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On November 14 2017 16:31 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 15:10 usopsama wrote:
Is there a tl;dr? Judging from the comments, it is a giant troll? It's just a morbid emotional fanfic of what it would feel like if GSL died in 2020.
TL was once a reputable website, now it is spreading FAKE NEWS. I don't even 
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On November 15 2017 04:47 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 09:09 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 07:53 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 05:54 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 05:49 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 01:18 nobunobu wrote:
The funniest part of this is the assumption that gsl would last until 2020.
User was warned for this post such thin skin here user gets warned about what is true. most of the pros are gonna retire very soon, viewership is at an all time low. GSL in korea in 2020 is very optimistic. There's still plenty of money in the scene, and I don't think its that optimistic. Do you think after all Blizzard has invested they're just going to stop in 2 years? I don't find that likely. plenty of money in the scene? low viewership corresponds to less advertising sponsorship which would directly impact prize pool and team salaries. compare to DOTA where the prize pool is in the millions and I'm assuming LOL is similar. you can just look at the size of the LR for blizzcon finals. much smaller now then it was back in 2013 Those are MOBAs in much much more popular games. RTS is going to be way more niche. We don't have 12 million monthly players like Dota 2, we have 2 million. There is 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. That is more prize money than any year in SC2's history besides 2012. Compare that to any 1v1 game. you'll need to source 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. in the golden age of 2011-2013(?) there was NASL, IGN Proleague, MLG, GSL, TSL, IEM, Dreamhack and other big tournaments going on all the time, and all of them either died (NASL, IGN, TSL), dropped SC2 (MLG and dreamhack although i believe dreamhack picked it up again but reduced in scope). So the only two big ones left are IEM and GSL. So where is this 4.1 million number coming from? Compare that to fighting games which are alive and kicking and have tons of viewership and are 1v1
https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/151-starcraft-ii/events
What fighting games? Fighting games don't even get 1/4th of the yearly prize money SC2 does. Street Fighter V is at 630k, Melee ~500k, Tekken 140k.
Granted SF might get +200k because their biggest tournament is in December, but still my point stands.
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Fighting games have tons of viewership but StarCraft is dying hahaha ok, at least put some effort into trolling.
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On November 15 2017 05:29 Ansibled wrote:
Fighting games have tons of viewership hahaha ok.
They do have great peaks during EVO, but not for most events throughout the year. The big ticket games at EVO peak at 200k, but events throughout most of the year? Not so much.
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jjakji vs leenock never forget
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Heart dropped into guts when I read the title.
This made me realize how much I missed GSL, or rather how much it means to me.
I need to rewatch all GSL VODs now.
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On November 15 2017 05:25 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 04:47 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 09:09 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 07:53 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 05:54 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 05:49 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 01:18 nobunobu wrote:
The funniest part of this is the assumption that gsl would last until 2020.
User was warned for this post such thin skin here user gets warned about what is true. most of the pros are gonna retire very soon, viewership is at an all time low. GSL in korea in 2020 is very optimistic. There's still plenty of money in the scene, and I don't think its that optimistic. Do you think after all Blizzard has invested they're just going to stop in 2 years? I don't find that likely. plenty of money in the scene? low viewership corresponds to less advertising sponsorship which would directly impact prize pool and team salaries. compare to DOTA where the prize pool is in the millions and I'm assuming LOL is similar. you can just look at the size of the LR for blizzcon finals. much smaller now then it was back in 2013 Those are MOBAs in much much more popular games. RTS is going to be way more niche. We don't have 12 million monthly players like Dota 2, we have 2 million. There is 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. That is more prize money than any year in SC2's history besides 2012. Compare that to any 1v1 game. you'll need to source 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. in the golden age of 2011-2013(?) there was NASL, IGN Proleague, MLG, GSL, TSL, IEM, Dreamhack and other big tournaments going on all the time, and all of them either died (NASL, IGN, TSL), dropped SC2 (MLG and dreamhack although i believe dreamhack picked it up again but reduced in scope). So the only two big ones left are IEM and GSL. So where is this 4.1 million number coming from? Compare that to fighting games which are alive and kicking and have tons of viewership and are 1v1 https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/151-starcraft-ii/eventsWhat fighting games? Fighting games don't even get 1/4th of the yearly prize money SC2 does. Street Fighter V is at 630k, Melee ~500k, Tekken 140k. Granted SF might get +200k because their biggest tournament is in December, but still my point stands.
prize money is a terrible metric for how big an esports is because a lot of it depends on how much money the company is willing to spend on it. Without blizzard money SC2 prize money wouldn't be very high.
Also Dota has by far the highest prize pools but nobody would argue it's a bigger esport than LoL.
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On November 15 2017 05:47 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 05:25 lestye wrote:On November 15 2017 04:47 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 09:09 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 07:53 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 05:54 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 05:49 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 01:18 nobunobu wrote:
The funniest part of this is the assumption that gsl would last until 2020.
User was warned for this post such thin skin here user gets warned about what is true. most of the pros are gonna retire very soon, viewership is at an all time low. GSL in korea in 2020 is very optimistic. There's still plenty of money in the scene, and I don't think its that optimistic. Do you think after all Blizzard has invested they're just going to stop in 2 years? I don't find that likely. plenty of money in the scene? low viewership corresponds to less advertising sponsorship which would directly impact prize pool and team salaries. compare to DOTA where the prize pool is in the millions and I'm assuming LOL is similar. you can just look at the size of the LR for blizzcon finals. much smaller now then it was back in 2013 Those are MOBAs in much much more popular games. RTS is going to be way more niche. We don't have 12 million monthly players like Dota 2, we have 2 million. There is 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. That is more prize money than any year in SC2's history besides 2012. Compare that to any 1v1 game. you'll need to source 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. in the golden age of 2011-2013(?) there was NASL, IGN Proleague, MLG, GSL, TSL, IEM, Dreamhack and other big tournaments going on all the time, and all of them either died (NASL, IGN, TSL), dropped SC2 (MLG and dreamhack although i believe dreamhack picked it up again but reduced in scope). So the only two big ones left are IEM and GSL. So where is this 4.1 million number coming from? Compare that to fighting games which are alive and kicking and have tons of viewership and are 1v1 https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/151-starcraft-ii/eventsWhat fighting games? Fighting games don't even get 1/4th of the yearly prize money SC2 does. Street Fighter V is at 630k, Melee ~500k, Tekken 140k. Granted SF might get +200k because their biggest tournament is in December, but still my point stands. prize money is a terrible metric for how big an esports is because a lot of it depends on how much money the company is willing to spend on it. Without blizzard money SC2 prize money wouldn't be very high. Also Dota has by far the highest prize pools but nobody would argue it's a bigger esport than LoL.
It's still be in the 2 million dollar range. I think Blizzard puts in around 2 million , not including the crowdfunding from the battle chests.
It's still a significant metric, I wouldn't consider it terrible.
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Clickbait title. C'mon guys.
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On November 15 2017 05:25 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 04:47 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 09:09 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 07:53 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 05:54 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 05:49 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 01:18 nobunobu wrote:
The funniest part of this is the assumption that gsl would last until 2020.
User was warned for this post such thin skin here user gets warned about what is true. most of the pros are gonna retire very soon, viewership is at an all time low. GSL in korea in 2020 is very optimistic. There's still plenty of money in the scene, and I don't think its that optimistic. Do you think after all Blizzard has invested they're just going to stop in 2 years? I don't find that likely. plenty of money in the scene? low viewership corresponds to less advertising sponsorship which would directly impact prize pool and team salaries. compare to DOTA where the prize pool is in the millions and I'm assuming LOL is similar. you can just look at the size of the LR for blizzcon finals. much smaller now then it was back in 2013 Those are MOBAs in much much more popular games. RTS is going to be way more niche. We don't have 12 million monthly players like Dota 2, we have 2 million. There is 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. That is more prize money than any year in SC2's history besides 2012. Compare that to any 1v1 game. you'll need to source 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. in the golden age of 2011-2013(?) there was NASL, IGN Proleague, MLG, GSL, TSL, IEM, Dreamhack and other big tournaments going on all the time, and all of them either died (NASL, IGN, TSL), dropped SC2 (MLG and dreamhack although i believe dreamhack picked it up again but reduced in scope). So the only two big ones left are IEM and GSL. So where is this 4.1 million number coming from? Compare that to fighting games which are alive and kicking and have tons of viewership and are 1v1 https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/151-starcraft-ii/eventsWhat fighting games? Fighting games don't even get 1/4th of the yearly prize money SC2 does. Street Fighter V is at 630k, Melee ~500k, Tekken 140k. Granted SF might get +200k because their biggest tournament is in December, but still my point stands.
oh wow that's actually very surprising. cool website. so how is it that there is still that much money available, yet all the podcasts (state of the game, inside the game, meta, etc) all died, kespa and proleague died, all the korean pro sc2 teams died, foreigner teams come and go, EG got rid of their SC2 team, TL SC2 afaik only has a handful of players left, LR threads are ghost towns, guys like day9 husky et all abandoned sc2 altogether, and viewership is at an all time low?
If its blizzard pumping all this money in, then its not sustainable. The other metrics don't lie.
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On November 15 2017 07:45 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 05:25 lestye wrote:On November 15 2017 04:47 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 09:09 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 07:53 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 05:54 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 05:49 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 01:18 nobunobu wrote:
The funniest part of this is the assumption that gsl would last until 2020.
User was warned for this post such thin skin here user gets warned about what is true. most of the pros are gonna retire very soon, viewership is at an all time low. GSL in korea in 2020 is very optimistic. There's still plenty of money in the scene, and I don't think its that optimistic. Do you think after all Blizzard has invested they're just going to stop in 2 years? I don't find that likely. plenty of money in the scene? low viewership corresponds to less advertising sponsorship which would directly impact prize pool and team salaries. compare to DOTA where the prize pool is in the millions and I'm assuming LOL is similar. you can just look at the size of the LR for blizzcon finals. much smaller now then it was back in 2013 Those are MOBAs in much much more popular games. RTS is going to be way more niche. We don't have 12 million monthly players like Dota 2, we have 2 million. There is 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. That is more prize money than any year in SC2's history besides 2012. Compare that to any 1v1 game. you'll need to source 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. in the golden age of 2011-2013(?) there was NASL, IGN Proleague, MLG, GSL, TSL, IEM, Dreamhack and other big tournaments going on all the time, and all of them either died (NASL, IGN, TSL), dropped SC2 (MLG and dreamhack although i believe dreamhack picked it up again but reduced in scope). So the only two big ones left are IEM and GSL. So where is this 4.1 million number coming from? Compare that to fighting games which are alive and kicking and have tons of viewership and are 1v1 https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/151-starcraft-ii/eventsWhat fighting games? Fighting games don't even get 1/4th of the yearly prize money SC2 does. Street Fighter V is at 630k, Melee ~500k, Tekken 140k. Granted SF might get +200k because their biggest tournament is in December, but still my point stands. oh wow that's actually very surprising. cool website. so how is it that there is still that much money available, yet all the podcasts (state of the game, inside the game, meta, etc) all died, kespa and proleague died, all the korean pro sc2 teams died, foreigner teams come and go, EG got rid of their SC2 team, TL SC2 afaik only has a handful of players left, LR threads are ghost towns, guys like day9 husky et all abandoned sc2 altogether, and viewership is at an all time low? If its blizzard pumping all this money in, then its not sustainable. The other metrics don't lie.
Havent pretty much all esports podcasts died? I don't know a single esports podcast from 2012-2014 thats still going to this day. Your other points are solid, there are problems in the scene, especially as the game has gotten older and interest has waned. However, I think the crux of my argument is still solid, there's still plenty of monetary opportunity for players, there's millions of dollars on the table, which is still great.
iicr, esports sponsorships are kinda shitty in korea across the board. The best Korea team in LoL couldn't get a sponsor last year, and CJ entus is disbanding. I don't think its necessarily an SC2 exclusive problem in Korea. Kespa isnt touching anything thats not LoL, with the notable exceptions of JinAir Greenwings in SC2 and MVP in a variety of games.
And why wouldnt it be sustainable? Blizzard covers about 50% of the prize money, the other 2m is from other organizers and their sponsors. That's still a lot of money. There are other esports where the % given out by the developers is much, much higher.
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On November 14 2017 01:23 dswarm wrote:
This actually made me tear up. Starcraft has been a significant part of my life for almost 7 years and I know for many people, longer. I know I will have to move on eventually, or the scene will someday totally die out, but its become hard to imagine on a personal level. This brought me face to face with that reality and its a hard thing to come to grips with. More than anything, however, this made me realize how infinity thankful I am for the game and the scene and specific people that make it what it is. Starcraft is a family and I am a brother. Thank you so much for this mizenhauer, it touched me.
Well said!
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So are we just writing fanfiction now?
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Is this not the second time the author uses a really clickbait-ish title? Also, what was the point? This was well written, as usual, but I did not enjoy. Would not recommend.
Also, BW lasted eleven years. SC2 making it to 2020 would mean it lasted ten years, give or take. Why did that user get a warning?
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
Got me scared, well played 
(please, please, please, next time use some less scary title)
Edit>
Weee, 6060 post!!!
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On November 15 2017 05:54 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 05:47 Charoisaur wrote:On November 15 2017 05:25 lestye wrote:On November 15 2017 04:47 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 09:09 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 07:53 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 05:54 lestye wrote:On November 14 2017 05:49 fishjie wrote:On November 14 2017 01:18 nobunobu wrote:
The funniest part of this is the assumption that gsl would last until 2020.
User was warned for this post such thin skin here user gets warned about what is true. most of the pros are gonna retire very soon, viewership is at an all time low. GSL in korea in 2020 is very optimistic. There's still plenty of money in the scene, and I don't think its that optimistic. Do you think after all Blizzard has invested they're just going to stop in 2 years? I don't find that likely. plenty of money in the scene? low viewership corresponds to less advertising sponsorship which would directly impact prize pool and team salaries. compare to DOTA where the prize pool is in the millions and I'm assuming LOL is similar. you can just look at the size of the LR for blizzcon finals. much smaller now then it was back in 2013 Those are MOBAs in much much more popular games. RTS is going to be way more niche. We don't have 12 million monthly players like Dota 2, we have 2 million. There is 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. That is more prize money than any year in SC2's history besides 2012. Compare that to any 1v1 game. you'll need to source 4.1 million dollars worth of prize money in the scene this year. in the golden age of 2011-2013(?) there was NASL, IGN Proleague, MLG, GSL, TSL, IEM, Dreamhack and other big tournaments going on all the time, and all of them either died (NASL, IGN, TSL), dropped SC2 (MLG and dreamhack although i believe dreamhack picked it up again but reduced in scope). So the only two big ones left are IEM and GSL. So where is this 4.1 million number coming from? Compare that to fighting games which are alive and kicking and have tons of viewership and are 1v1 https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/151-starcraft-ii/eventsWhat fighting games? Fighting games don't even get 1/4th of the yearly prize money SC2 does. Street Fighter V is at 630k, Melee ~500k, Tekken 140k. Granted SF might get +200k because their biggest tournament is in December, but still my point stands. prize money is a terrible metric for how big an esports is because a lot of it depends on how much money the company is willing to spend on it. Without blizzard money SC2 prize money wouldn't be very high. Also Dota has by far the highest prize pools but nobody would argue it's a bigger esport than LoL. It's still be in the 2 million dollar range. I think Blizzard puts in around 2 million , not including the crowdfunding from the battle chests. It's still a significant metric, I wouldn't consider it terrible.
Yeah if you disregard the money the devs invest into prizepools this metric gets some significance.
Also I didn't mean to declare sc2 dead I just explained why this metric you chose is meaningless.
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On November 15 2017 18:30 Unreflecting wrote:
Is this not the second time the author uses a really clickbait-ish title? Also, what was the point? This was well written, as usual, but I did not enjoy. Would not recommend.
Also, BW lasted eleven years. SC2 making it to 2020 would mean it lasted ten years, give or take. Why did that user get a warning?
Brood War didn't "last" 11 years, it was replaced after 11 years. Brood War is still going despite being pushed out.
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The title killed me too. Haven't kept as close lately but WCS and homestory were great to come back too.
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Finland964 Posts
On November 16 2017 06:46 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2017 18:30 Unreflecting wrote:
Is this not the second time the author uses a really clickbait-ish title? Also, what was the point? This was well written, as usual, but I did not enjoy. Would not recommend.
Also, BW lasted eleven years. SC2 making it to 2020 would mean it lasted ten years, give or take. Why did that user get a warning? Brood War didn't "last" 11 years, it was replaced after 11 years. Brood War is still going despite being pushed out.
Doom still sees a plethora of content and players every year, and it was released in 1993. Doesn't mean it's not a niche game.
Of course, finding a great niche is not necessarily a bad thing. Unless there's a huge resurgence of players, SC2 will also eventually shrink, and maybe it will find its own niche.
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On November 14 2017 10:34 RCCar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2017 07:52 DSK wrote:
Might I ask who Jiwoo is? Why do I feel like a complete idiot for not knowing who that is?. He's the korean name for Ash in pokemon- other then that i don't know any Jiwoos in gaming either
Thanks RCCar, I guess that makes a bit more sense  .
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