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8751 Posts
On December 13 2017 20:50 Corvuuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 18:43 IMSupervisor wrote:On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems. In this day and age, business is very sensitive to social media feedback because perception is intrinsically linked to value. Yes it's childish but it works, and you can't blame people for pursuing behaviour that gets the results they want. The problem with boycotting something is that it can hurt associated people/business/whatever which in this case is sc2. You have to think about what can happen, if it is worth to boycott something but at the same time hurt something you like.
But the problem with being polite is that nothing changes. There's a specific circumstance and explanation for each one of these controversies, as if they're all unique and must simply be tolerated, but the fact that they keep happening indicates some kind of flaw in their policies and decision-making. If they never change because they depend on the fact that the community will be forgiving over and over again, then these issues will never stop occurring. The way these companies operate opens themselves up to these mistakes. Something fundamental needs to change. Something different has to happen in order to break the cycle and actually improve things for everyone. So yes, a boycott is adding more damage to an already damaged situation, but if nothing else has resulted in change, then it's reasonable to experiment with a different stimulus. I'm not necessarily saying some kind of boycott should be organized right now, but having seen this cycle occur countless times with nothing changing across several esports behemoths, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that people are beginning to think more drastic reactions are called for.
Remember that the goal would actually be improving things for everyone. It's the way people are currently behaving that is already hurting everyone associated with SC2.
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If you can't guarantee you will deliver said news within the timeframe you promise, better not make that promise at all.
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On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems.
Apparently IEM DQed the players instead of your so called "communicating and solving problems".
On December 13 2017 20:50 Corvuuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 18:43 IMSupervisor wrote:On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems. In this day and age, business is very sensitive to social media feedback because perception is intrinsically linked to value. Yes it's childish but it works, and you can't blame people for pursuing behaviour that gets the results they want. The problem with boycotting something is that it can hurt associated people/business/whatever which in this case is sc2. You have to think about what can happen, if it is worth to boycott something but at the same time hurt something you like.
There is not much to think. The answer is definitely a yes. Let me explain.
If you think about how law works: it always protects the rights of the individual not the benefits of the masses. Do you say it is correct to overlook that some people are murdered (sacrificed) because it is for the greater good? Of course not.
My point is: it is worth boycotting for individual rights. No amount of great things is a reason to overlook unfair treatment.
Anyways there seems to be a solution, the above was just a theoretical discourse.
More on point:
I still do not quite understand what the official reason given for DQing is. Seems kinda illegal to me.
In twitlonger it says
"All the players who want to play WESG are therefore being disqualified just in case we aren't able to make it to IEM"
I am confused how you can be disqualified for that. I can see how qualifying for IEM makes you obligated to appear there, but I can't see how you can be DQed for participating in WESG.
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On December 14 2017 02:06 DSh1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems. Apparently IEM DQed the players instead of your so called "communicating and solving problems".
Precisely. So we should be communicating and solving problems when ESL did not do proper communication and created this problem in the first place??
And look at the deafening silence. How long since Apollo claimed that a statement was coming?
Why is there nothing yet?
They can't even come up with a simple " Sorry guys, we screwed up, we will try to make this right."
Nope, not even a single apology, its like they are hoping to drag things out and hopefully people will forget about it until the next time another schedule conflict occurs and players get screwed again.
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I think they are not co-operating with each other bc they are in competition with one another. Unless a larger body like Blizzard comes in and set a schedule so that there's no conflict, I don't see why they will be willing to accommodate to one another. It is unfortunate but that's the reality. Being nice to one another is not essential for their own growth. It is sad because those who hurt the most are the pros.
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On December 13 2017 18:43 IMSupervisor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems. In this day and age, business is very sensitive to social media feedback because perception is intrinsically linked to value. Yes it's childish but it works, and you can't blame people for pursuing behaviour that gets the results they want.
Nope. It only work for a short period & it block other company from coming.
Long term consequence is: company get away more & more, and less and less new come in.
So... yeah, we definitely can blame people for pursuing behavior that are short-sighted.
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So ESL stream is not even linked in the sidebar right now? when qualifiers are going on? that's so stupid. SC2 scene always harms itself instead of pulling together
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On December 14 2017 04:18 Leviance wrote:
So ESL stream is not even linked in the sidebar right now? when qualifiers are going on? that's so stupid. SC2 scene always harms itself instead of pulling together
The person who added the event to the calendar forgot to link the stream. Happens from time to time, and unrelated to this thread.
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On December 14 2017 04:18 Leviance wrote:
So ESL stream is not even linked in the sidebar right now? when qualifiers are going on? that's so stupid. SC2 scene always harms itself instead of pulling together
Sometimes the streams don't get added to the events for one reason or another, especially when its one like ESL that is constantly running. Nothing to make a fuss about, it's already fixed
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I think this event shouldn't be on calendar if you really support the affected people. Anything else is blah blah. 
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On December 14 2017 05:34 sc-darkness wrote:I think this event shouldn't be on calendar if you really support the affected people. Anything else is blah blah.
Imma go out on a limb and say there's a 0% chance of that happening. It's still an IEM
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If you talk about the live event, they can't reschedule it easily. The organisation of such an event is a lot of work. Everything is planned months if not years ahead. For example: The place is booked at least a year ahead. Some places have waiting lists of 2-3 years.
And it doesn't end with the place. Production devices, lights, cameras, monitors, cables, hardware, workers who build everything up and a production crew for the main event. Everything is planned at least one year ahead. Such an event consists of so many parts, if you don't follow the plan, it is impossible to keep track of everything.
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Yeah let us boycott it, because they made a mistake. The next time they will think twice before they do an event for sc2. It isn't as if we are without a mistake.
It would be different if IEM insisted that they are right and that everything is fine. But they didn't act like that.
The problems have often other sources which is hidden from the consumer. Companies stay quiet, because if you explain the problem to the consumer, they will misunderstand it and the outcry will become worse. Such an event isn't done in a snap! It is organized at least one year ahead (and maybe planned two years ahead). You can't keep track of everything. Mistakes happen! and will always happen! Important part is how you handle the mistakes.
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On December 14 2017 05:58 todespolka wrote:
Yeah let us boycott it, because they made a mistake. The next time they will think twice before they do an event for sc2. It isn't as if we are without a mistake.
It would be different if IEM insisted that they are right and that everything is fine. But they didn't act like that.
The problems have often other sources which is hidden from the consumer. Companies stay quiet, because if you explain the problem to the consumer, they will misunderstand it and the outcry will become worse. Such an event isn't done in a snap! It is organized at least one year ahead (and maybe planned two years ahead). You can't keep track of everything. Mistakes happen! and will always happen! Important part is how you handle the mistakes.
That's exactly my point! And as the later part is still pending, we as SC2 community should give those responsible for the problems a good chance to solve them or otherwise apologise to the players, that are affected from their mistake.
...whoever is without sin throw the first stone...
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If Scarlett, Neeb, and special aren't playing, I actually don't have much interest in the event anyway because they are all my favorite players
I have no problem with people making mistakes (I've made plenty), but is anyone working on resolving this? I got the vibe people talked about a fix for a little but will ultimately do nothing.
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On December 14 2017 11:10 ShambhalaWar wrote:If Scarlett, Neeb, and special aren't playing, I actually don't have much interest in the event anyway because they are all my favorite players I have no problem with people making mistakes (I've made plenty), but is anyone working on resolving this? I got the vibe people talked about a fix for a little but will ultimately do nothing.
The reason they'll ultimately do nothing is because there is basically no solution that doesn't make things worse.
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PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse?
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On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse?
I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's.
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On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's.
Why would that be worse?
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qdOC2NV.jpg)
