• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:24
CEST 19:24
KST 02:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy8uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event17Serral wins EWC 202549Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments7[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
Is there a way to see if 2 accounts=1 person? #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ New season has just come in ladder StarCraft player reflex TE scores BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches KCM 2025 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI The year 2050
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 677 users

In Search of an Answer: The Dark Question

Forum Index > SC2 General
25 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 Next All

In Search of an Answer: The Dark Question

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byHushfield
January 23rd, 2018 15:21 GMT

Written by stuchiu [image loading]
Photos by leimmia [image loading]


“While being a pro-gamer my goal is to win 10 individual league titles. I’m not joking, really 10 wins.”
-Park “Dark” Ryung Woo, interview with Inven. January 14th, 2015.


(Z)Dark is facing the hardest question of his professional career. Since the release of Legacy of the Void (LotV) two years ago, he has consistently been in the conversation for best player in the world. His play has few flaws. While he doesn’t have the mechanical might of players like (Z)Life or (Z)soO in their primes, he has proved he doesn't need it. Instead, Dark relies on a dichotomy of strengths. On the one hand, Dark executes the most deadly all-ins of any Zerg player. On the other hand, he has the best late-game Zerg play in the world. An argument can be made that newly crowned WCS champion (Z)Rogue has eclipsed Dark in the late-game, but Dark has been far more consistent over the course of the last two years.

Despite all of these accolades, though, Dark has failed when judged by his own ambitions. He is only among the best players in the world—he does not stand alone. For all the respect he commands, he has but one major championship to his name. It's one of the great conundrums of modern StarCraft II that a player with no obvious flaws has not accomplished more. How can Dark ascend from being one of the best players in StarCraft II, to become THE best player?



To understand where the problem lies, we need to go back to the origins of Dark. Dark was the last ever recruit of the once-great SlayerS, a team founded by legendary Brood War progamer Lim "(T)BoxeR" Yo Hwan. In the early years of StarCraft II, SlayerS had a knack for recruiting young talent and refining them into solid pros. One of the things that separated this team from the others was BoxeR’s presence. Nicknamed the Emperor of Terran, BoxeR was the superstar player that allowed esports to establish itself as a legitimate competition in South Korea. To have success under BoxeR was to become part of the direct lineage of Korean esports royalty. Famously, (T)MMA's first nickname was the Son of Boxer before he had a falling out with the team.

Dark was different. He wanted more than to become another heir to the Emperor—he wanted to establish a dynasty of his own. Dark was largely anonymous on SlayerS, but perhaps BoxeR recognized the drive and talent inside of him. When SlayerS disbanded in late 2012, Boxer rejoined his old team SKT as a coach. A few months later, Dark joined SKT as the sole remnant of SlayerS. For the next three years, Dark grinded his way up the SKT ranks until he finally had a breakout season in 2015. That year, he reached the top four at IEM Katowice and earned two second-place finishes in KeSPA Cup Season 1 and Season 2.

In those tournaments he showed all of the strengths he has today: Strong fundamentals, good decision-making, and small, personal twists on how to play each matchup. He was willing to cheese, but also had a solid grasp of the late-game. He had a Life-like instinct for how to use counterattacks. His quirks seemed to befuddle opponents—notably, his preference for using corruptors in place of mutalisks in Zerg vs Terran. But he also had weaknesses, some which also persist to this day. He looked strong in the mid-game if he had the initiative going in, but could collapse if he ceded Protoss or Terran the mid-game advantage.

Most importantly, Dark was unable to translate his form into a strong GSL or SSL run in 2015, and he dropped out of the group stages of all six tournaments that year. He was at his best in the late-game, but the top players were consistently outplaying him in that area (whether it was Terran Mech or the Protoss deathball). Against top caliber opponents, minor problems with positioning or patience would cost Dark important games. He didn't make humongous throws like INnoVation did against Soulkey, but he appeared to lack killer instinct in high pressure matches. After all, it says something that the only final that soO ever won was against Dark.

2016 was when Dark truly hit his stride. He enjoyed the best year of his competitive career, as he won SSL Season 1, took second place in SSL Season 2, and second place again at BlizzCon. He applied his strong work ethic to learning Legacy of the Void, and acquired a superior understanding of the new expansion than his peers. He knew how to use the ravager better than any other Zerg, and developed a ling/bane into broodlord style against Protoss that won him the SSL championship. Furthermore, he tightened up his late-game in terms of army composition, economy, and patience. LotV may have given Zerg some tools to make it easier to play in the late-game, but Dark's base level of decision-making were improved from the previous year.

In 2017, Dark solidified himself as the best late-game Zerg player with his excellent decision-making and spellcaster usage. He was significantly better than other Zergs at using multiple Zerg spellcasters in the late-game, which in turn gave him better engagements, better positioning, and more leeway to execute his gameplan. However, he was unable to overcome a crucial weakness.

Back in the 2016 SSL Season 2, Dark lost 3-4 to Solar in the finals. It reflected Dark's overall ability in the Zerg mirror: he had always been very good, but never exceptional like soO since HotS, or Nestea in a bygone age. Dark played in twelve major tournaments during the 2017 season and placed top four or higher in five of them. However, in the seven tournaments where he was eliminated before the semifinals, ZvZ was the culprit on five occasions (five and a half, if you count his 0-2 ZvZ record in the SSL round robin).

When it comes to ZvZ or PvP, progamers must have a strong understanding of their opponent, the map, build-orders, and the risk-reward relationship of every strategic choice. These tenets are important in the other match-ups, but to a lesser degree. In mirrors, these key concepts can separate the best players from the ‘merely’ great. Dark falls into the latter category, which is one of his biggest weaknesses as a top tier player.

ZvZ aside, Dark found himself falling just barely short when he reached the higher rounds of tournaments in 2017. The best example of this was his 3-4 semifinals loss against (T)INnoVation in GSL Season 3 2017. All of the long macro games went INnoVation’s way, while Dark won the games that began with an all-in from either side. The series revealed Dark's inability—or perhaps refusal—to recognize his relative strengths compared to his opponent. Dark was the best late-game Zerg player, but INnoVation was an even better late-game Terran player during that period. Theoretically, Dark had two advantages he could use: his early game all-ins or his late-game mastery. INnoVation was better in both the mid-game and late-game, so the plan should have been to attack INnoVation before he got off the ground. Instead, Dark tried to play for the late-game in every game of the series, except when INnoVation was the one pushing the issue early.

Albeit, these are conclusions we reach with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, it would have been reasonable for Dark to believe that he could beat INnoVation in the late-game. One does not become a top progamer without confidence, and confidence comes with a degree of obstinance. Still, we can fault Dark for being inflexible within the micro-meta of the series. Even if he believed that he could beat INnoVation in the late-game, after so many tries, he should have realized that it was the wrong approach and adapted his overarching strategy.

Dark's 3-4 SSL finals loss against (P)Stats was another example of this weakness. Dark’s strengths are his all-ins and his late-game, but in this series he defaulted to all-ins too much. This is especially puzzling, as Dark demonstrated his late-game superiority as early as the second game of the series. Stats himself adapted in that series as he made sure to put on pressure in the mid-game, making sure he would not have to face late-game Dark.



Dark will be remembered as one of the greatest Zergs in the post KeSPA era. He is also likely to be one of the best players in the world for the foreseeable future. But long ago, before he even won his first championship, Dark already set his ambitions higher than that. He doesn’t want to be among the best, he wants to be THE best. But in order to reach that goal, he must find where he has fallen short, and find the solution to push him to the next level.

It's theoretically possible for Dark to learn to read the minds of his opponents at the level of (T)Mvp. It's theoretically possible for him to hone his mid-game mechanics to the level of soO. Progamers have shown that they are capable of incredible change, and it would be unfair to rule out that kind of improvement from Dark. But a far more feasible answer would be for him to look back to another great from the past. Dark should do what (P)Rain did from 2012-2014. Rain is the best late-game player that Protoss ever had. But the key distinction between Rain and Dark is that Rain made sure he could get to the late-game every time. He took an explicitly defensive stance, he let himself fall behind in the early and mid-game, but in exchange he got to the late-game where he was nigh unbeatable.

In essence, Dark must push himself further down the path of his own style. He has one of the most complete tool kits any player can have, but he has no true specialty when compared to the legends of StarCraft. He may be the best late-game player in the world, but he cannot force everyone to play him in that style. And even then, he can be beaten in the late-game by a player in the right form, backed by the right meta. Dark must push further to the point where no one can challenge him in the late-game, like Rain or TaeJa. That is the path to achieving his dreams.

Nearly every one of the greatest SC2 players of all time had a specialty, a playstyle, a way impose their very character and will upon the game. "This is how I play and this is how I win." How many times did we see Mvp pull out insane series after insane series win off of his intelligence, grit, and decisiveness? How many times have we seen Life’s lings find a way, a path to victory? How many players did TaeJa wear down with his indomitable decision-making in marathon games? If the goal is to be the greatest there ever was, these are the kind of expectations we must set for Dark. He must force StarCraft II to bend to his will, instead of the other way around.

Dark has won one major title, but he is still looking for a way to win nine more. He must ask himself "Can I go be more than great? Can I be the greatest?" The rest of his career will be his answer.




Credits and Acknowledgements

Writer: stuchiu
Editors: Wax
Photo: leimmia
Digital art: Hushfield
Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
StarscreamG1
Profile Joined February 2011
Portugal1653 Posts
January 23 2018 15:52 GMT
#2
I want a Dark Vs TY best of 99.
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
688 Posts
January 23 2018 16:00 GMT
#3
I've been a dark fan since I first heard of corruptor roach ling bling, many heartaches but much happiness too.

Not sure I agree that dark has weaker mechanics than soo. Maybe raw unit production but dark seems to multitask better especially in late game. Seems like rogue has the most finesse in the late game, soo makes the most units in the midgame and dark both has the deadliest early game and the best late game aggression. Idk if anybody else gets that impression but that's my read. Would like to see dark take a step back from the midgame too, rain was also a favorite player of mine!
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
React42
Profile Joined August 2017
United States12 Posts
January 23 2018 16:01 GMT
#4
Awesome writeup! Really hoping he can win a big tournament like GSL this year.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-23 16:05:08
January 23 2018 16:03 GMT
#5
Stuchiu is back. I'm confused, why is Mvp mentioned only so few times in this article?
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
January 23 2018 16:27 GMT
#6
Probably because acceptance is in progress
TL+ Member
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33397 Posts
January 23 2018 16:28 GMT
#7
On January 24 2018 01:03 Charoisaur wrote:
Stuchiu is back. I'm confused, why is Mvp mentioned only so few times in this article?


also, I could use some clarification on the state of his nervous system and its injuries
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Drfilip
Profile Joined March 2013
Sweden590 Posts
January 23 2018 16:35 GMT
#8
There are two players that I would like to win some tournaments. Just for their own sake. Dark is one of them, soO is the other. There are a lot of players that I want to see do well, but only two that I want to win. Looking at Dark's face after losing is reminiscent of seeing a widow go home after her husband's funeral. There is pain in his losses. He sometimes covers it with a smile, but he can't really hide it.
The fact that Dark has been very open with his ambitions and feelings has probably had a major impact on my feelings. Communication is key. soO's essay would have turned me if I wasn't already in his 'GSL victory for soO'-camp.
Random Platinum EU
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
688 Posts
January 23 2018 16:59 GMT
#9
Agree with Drfilip. Revive BL-infestor pls, for story's sake
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
January 23 2018 17:41 GMT
#10
The number of 2nd places and ro4 finishes Dark has acquired is pretty incredible. People would talk about it more if soO's record of almost successes wasn't so much cleaner. And even this season Dark feels like one of the best but not the best.

Good article.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-23 19:23:30
January 23 2018 19:09 GMT
#11
On January 24 2018 00:52 StarscreamG1 wrote:
I want a Dark Vs TY best of 99.


Dark would win almost every map.

Not sure I agree with saying Inno was a better lategame player that Dark during GSL. It felt like he won that series was because Dark did not expect mech or prepare for it. His response was very sloppy to it, like he wasn't sure how to engage
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
January 23 2018 19:22 GMT
#12
On January 24 2018 04:09 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2018 00:52 StarscreamG1 wrote:
I want a Dark Vs TY best of 99.


Dark would win almost every map


And it would only last as long as a Bo9 between Snute and TY.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-23 19:35:10
January 23 2018 19:31 GMT
#13
On January 24 2018 04:09 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2018 00:52 StarscreamG1 wrote:
I want a Dark Vs TY best of 99.


Dark would win almost every map.

Not sure I agree with saying Inno was a better lategame player that Dark during GSL. It felt like he won that series was because Dark did not expect mech or prepare for it. His response was very sloppy to it, like he wasn't sure how to engage

Inno said himself in the winner's interview that Dark wasn't weak to cheese (and Dark proved several times over that the exact opposite was true) but he still kept cheesing because he needed to keep Dark off-balance. It's the same reason why he tailored a brand-new mech build (double starport banshee) instead of playing standard like TY.

Dark roflstomped TY when both of them played standard, so Inno did his homework and played several completely unorthodox builds to catch Dark off guard and keep him that way. Dark even said himself in the pregame interview that Inno was strong but predictable, and Inno exploited Dark's perception of him.

Inno and Dark are very evenly matched. Just watch their series at IEM Gyeonggi, or the one from IEM Katowice, or from SSL. As Tastosis said during the broadcast, Inno was just barely able to tip the balance in his favor at the critical moments.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
January 23 2018 19:40 GMT
#14
Stuchiu is back!

That's some great news, I was a big fan of his articles back in the day.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Myrddrael
Profile Joined November 2012
United Kingdom291 Posts
January 23 2018 20:02 GMT
#15
Great article. Really hoping Dark can achieve some major success this year.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
January 23 2018 20:07 GMT
#16
Really refreshing to read something from other than Mizenhauer (not that his writeups are bad at all).

Also the one who shall not be named in the first line O.o
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
ShAd_1337
Profile Joined January 2016
Germany1042 Posts
January 23 2018 21:04 GMT
#17
Go Dark!
this year, he will win at least 1 title for sure. i say 2 !
I like Dark
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
January 23 2018 22:47 GMT
#18
if 1 of the 10 isnt a homestory cup I refuse to acknowledge him
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
January 24 2018 03:06 GMT
#19
Awww yeah. Classic Stuchiu article.
Someone call down the Thunder?
jy_9876543210
Profile Joined March 2016
265 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-24 19:44:50
January 24 2018 19:44 GMT
#20
So here comes the question:
Who had won 10 premier tournaments champions?
I checked top 20 of http://aligulac.com/earnings/ , seems that there're 2. One is Life (10), the other is Taeja (11). MVP and MMA has 9, Polt has 8. But they don't play anymore. INnoVation has 8, so he has the best chance to break the record.
Phase 1: F2    Phase 2: A   Phase 3: Profit!
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Online Event
15:00
SEL Master #5: Korea vs Russia
SteadfastSC146
MindelVK41
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .163
SteadfastSC 146
ProTech96
BRAT_OK 92
MindelVK 41
Codebar 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 2765
Shuttle 1497
Larva 564
hero 339
firebathero 296
ggaemo 275
EffOrt 257
Soma 251
Rush 172
Snow 171
[ Show more ]
Mong 160
Mind 78
Sharp 76
Bonyth 48
sSak 43
Aegong 41
Backho 23
Terrorterran 17
IntoTheRainbow 9
ivOry 2
Stormgate
TKL 122
Dota 2
Gorgc3186
qojqva2399
Dendi651
XcaliburYe89
Counter-Strike
fl0m3071
ScreaM522
oskar31
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor104
Other Games
crisheroes752
Lowko564
RotterdaM336
Beastyqt297
DeMusliM181
Fuzer 169
PiGStarcraft159
ViBE138
ArmadaUGS129
KnowMe84
QueenE57
Trikslyr56
StateSC224
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta35
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 14
• Michael_bg 5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Nemesis2549
• C_a_k_e 2018
League of Legends
• Jankos1982
• TFBlade968
Counter-Strike
• imaqtpie373
• Shiphtur185
Other Games
• WagamamaTV269
Upcoming Events
BSL Team Wars
1h 36m
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Online Event
17h 36m
SC Evo League
18h 36m
Online Event
19h 36m
OSC
19h 36m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
21h 36m
CSO Contender
23h 36m
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 16h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 17h
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
1d 18h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 21h
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Bonyth
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
2 days
RotterdaM Event
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-08-13
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.