a spectator perspective. The research time and cost feels too long/expensive in comparison to the added bonus blue flame gives since they nerfed the damage of it awhile back. I think the damage it does is balanced, just lower the research time and cost.
I just wonder when and where did u saw that one funghal is takin all the hp from units besides marines or lings? Try to kill Liberators or Carriers or Broodlords with funghals. U just can't. But guess what can- Ravens.
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On March 14 2018 04:27 Vutalisk wrote:
Of course BZ will do anything to make sure Z will never win anything ever again after a single Z AKA Rogue managed to win BC and IEM back to back. God forbids soO is gonna win GSL and they will nerf Z back to stone age. Without overlord drop, the P and T just wall off and turtle up for days then go for greed. That will encourage "variety of builds" for sure. P goes stargate these days not just for defensive purposes but also before of map control. Don't just blame that on overlord drop.
In what world is an opponent turtling something that a Zerg player complains about? Just double or even triple expand and murder them with a mid-game push.
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On March 14 2018 07:30 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2018 07:08 ReachTheSky wrote:On March 14 2018 05:36 Freeborn wrote:
Terran whine is too sour even for the dev team to stomach...
A bit pathetic.
It's pretty sure that the nerf will come a bit later though, since it's just bad design and as they emphasized AGAIN it's supposed to be a fricking SUPPORT not mass damage dealer.
But okay let's appease the vulgar terran crybaby masses... Why is it ok for zerg and protoss to have insane AOE damage spellcasters but not terran(even though 1 raven missile only tickles, but 1 storm or parasitic bomb will deal 95% of most units' hp)? The double standard needs to stop. On a side note, It would be nice if blizzard reduced the research time for blue flame from 79 seconds to 60 seconds as well as reducing the cost from 150/150 minerals/gas to 100/100 minerals/gas. I think this would be a nice change that would provide terran with some more variety when sculpting builds as well as make for some exciting early/mid game plays from a spectator perspective. The research time and cost feels too long/expensive in comparison to the added bonus blue flame gives since they nerfed the damage of it awhile back. I think the damage it does is balanced, just lower the research time and cost. I just wonder when and where did u saw that one funghal is takin all the hp from units besides marines or lings? Try to kill Liberators or Carriers or Broodlords with funghals. U just can't. But guess what can- Ravens.
Infestors also have infested terran, which is very effective against carriers or broods. One infestor at full energy beats a carrier in a h2h fight I think.
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I think what I'm reading is that after this GSL season they're going to try something different, and hopefully more dramatic for Terran than a 10HP Viking buff. The planned Raven change was acceptable, and like a few others here I would prefer something that would accentuate Terran strengths (mid game buff) or even something that added a new avenue of aggression (Blue Flame buff of some kind) rather than leaving the Raven as-is in the long term.
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On March 14 2018 07:19 ihatevideogames wrote:
Patching the Raven out of the game and removing all Terran chances in the lategame by extension because of a single tournament that the Raven wasn't even played that much in is a huge stretch, no matter how you spin it.
you got the price for so far the biggest exaggeration. TvZ lategame was totally winnable without the raven and no not only TY and Maru where able to pull that off.
On March 14 2018 07:19 ihatevideogames wrote:
Yeah, current Raven is bullshit, but untill they come up with a real solution to Terran lategame, it needs to stay.
inb4 toss and zergs dare to complain, may I to remind you:
Broken Adepts in the game for months before being patched.
15 range 4 supply Tempests making lategame even more of a joke than it is now, in the game for over a year.
8 armor Ultras in the game for over a fucking year.
Liberator anti-air patched after 1 tournament, literally lasted for 2 weeks.
AAM was about to be patched after 1 tournament where it was used in 2-3 games.
This is such a childish attitude. *REEEE your BS was so much longer in the Game, that's unfair!!!11*
In 80% of my games i play as Terran and i don't want to rely on AAM spam to win a game vs Protoss so hopefully blizzard will nerf the Raven as soon as possible and obviously buff Terran accordingly. When i want to play with a huge dethball of spellcasters and airunits I switch to Protoss or Zerg, i don't need a third race with the same mechanic,I like Terran because the race is so different in this aspect.
If you're only interested in your Win rates and MMR and not in fun and diverse gameplay, please go ahead and use some hacks, I heard Beasty's Red-Dot-hack is pretty good.
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Are they really that oblivious to the fact that Terran have no viable late game and thus have to all in most of the time? This is the source of the problem here. Without ravens, Terran can't compete in the late game. That viking buff is so irrelevant that it can't even be considered as a band-aid solution as it doesn't fix anything. Like I said in the other thread, the best solution would've been to make the damage component of AAM be unstackable, and that would've achieved their intended goals of the spell.
If they don't want Ravens to be the core of late game Terran, how about buffing BCs, who are laughably weak for a T3 unit.
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On March 14 2018 08:08 ilikeredheads wrote:
Like I said in the other thread, the best solution would've been to make the damage component of AAM be unstackable, and that would've achieved their intended goals of the spell.
If they don't want Ravens to be the core of late game Terran, how about buffing BCs, who are laughably weak for a T3 unit.
i agree, i like the idea of making the Anti-Air Missile unstackable.
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EPT
