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It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?
On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.
Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces!
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I feel like this whole process does more bad than good for the competition.
I mean it s super cool to see the mind games and the personal picks and all that, and it certainly must be amazing for those who follow it and are invested in the players at a personal level, but i think the vast majority of fans just want to see the games, and possibly learn a thing or two. I dont think i overreach if i say that most fans want to see as many non mirror MU-s as possible, and the best players making it the farthest. So the semifinals and finals should be the highest level of SC2 possible.
Now as is, the process heavily incentivizes quite the opposite, especially the swap mechanic.
As a participant, it is in your best interest to try to make your rivals fall due to unfavorable matchups, hard opponents and unfavorable group composition in general
Furthermore, it s in everyone s personal best interest to assure NOT to have a 3 race group, so you dont have to prepare for 3 matchups.
And to be sure, 0 of the 4 groups have all 3 of the races, ended up with a full Porotoss group, from which let s say the 2 best PvPers make it out (or who knows given the volatility of mirrors) but probably not the best overall protosses.
We have 4 zergs, and very likely only one will make it through, quite possibly eliminating another zerg in the final match of the group.
I think we would get a lot less mirror MUs, if it was a simpler seeding process.
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On February 02 2018 17:58 Veluvian wrote:
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?
On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.
Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces!
It's happened before. In 2014 Season 1 there was an all-Protoss group, 2012 Season 5 an all-Zerg group, and I'm pretty sure that there were a few all terran groups in 2011.
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On February 02 2018 18:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 17:58 Veluvian wrote:
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?
On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.
Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces! It's happened before. In 2014 Season 1 there was an all-Protoss group, 2012 Season 5 an all-Zerg group, and I'm pretty sure that there were a few all terran groups in 2011.
actually went back to check, only found 1 with 4 Ts. ofc there were a lot of 3 Terran groups in 2011-2012
 2011 Global StarCraft II League October/Code S
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On February 02 2018 18:31 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 18:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 02 2018 17:58 Veluvian wrote:
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?
On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.
Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces! It's happened before. In 2014 Season 1 there was an all-Protoss group, 2012 Season 5 an all-Zerg group, and I'm pretty sure that there were a few all terran groups in 2011. actually went back to check, only found 1 with 4 Ts. ofc there were a lot of 3 Terran groups in 2011-2012 2011 Global StarCraft II League October/Code S
There's also Group B in GSL May.
2011 LG Cinema 3D Global StarCraft II League May/Code S
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On February 01 2018 09:53 Fango wrote:Inno has such an easy route to the ro4. Only maybe Dark can stop him? But then Dark would have to get 2nd in his group (unlikely) Group B seems like the closest but the matches look quite straight forward. soO can't ZvT and TY can't TvDark edit: ez bracket ![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/57fd103c3508141a9289e0d1040321b2.png)
The thing I like when people does this is that you can realize which players wiki pages have you opened and which not
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Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles..
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On February 02 2018 18:43 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 18:31 Geo.Rion wrote:On February 02 2018 18:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On February 02 2018 17:58 Veluvian wrote:
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?
On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.
Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces! It's happened before. In 2014 Season 1 there was an all-Protoss group, 2012 Season 5 an all-Zerg group, and I'm pretty sure that there were a few all terran groups in 2011. actually went back to check, only found 1 with 4 Ts. ofc there were a lot of 3 Terran groups in 2011-2012 2011 Global StarCraft II League October/Code S There's also Group B in GSL May. http://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2011_LG_Cinema_3D_Global_StarCraft_II_League_May/Code_S
there was also the 2013 WCS all-T group, but that's technically OSL 2013 WCS Season 2 Korea OSL/Premier
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On February 02 2018 17:58 Veluvian wrote:
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?
On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.
Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces!
Maru's main weakness is his TvT though, in case his PvT will be stellar he can advance from the first place(I don't think Classic will lose his match against Gumi) or 2nd if Dear eliminates Gumi  It's kinda funny - he needs both P players to have their PvT good enough to win against Gumi but bad enough to not win against Maru
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On February 02 2018 18:06 Geo.Rion wrote:
I feel like this whole process does more bad than good for the competition.
I mean it s super cool to see the mind games and the personal picks and all that, and it certainly must be amazing for those who follow it and are invested in the players at a personal level, but i think the vast majority of fans just want to see the games, and possibly learn a thing or two. I dont think i overreach if i say that most fans want to see as many non mirror MU-s as possible, and the best players making it the farthest. So the semifinals and finals should be the highest level of SC2 possible.
Now as is, the process heavily incentivizes quite the opposite, especially the swap mechanic.
As a participant, it is in your best interest to try to make your rivals fall due to unfavorable matchups, hard opponents and unfavorable group composition in general
Furthermore, it s in everyone s personal best interest to assure NOT to have a 3 race group, so you dont have to prepare for 3 matchups.
And to be sure, 0 of the 4 groups have all 3 of the races, ended up with a full Porotoss group, from which let s say the 2 best PvPers make it out (or who knows given the volatility of mirrors) but probably not the best overall protosses.
We have 4 zergs, and very likely only one will make it through, quite possibly eliminating another zerg in the final match of the group.
I think we would get a lot less mirror MUs, if it was a simpler seeding process.
It is only the swap mechanic that makes the process not favouring the best games. Everyone wants to win, which makes them pick players that they think they'll win vs. The first ones that get to choose are the 4 top seeded players, the ones who should be best. The last ones to be picked are the best of the non-seeded players. Each group will have one top seed (best in official matches) and one percieved great player (the last pick). Each group will also have one of the 4 easiest opponents (first pick). This means that each group has 2 top players and 1 bottom player + 1 other player. A drawing process would not make a better group. It would be too hard to make a structure that ensures this result and still allow chance to play a part.
It is not in every player's best interest to have as few races as possible in their group. Many players think it's easier to have a few builds and strategies per match up instead of training only one match up and needing 8 builds to not be countered in the long run.
You said that most fans want to 1) see the best players advance and 2) see non-mirror matches.
With that in mind, I don't understand what you mean about the zergs. Either they are not the best players and get eliminated or they play a mirror game eliminating 1 and ensuring more race variety in the next stage.
To get rid of mirrors we need to race discriminate instead of skill discriminate. Instead of seeding the best players we would need to seed races. This would downplay one third of the current match ups. I think that is a terrible idea. We should not tell TvT specialist that their best match up is worth less and should only be a focus in the latest stages of play or in team leagues. Ryung, who had sub 50% wins in non TvT, but had more than 50% wins vs Maru, TY, INno, FlaSh etc. in 2015. Maru had 90% in TvT at the time (every loss was vs Ryung), TY had about 85%.
Another thing to consider is what would happen in the zerg dominated eu region. If group stages spread all the zerg players as good as possible, more zergs would advance to later stages. This means that we would get almost all zerg after group stages. Non-zergs would almost always play vs zerg, eliminating TvP, TvT and PvP. I would not like to watch only half of the possible match ups (TvZ, PvZ and ZvZ).
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On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles..
In bo5 he's actually unbeatable
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On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles..
He doesn't struggle in Bo7 either, when it's not a final.
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On February 02 2018 22:40 DBooN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles.. He doesn't struggle in Bo7 either, when it's not a final.
Are there bo7 games outside finals?
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On February 02 2018 22:43 kajtarp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 22:40 DBooN wrote:On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles.. He doesn't struggle in Bo7 either, when it's not a final. Are there bo7 games outside finals?
yes, every gsl ro4 for last 5 years
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Stop hating on Stats. Stats wins this GSL AGAIN. Mark THY WORDS.
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On February 02 2018 22:45 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 22:43 kajtarp wrote:On February 02 2018 22:40 DBooN wrote:On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles.. He doesn't struggle in Bo7 either, when it's not a final. Are there bo7 games outside finals? yes, every gsl ro4 for last 5 years
Not in 2013 season 3 because Blizzard forced them to change 
Bo7 semis master race
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On February 02 2018 22:45 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 22:43 kajtarp wrote:On February 02 2018 22:40 DBooN wrote:On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles.. He doesn't struggle in Bo7 either, when it's not a final. Are there bo7 games outside finals? yes, every gsl ro4 for last 5 years
Oh yes, you are right. How could i forgot? /facepalm.
Still remember that glorious 4-0 win over Classic.
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On February 02 2018 23:08 Jimmon wrote:
Stop hating on Stats. Stats wins this GSL AGAIN. Mark THY WORDS.
GSL 2? Sure. He's not looking great right now though
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On February 02 2018 18:06 Geo.Rion wrote:
I feel like this whole process does more bad than good for the competition.
I mean it s super cool to see the mind games and the personal picks and all that, and it certainly must be amazing for those who follow it and are invested in the players at a personal level, but i think the vast majority of fans just want to see the games, and possibly learn a thing or two. I dont think i overreach if i say that most fans want to see as many non mirror MU-s as possible, and the best players making it the farthest. So the semifinals and finals should be the highest level of SC2 possible.
Now as is, the process heavily incentivizes quite the opposite, especially the swap mechanic.
As a participant, it is in your best interest to try to make your rivals fall due to unfavorable matchups, hard opponents and unfavorable group composition in general
Furthermore, it s in everyone s personal best interest to assure NOT to have a 3 race group, so you dont have to prepare for 3 matchups.
And to be sure, 0 of the 4 groups have all 3 of the races, ended up with a full Porotoss group, from which let s say the 2 best PvPers make it out (or who knows given the volatility of mirrors) but probably not the best overall protosses.
We have 4 zergs, and very likely only one will make it through, quite possibly eliminating another zerg in the final match of the group.
I think we would get a lot less mirror MUs, if it was a simpler seeding process.
I see what you mean, but more mirrors now mean fewer later, most likely. And Protoss assumed the plurality in this ro16. It's a bummer that we may not see herO advance to stomp face in later rounds, however.
Maru is so dead :|
maru is vapor. He did not look too great at all in ro32. Part of me wishes Byun were here instead. Though i wish both were in better form. RIP.
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EPT
