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Due to a conflict between the dates of IEM PyeongChang and WESG North & South American Qualifier,  SpeCial,  Scarlett,  Neeb and JonSnow have all been disqualified from IEM PyeongChang. puCK also would have been disqualfied but had removed himself from the qualifier the day before due to an already scheduled flight.
This issue was only made aware to the players less than an hour before the IEM Qualifier, and has caused much discussion and outrage on reddit, TL and twitter already, especially since the IEM dates were announced long after the dates of WESG were already known. Only NonY and PengWin were available to replace them in the qualifiers
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Best admin ever !
And the players who are trying to take advantage of the situation ...
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SpeCial has been pretty salty in twitch chat and I can't really blame him though I think he's being somewhat offensive with one of the jokes he is making.
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Major also says that that the admin didn't even know about WESG NA dates or that it was an offline event until he told him 5 days ago
It was announced in August (https://en.wesg.com/en/sc2/news/starcraft-2-all-details-of-the-american-qualifiers)
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On December 12 2017 11:49 Scarlett` wrote:
Major also says that that the admin didn't even know about WESG NA dates or that it was an offline event until he told him 5 days ago
It was announced in August (https://en.wesg.com/en/sc2/news/starcraft-2-all-details-of-the-american-qualifiers)
He's posting skype logs into twitch chat now that seems to confirm this. He should maybe stop if he doesn't want to get banned from future IEMs though.
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A shitty situation, all around
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IEM PyeongChang was too good to be true, fortunately they revised the situation to make it seem more real.
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very unfortunate situation, perhaps someone a little higher up should take charge of the situation before it happens again (and again)
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I wonder if the IEM admin tried to reach out to the WESG admin and see if something can be worked out? Because they really only need one of the two events to be moved or shortened by one day for the schedule to work out.
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It looks like he just doesnt want to use his time to think about it.
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On December 12 2017 12:09 DieuCure wrote:
It looks like he just doesnt want to use his time to think about it.
Gotta get that beauty rest.
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On December 12 2017 12:08 argonautdice wrote:
I wonder if the IEM admin tried to reach out to the WESG admin and see if something can be worked out? Because they really only need one of the two events to be moved or shortened by one day for the schedule to work out.
Theoretically, as long as the WESG players don't play on day 1 of IEM, they could have made it. IEMs usually have groups spread over 2 days, which makes this decision kind of baffling since we don't know what the schedule for IEM actually is
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It's messed up how IEM and DH can keep putting in as little effort as possible and still get people in their events and get Blizzard to give them WCS status because they're all that's left. They have a near-complete stranglehold on offline SC2 events. You could probably argue that it's a monopoly because they have the same parent company. Oh well, not going to waste any of my time watching an event put on by people so careless any time soon.
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I really wish the qualifier was changed so that only 1 player of the group playing tonight got a slot. They could have held another NA qualifier, given it to another region (e.g. South Korea), or just had an open qualifier.
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it would be great if remaining people in the qualifiers boycotted... force the tournament to fix the problem or else look very silly
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On December 12 2017 12:28 Boggyb wrote:
I really wish the qualifier was changed so that only 1 player of the group playing tonight got a slot. They could have held another NA qualifier, given it to another region (e.g. South Korea), or just had an open qualifier.
It will be even more ridiculous with the 2 SA spots
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Does this mean Avilo is advacing? What a meme.
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On December 12 2017 12:31 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 12:28 Boggyb wrote:
I really wish the qualifier was changed so that only 1 player of the group playing tonight got a slot. They could have held another NA qualifier, given it to another region (e.g. South Korea), or just had an open qualifier. It will be even more ridiculous with the 2 SA spots
Yeah. The smart move from some SA players might be to pull out of the WESG Americas qualifier considering how weak the IEM qualifiers will be in comparison.
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FilthyRake is running a tournament for all the players that got dq'd. $1000 starting prize with a matcherino that's already up to $1500.
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United States97276 Posts
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- announces new event at the last minute
- dates have major conflicts with another tournament (which was announced months earlier)
- disqualifies players due to its own fuckup and lack of communication internally
what a joke.
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What a joke from ESL. Can't believe we're going to have PandaBearMe representing NA in such a big deal of an event. And there's a 99% chance they are too stubborn to fix it now.
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On December 12 2017 13:43 Fango wrote:
What a joke from ESL. Can't believe we're going to have PandaBearMe representing NA in such a big deal of an event. 99% chance they are too stubborn to fix it now.
At this point...it would be a little unfair to the players who made it through already. I mean, once you've held a qualifier, you've held the qualifier, and changing that now would screw over those who legitimately (ish) made it through. I think the IEM organizers made a massive mistake, but I wonder if we would be making this much of a fuss if the people being DQed were starkiller or PBM.
EDIT:I mean...don't get me wrong, it does suck from a viewer perspective to put someone through a qualifier into a major tournament who's probably gonna get wrecked...
EDIT2: Actually, this sucks even more because Special and Neeb (and especially Neeb) would do very well in the tournament, and with only two Koreans, they could even get ro4 or higher if Protoss Koreans made it through. That's a good like 10K+ lost because IEM forgot to look at dates.
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On December 12 2017 14:01 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 13:43 Fango wrote:
What a joke from ESL. Can't believe we're going to have PandaBearMe representing NA in such a big deal of an event. 99% chance they are too stubborn to fix it now. At this point...it would be a little unfair to the players who made it through already. I mean, once you've held a qualifier, you've held the qualifier, and changing that now would screw over those who legitimately (ish) made it through. I think the IEM organizers made a massive mistake, but I wonder if we would be making this much of a fuss if the people being DQed were starkiller or PBM.
PBM and Starkiller don't actually deserve to qualify though. I'm sure they know that as well as anyone. Unfairly DQ'ing the better players is worse than forcing lesser players to requalify.
I'm not saying they should just swap Cham and PBM for Neeb and SpeCial, but they should at least reorganize the day 2 of the qualifier to include all the them. That's the fairest way to handle it imo.
On December 12 2017 14:01 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 13:43 Fango wrote:
What a joke from ESL. Can't believe we're going to have PandaBearMe representing NA in such a big deal of an event. 99% chance they are too stubborn to fix it now. I mean...don't get me wrong, it does suck from a viewer perspective to put someone through a qualifier into a major tournament who's probably gonna get wrecked...
Unfairly DQing players is bad for the tournament from a viewer and an image persective. And in this case actual tournament quality will suffer. But it's less about the skill of the players here and more about their own rights to qualify fairly. Any error by ESL admins should fall on those that were responsible
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Man this sucks! As if NA talent didn't have it hard enough. 
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On December 12 2017 14:08 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 14:01 FrkFrJss wrote:On December 12 2017 13:43 Fango wrote:
What a joke from ESL. Can't believe we're going to have PandaBearMe representing NA in such a big deal of an event. 99% chance they are too stubborn to fix it now. At this point...it would be a little unfair to the players who made it through already. I mean, once you've held a qualifier, you've held the qualifier, and changing that now would screw over those who legitimately (ish) made it through. I think the IEM organizers made a massive mistake, but I wonder if we would be making this much of a fuss if the people being DQed were starkiller or PBM. PBM and Starkiller don't actually deserve to qualify though. I'm sure they know that as well as anyone. Unfairly DQ'ing the better players is worse than forcing lesser players to requalify. I'm not saying they should just swap Cham and PBM for Neeb and SpeCial, but they should at least reorganize the day 2 of the qualifier to include all the them. That's the fairest way to handle it imo. Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 14:01 FrkFrJss wrote:On December 12 2017 13:43 Fango wrote:
What a joke from ESL. Can't believe we're going to have PandaBearMe representing NA in such a big deal of an event. 99% chance they are too stubborn to fix it now. I mean...don't get me wrong, it does suck from a viewer perspective to put someone through a qualifier into a major tournament who's probably gonna get wrecked... Unfairly DQing players is bad for the tournament from a viewer and an image persective. And in this case actual tournament quality will suffer. But it's less about the skill of the players here and more about their own rights to qualify fairly. Any error by ESL admins should fall on those that were responsible
The thing is, my question is if it were PBM and Cham who got screwed over, and instead Neeb and Special qualified, would we be making this fuss? If it is "better to force lesser players to requalify," then that's favouritism, and we're basically saying, "because you're better, you get better treatment."
Did they really get unfairly DQed if the WESG tournament is from Feb 1-4, and IEM is from the 5-7? I think that the tournament organizers messed up by holding the IEM so close to the qualifiers.
EDIT: Ok, they probably were unfairly DQed, but it still would have been really tight for whoever qualified in the NA qualifier to play in WESG in the US on Feb 4 and then fly like 13 hours to get in on time to play Day 2 in the IEM.
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great job IEM, thats how you lose viewers!
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This whole ordeal just puts a very bad taste in my mouth... I doubt I'll be tuning in after such a debacle!
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They must do it again.
Unjustly disqualified players dont have to deal with the incompetence and ignorance of the admin in question.
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IEM/ESL should at least admit they fucked up and apologize.
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Seriously, IEM ? Fix that now !
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They are hosting a premiere event, supported by frickin IOC and even had a panel with Morhaime, Incontrol, Artosis and whatnot to talk about how amazing this tournament is. And they can't even schedule the qualifiers to avoid a crash with the only (?) other tournament happening in months, where the dates has been known since August? And the players were made aware an hour before the qualifiers took place???
Who is running this thing and what the hell are they doing? This is so fucking stupid and unprofessional.
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Looks like NA blows not only at video games, but also at admining video games.
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Wow this is such shit. Why can't they be more adaptable?
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Still no statement, excuse to players etc ...
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Pathetic. The players deserve an apology from the admin, and tournament organizers.
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China6329 Posts
I mean you only need to check Liquipedia once to know which tournament are conflicting with yours. How?
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On December 12 2017 19:02 digmouse wrote:
I mean you only need to check Liquipedia once to know which tournament are conflicting with yours. How?
I guess they knew it all along, but didnt care:
"We are (pre)Olympic, we are special, others have to adjust"
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I just want to know if IEM knew about WESG, tried to figure something out, but nothing could be done and it ended up with players having to choose. If that's the case okay, shit happens.
But if they didn't even know about WESG and the conflicting dates and didn't even contact WESG to try to figure something out... then I really lost all my faith and it's just pure incompetence.
It's so sad too, since IEM events are always cool, Katowice was great and I know they are already working on making the next Katowice even better.
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Soo unprofessional. Short notice + this. Who is in charge for the scheduling?
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if ESL doesn't give a good explanation, i wouldn't be watching any of their events anymore. Not even from other games.
I hope others do the same, can't let them get away with bs like this.
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This tourney already sucked compared to what it replaces, amazing they managed to make it even worse.
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Certainly wouldnt be the first display of gross incompetence by ESL
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On December 12 2017 20:28 Kaizor wrote:
if ESL doesn't give a good explanation, i wouldn't be watching any of their events anymore. Not even from other games.
I hope others do the same, can't let them get away with bs like this.
I'm with you. Principles are important.
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okay, I lost all faith in IEM
they NEVER talked to WESG
Edit: well let's not overreact I guess, hopefully things will turn out.
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China6329 Posts
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On December 12 2017 20:53 Musicus wrote:
okay, I lost all faith in IEM
they NEVER talked to WESG
Don't lose the faith, it's never too late! We've already talked, hopefully some good staff comes from this soon.
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What??
Why would IEM schedule its qualifier right after WESG's qualifier. Pretty sure WESG's was announced much earlier.
This makes no sense whatsoever :'(
At least WESG has decent price pool. But it sucks that these player lost a chance to play a special pre- Olympic event.
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Hey everybody, Apollo said ESL is looking into this. Let ESL look into it and see if they can come up with a solution.
This overreaction to boycotting this broadcaster, and that broadcaster is just damaging to the SC2 community. Not too long ago, people say they will boycott Rifkin. And now people are saying they will boycott IEM. And at a certain point in time, people said that about TakeTV too.
Look, you do that, and the SC2 pro scene collapses. Without BaseTradeTV, without IEM, without TakeTV, without all these organizers supporting the SC2 pro scene, there won't be a SC2 pro scene anymore. In this case, let's reserve our judgement until ESL has a chance to work it through. It's bad enough that Pro League is gone and many Korean SC2 pros either retired or quit SC2 altogether, but now we are throwing pitchforks at what's left and sadly, there isn't much left.
Outside of Korea, it's more or less IEM and Dreamhack that are the prestigious tournaments left for SC2. Boycotting IEM leaves us just with Dreamhack, lol. We don't have many choices these days. And neither do the pros. ESL and IEM leaving SC2 would be a big blow to the SC2 pro scene. So give ESL a chance to fix this.
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On December 12 2017 21:02 Alex007 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 20:53 Musicus wrote:
okay, I lost all faith in IEM
they NEVER talked to WESG Don't lose the faith, it's never too late! We've already talked, hopefully some good staff comes from this soon.
True, just an emotional overreaction! I hope IEM can turn this around!
Edit: I just don't see what can be done, since Pandabearme and Cham already qualified.
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On December 12 2017 19:02 digmouse wrote:
I mean you only need to check Liquipedia once to know which tournament are conflicting with yours. How?
I wish this was that easy as you said. I spent 10min about that and I found nothing. Maybe I am not good to find something at Liquipedia.
edit: I finally found it lol, http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Main_Page top right
edit2: thank you scarlett
edi3: I never expected to see online-qualifier events in "major - tournaments" category.
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Still no response from Apollo
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I hope they fix this sh*t. I was really hoping to see Scarlett vs Neeb playing.
LET'S GO SCARLETT!
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You are my angel; you know that right?
=)
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On December 12 2017 21:56 Icarus2 wrote:Still no response from Apollo
Well a lot probably changed since they talked with Alex and WESG.
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On December 12 2017 21:13 xelnaga_empire wrote:Hey everybody, Apollo said ESL is looking into this. Let ESL look into it and see if they can come up with a solution. This overreaction to boycotting this broadcaster, and that broadcaster is just damaging to the SC2 community. Not too long ago, people say they will boycott Rifkin. And now people are saying they will boycott IEM. And at a certain point in time, people said that about TakeTV too. Look, you do that, and the SC2 pro scene collapses. Without BaseTradeTV, without IEM, without TakeTV, without all these organizers supporting the SC2 pro scene, there won't be a SC2 pro scene anymore. In this case, let's reserve our judgement until ESL has a chance to work it through. It's bad enough that Pro League is gone and many Korean SC2 pros either retired or quit SC2 altogether, but now we are throwing pitchforks at what's left and sadly, there isn't much left. Outside of Korea, it's more or less IEM and Dreamhack that are the prestigious tournaments left for SC2. Boycotting IEM leaves us just with Dreamhack, lol. We don't have many choices these days. And neither do the pros. ESL and IEM leaving SC2 would be a big blow to the SC2 pro scene. So give ESL a chance to fix this.
This man is absolutely right. everybody please stay calm.
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It's sad but I can't say IEM is much to blame for it. Ideally, they had scheduled this around WESG, but after all it's their tournament and if you wanna participate in it, there shouldn't be any other tournaments in the way. The scheduling in itself is sad.
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It's good to see some voices of reason in this thread as well. We should cherish and support the tournaments and organisers we have left.
That being said though, I do feel like this scheduling problem is due to both poor planning and lack of flexibility on ESL/IEM's part. Everybody makes mistakes, but freezing up and stubbornly refusing to have another look at a situation often does far more damage than the initial mistake. It's unfortunate that the IEM NA qualifier was allowed to proceed at all, because now it has become a lose-lose situation where every possible path means disappointment for some of the players involved. It's a tough situation, I hope Apollo can come up with a good way to handle this.
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At this point, the only thing IEM can really do is not repeat this with the SA qualifiers. Negating last night's qualifiers after letting them proceed is worse than just apologizing and letting things stand.
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I did state that with no good explanation we should boycott viewing their events.
Which i think is completely reasonable. They are given a chance to state their case. If it is some bs they come up with, could you really justify still supporting them?
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why didnt these brainless people actually bother to ask around before deciding on the dates
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If I were Blizz I'd be seriously considering lawsuits right now. They give IEM money for this crap don't they?
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Let's wait and see what they come up with. Stop being overly dramatic.
Also what's the point on shitting on the players that actually played in the qualifiers, not their fault.
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On December 12 2017 23:23 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
If I were Blizz I'd be seriously considering lawsuits right now. They give IEM money for this crap don't they?
Oh come on, that's insane.
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Considering how they've handled things so far, it probably involves taking away a South Korean seed and giving it to NA and holding a new qualifier.
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On December 12 2017 23:40 Boggyb wrote:Considering how they've handled things so far, it probably involves taking away a South Korean seed and giving it to NA and holding a new qualifier.
No, they will replace the KR spot but instead of a qualifier it will just be a coinflip between Neeb, Special and Scarlett.
No admin available to run another qualifier 
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WESG ends on the 4th in California and IEM starts in KR on the 5th, seems like theres no way for players to get to KR in time? Wouldn't wesg have to end on the 3rd instead?
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United States97276 Posts
we were so close to that Nony hype tho
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China6329 Posts
On December 12 2017 23:23 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
If I were Blizz I'd be seriously considering lawsuits right now. They give IEM money for this crap don't they?
I wouldn't go THAT far... Things like this happen all the time, just not always this... messy.
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0 hype involved considering the circumstances
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On December 12 2017 21:13 xelnaga_empire wrote:Hey everybody, Apollo said ESL is looking into this. Let ESL look into it and see if they can come up with a solution. This overreaction to boycotting this broadcaster, and that broadcaster is just damaging to the SC2 community. Not too long ago, people say they will boycott Rifkin. And now people are saying they will boycott IEM. And at a certain point in time, people said that about TakeTV too. Look, you do that, and the SC2 pro scene collapses. Without BaseTradeTV, without IEM, without TakeTV, without all these organizers supporting the SC2 pro scene, there won't be a SC2 pro scene anymore. In this case, let's reserve our judgement until ESL has a chance to work it through. It's bad enough that Pro League is gone and many Korean SC2 pros either retired or quit SC2 altogether, but now we are throwing pitchforks at what's left and sadly, there isn't much left. Outside of Korea, it's more or less IEM and Dreamhack that are the prestigious tournaments left for SC2. Boycotting IEM leaves us just with Dreamhack, lol. We don't have many choices these days. And neither do the pros. ESL and IEM leaving SC2 would be a big blow to the SC2 pro scene. So give ESL a chance to fix this.
What you say is true. But without some kind of angry reaction from the players/comunity, there's no way ESL would have done anything in the first place.
I'm not saying people should send death threats to ESL or anything crazy. But you should at least express distaste in how they organized the event. Not complaining/doing anything is a sure way to make sure stuff like this happens again
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On December 13 2017 01:15 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2017 21:13 xelnaga_empire wrote:Hey everybody, Apollo said ESL is looking into this. Let ESL look into it and see if they can come up with a solution. This overreaction to boycotting this broadcaster, and that broadcaster is just damaging to the SC2 community. Not too long ago, people say they will boycott Rifkin. And now people are saying they will boycott IEM. And at a certain point in time, people said that about TakeTV too. Look, you do that, and the SC2 pro scene collapses. Without BaseTradeTV, without IEM, without TakeTV, without all these organizers supporting the SC2 pro scene, there won't be a SC2 pro scene anymore. In this case, let's reserve our judgement until ESL has a chance to work it through. It's bad enough that Pro League is gone and many Korean SC2 pros either retired or quit SC2 altogether, but now we are throwing pitchforks at what's left and sadly, there isn't much left. Outside of Korea, it's more or less IEM and Dreamhack that are the prestigious tournaments left for SC2. Boycotting IEM leaves us just with Dreamhack, lol. We don't have many choices these days. And neither do the pros. ESL and IEM leaving SC2 would be a big blow to the SC2 pro scene. So give ESL a chance to fix this. What you say is true. But without some kind of angry reaction from the players/comunity, there's no way ESL would have done anything in the first place. I'm not saying people should send death threats to ESL or anything crazy. But you should at least express distaste in how they organized the event. Not complaining/doing anything is a sure way to make sure stuff like this happens again
Yes, letting ESL know that you are displeased and that they need to fix the problem is one thing. Asking ESL to make sure this doesn't happen again is also reasonable. Some people in this thread were advocating boycotting IEM forever. Boycotting IEM forever is counter productive and a total loss for the SC2 community, especially if ESL is willing to find a solution to this situation.
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On December 13 2017 01:18 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 01:15 Fango wrote:On December 12 2017 21:13 xelnaga_empire wrote:Hey everybody, Apollo said ESL is looking into this. Let ESL look into it and see if they can come up with a solution. This overreaction to boycotting this broadcaster, and that broadcaster is just damaging to the SC2 community. Not too long ago, people say they will boycott Rifkin. And now people are saying they will boycott IEM. And at a certain point in time, people said that about TakeTV too. Look, you do that, and the SC2 pro scene collapses. Without BaseTradeTV, without IEM, without TakeTV, without all these organizers supporting the SC2 pro scene, there won't be a SC2 pro scene anymore. In this case, let's reserve our judgement until ESL has a chance to work it through. It's bad enough that Pro League is gone and many Korean SC2 pros either retired or quit SC2 altogether, but now we are throwing pitchforks at what's left and sadly, there isn't much left. Outside of Korea, it's more or less IEM and Dreamhack that are the prestigious tournaments left for SC2. Boycotting IEM leaves us just with Dreamhack, lol. We don't have many choices these days. And neither do the pros. ESL and IEM leaving SC2 would be a big blow to the SC2 pro scene. So give ESL a chance to fix this. What you say is true. But without some kind of angry reaction from the players/comunity, there's no way ESL would have done anything in the first place. I'm not saying people should send death threats to ESL or anything crazy. But you should at least express distaste in how they organized the event. Not complaining/doing anything is a sure way to make sure stuff like this happens again Yes, letting ESL know that you are displeased and that they need to fix the problem is one thing. Asking ESL to make sure this doesn't happen again is also reasonable. Some people in this thread were advocating boycotting IEM forever. Boycotting IEM forever is counter productive and a total loss for the SC2 community, especially if ESL is willing to find a solution to this situation.
learn to read dude. i said i will not watch anymore ESL events if they DO NOT give a good explanation.
Seriously, if they cannot come up with a good explanation or a good solution, i don't think they deserve support.
You are not going to support a lousy restaurant with poor service just because hey it's one of the last few restaurants left in your neighborhood, same logic.
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On December 13 2017 02:08 Kaizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 01:18 xelnaga_empire wrote:On December 13 2017 01:15 Fango wrote:On December 12 2017 21:13 xelnaga_empire wrote:Hey everybody, Apollo said ESL is looking into this. Let ESL look into it and see if they can come up with a solution. This overreaction to boycotting this broadcaster, and that broadcaster is just damaging to the SC2 community. Not too long ago, people say they will boycott Rifkin. And now people are saying they will boycott IEM. And at a certain point in time, people said that about TakeTV too. Look, you do that, and the SC2 pro scene collapses. Without BaseTradeTV, without IEM, without TakeTV, without all these organizers supporting the SC2 pro scene, there won't be a SC2 pro scene anymore. In this case, let's reserve our judgement until ESL has a chance to work it through. It's bad enough that Pro League is gone and many Korean SC2 pros either retired or quit SC2 altogether, but now we are throwing pitchforks at what's left and sadly, there isn't much left. Outside of Korea, it's more or less IEM and Dreamhack that are the prestigious tournaments left for SC2. Boycotting IEM leaves us just with Dreamhack, lol. We don't have many choices these days. And neither do the pros. ESL and IEM leaving SC2 would be a big blow to the SC2 pro scene. So give ESL a chance to fix this. What you say is true. But without some kind of angry reaction from the players/comunity, there's no way ESL would have done anything in the first place. I'm not saying people should send death threats to ESL or anything crazy. But you should at least express distaste in how they organized the event. Not complaining/doing anything is a sure way to make sure stuff like this happens again Yes, letting ESL know that you are displeased and that they need to fix the problem is one thing. Asking ESL to make sure this doesn't happen again is also reasonable. Some people in this thread were advocating boycotting IEM forever. Boycotting IEM forever is counter productive and a total loss for the SC2 community, especially if ESL is willing to find a solution to this situation. learn to read dude. i said i will not watch anymore ESL events if they DO NOT give a good explanation. Seriously, if they cannot come up with a good explanation or a good solution, i don't think they deserve support. You are not going to support a lousy restaurant with poor service just because hey it's one of the last few restaurants left in your neighborhood, same logic.
Though you also don't abandon one of the last restaurants in the neighborhood because they gave you bad service one day but are otherwise pretty good.
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Also, I do have to point out that some tournaments are extremely close together.
WCS Leipzig - January 26-28
WESG NA qualifier - February 1-4
IEM PeyongChang - February 5-7
Winter Olympics - February 9-25
IEM couldn't have postponed the tournament a week later or held the tournament a week earlier. The only time where there would be absolutely no overlap is January 19-21. But this time would be way too early for the Olympic crowd to see.
IEM's initial handling was pretty poor, but I can understand the logic of not being sure if players could even make it to their tournament.
Scarlett even wrote that they wouldn't be able to make the first day of IEM, and so if there were any delays, the tournament could be down two players.
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On December 13 2017 02:10 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 02:08 Kaizor wrote:On December 13 2017 01:18 xelnaga_empire wrote:On December 13 2017 01:15 Fango wrote:On December 12 2017 21:13 xelnaga_empire wrote:Hey everybody, Apollo said ESL is looking into this. Let ESL look into it and see if they can come up with a solution. This overreaction to boycotting this broadcaster, and that broadcaster is just damaging to the SC2 community. Not too long ago, people say they will boycott Rifkin. And now people are saying they will boycott IEM. And at a certain point in time, people said that about TakeTV too. Look, you do that, and the SC2 pro scene collapses. Without BaseTradeTV, without IEM, without TakeTV, without all these organizers supporting the SC2 pro scene, there won't be a SC2 pro scene anymore. In this case, let's reserve our judgement until ESL has a chance to work it through. It's bad enough that Pro League is gone and many Korean SC2 pros either retired or quit SC2 altogether, but now we are throwing pitchforks at what's left and sadly, there isn't much left. Outside of Korea, it's more or less IEM and Dreamhack that are the prestigious tournaments left for SC2. Boycotting IEM leaves us just with Dreamhack, lol. We don't have many choices these days. And neither do the pros. ESL and IEM leaving SC2 would be a big blow to the SC2 pro scene. So give ESL a chance to fix this. What you say is true. But without some kind of angry reaction from the players/comunity, there's no way ESL would have done anything in the first place. I'm not saying people should send death threats to ESL or anything crazy. But you should at least express distaste in how they organized the event. Not complaining/doing anything is a sure way to make sure stuff like this happens again Yes, letting ESL know that you are displeased and that they need to fix the problem is one thing. Asking ESL to make sure this doesn't happen again is also reasonable. Some people in this thread were advocating boycotting IEM forever. Boycotting IEM forever is counter productive and a total loss for the SC2 community, especially if ESL is willing to find a solution to this situation. learn to read dude. i said i will not watch anymore ESL events if they DO NOT give a good explanation. Seriously, if they cannot come up with a good explanation or a good solution, i don't think they deserve support. You are not going to support a lousy restaurant with poor service just because hey it's one of the last few restaurants left in your neighborhood, same logic. Though you also don't abandon one of the last restaurants in the neighborhood because they gave you bad service one day but are otherwise pretty good.
Yes, Katowice was the best event last year, i hope it will be so in 2018 
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any other games affected by this bullshit?
Imagine if they did that to the CS teams.
I expect more from IEM tbh.
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On December 13 2017 02:47 FrkFrJss wrote:
Also, I do have to point out that some tournaments are extremely close together.
WCS Leipzig - January 26-28
WESG NA qualifier - February 1-4
IEM PeyongChang - February 5-7
Winter Olympics - February 9-25
IEM couldn't have postponed the tournament a week later or held the tournament a week earlier. The only time where there would be absolutely no overlap is January 19-21. But this time would be way too early for the Olympic crowd to see.
IEM's initial handling was pretty poor, but I can understand the logic of not being sure if players could even make it to their tournament.
Scarlett even wrote that they wouldn't be able to make the first day of IEM, and so if there were any delays, the tournament could be down two players.
There are also media days to be done and other things to do. Being a player at a tournament is not always just showing up and playing games.
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On December 13 2017 03:05 Aeromi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 02:47 FrkFrJss wrote:
Also, I do have to point out that some tournaments are extremely close together.
WCS Leipzig - January 26-28
WESG NA qualifier - February 1-4
IEM PeyongChang - February 5-7
Winter Olympics - February 9-25
IEM couldn't have postponed the tournament a week later or held the tournament a week earlier. The only time where there would be absolutely no overlap is January 19-21. But this time would be way too early for the Olympic crowd to see.
IEM's initial handling was pretty poor, but I can understand the logic of not being sure if players could even make it to their tournament.
Scarlett even wrote that they wouldn't be able to make the first day of IEM, and so if there were any delays, the tournament could be down two players. There are also media days to be done and other things to do. Being a player at a tournament is not always just showing up and playing games.
Thats right but if you make sure all the good players can't come, I don't see any scenario where an avilo media day can turn out to be a positive thing.
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On December 13 2017 01:18 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 01:15 Fango wrote:
What you say is true. But without some kind of angry reaction from the players/comunity, there's no way ESL would have done anything in the first place.
I'm not saying people should send death threats to ESL or anything crazy. But you should at least express distaste in how they organized the event. Not complaining/doing anything is a sure way to make sure stuff like this happens again Yes, letting ESL know that you are displeased and that they need to fix the problem is one thing. Asking ESL to make sure this doesn't happen again is also reasonable. Some people in this thread were advocating boycotting IEM forever. Boycotting IEM forever is counter productive and a total loss for the SC2 community, especially if ESL is willing to find a solution to this situation.
We're living in a world where without death treats, the world isn't moving at all. Why do you think there are only 2 tournaments now if they keep making a fool of the sc2's scene ?... Either this game is dead, or they seriously need a kick in the ass.
Sadly, I'm a very cynical guy, the former is most likely to happen.
User was warned for this post
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On December 13 2017 03:15 RaiZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 01:18 xelnaga_empire wrote:On December 13 2017 01:15 Fango wrote:
What you say is true. But without some kind of angry reaction from the players/comunity, there's no way ESL would have done anything in the first place.
I'm not saying people should send death threats to ESL or anything crazy. But you should at least express distaste in how they organized the event. Not complaining/doing anything is a sure way to make sure stuff like this happens again Yes, letting ESL know that you are displeased and that they need to fix the problem is one thing. Asking ESL to make sure this doesn't happen again is also reasonable. Some people in this thread were advocating boycotting IEM forever. Boycotting IEM forever is counter productive and a total loss for the SC2 community, especially if ESL is willing to find a solution to this situation. We're living in a world where without death treats, the world isn't moving at all. Why do you think there are only 2 tournaments now if they keep making a fool of the sc2's scene ?... Either this game is dead, or they seriously need a kick in the ass. Sadly, I'm a very cynical guy, the former is most likely to happen.
Nothing makes me want to get more involved with a scene than receiving death threats from them?
What.
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On December 13 2017 03:27 feardragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 03:15 RaiZ wrote:On December 13 2017 01:18 xelnaga_empire wrote:On December 13 2017 01:15 Fango wrote:
What you say is true. But without some kind of angry reaction from the players/comunity, there's no way ESL would have done anything in the first place.
I'm not saying people should send death threats to ESL or anything crazy. But you should at least express distaste in how they organized the event. Not complaining/doing anything is a sure way to make sure stuff like this happens again Yes, letting ESL know that you are displeased and that they need to fix the problem is one thing. Asking ESL to make sure this doesn't happen again is also reasonable. Some people in this thread were advocating boycotting IEM forever. Boycotting IEM forever is counter productive and a total loss for the SC2 community, especially if ESL is willing to find a solution to this situation. We're living in a world where without death treats, the world isn't moving at all. Why do you think there are only 2 tournaments now if they keep making a fool of the sc2's scene ?... Either this game is dead, or they seriously need a kick in the ass. Sadly, I'm a very cynical guy, the former is most likely to happen. Nothing makes me want to get more involved with a scene than receiving death threats from them? What.
Which is worse, death threats or capital Fs?
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8748 Posts
Just wanna say as far as any possible injustice or possible boycotting, I had no idea what was going on with regards to that. I assumed people couldn't show up because of simple scheduling conflicts. I got a last minute e-mail asking me to replace neeb, who I assumed dropped out because he qualifies for everything but probably can't play in everything that's happening this Jan-Feb, and so I decided to show up and did the best I could. I didn't have time to consider or research if anything fishy was going on. Just went to my PC and started playing.
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You are in the fine NonY.
You done nothing wrong and think we all happy you showed up so the qualifier wasn't more empty.
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Nice job, ESL and IEM. How to help Blizzard to stop being the biggest villain of SC2 since introducing region lock ... We have a new villain in the town!
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maybe someone is sleeping who needs to give his approval..
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United States97276 Posts
On December 13 2017 07:37 Charoisaur wrote:maybe someone is sleeping who needs to give his approval..
this is the biggest broken promise since pizza.gg
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They fucked up, but doesn't everyone sometimes? ESL/IEM are a vital part of what remains of the SC2 scene and they generally do a great job. We should cut them some slack, especially if they find a way to resolve the situation.
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Came back here assuming that the answer they would post "in the next hour or two" would have been up by now. Pretty dumb that this happened at all. You would think the admins' would have realized that this was not a very smart idea in the first place...
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scarlett is 24 now ? did he/she (because you cant change your biology, but also you can be politically correct) finish highschool ? i understand that being transgender/gay/mental disorders is difficult to be in a social atmosphere, hence the retreat into pro gaming. im so glad this person has gotten to show their merits in one way or another.
User was banned for this post.
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On December 13 2017 08:27 FFW_Rude wrote:you gotta love TB
Inviting JonSnow is a nice gesture since I don't believe he's been in any of them. Hopefully he makes something of the opportunity and wins a game or two.
Neeb, Scarlett, and SpeCial have been frequent SHOUTcraft Kings participants and likely have a standing offer to play each month if they respond with any timeliness. I suppose he could try to lob them some relatively softballs (non-Koreans) rather than feeding them to the lions (Koreans).
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On December 13 2017 08:30 Chronicwisdom wrote:
scarlett is 24 now ? did he/she (because you cant change your biology, but also you can be politically correct) finish highschool ? i understand that being transgender/gay/mental disorders is difficult to be in a social atmosphere, hence the retreat into pro gaming. im so glad this person has gotten to show their merits in one way or another.
What ?
Just do us a favor and consider her a gamer first and foremost. But most importantly, why did you even bring that topic up ? What does it have to do with anything related to IEM or WESG ?
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On December 13 2017 08:30 Chronicwisdom wrote:
scarlett is 24 now ? did he/she (because you cant change your biology, but also you can be politically correct) finish highschool ? i understand that being transgender/gay/mental disorders is difficult to be in a social atmosphere, hence the retreat into pro gaming. im so glad this person has gotten to show their merits in one way or another.
Can you please go away with your transphobe bullshit?
Misgendering a trans person is violent, as is associating trans people with mental disorders
EDIT : Mods be praised
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Apollo should learn from Blizzard and never give date/time estimates until they are set in stone. There's a reason why soon™ exists.
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Did u not look at the previous posts or realize this was posted 11 hours ago, or are you making a nonverbal point at how we still haven't heard of what their solution is gonna be? So many questions to be had with your wordless post haha
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On December 13 2017 10:51 billynasty wrote:Did u not look at the previous posts or realize this was posted 11 hours ago, or are you making a nonverbal point at how we still haven't heard of what their solution is gonna be? So many questions to be had with your wordless post haha
You decide, the meaning of a sentence is determined only by it's role in the langage games of the linguistic community
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Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 08:30 Chronicwisdom wrote:
scarlett is 24 now ? did he/she (because you cant change your biology, but also you can be politically correct) finish highschool ? i understand that being transgender/gay/mental disorders is difficult to be in a social atmosphere, hence the retreat into pro gaming. im so glad this person has gotten to show their merits in one way or another.
User was banned for this post.
What a fucking asshole. When someone writes hateful shit like this I need to call it out, it's hate speech and it's bullshit.
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Edit: Extremely well handled in retrospect, props to IEM!
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On December 13 2017 13:42 ShambhalaWar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 08:30 Chronicwisdom wrote:
scarlett is 24 now ? did he/she (because you cant change your biology, but also you can be politically correct) finish highschool ? i understand that being transgender/gay/mental disorders is difficult to be in a social atmosphere, hence the retreat into pro gaming. im so glad this person has gotten to show their merits in one way or another.
User was banned for this post. What a fucking asshole. When someone writes hateful shit like this I need to call it out, it's hate speech and it's bullshit.
Mods already handed down a ban, there's no need to give a troll any more attention than that.
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It would be nice if comments like that were deleted as well as resulting in a ban though.....if first posters are deleted as soon as they make the comment they don't get attention and we don't have to view that bile. Anyway, I am now contributing to the problem myself so will shut up and let the mods do their job I guess.
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On December 13 2017 07:58 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 07:37 Charoisaur wrote:maybe someone is sleeping who needs to give his approval.. this is the biggest broken promise since pizza.gg
Ah the internet never forgets, and SC2 players as well lol.
I hope something can be worked out though. I'm a huge Nony fan so I'm happy to see him play, but this is unfair to Neeb et. al.
But let's be honest, I'm still going to watch IEM PC, because this is going to be a litmus test for esports into the Olympics. Boycotting this wouldn't just hurt SC2, but it could also hurt the legitimacy of all esports games and perhaps esports entry into Olympics.
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On December 13 2017 07:58 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 07:37 Charoisaur wrote:maybe someone is sleeping who needs to give his approval.. this is the biggest broken promise since pizza.gg
I believe you were thinking of eSportsU
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On December 13 2017 01:18 xelnaga_empire wrote:
Yes, letting ESL know that you are displeased and that they need to fix the problem is one thing. Asking ESL to make sure this doesn't happen again is also reasonable. Some people in this thread were advocating boycotting IEM forever. Boycotting IEM forever is counter productive and a total loss for the SC2 community, especially if ESL is willing to find a solution to this situation.
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them.
People talk about scheduling. But isn't the more outrageous thing that you can be DQed if you might not make it to the main event? I know it's because it is more convenient for the tournament organizers, but its quite ugly in my opinion. (Just because you can get away with having rules like these, doesn't make it right.) The qualification spot should be a right, not a duty to participate.
I could understand if there was punishment for a no-show without prior notice, but that's a different matter than DQing from qualifiers.
At least to me it seems pretty strange. That's why there are/should be substitutes.
I remember a couple of players not making it to BlizzCon last year. These players were not DQed beforehand.
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On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them.
I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems.
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On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems.
In this day and age, business is very sensitive to social media feedback because perception is intrinsically linked to value. Yes it's childish but it works, and you can't blame people for pursuing behaviour that gets the results they want.
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On December 13 2017 18:43 IMSupervisor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems. In this day and age, business is very sensitive to social media feedback because perception is intrinsically linked to value. Yes it's childish but it works, and you can't blame people for pursuing behaviour that gets the results they want.
The problem with boycotting something is that it can hurt associated people/business/whatever which in this case is sc2. You have to think about what can happen, if it is worth to boycott something but at the same time hurt something you like.
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8748 Posts
On December 13 2017 20:50 Corvuuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 18:43 IMSupervisor wrote:On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems. In this day and age, business is very sensitive to social media feedback because perception is intrinsically linked to value. Yes it's childish but it works, and you can't blame people for pursuing behaviour that gets the results they want. The problem with boycotting something is that it can hurt associated people/business/whatever which in this case is sc2. You have to think about what can happen, if it is worth to boycott something but at the same time hurt something you like.
But the problem with being polite is that nothing changes. There's a specific circumstance and explanation for each one of these controversies, as if they're all unique and must simply be tolerated, but the fact that they keep happening indicates some kind of flaw in their policies and decision-making. If they never change because they depend on the fact that the community will be forgiving over and over again, then these issues will never stop occurring. The way these companies operate opens themselves up to these mistakes. Something fundamental needs to change. Something different has to happen in order to break the cycle and actually improve things for everyone. So yes, a boycott is adding more damage to an already damaged situation, but if nothing else has resulted in change, then it's reasonable to experiment with a different stimulus. I'm not necessarily saying some kind of boycott should be organized right now, but having seen this cycle occur countless times with nothing changing across several esports behemoths, it seems perfectly reasonable to me that people are beginning to think more drastic reactions are called for.
Remember that the goal would actually be improving things for everyone. It's the way people are currently behaving that is already hurting everyone associated with SC2.
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If you can't guarantee you will deliver said news within the timeframe you promise, better not make that promise at all.
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On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems.
Apparently IEM DQed the players instead of your so called "communicating and solving problems".
On December 13 2017 20:50 Corvuuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 18:43 IMSupervisor wrote:On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems. In this day and age, business is very sensitive to social media feedback because perception is intrinsically linked to value. Yes it's childish but it works, and you can't blame people for pursuing behaviour that gets the results they want. The problem with boycotting something is that it can hurt associated people/business/whatever which in this case is sc2. You have to think about what can happen, if it is worth to boycott something but at the same time hurt something you like.
There is not much to think. The answer is definitely a yes. Let me explain.
If you think about how law works: it always protects the rights of the individual not the benefits of the masses. Do you say it is correct to overlook that some people are murdered (sacrificed) because it is for the greater good? Of course not.
My point is: it is worth boycotting for individual rights. No amount of great things is a reason to overlook unfair treatment.
Anyways there seems to be a solution, the above was just a theoretical discourse.
More on point:
I still do not quite understand what the official reason given for DQing is. Seems kinda illegal to me.
In twitlonger it says
"All the players who want to play WESG are therefore being disqualified just in case we aren't able to make it to IEM"
I am confused how you can be disqualified for that. I can see how qualifying for IEM makes you obligated to appear there, but I can't see how you can be DQed for participating in WESG.
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On December 14 2017 02:06 DSh1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems. Apparently IEM DQed the players instead of your so called "communicating and solving problems".
Precisely. So we should be communicating and solving problems when ESL did not do proper communication and created this problem in the first place??
And look at the deafening silence. How long since Apollo claimed that a statement was coming?
Why is there nothing yet?
They can't even come up with a simple " Sorry guys, we screwed up, we will try to make this right."
Nope, not even a single apology, its like they are hoping to drag things out and hopefully people will forget about it until the next time another schedule conflict occurs and players get screwed again.
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I think they are not co-operating with each other bc they are in competition with one another. Unless a larger body like Blizzard comes in and set a schedule so that there's no conflict, I don't see why they will be willing to accommodate to one another. It is unfortunate but that's the reality. Being nice to one another is not essential for their own growth. It is sad because those who hurt the most are the pros.
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On December 13 2017 18:43 IMSupervisor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2017 18:00 Tommy131313 wrote:On December 13 2017 17:17 DSh1 wrote:
You really think big companies behave nicely if you are buying their product anyways? Boycotting is the only thing that really hurts them. I believe, defiantly boycotting someone who made a mistake is a somewhat childish behavior. Adults usually get things done by communicating and solving problems. In this day and age, business is very sensitive to social media feedback because perception is intrinsically linked to value. Yes it's childish but it works, and you can't blame people for pursuing behaviour that gets the results they want.
Nope. It only work for a short period & it block other company from coming.
Long term consequence is: company get away more & more, and less and less new come in.
So... yeah, we definitely can blame people for pursuing behavior that are short-sighted.
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So ESL stream is not even linked in the sidebar right now? when qualifiers are going on? that's so stupid. SC2 scene always harms itself instead of pulling together
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On December 14 2017 04:18 Leviance wrote:
So ESL stream is not even linked in the sidebar right now? when qualifiers are going on? that's so stupid. SC2 scene always harms itself instead of pulling together
The person who added the event to the calendar forgot to link the stream. Happens from time to time, and unrelated to this thread.
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On December 14 2017 04:18 Leviance wrote:
So ESL stream is not even linked in the sidebar right now? when qualifiers are going on? that's so stupid. SC2 scene always harms itself instead of pulling together
Sometimes the streams don't get added to the events for one reason or another, especially when its one like ESL that is constantly running. Nothing to make a fuss about, it's already fixed
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I think this event shouldn't be on calendar if you really support the affected people. Anything else is blah blah. 
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On December 14 2017 05:34 sc-darkness wrote:I think this event shouldn't be on calendar if you really support the affected people. Anything else is blah blah.
Imma go out on a limb and say there's a 0% chance of that happening. It's still an IEM
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If you talk about the live event, they can't reschedule it easily. The organisation of such an event is a lot of work. Everything is planned months if not years ahead. For example: The place is booked at least a year ahead. Some places have waiting lists of 2-3 years.
And it doesn't end with the place. Production devices, lights, cameras, monitors, cables, hardware, workers who build everything up and a production crew for the main event. Everything is planned at least one year ahead. Such an event consists of so many parts, if you don't follow the plan, it is impossible to keep track of everything.
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Yeah let us boycott it, because they made a mistake. The next time they will think twice before they do an event for sc2. It isn't as if we are without a mistake.
It would be different if IEM insisted that they are right and that everything is fine. But they didn't act like that.
The problems have often other sources which is hidden from the consumer. Companies stay quiet, because if you explain the problem to the consumer, they will misunderstand it and the outcry will become worse. Such an event isn't done in a snap! It is organized at least one year ahead (and maybe planned two years ahead). You can't keep track of everything. Mistakes happen! and will always happen! Important part is how you handle the mistakes.
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On December 14 2017 05:58 todespolka wrote:
Yeah let us boycott it, because they made a mistake. The next time they will think twice before they do an event for sc2. It isn't as if we are without a mistake.
It would be different if IEM insisted that they are right and that everything is fine. But they didn't act like that.
The problems have often other sources which is hidden from the consumer. Companies stay quiet, because if you explain the problem to the consumer, they will misunderstand it and the outcry will become worse. Such an event isn't done in a snap! It is organized at least one year ahead (and maybe planned two years ahead). You can't keep track of everything. Mistakes happen! and will always happen! Important part is how you handle the mistakes.
That's exactly my point! And as the later part is still pending, we as SC2 community should give those responsible for the problems a good chance to solve them or otherwise apologise to the players, that are affected from their mistake.
...whoever is without sin throw the first stone...
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If Scarlett, Neeb, and special aren't playing, I actually don't have much interest in the event anyway because they are all my favorite players
I have no problem with people making mistakes (I've made plenty), but is anyone working on resolving this? I got the vibe people talked about a fix for a little but will ultimately do nothing.
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On December 14 2017 11:10 ShambhalaWar wrote:If Scarlett, Neeb, and special aren't playing, I actually don't have much interest in the event anyway because they are all my favorite players I have no problem with people making mistakes (I've made plenty), but is anyone working on resolving this? I got the vibe people talked about a fix for a little but will ultimately do nothing.
The reason they'll ultimately do nothing is because there is basically no solution that doesn't make things worse.
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PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse?
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On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse?
I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's.
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On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's.
Why would that be worse?
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On December 14 2017 13:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's. Why would that be worse?
Because you'd be punishing players for things outside of their control in the name of making up for punishing players for things outside of their control. Two wrongs don't make a right.
The original wrong can at least be justified by someone making a poor decision in a tough situation. This would be a wrong made with time and discussion.
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On December 14 2017 13:25 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 13:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's. Why would that be worse? Because you'd be punishing players for things outside of their control in the name of making up for punishing players for things outside of their control. Two wrongs don't make a right. The original wrong can at least be justified by someone making a poor decision in a tough situation. This would be a wrong made with time and discussion.
You'd be declaring the initial qualifiers invalid due to being mismanaged. Sure it sucks for Cham and PandaBearMe who won the invalid qualifier, but at least new qualifiers give everyone a fair shot. It's a much better solution than leaving things as is (though I'm not sure how easy it is logistically).
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On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's.
Could be worse. You could have more foreigners
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On December 14 2017 17:44 Beany wrote:Hold up, there still isn't anything sorted out yet? I check https://twitter.com/ApolloSC2 but his last tweet was from 2 days ago.
Apollo said "shortly" and we haven't heard from him since. Presumably the simple fix they were planning on turned out to be not so simple after all.
This is why Soon™ exists in the first place.
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On December 14 2017 18:28 pvsnp wrote:Apollo said "shortly" and we haven't heard from him since. Presumably the simple fix they were planning on turned out to be not so simple after all. This is why Soon™ exists in the first place.
I would imagine that the fix is not so simple as it requires two-four of the players to miss all media and publicity prior to a major tournament held right before the Olympics.
Or it requires a venue that's been booked for months to have a major event cancelled and rescheduled for a week or so later knowing that the main event is a month away.
Keep in mind they have
WCS Leipzig January 26-28
WESG NA February 1-4
IEM PyeongChang 5-7
The players who play in all three are going to be hyper jet lagged, not to mention that at least three players are going to show up to what is essentially the Olympics pre show just to play at the tournament.
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On December 14 2017 18:28 pvsnp wrote:Apollo said "shortly" and we haven't heard from him since. Presumably the simple fix they were planning on turned out to be not so simple after all. This is why Soon™ exists in the first place.
originally he said "in a hour or two". Then he retconned it to "shortly". So far they've shown how disorganized they are so I don't expect any real response soon.
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On December 14 2017 13:25 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 13:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's. Why would that be worse? Because you'd be punishing players for things outside of their control in the name of making up for punishing players for things outside of their control. Two wrongs don't make a right. The original wrong can at least be justified by someone making a poor decision in a tough situation. This would be a wrong made with time and discussion.
Replaying the qualifiers with everyone in it is the only way to do it fairly. Cham and PBM should not have been able to qualify by beating the players they did. And making players requalify is not near as bad as unfairly removing them from the event
The qualifier should never have been played with half the players removed in the first place. Replaying it means that whoever wins actually deserves to go to IEM. That's what matters.
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Maybe they'll settle this by paying the DQ'ed players a certain amount of $
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On December 14 2017 18:28 pvsnp wrote:Apollo said "shortly" and we haven't heard from him since. Presumably the simple fix they were planning on turned out to be not so simple after all.
There's a good chance Apollo's tweet was just damage control and they aren't actually doing anything about it
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On December 14 2017 23:11 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 18:28 pvsnp wrote:On December 14 2017 17:44 Beany wrote:Hold up, there still isn't anything sorted out yet? I check https://twitter.com/ApolloSC2 but his last tweet was from 2 days ago. Apollo said "shortly" and we haven't heard from him since. Presumably the simple fix they were planning on turned out to be not so simple after all. There's a good chance Apollo's tweet was just damage control and they aren't actually doing anything about it
I don't see Apollo being that evil.
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On December 14 2017 13:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 13:25 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 13:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's. Why would that be worse? Because you'd be punishing players for things outside of their control in the name of making up for punishing players for things outside of their control. Two wrongs don't make a right. The original wrong can at least be justified by someone making a poor decision in a tough situation. This would be a wrong made with time and discussion. You'd be declaring the initial qualifiers invalid due to being mismanaged. Sure it sucks for Cham and PandaBearMe who won the invalid qualifier, but at least new qualifiers give everyone a fair shot. It's a much better solution than leaving things as is (though I'm not sure how easy it is logistically).
If the rules allowed the person who made the decision to DQ the players to make that decision, then the qualifiers were NOT mismanaged. The better decision on the part of that individual would have been to pursue it up the chain of command and maybe even postpone the qualifier if things couldn't be resolved quickly, but once the decision was made to DQ the players and have the qualifiers, that's what they have to stand behind. You can't give people authority to make judgment calls then undercut them afterwards if you don't like the decisions they made.
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On December 15 2017 00:33 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 13:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:25 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 13:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's. Why would that be worse? Because you'd be punishing players for things outside of their control in the name of making up for punishing players for things outside of their control. Two wrongs don't make a right. The original wrong can at least be justified by someone making a poor decision in a tough situation. This would be a wrong made with time and discussion. You'd be declaring the initial qualifiers invalid due to being mismanaged. Sure it sucks for Cham and PandaBearMe who won the invalid qualifier, but at least new qualifiers give everyone a fair shot. It's a much better solution than leaving things as is (though I'm not sure how easy it is logistically). If the rules allowed the person who made the decision to DQ the players to make that decision, then the qualifiers were NOT mismanaged. The better decision on the part of that individual would have been to pursue it up the chain of command and maybe even postpone the qualifier if things couldn't be resolved quickly, but once the decision was made to DQ the players and have the qualifiers, that's what they have to stand behind. You can't give people authority to make judgment calls then undercut them afterwards if you don't like the decisions they made.
Why should IEM be beholden to a shitty decision an admin made when they ultimately have the authority to overturn that decision? You 100% can rule that the decision made was incorrect and undermined the qualifier and take steps to correct the mistake. Boxing organizational bodies for example have overruled decisions made my refs before.
Besides at the end of the day all we want is an outcome that is fairest to the players and giving everyone another shot is undoubtedly fairer than leaving half the players arbitrarily DQed (assuming that there is a way to accomodate the scheduling).
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On December 15 2017 00:03 Beany wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2017 23:11 Fango wrote:On December 14 2017 18:28 pvsnp wrote:On December 14 2017 17:44 Beany wrote:Hold up, there still isn't anything sorted out yet? I check https://twitter.com/ApolloSC2 but his last tweet was from 2 days ago. Apollo said "shortly" and we haven't heard from him since. Presumably the simple fix they were planning on turned out to be not so simple after all. There's a good chance Apollo's tweet was just damage control and they aren't actually doing anything about it I don't see Apollo being that evil.
Also it doesn't actually control damage, just delays it,while making it worse if they don't find a resolution.
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On December 15 2017 02:41 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 00:33 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 13:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:25 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 13:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's. Why would that be worse? Because you'd be punishing players for things outside of their control in the name of making up for punishing players for things outside of their control. Two wrongs don't make a right. The original wrong can at least be justified by someone making a poor decision in a tough situation. This would be a wrong made with time and discussion. You'd be declaring the initial qualifiers invalid due to being mismanaged. Sure it sucks for Cham and PandaBearMe who won the invalid qualifier, but at least new qualifiers give everyone a fair shot. It's a much better solution than leaving things as is (though I'm not sure how easy it is logistically). If the rules allowed the person who made the decision to DQ the players to make that decision, then the qualifiers were NOT mismanaged. The better decision on the part of that individual would have been to pursue it up the chain of command and maybe even postpone the qualifier if things couldn't be resolved quickly, but once the decision was made to DQ the players and have the qualifiers, that's what they have to stand behind. You can't give people authority to make judgment calls then undercut them afterwards if you don't like the decisions they made. Why should IEM be beholden to a shitty decision an admin made when they ultimately have the authority to overturn that decision? You 100% can rule that the decision made was incorrect and undermined the qualifier and take steps to correct the mistake. Boxing organizational bodies for example have overruled decisions made my refs before. Besides at the end of the day all we want is an outcome that is fairest to the players and giving everyone another shot is undoubtedly fairer than leaving half the players arbitrarily DQed (assuming that there is a way to accomodate the scheduling).
It isn't fair to the players to force certain players to reveal builds and strategies in what they thought were qualifying matches then tell them those don't count. That's more unfair than not letting players play when they have scheduling conflicts that will cause additional accommodations to be made.
If they DO hold a redo, they need to DQ SpeCial for making offensive jokes in twitch chat during the ESL stream.
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On December 15 2017 03:50 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 02:41 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 15 2017 00:33 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 13:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:25 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 13:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's. Why would that be worse? Because you'd be punishing players for things outside of their control in the name of making up for punishing players for things outside of their control. Two wrongs don't make a right. The original wrong can at least be justified by someone making a poor decision in a tough situation. This would be a wrong made with time and discussion. You'd be declaring the initial qualifiers invalid due to being mismanaged. Sure it sucks for Cham and PandaBearMe who won the invalid qualifier, but at least new qualifiers give everyone a fair shot. It's a much better solution than leaving things as is (though I'm not sure how easy it is logistically). If the rules allowed the person who made the decision to DQ the players to make that decision, then the qualifiers were NOT mismanaged. The better decision on the part of that individual would have been to pursue it up the chain of command and maybe even postpone the qualifier if things couldn't be resolved quickly, but once the decision was made to DQ the players and have the qualifiers, that's what they have to stand behind. You can't give people authority to make judgment calls then undercut them afterwards if you don't like the decisions they made. Why should IEM be beholden to a shitty decision an admin made when they ultimately have the authority to overturn that decision? You 100% can rule that the decision made was incorrect and undermined the qualifier and take steps to correct the mistake. Boxing organizational bodies for example have overruled decisions made my refs before. Besides at the end of the day all we want is an outcome that is fairest to the players and giving everyone another shot is undoubtedly fairer than leaving half the players arbitrarily DQed (assuming that there is a way to accomodate the scheduling). It isn't fair to the players to force certain players to reveal builds and strategies in what they thought were qualifying matches then tell them those don't count. That's more unfair than not letting players play when they have scheduling conflicts that will cause additional accommodations to be made. If they DO hold a redo, they need to DQ SpeCial for making offensive jokes in twitch chat during the ESL stream.
Your conception of fairness is warped. Players maybe revealing a few strategies for matches that don't end up mattering is in no way close to as bad as half the field not getting a chance due to getting disqualified by an overzealous admin. And DQing MajOr for twitch chat humour? Really?
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On December 15 2017 04:16 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 03:50 Boggyb wrote:On December 15 2017 02:41 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 15 2017 00:33 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 13:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:25 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 13:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's. Why would that be worse? Because you'd be punishing players for things outside of their control in the name of making up for punishing players for things outside of their control. Two wrongs don't make a right. The original wrong can at least be justified by someone making a poor decision in a tough situation. This would be a wrong made with time and discussion. You'd be declaring the initial qualifiers invalid due to being mismanaged. Sure it sucks for Cham and PandaBearMe who won the invalid qualifier, but at least new qualifiers give everyone a fair shot. It's a much better solution than leaving things as is (though I'm not sure how easy it is logistically). If the rules allowed the person who made the decision to DQ the players to make that decision, then the qualifiers were NOT mismanaged. The better decision on the part of that individual would have been to pursue it up the chain of command and maybe even postpone the qualifier if things couldn't be resolved quickly, but once the decision was made to DQ the players and have the qualifiers, that's what they have to stand behind. You can't give people authority to make judgment calls then undercut them afterwards if you don't like the decisions they made. Why should IEM be beholden to a shitty decision an admin made when they ultimately have the authority to overturn that decision? You 100% can rule that the decision made was incorrect and undermined the qualifier and take steps to correct the mistake. Boxing organizational bodies for example have overruled decisions made my refs before. Besides at the end of the day all we want is an outcome that is fairest to the players and giving everyone another shot is undoubtedly fairer than leaving half the players arbitrarily DQed (assuming that there is a way to accomodate the scheduling). It isn't fair to the players to force certain players to reveal builds and strategies in what they thought were qualifying matches then tell them those don't count. That's more unfair than not letting players play when they have scheduling conflicts that will cause additional accommodations to be made. If they DO hold a redo, they need to DQ SpeCial for making offensive jokes in twitch chat during the ESL stream. Your conception of fairness is warped. Players maybe revealing a few strategies for matches that don't end up mattering is in no way close to as bad as half the field not getting a chance due to getting disqualified by an overzealous admin. And DQing MajOr for twitch chat humour? Really?
Insulting disabled people is not acceptable from a professional or a human being.
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On December 15 2017 04:36 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 04:16 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 15 2017 03:50 Boggyb wrote:On December 15 2017 02:41 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 15 2017 00:33 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 13:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:25 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 13:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 14 2017 13:07 Boggyb wrote:On December 14 2017 12:41 DieuCure wrote:
PandaBearMe going to IEM PyeongChang instead of Neeb / Major, and you say it cant be worse? I said it can't be made better. It could be much worse. If they were to redo the qualifiers, that would be an abomination of several magnitudes worse than the DQ's. Why would that be worse? Because you'd be punishing players for things outside of their control in the name of making up for punishing players for things outside of their control. Two wrongs don't make a right. The original wrong can at least be justified by someone making a poor decision in a tough situation. This would be a wrong made with time and discussion. You'd be declaring the initial qualifiers invalid due to being mismanaged. Sure it sucks for Cham and PandaBearMe who won the invalid qualifier, but at least new qualifiers give everyone a fair shot. It's a much better solution than leaving things as is (though I'm not sure how easy it is logistically). If the rules allowed the person who made the decision to DQ the players to make that decision, then the qualifiers were NOT mismanaged. The better decision on the part of that individual would have been to pursue it up the chain of command and maybe even postpone the qualifier if things couldn't be resolved quickly, but once the decision was made to DQ the players and have the qualifiers, that's what they have to stand behind. You can't give people authority to make judgment calls then undercut them afterwards if you don't like the decisions they made. Why should IEM be beholden to a shitty decision an admin made when they ultimately have the authority to overturn that decision? You 100% can rule that the decision made was incorrect and undermined the qualifier and take steps to correct the mistake. Boxing organizational bodies for example have overruled decisions made my refs before. Besides at the end of the day all we want is an outcome that is fairest to the players and giving everyone another shot is undoubtedly fairer than leaving half the players arbitrarily DQed (assuming that there is a way to accomodate the scheduling). It isn't fair to the players to force certain players to reveal builds and strategies in what they thought were qualifying matches then tell them those don't count. That's more unfair than not letting players play when they have scheduling conflicts that will cause additional accommodations to be made. If they DO hold a redo, they need to DQ SpeCial for making offensive jokes in twitch chat during the ESL stream. Your conception of fairness is warped. Players maybe revealing a few strategies for matches that don't end up mattering is in no way close to as bad as half the field not getting a chance due to getting disqualified by an overzealous admin. And DQing MajOr for twitch chat humour? Really? Insulting disabled people is not acceptable from a professional or a human being.
Lodge a complaint with ESL if you feel strongly about it. Either way it isn't too relevant to this thread, or what ESL should do.
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Apollo just tweeted this 5 hours ago ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/GjDWory.png)
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Really cannot expect anything reasonable from Apollo.
Also the situation is stupid and it is hard to imagine any good solution.
But still interested in what they come with.
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Situation has been solved and Shaun will most likely announce it tomorrow.
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On December 15 2017 10:20 pHaRSiDE wrote:
Situation has been solved and Shaun will most likely announce it tomorrow.
And so we are left in anticipation :o
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On December 15 2017 11:37 Soke wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 10:20 pHaRSiDE wrote:
Situation has been solved and Shaun will most likely announce it tomorrow. And so we are left in anticipation :o
Was the only way to calm down the conspiracy theorists unfortunately :-S
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On December 15 2017 12:23 pHaRSiDE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 11:37 Soke wrote:On December 15 2017 10:20 pHaRSiDE wrote:
Situation has been solved and Shaun will most likely announce it tomorrow. And so we are left in anticipation :o Was the only way to calm down the conspiracy theorists unfortunately :-S
Apollo is a lizard person and you can't convince me otherwise
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On December 15 2017 13:02 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 12:23 pHaRSiDE wrote:On December 15 2017 11:37 Soke wrote:On December 15 2017 10:20 pHaRSiDE wrote:
Situation has been solved and Shaun will most likely announce it tomorrow. And so we are left in anticipation :o Was the only way to calm down the conspiracy theorists unfortunately :-S Apollo is a lizard person and you can't convince me otherwise
And how is this whole thing his fault?
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oh guys i LOVE pengwin i joked around with him in germany alot hes such a fun guy but still ^^ having him replace scarlett feels wrong ^^
iem fucked up dates
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On December 15 2017 20:45 kajtarp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 13:02 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On December 15 2017 12:23 pHaRSiDE wrote:On December 15 2017 11:37 Soke wrote:On December 15 2017 10:20 pHaRSiDE wrote:
Situation has been solved and Shaun will most likely announce it tomorrow. And so we are left in anticipation :o Was the only way to calm down the conspiracy theorists unfortunately :-S Apollo is a lizard person and you can't convince me otherwise And how is this whole thing his fault?
Can you really blame him after this backstage picture of Apollo came out?
+ Show Spoiler +
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Really cannot expect anything reasonable from Apollo.
Also the situation is stupid and it is hard to imagine any good solution.
But still interested in what they come with.
That is very true. They made a decision that was justified under the circumstances. It is unfair to two players (most likely Neeb and Special perhaps also Kelazhur) but World is not perfect and schedules are very tight. Now whatever exception they come up with will most likely be unfair to everyone in all regions. Unless they are willing to change the format of IEM - move dates, increase the prize pool, expand the tournament to 32 players etc. which is most unlikely.
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On December 16 2017 00:23 Kafka777 wrote:Show nested quote +Really cannot expect anything reasonable from Apollo.
Also the situation is stupid and it is hard to imagine any good solution.
But still interested in what they come with. That is very true. They made a decision that was justified under the circumstances. It is unfair to two players (most likely Neeb and Special perhaps also Kelazhur) but World is not perfect and schedules are very tight. Now whatever exception they come up with will most likely be unfair to everyone in all regions. Unless they are willing to change the format of IEM - move dates, increase the prize pool, expand the tournament to 32 players etc. which is most unlikely.
Yes, there is no reasonable good solution now. Not for the DQ'd players, not for the qualified players, and primarily not for the tournament, which was supposed to be the small Olympics ... now, the real Olympics will have Alibaba. With their prize pool.
The best solution would be a public apology, acknowledgement of their mistake, firing the person, who did this stupid decision and announcing that he has been fired. It should have been the choice of the players, nobody would be "DQ'd", but a few players would forfeit their spot ...
Therefore, I do not understand the statement that "Situation is solved and we will announce the solution tomorrow".
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China6329 Posts
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sounds like they took the time to resolve the issue as best they could after their mistake, and sounds like supposedly the players are happy too. they also seem to admit the initial situation was unfair on their part. nice
in before (?) someone still finds a way to say this is "still unfair to the other players" and they're a "joke of an organization" or whatever. i swear sometimes even the best internet forums are just breeding grounds for people to get angry about things that don't even affect them personally
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This is interesting, because the players will arrive on like the 5th of February, play the NA qualifier, and then play on the 6th.
It also means NA players in groups C and D.
Good resolution from ESL, though.
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Big surprise. Definitely a good resolution!
Wow IEM!
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On December 16 2017 03:04 brickrd wrote:
sounds like they took the time to resolve the issue as best they could after their mistake, and sounds like supposedly the players are happy too. they also seem to admit the initial situation was unfair on their part. nice
in before (?) someone still finds a way to say this is "still unfair to the other players" and they're a "joke of an organization" or whatever. i swear sometimes even the best internet forums are just breeding grounds for people to get angry about things that don't even affect them personally
You called it bud, people are now mad that NA has too many spots.
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On December 16 2017 06:32 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2017 03:04 brickrd wrote:
sounds like they took the time to resolve the issue as best they could after their mistake, and sounds like supposedly the players are happy too. they also seem to admit the initial situation was unfair on their part. nice
in before (?) someone still finds a way to say this is "still unfair to the other players" and they're a "joke of an organization" or whatever. i swear sometimes even the best internet forums are just breeding grounds for people to get angry about things that don't even affect them personally You called it bud, people are now mad that NA has too many spots.
those people can't read and don't seem to realize that the NA qualifier basically just got extended
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EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qdOC2NV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://screenanarchy.com/assets/2014/07/reptilian.jpg)
