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Making the Grade: Code S Group Nominations - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
87 CommentsPost a Reply
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Veluvian
Profile Joined December 2011
Bulgaria256 Posts
February 02 2018 08:58 GMT
#61
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?

On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.

Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces!
Oz; MMA; Rain; sOs; Classic, Soulkey, TY, Dark
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-02 09:07:17
February 02 2018 09:06 GMT
#62
I feel like this whole process does more bad than good for the competition.
I mean it s super cool to see the mind games and the personal picks and all that, and it certainly must be amazing for those who follow it and are invested in the players at a personal level, but i think the vast majority of fans just want to see the games, and possibly learn a thing or two. I dont think i overreach if i say that most fans want to see as many non mirror MU-s as possible, and the best players making it the farthest. So the semifinals and finals should be the highest level of SC2 possible.

Now as is, the process heavily incentivizes quite the opposite, especially the swap mechanic.

As a participant, it is in your best interest to try to make your rivals fall due to unfavorable matchups, hard opponents and unfavorable group composition in general

Furthermore, it s in everyone s personal best interest to assure NOT to have a 3 race group, so you dont have to prepare for 3 matchups.

And to be sure, 0 of the 4 groups have all 3 of the races, ended up with a full Porotoss group, from which let s say the 2 best PvPers make it out (or who knows given the volatility of mirrors) but probably not the best overall protosses.

We have 4 zergs, and very likely only one will make it through, quite possibly eliminating another zerg in the final match of the group.

I think we would get a lot less mirror MUs, if it was a simpler seeding process.
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
February 02 2018 09:21 GMT
#63
On February 02 2018 17:58 Veluvian wrote:
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?

On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.

Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces!


It's happened before. In 2014 Season 1 there was an all-Protoss group, 2012 Season 5 an all-Zerg group, and I'm pretty sure that there were a few all terran groups in 2011.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
February 02 2018 09:31 GMT
#64
On February 02 2018 18:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2018 17:58 Veluvian wrote:
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?

On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.

Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces!


It's happened before. In 2014 Season 1 there was an all-Protoss group, 2012 Season 5 an all-Zerg group, and I'm pretty sure that there were a few all terran groups in 2011.

actually went back to check, only found 1 with 4 Ts. ofc there were a lot of 3 Terran groups in 2011-2012
(Wiki)2011 Global StarCraft II League October/Code S
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
February 02 2018 09:43 GMT
#65
On February 02 2018 18:31 Geo.Rion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2018 18:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On February 02 2018 17:58 Veluvian wrote:
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?

On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.

Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces!


It's happened before. In 2014 Season 1 there was an all-Protoss group, 2012 Season 5 an all-Zerg group, and I'm pretty sure that there were a few all terran groups in 2011.

actually went back to check, only found 1 with 4 Ts. ofc there were a lot of 3 Terran groups in 2011-2012
(Wiki)2011 Global StarCraft II League October/Code S


There's also Group B in GSL May.

(Wiki)2011 LG Cinema 3D Global StarCraft II League May/Code S
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4906 Posts
February 02 2018 09:53 GMT
#66
On February 01 2018 09:53 Fango wrote:
Inno has such an easy route to the ro4. Only maybe Dark can stop him? But then Dark would have to get 2nd in his group (unlikely)

Group B seems like the closest but the matches look quite straight forward. soO can't ZvT and TY can't TvDark

edit: ez bracket
[image loading]



The thing I like when people does this is that you can realize which players wiki pages have you opened and which not
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
kajtarp
Profile Joined April 2011
Hungary474 Posts
February 02 2018 11:05 GMT
#67
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles..
Why so serious?
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
February 02 2018 12:06 GMT
#68
On February 02 2018 18:43 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2018 18:31 Geo.Rion wrote:
On February 02 2018 18:21 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On February 02 2018 17:58 Veluvian wrote:
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?

On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.

Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces!


It's happened before. In 2014 Season 1 there was an all-Protoss group, 2012 Season 5 an all-Zerg group, and I'm pretty sure that there were a few all terran groups in 2011.

actually went back to check, only found 1 with 4 Ts. ofc there were a lot of 3 Terran groups in 2011-2012
(Wiki)2011 Global StarCraft II League October/Code S


There's also Group B in GSL May.

http://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2011_LG_Cinema_3D_Global_StarCraft_II_League_May/Code_S

there was also the 2013 WCS all-T group, but that's technically OSL (Wiki)2013 WCS Season 2 Korea OSL/Premier
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
February 02 2018 12:08 GMT
#69
On February 02 2018 17:58 Veluvian wrote:
It is not a good thing when I see top protosses in the same group. This means that they will train mainly PvP matches for a month. Only! I think that has never happened before in the GSL history, am I right?

On a first thought I thought that the group with Dark and TY is pretty bad, but now I think that they have a huge chance of getting out. I don't think that soO's gonna make it this time. Innovation seems secured. The big question for Ro16 is: Could Scarlett surprise us all and how well is prepared Zest? Because still Zest is out of his top shape.

Group C is also clear to me. Maru is out of class right now. Classic played well but he didn't show such a self - confidence on the interview. I hope his PvT is still as it was last year - when it was actually his only strong weapon. I really want Classic to be on the top, but I am not sure he is ready yet. Dear is gonna break Maru into peaces!

Maru's main weakness is his TvT though, in case his PvT will be stellar he can advance from the first place(I don't think Classic will lose his match against Gumi) or 2nd if Dear eliminates Gumi It's kinda funny - he needs both P players to have their PvT good enough to win against Gumi but bad enough to not win against Maru
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Drfilip
Profile Joined March 2013
Sweden590 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-02 13:19:25
February 02 2018 13:17 GMT
#70
On February 02 2018 18:06 Geo.Rion wrote:
I feel like this whole process does more bad than good for the competition.
I mean it s super cool to see the mind games and the personal picks and all that, and it certainly must be amazing for those who follow it and are invested in the players at a personal level, but i think the vast majority of fans just want to see the games, and possibly learn a thing or two. I dont think i overreach if i say that most fans want to see as many non mirror MU-s as possible, and the best players making it the farthest. So the semifinals and finals should be the highest level of SC2 possible.

Now as is, the process heavily incentivizes quite the opposite, especially the swap mechanic.

As a participant, it is in your best interest to try to make your rivals fall due to unfavorable matchups, hard opponents and unfavorable group composition in general

Furthermore, it s in everyone s personal best interest to assure NOT to have a 3 race group, so you dont have to prepare for 3 matchups.

And to be sure, 0 of the 4 groups have all 3 of the races, ended up with a full Porotoss group, from which let s say the 2 best PvPers make it out (or who knows given the volatility of mirrors) but probably not the best overall protosses.

We have 4 zergs, and very likely only one will make it through, quite possibly eliminating another zerg in the final match of the group.

I think we would get a lot less mirror MUs, if it was a simpler seeding process.

It is only the swap mechanic that makes the process not favouring the best games. Everyone wants to win, which makes them pick players that they think they'll win vs. The first ones that get to choose are the 4 top seeded players, the ones who should be best. The last ones to be picked are the best of the non-seeded players. Each group will have one top seed (best in official matches) and one percieved great player (the last pick). Each group will also have one of the 4 easiest opponents (first pick). This means that each group has 2 top players and 1 bottom player + 1 other player. A drawing process would not make a better group. It would be too hard to make a structure that ensures this result and still allow chance to play a part.

It is not in every player's best interest to have as few races as possible in their group. Many players think it's easier to have a few builds and strategies per match up instead of training only one match up and needing 8 builds to not be countered in the long run.

You said that most fans want to 1) see the best players advance and 2) see non-mirror matches.
With that in mind, I don't understand what you mean about the zergs. Either they are not the best players and get eliminated or they play a mirror game eliminating 1 and ensuring more race variety in the next stage.

To get rid of mirrors we need to race discriminate instead of skill discriminate. Instead of seeding the best players we would need to seed races. This would downplay one third of the current match ups. I think that is a terrible idea. We should not tell TvT specialist that their best match up is worth less and should only be a focus in the latest stages of play or in team leagues. Ryung, who had sub 50% wins in non TvT, but had more than 50% wins vs Maru, TY, INno, FlaSh etc. in 2015. Maru had 90% in TvT at the time (every loss was vs Ryung), TY had about 85%.
Another thing to consider is what would happen in the zerg dominated eu region. If group stages spread all the zerg players as good as possible, more zergs would advance to later stages. This means that we would get almost all zerg after group stages. Non-zergs would almost always play vs zerg, eliminating TvP, TvT and PvP. I would not like to watch only half of the possible match ups (TvZ, PvZ and ZvZ).
Random Platinum EU
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15919 Posts
February 02 2018 13:19 GMT
#71
On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles..

In bo5 he's actually unbeatable
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
DBooN
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2727 Posts
February 02 2018 13:40 GMT
#72
On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles..

He doesn't struggle in Bo7 either, when it's not a final.
kajtarp
Profile Joined April 2011
Hungary474 Posts
February 02 2018 13:43 GMT
#73
On February 02 2018 22:40 DBooN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles..

He doesn't struggle in Bo7 either, when it's not a final.


Are there bo7 games outside finals?
Why so serious?
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-02 13:46:35
February 02 2018 13:45 GMT
#74
On February 02 2018 22:43 kajtarp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2018 22:40 DBooN wrote:
On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles..

He doesn't struggle in Bo7 either, when it's not a final.


Are there bo7 games outside finals?

yes, every gsl ro4 for last 5 years
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Jimmon
Profile Joined May 2011
United States112 Posts
February 02 2018 14:08 GMT
#75
Stop hating on Stats. Stats wins this GSL AGAIN. Mark THY WORDS.
I love LOveRH
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
February 02 2018 14:44 GMT
#76
On February 02 2018 22:45 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2018 22:43 kajtarp wrote:
On February 02 2018 22:40 DBooN wrote:
On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles..

He doesn't struggle in Bo7 either, when it's not a final.


Are there bo7 games outside finals?

yes, every gsl ro4 for last 5 years

Not in 2013 season 3 because Blizzard forced them to change
Bo7 semis master race
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
kajtarp
Profile Joined April 2011
Hungary474 Posts
February 02 2018 14:50 GMT
#77
On February 02 2018 22:45 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2018 22:43 kajtarp wrote:
On February 02 2018 22:40 DBooN wrote:
On February 02 2018 20:05 kajtarp wrote:
Underestimating soO can be a huge mistake guys. Remember in bo3 and bo5 he can beat anyone. Bo7 where he struggles..

He doesn't struggle in Bo7 either, when it's not a final.


Are there bo7 games outside finals?

yes, every gsl ro4 for last 5 years


Oh yes, you are right. How could i forgot? /facepalm.
Still remember that glorious 4-0 win over Classic.
Why so serious?
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13974 Posts
February 02 2018 16:46 GMT
#78
On February 02 2018 23:08 Jimmon wrote:
Stop hating on Stats. Stats wins this GSL AGAIN. Mark THY WORDS.

GSL 2? Sure. He's not looking great right now though
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
Fran_
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1024 Posts
February 02 2018 18:26 GMT
#79
Maru is so dead :|
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
2840 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-02 19:44:09
February 02 2018 19:42 GMT
#80
On February 02 2018 18:06 Geo.Rion wrote:
I feel like this whole process does more bad than good for the competition.
I mean it s super cool to see the mind games and the personal picks and all that, and it certainly must be amazing for those who follow it and are invested in the players at a personal level, but i think the vast majority of fans just want to see the games, and possibly learn a thing or two. I dont think i overreach if i say that most fans want to see as many non mirror MU-s as possible, and the best players making it the farthest. So the semifinals and finals should be the highest level of SC2 possible.

Now as is, the process heavily incentivizes quite the opposite, especially the swap mechanic.

As a participant, it is in your best interest to try to make your rivals fall due to unfavorable matchups, hard opponents and unfavorable group composition in general

Furthermore, it s in everyone s personal best interest to assure NOT to have a 3 race group, so you dont have to prepare for 3 matchups.

And to be sure, 0 of the 4 groups have all 3 of the races, ended up with a full Porotoss group, from which let s say the 2 best PvPers make it out (or who knows given the volatility of mirrors) but probably not the best overall protosses.

We have 4 zergs, and very likely only one will make it through, quite possibly eliminating another zerg in the final match of the group.

I think we would get a lot less mirror MUs, if it was a simpler seeding process.


I see what you mean, but more mirrors now mean fewer later, most likely. And Protoss assumed the plurality in this ro16. It's a bummer that we may not see herO advance to stomp face in later rounds, however.

Maru is so dead :|


maru is vapor. He did not look too great at all in ro32. Part of me wishes Byun were here instead. Though i wish both were in better form. RIP.
aka wilted_kale
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