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Rogue: Climbing the Ladder - Rank 2 - Road to BlizzCon

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Rogue: Climbing the Ladder - Rank 2 - Road to BlizzCon

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byshiroiusagi
October 24th, 2017 15:22 GMT
Photo Credit: Shayla
Rogue
Lee Byung Ryul


Climbing the Ladder


by Olli


Banelings waddle up the natural ramp, looking for any potential connection. It makes little difference at this point, the game is Rogue's. A massive army of hydralisks and queens forces its way up, shooting down all interceptors before they can do any harm. herO realizes his defeat and concedes. Rogue has qualified for the WCS Global Finals. On match point, with his back against the wall, against one of the most dangerous players in StarCraft II, Rogue has done what seemed impossible only a few weeks ago. When all odds were stacked against him, Rogue pulled through.

His rather weak 2600 WCS points are boosted massively by two tournament victories towards the end of the year—IEM Shanghai and GSL Super Tournament. Had Rogue not won both of them, he would not be here. That BlizzCon qualifying run, stretching across two championships, included wins over (T)GuMiho, (P)Stats, (Z)Dark, (T)ByuN, (P)herO, (T)Maru, (P)Dear, (T)INnoVation, and (P)herO again. Had Rogue lost any of these series, he would not be here. So is this just who Rogue is now? A player who, when the clutch is required, performs to the very best of his ability and outplays even the best in the world? We commonly associated these last minute runs with his team-mate sOs, a player that specializes in bringing out the best when it counts. It appears we must begin to describe Rogue in similar terms.

"Is this just who Rogue is now? A player who, when the clutch is required, performs to the very best of his ability and outplays even the best in the world?"
But how did this happen? At the start of the year, Rogue crashed out of the GSL in the first round and did not even qualify for SSL. There was talk of him playing more Overwatch than StarCraft II, and even retirement was murmured to be an option for him. When Rogue tore his path through the IEM Shanghai championship to win his first ever trophy, he appeared a fundamentally changed player. Instead of relying on trickery and deception, Rogue outplayed his opponents in standard games. He exploited every chink in their armor, made subtle but intelligent adjustments and simply outclassed them. He brought to the table the kind of standard finesse we usually associate with Zergs like (Z)Dark and (Z)soO, but not Rogue. How did he go from a Proleague wildcard to a sturdy macro player?


Rogue overcomes INnoVation in standard macro games.




Winrate


60.13% vs. Terran
65.22% vs. Protoss
64.06% vs. Zerg

Rank


Circuit Standings
8

WCS Points


5600



The answer is quite simple. When Rogue won IEM Shanghai, he had been top of the Korean ladder for a good amount of time. His MMR then—and now—is astonishing. Rogue regularly occupies the top spots on the Korean ladder with not one, but two accounts at, and sometimes above, 7000 MMR. To put that in comparison, Serral and ShoWTimE were hailed in the international scene for reaching that mark in Europe. Rogue did it in Korea, where the best players in the world hold their practice sessions, and held that high MMR for months straight. This meant that he consistently played against only the very best in the scene—the INnoVations, the soOs, the Darks and the Stats of the world. His skill guaranteed him an even better practice situation, and improved him yet again.

It is time to start looking towards the Korean ladder as a valuable indicator of skill. "Ladder doesn't matter" is foolish commentary. Nonsense. All the best Korean players have, for years, said in interviews that ladder is their primary tool for practice. They take it seriously. And as such, the examples of players reaching top spots on the Korean ladder and then carrying that skill over into tournaments is extremely long. Then-(P)Liquid'HerO reached the top of the Korean ladder before his breakout performances at Dreamhack, MLG and NASL. IM_(P)Seed's GSL championship was predated by a surge to #1 on ladder. (T)Maru's Starleague championship shortly after the beta of Heart of the Swarm was only shocking to those that had not followed his absurd ladder record at the time. (P)Zest's all-kill against SKT, his GSL championship following immediately after, as well as his domination of 2014 as a whole were all accompanied by him holding the top spot on the Korean ladder for almost the whole year. (T)TY and (P)Stats battled for the top spot early this year, when TY won WESG and IEM Katowice and Stats took home his GSL Championship. (T)INnoVation, in his stretch of dominance this year, was second only to Rogue on ladder. Rogue himself is only the latest in a long, long list of champions built on the Korean ladder.

Rogue's self-reinvention happened behind closed doors, and we had little chance to witness it. The WCS system is partially to blame—a player who loses early in a season has very few competitions to play in for a long time. But the signs were there. His sustained high ladder ranking should have been the indicator we needed that things were beginning to look up for Rogue. And they sure did. Rogue used his time out of the spotlight superbly. He fixed tendencies that kept him down and replaced them with better. No longer will he rely on specially crafted builds that fall apart if countered correctly. He now appears entirely confident in his own skill and ability to outplay even the very best in the world, and plays accordingly. No longer is he the player who was sent out specifically to snipe certain opponents on certain maps by his team in Proleague, but he is now a player you would send out against anyone—because he is that good. And he finally has the championship trophies to prove it.

And so it happens that Rogue, a player who, until the very last map we saw him play, had not even qualified for BlizzCon, enters the tournament as one of its greatest favorites. No other player in the world can claim to possess the same form Rogue is in at the moment. But form is temporary. Class is permanent. Now is the time for Rogue to show that he is not a one-time appearance, and that he does not run purely on form. All the signs for true greatness and skill are there. Now is the time to show his true class.








Writer: Olli
Editor: Zealously, munch
Photo Credit: DreamHack, Shayla
Statistics: Aligulac
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TL+ Member
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
October 24 2017 15:27 GMT
#2
Great article, rogue is a hell of a story
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13974 Posts
October 24 2017 15:28 GMT
#3
Rogue is looking damn good, but will be go full dear...
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
October 24 2017 15:31 GMT
#4
Rogue may not be the best, but he will be one of the greatest!
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
October 24 2017 15:36 GMT
#5
Since KR ladder ranks matter, does that mean 7k MMR number 1 GM Serral will crush Gumi?
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 24 2017 15:37 GMT
#6
On October 25 2017 00:36 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Since KR ladder ranks matter, does that mean 7k MMR number 1 GM Serral will crush Gumi?


Yes
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
October 24 2017 15:37 GMT
#7
On October 25 2017 00:36 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Since KR ladder ranks matter, does that mean 7k MMR number 1 GM Serral will crush Gumi?

Zest will win Blizzcon :O
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
October 24 2017 15:47 GMT
#8
Weird how half of the article is talking about how KR ladder is the best thing since sliced bread and a true indicator of skill, but Serral topping it doesn't even make him top 10.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
hexhaven
Profile Joined July 2014
Finland931 Posts
October 24 2017 15:53 GMT
#9
Taking bets on who the last article is about!
WriterI shoot events. | http://www.jussi.co/esports
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
October 24 2017 15:56 GMT
#10
On October 25 2017 00:47 Morbidius wrote:
Weird how half of the article is talking about how KR ladder is the best thing since sliced bread and a true indicator of skill, but Serral topping it doesn't even make him top 10.


What I hear is that Serral's rank is inflated due to holidays in Korea where nobody practiced. In Rogue's case, his ladder skill translated over into tournaments - Serral's hasn't (yet). I do think it will soon though.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
October 24 2017 16:03 GMT
#11
Uh you guys made a mistake. You accidentally released the #1 player's article first and also mistitled it. Should say 1 instead of 2
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
engesser1
Profile Blog Joined December 2016
264 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-24 16:25:32
October 24 2017 16:14 GMT
#12
In my opinion, KR ladder is a little bit different than EU. This is not about how bad or good they are, it's all about non-standard games. I saw only on the KR ladder, godlike games (rare to see some tricks, micro while you speaking on a phone or weird macro games and more). As for me, Rogue, as like as Maru or sOs, the real high MMR players. They are ready to show you how to deal with every kind of anything. Naturally born geniuses that is what you can see behind KR MMR ladder.
Hope, Rogue vs Dark in final.
And yes, Rogue #1.
This photo is so cool. Best part of article.
Maru, he is the reason why i'm still playing and watching sc2
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
October 24 2017 16:22 GMT
#13
So INno will be arriving at Anaheim as the favorite for the third time lets hope he can finally have a good performance.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4939 Posts
October 24 2017 16:25 GMT
#14
youtu.be


"From #1 in the ladder to #1 in IEM shanghai to #1 in our hearts"

Indeed Artosis Indeed
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 24 2017 16:26 GMT
#15
Inb4 this thread devolves into raging about Inno as #1 instead of actually talking about Rogue
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
October 24 2017 16:26 GMT
#16
On October 25 2017 00:53 hexhaven wrote:
Taking bets on who the last article is about!

TaeJa?
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
curufinwe_wins
Profile Joined August 2017
68 Posts
October 24 2017 16:30 GMT
#17
On October 25 2017 00:47 Morbidius wrote:
Weird how half of the article is talking about how KR ladder is the best thing since sliced bread and a true indicator of skill, but Serral topping it doesn't even make him top 10.



Well remember Neeb has held a top 10 korean ladder literally continously since Sept 2016... With numerous forays into the #1 spot.

Also Zest has held top protoss honors quite a proportion of the time on ladder.
yht9657
Profile Joined December 2016
1810 Posts
October 24 2017 16:31 GMT
#18
I actually thought the last 2 articles would be released together...
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-24 16:48:40
October 24 2017 16:44 GMT
#19
I'm glad people aren't giving undue attention to the ramblings of some writer and properly focusing on what really matters, the ordering of players
AdministratorBreak the chains
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
October 24 2017 17:12 GMT
#20
I will be honest, i think the ladder "rant" should have been a seperate article. It feels a bit too much center of attention here for my liking. Not that it ruins the article, but i would have prefered a little less of that personally.
Still a good read though, i didn't comment a lot on the articles this year but i really enjoyed the road to blizzcon series again, thanks for doing it!

About the PR, i think the top 3 or so players could be in any order and you could make cases for it, so it doesn't really matter too much
With that being said, if you guys really care so much about PRs, then do your own here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/527600-community-pr-v8-a-new-chance-for-foreigners
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
October 24 2017 17:14 GMT
#21
Rogue's comeback is so great, such a great player to watch in top form. Hyped to see his play!
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
October 24 2017 17:15 GMT
#22
Sad that there was no liquidbets involved
TL+ Member
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 24 2017 17:21 GMT
#23
On October 25 2017 01:26 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2017 00:53 hexhaven wrote:
Taking bets on who the last article is about!

TaeJa?

REEEE TL bias

Obviously the last article will be on the Cripple-Who-Is-A-God-But-Not-Just-Because-Is-Crippled-Well-Maybe-Kinda Mvp
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
franzji
Profile Joined September 2013
United States583 Posts
October 24 2017 17:27 GMT
#24
>A player who, when the clutch is required, performs to the very best of his ability and outplays even the best in the world

he shouldn't have lost to stats in season 3 gsl then, lol. He's so lucky he barely pulled out a 3-2 and a 4-3 at super tournament, I would say this is the most overrated player I've seen in a while.
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-24 18:09:36
October 24 2017 18:03 GMT
#25
I don't think Inno deserves #1, just because he sucks when he's not playing in Korea, all the beatdowns he got from Life and Taeja are more than enough evidence.

On October 25 2017 01:44 Zealously wrote:
I'm glad people aren't giving undue attention to the ramblings of some writer and properly focusing on what really matters, the ordering of players


Because these articles are mostly obtuse ramblings that try to build fake narratives. Hell we have better GSL RO32 previews than this.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
October 24 2017 18:08 GMT
#26
i would have never expected once rogue being so high in a ranking and such a contender, good for him
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
October 24 2017 18:31 GMT
#27
I really, really, really hope that nr 1 is some fucking nonsense bamboozle concept like "hope" or "the viewers" or something like that :D :D :D
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 24 2017 18:33 GMT
#28
#1 should be sOs because he's clearly gonna win this year
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-24 18:39:52
October 24 2017 18:38 GMT
#29
#1 is either Taeja or Mvp, as the only players who could ever possibly be considered for GOAT
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28477 Posts
October 24 2017 18:38 GMT
#30
aww, I hoped for a rank 1 for max triggering
I Protoss winner, could it be?
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-24 18:43:25
October 24 2017 18:41 GMT
#31
On October 25 2017 03:38 pvsnp wrote:
#1 is either Taeja or Mvp, as the only players who could ever possibly be considered for GOAT



Mvp deserves it more because wow he was so good in 2011.

But what about INno's non participation to the blizzcon even if he had a spot because of his gsl ? Or Olli thinks he is out of top 16 ?
TL+ Member
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16071 Posts
October 24 2017 19:05 GMT
#32
On October 25 2017 03:38 pvsnp wrote:
#1 is either Taeja or Mvp, as the only players who could ever possibly be considered for GOAT


Is this sarcasm? This ranking is just for the upcoming Blizzcon tournament.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 24 2017 19:09 GMT
#33
On October 25 2017 04:05 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2017 03:38 pvsnp wrote:
#1 is either Taeja or Mvp, as the only players who could ever possibly be considered for GOAT


Is this sarcasm? This ranking is just for the upcoming Blizzcon tournament.

Yes it is sarcasm, I was following Fango who declared sOs (another player not attending Blizzcon) to be #1 in the PR
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
October 24 2017 19:35 GMT
#34
way too high
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
October 24 2017 19:35 GMT
#35
On October 25 2017 04:05 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2017 03:38 pvsnp wrote:
#1 is either Taeja or Mvp, as the only players who could ever possibly be considered for GOAT


Is this sarcasm? This ranking is just for the upcoming Blizzcon tournament.

no you're just a taeja hater
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
October 24 2017 19:53 GMT
#36
On October 25 2017 03:03 Morbidius wrote:
I don't think Inno deserves #1, just because he sucks when he's not playing in Korea, all the beatdowns he got from Life and Taeja are more than enough evidence.

Show nested quote +
On October 25 2017 01:44 Zealously wrote:
I'm glad people aren't giving undue attention to the ramblings of some writer and properly focusing on what really matters, the ordering of players


Because these articles are mostly obtuse ramblings that try to build fake narratives. Hell we have better GSL RO32 previews than this.


I'm not sure what you mean by fake narrative, honestly, but I'm interested in finding out. To me that implies a dishonesty in how a player is portrayed, and while I agree that TL previews can be far-fetched, I would rarely call them dishonest. Will you elaborate?
AdministratorBreak the chains
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-24 20:10:47
October 24 2017 19:59 GMT
#37
On October 25 2017 04:53 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2017 03:03 Morbidius wrote:
I don't think Inno deserves #1, just because he sucks when he's not playing in Korea, all the beatdowns he got from Life and Taeja are more than enough evidence.

On October 25 2017 01:44 Zealously wrote:
I'm glad people aren't giving undue attention to the ramblings of some writer and properly focusing on what really matters, the ordering of players


Because these articles are mostly obtuse ramblings that try to build fake narratives. Hell we have better GSL RO32 previews than this.


I'm not sure what you mean by fake narrative, honestly, but I'm interested in finding out. To me that implies a dishonesty in how a player is portrayed, and while I agree that TL previews can be far-fetched, I would rarely call them dishonest. Will you elaborate?

You put it quite well, i'm not saying they're dishonest, just far-fetched and too emotional/dramatic. Giving soO or Snute such protrayal is fine, but it gets old when the previews portray all 16 players in such a way.
Also some more about their playstyle would be great: What are their strenghts? Their weaknesses? What makes them different? What were their best games this year?
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Mun_Su
Profile Joined December 2012
France2063 Posts
October 24 2017 20:21 GMT
#38
can't wait for INno's one !
INno <3 - TY - Maru - Taeja - Rain <3 - Classic <3 - Stephano <3 - soO <3 - Soulkey - Dark - SERRAL =O / END REGION LOCK
frazzle
Profile Joined June 2012
United States468 Posts
October 24 2017 21:14 GMT
#39
Too bad the article fails to mention how Rogue was one hold position ling away from the semi's in GSL Season 2. He was on fire back then too.
Mun_Su
Profile Joined December 2012
France2063 Posts
October 24 2017 21:17 GMT
#40
First time I saw Rogue playing was in proleague game, Savage vs INnoVation; and despite INno's win (he was da TvZ god of 2013) I was rather impressed by the agressive style and the multitasking of Savage/Rogue
INno <3 - TY - Maru - Taeja - Rain <3 - Classic <3 - Stephano <3 - soO <3 - Soulkey - Dark - SERRAL =O / END REGION LOCK
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
October 24 2017 21:20 GMT
#41
On October 25 2017 00:53 hexhaven wrote:
Taking bets on who the last article is about!

Life?
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
October 24 2017 21:31 GMT
#42
How about this, assuming INnoVation is #1, any bets what the title would be?

My takes:
1. INnoVation: The Man, The Machine - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon
2. INnoVation: Pure Domination - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon
3. INnoVation: The Baby-Faced Destroyer - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-24 21:59:49
October 24 2017 21:54 GMT
#43
On October 25 2017 06:31 Twinkle Toes wrote:
How about this, assuming INnoVation is #1, any bets what the title would be?

My takes:
1. INnoVation: The Man, The Machine - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon
2. INnoVation: Pure Domination - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon
3. INnoVation: The Baby-Faced Destroyer - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon

Should fortune smile upon us, stuchiu will bestir himself and write an amazing article like the ones we used to get back in the glory days of yesteryear. More likely mizen or hex will write the article (nothing against them, but I always did like stuchiu's writing the most).

As far as titles go, the subtitle is the only unique bit so I will just specify that:

1. The Man, The Myth, The Machine
2. The Empty Throne
3. Dictator of Terran
4. Leaving a Legacy
5. Threshold of Immortality
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Sakat
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
Croatia1599 Posts
October 24 2017 21:55 GMT
#44
On October 25 2017 06:31 Twinkle Toes wrote:
How about this, assuming INnoVation is #1, any bets what the title would be?

My takes:
1. INnoVation: The Man, The Machine - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon
2. INnoVation: Pure Domination - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon
3. INnoVation: The Baby-Faced Destroyer - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon

Definitely number one.

But I wouldn't mind "The Dictator of Terran" as the GSL named him
My boy Ptak defeated two GSL champions!
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
October 24 2017 22:03 GMT
#45
Inno needs to win Blizzcon for the sake of the community.

The furiously controversial GOAT discussion that follows will revive the passion of all esports nerds here assembled.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 24 2017 22:42 GMT
#46
Rogue has ascended to macro godhood but he hasn't completely abandoned his unique builds and strategies. Countering a carrier transition by making swarmhosts was not even close to standard.

My one fear as a huge Rogue fanboy is whether he got complacent after qualifying for the WCS Finals. It would be understandable considering his murderous path to get there but it would be sad. If he plays at that level, I think he's the Blizzcon favorite.
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
October 24 2017 23:32 GMT
#47
Rogue is super super good right now but I have a slight worry that he might not perform at Blizzcon. Obviously, he has the skill to win it, but it's a super stacked tournament and many of these players are capable of beating each other. Rogue might be one of the "favourites" but that doesn't mean that much in such a high level tournament.

My favourite Rogue game is still the game against herO when he went hydra bane rain on Cloud Kingdom (i think). That was so sick.
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
Loccstana
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States833 Posts
October 24 2017 23:43 GMT
#48
Innovation: The second coming of Flash
[url]http://i.imgur.com/lw2yN.jpg[/url]
BigRedDog
Profile Joined May 2012
461 Posts
October 24 2017 23:50 GMT
#49
The match between innovation and Rogue shows Rogue has the potential to go toe to toe with Innovation.

Can't wait to see how he performs in blizzcon.

I still remembered Rogue giving a smirk to the camera in a zvz game when he built swarm hosts to counter roach and hydras. So creative!
Big Red Dog!
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
October 25 2017 01:31 GMT
#50
On October 25 2017 08:50 BigRedDog wrote:
So creative!

Let's not apply that insult of TLO onto Rogue who has actually won something of note in his life.
beepbeeeeeeep
Profile Joined February 2017
145 Posts
October 25 2017 02:09 GMT
#51
sOs #1 confirmed
kyomezzo
Profile Joined February 2014
57 Posts
October 25 2017 02:18 GMT
#52
Am I the only one who came here just to check how HerO was mentioned? LOL
Brain Zerg is back <3
nabresrotciv
Profile Joined September 2012
United Kingdom32 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-25 02:47:44
October 25 2017 02:44 GMT
#53
On October 25 2017 04:59 Morbidius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2017 04:53 Zealously wrote:
On October 25 2017 03:03 Morbidius wrote:
I don't think Inno deserves #1, just because he sucks when he's not playing in Korea, all the beatdowns he got from Life and Taeja are more than enough evidence.

On October 25 2017 01:44 Zealously wrote:
I'm glad people aren't giving undue attention to the ramblings of some writer and properly focusing on what really matters, the ordering of players


Because these articles are mostly obtuse ramblings that try to build fake narratives. Hell we have better GSL RO32 previews than this.


I'm not sure what you mean by fake narrative, honestly, but I'm interested in finding out. To me that implies a dishonesty in how a player is portrayed, and while I agree that TL previews can be far-fetched, I would rarely call them dishonest. Will you elaborate?

You put it quite well, i'm not saying they're dishonest, just far-fetched and too emotional/dramatic. Giving soO or Snute such protrayal is fine, but it gets old when the previews portray all 16 players in such a way.
Also some more about their playstyle would be great: What are their strenghts? Their weaknesses? What makes them different? What were their best games this year?



I’m so happy that you reached this point of discussion. I completely agree with whats being said here, I just don’t think sc2 scene is one to transition real sports or even other esports stupid lines, hype and introductions that have to sound epic, maybe one player out of them should
have been more than enough for those big words that never transcend reality “the monster”, “the KR ladder king”, “the machine”, who calls them that anyway? just nonsene. I’m just angry on how a game thats supposed to be played and watched by people averaging a higher iq than ones following a ball gets dragged in this miserable and idiotic far fetched media crap, you don’t fool us, never have and never will.
gg
Sakat
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
Croatia1599 Posts
October 25 2017 05:43 GMT
#54
On October 25 2017 08:32 blooblooblahblah wrote:
Rogue is super super good right now but I have a slight worry that he might not perform at Blizzcon. Obviously, he has the skill to win it, but it's a super stacked tournament and many of these players are capable of beating each other. Rogue might be one of the "favourites" but that doesn't mean that much in such a high level tournament.

My favourite Rogue game is still the game against herO when he went hydra bane rain on Cloud Kingdom (i think). That was so sick.

Echo. That's one of mine as well
My boy Ptak defeated two GSL champions!
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
October 25 2017 05:45 GMT
#55
On October 25 2017 11:44 nabresrotciv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2017 04:59 Morbidius wrote:
On October 25 2017 04:53 Zealously wrote:
On October 25 2017 03:03 Morbidius wrote:
I don't think Inno deserves #1, just because he sucks when he's not playing in Korea, all the beatdowns he got from Life and Taeja are more than enough evidence.

On October 25 2017 01:44 Zealously wrote:
I'm glad people aren't giving undue attention to the ramblings of some writer and properly focusing on what really matters, the ordering of players


Because these articles are mostly obtuse ramblings that try to build fake narratives. Hell we have better GSL RO32 previews than this.


I'm not sure what you mean by fake narrative, honestly, but I'm interested in finding out. To me that implies a dishonesty in how a player is portrayed, and while I agree that TL previews can be far-fetched, I would rarely call them dishonest. Will you elaborate?

You put it quite well, i'm not saying they're dishonest, just far-fetched and too emotional/dramatic. Giving soO or Snute such protrayal is fine, but it gets old when the previews portray all 16 players in such a way.
Also some more about their playstyle would be great: What are their strenghts? Their weaknesses? What makes them different? What were their best games this year?



I’m so happy that you reached this point of discussion. I completely agree with whats being said here, I just don’t think sc2 scene is one to transition real sports or even other esports stupid lines, hype and introductions that have to sound epic, maybe one player out of them should
have been more than enough for those big words that never transcend reality “the monster”, “the KR ladder king”, “the machine”, who calls them that anyway? just nonsene. I’m just angry on how a game thats supposed to be played and watched by people averaging a higher iq than ones following a ball gets dragged in this miserable and idiotic far fetched media crap, you don’t fool us, never have and never will.


Why would Starcraft watching imply you're smarter than people watching football?
col_jung
Profile Joined October 2017
139 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-25 23:42:37
October 25 2017 06:10 GMT
#56
Met him at the GSL Super Tournament recently. Very nice bloke. Behind the scenes there:
Drfilip
Profile Joined March 2013
Sweden590 Posts
October 25 2017 06:48 GMT
#57
On October 25 2017 06:31 Twinkle Toes wrote:
How about this, assuming INnoVation is #1, any bets what the title would be?

My takes:
1. INnoVation: The Man, The Machine - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon
2. INnoVation: Pure Domination - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon
3. INnoVation: The Baby-Faced Destroyer - Rank 1 - Road to Blizzcon

Anatomy of a player, by Waxangel
Random Platinum EU
EEk1TwEEk
Profile Joined June 2017
Russian Federation144 Posts
October 25 2017 06:52 GMT
#58
Great article!
In my opinion one of the most notable evolutions of a player: from being a trickster to a solid macro player.
This man suffers from a bad heart, but I have plenty of medicine.
EEk1TwEEk
Profile Joined June 2017
Russian Federation144 Posts
October 25 2017 06:53 GMT
#59
On October 25 2017 08:32 blooblooblahblah wrote:
My favourite Rogue game is still the game against herO when he went hydra bane rain on Cloud Kingdom (i think). That was so sick.


That was the sickest moment of SC2 HOtS ))
This man suffers from a bad heart, but I have plenty of medicine.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
October 25 2017 07:17 GMT
#60
On October 25 2017 14:45 Heartland wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2017 11:44 nabresrotciv wrote:
On October 25 2017 04:59 Morbidius wrote:
On October 25 2017 04:53 Zealously wrote:
On October 25 2017 03:03 Morbidius wrote:
I don't think Inno deserves #1, just because he sucks when he's not playing in Korea, all the beatdowns he got from Life and Taeja are more than enough evidence.

On October 25 2017 01:44 Zealously wrote:
I'm glad people aren't giving undue attention to the ramblings of some writer and properly focusing on what really matters, the ordering of players


Because these articles are mostly obtuse ramblings that try to build fake narratives. Hell we have better GSL RO32 previews than this.


I'm not sure what you mean by fake narrative, honestly, but I'm interested in finding out. To me that implies a dishonesty in how a player is portrayed, and while I agree that TL previews can be far-fetched, I would rarely call them dishonest. Will you elaborate?

You put it quite well, i'm not saying they're dishonest, just far-fetched and too emotional/dramatic. Giving soO or Snute such protrayal is fine, but it gets old when the previews portray all 16 players in such a way.
Also some more about their playstyle would be great: What are their strenghts? Their weaknesses? What makes them different? What were their best games this year?



I’m so happy that you reached this point of discussion. I completely agree with whats being said here, I just don’t think sc2 scene is one to transition real sports or even other esports stupid lines, hype and introductions that have to sound epic, maybe one player out of them should
have been more than enough for those big words that never transcend reality “the monster”, “the KR ladder king”, “the machine”, who calls them that anyway? just nonsene. I’m just angry on how a game thats supposed to be played and watched by people averaging a higher iq than ones following a ball gets dragged in this miserable and idiotic far fetched media crap, you don’t fool us, never have and never will.


Why would Starcraft watching imply you're smarter than people watching football?

Because if you are a miserable neckbeard with no interest or ability to perform in physical sports, you're obviously a superior intelectual? Duh.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24580 Posts
October 25 2017 19:10 GMT
#61
On October 25 2017 16:17 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2017 14:45 Heartland wrote:
On October 25 2017 11:44 nabresrotciv wrote:
On October 25 2017 04:59 Morbidius wrote:
On October 25 2017 04:53 Zealously wrote:
On October 25 2017 03:03 Morbidius wrote:
I don't think Inno deserves #1, just because he sucks when he's not playing in Korea, all the beatdowns he got from Life and Taeja are more than enough evidence.

On October 25 2017 01:44 Zealously wrote:
I'm glad people aren't giving undue attention to the ramblings of some writer and properly focusing on what really matters, the ordering of players


Because these articles are mostly obtuse ramblings that try to build fake narratives. Hell we have better GSL RO32 previews than this.


I'm not sure what you mean by fake narrative, honestly, but I'm interested in finding out. To me that implies a dishonesty in how a player is portrayed, and while I agree that TL previews can be far-fetched, I would rarely call them dishonest. Will you elaborate?

You put it quite well, i'm not saying they're dishonest, just far-fetched and too emotional/dramatic. Giving soO or Snute such protrayal is fine, but it gets old when the previews portray all 16 players in such a way.
Also some more about their playstyle would be great: What are their strenghts? Their weaknesses? What makes them different? What were their best games this year?



I’m so happy that you reached this point of discussion. I completely agree with whats being said here, I just don’t think sc2 scene is one to transition real sports or even other esports stupid lines, hype and introductions that have to sound epic, maybe one player out of them should
have been more than enough for those big words that never transcend reality “the monster”, “the KR ladder king”, “the machine”, who calls them that anyway? just nonsene. I’m just angry on how a game thats supposed to be played and watched by people averaging a higher iq than ones following a ball gets dragged in this miserable and idiotic far fetched media crap, you don’t fool us, never have and never will.


Why would Starcraft watching imply you're smarter than people watching football?

Because if you are a miserable neckbeard with no interest or ability to perform in physical sports, you're obviously a superior intelectual? Duh.


Please, playing computer games doesn't show you're smart.

Watching Rick & Morty does.
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-25 19:35:33
October 25 2017 19:33 GMT
#62
On October 26 2017 04:10 Heartland wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2017 16:17 Ej_ wrote:
On October 25 2017 14:45 Heartland wrote:
On October 25 2017 11:44 nabresrotciv wrote:
On October 25 2017 04:59 Morbidius wrote:
On October 25 2017 04:53 Zealously wrote:
On October 25 2017 03:03 Morbidius wrote:
I don't think Inno deserves #1, just because he sucks when he's not playing in Korea, all the beatdowns he got from Life and Taeja are more than enough evidence.

On October 25 2017 01:44 Zealously wrote:
I'm glad people aren't giving undue attention to the ramblings of some writer and properly focusing on what really matters, the ordering of players


Because these articles are mostly obtuse ramblings that try to build fake narratives. Hell we have better GSL RO32 previews than this.


I'm not sure what you mean by fake narrative, honestly, but I'm interested in finding out. To me that implies a dishonesty in how a player is portrayed, and while I agree that TL previews can be far-fetched, I would rarely call them dishonest. Will you elaborate?

You put it quite well, i'm not saying they're dishonest, just far-fetched and too emotional/dramatic. Giving soO or Snute such protrayal is fine, but it gets old when the previews portray all 16 players in such a way.
Also some more about their playstyle would be great: What are their strenghts? Their weaknesses? What makes them different? What were their best games this year?



I’m so happy that you reached this point of discussion. I completely agree with whats being said here, I just don’t think sc2 scene is one to transition real sports or even other esports stupid lines, hype and introductions that have to sound epic, maybe one player out of them should
have been more than enough for those big words that never transcend reality “the monster”, “the KR ladder king”, “the machine”, who calls them that anyway? just nonsene. I’m just angry on how a game thats supposed to be played and watched by people averaging a higher iq than ones following a ball gets dragged in this miserable and idiotic far fetched media crap, you don’t fool us, never have and never will.


Why would Starcraft watching imply you're smarter than people watching football?

Because if you are a miserable neckbeard with no interest or ability to perform in physical sports, you're obviously a superior intelectual? Duh.


Please, playing computer games doesn't show you're smart.

Watching Rick & Morty does.

Obligatory:

"To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer’s head. There’s also Rick’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they’re not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick & Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick’s existential catchphrase “Wubba Lubba Dub Dub,” which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev’s Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon’s genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Rick & Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the ladies’ eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they’re within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎"



Disclaimer: I've never watched an episode in my life and wouldn't be able to tell you which one is Rick/Morty.


User was warned for this post
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
October 26 2017 11:31 GMT
#63
I think it is safe to say there was no consistent formula for ranking these players. If it was recent form nobody is better than Hero. If it was for consistent performance Stats should be #1. Incorporating ladder into the discussion is silly. Guys will GG on ladder games in 2 seconds if a build doesn't work out or a proxy is discovered. That was a familiar refrain on the Zest FC, boy is he killing iot on ladder!

I found Olli's contention that Neeb was mopping up on Korean ladder on Korean holiday's very humorous. Dude are you serious?

Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-26 12:24:59
October 26 2017 12:22 GMT
#64
On October 26 2017 20:31 Rolltide wrote:
I think it is safe to say there was no consistent formula for ranking these players. If it was recent form nobody is better than Hero. If it was for consistent performance Stats should be #1. Incorporating ladder into the discussion is silly. Guys will GG on ladder games in 2 seconds if a build doesn't work out or a proxy is discovered. That was a familiar refrain on the Zest FC, boy is he killing iot on ladder!

I found Olli's contention that Neeb was mopping up on Korean ladder on Korean holiday's very humorous. Dude are you serious?



Master's Coliseum happened after we finalized the ranking and started writing. The formula for all PRs has always been the same. Ladder doesn't factor into it, btw. Which is why Serral isn't ranked higher.

If you don't agree with it, fair enough.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
October 26 2017 17:15 GMT
#65
I understand. Without MC 2 Rogue ranked #2 makes more sense.

Good writing on Innovation by the way.





Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
October 26 2017 17:23 GMT
#66
I'm working 13 hours tomorrow so I'll miss group A&B but will see C&D on Saturday. No question the hottest ticket is Neeb vs Rogue. Everybody wants to see that one. Neeb destroyed Snute in Montreal and beat a surging Serral in Jonkoping. He certainly knows PvZ. That's going to be a good one.

Will not be Lilbow vs Life circa 2015.
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
October 26 2017 17:26 GMT
#67
On October 27 2017 02:23 Rolltide wrote:
I'm working 13 hours tomorrow so I'll miss group A&B but will see C&D on Saturday. No question the hottest ticket is Neeb vs Rogue. Everybody wants to see that one. Neeb destroyed Snute in Montreal and beat a surging Serral in Jonkoping. He certainly knows PvZ. That's going to be a good one.

Will not be Lilbow vs Life circa 2015.

Yeah, it'll be like Neeb vs Dark circa 2016
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
washikie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States752 Posts
October 26 2017 19:21 GMT
#68
this guys is going to win blizcon. hes looked totally untouchable recently, maybe the only thing he could lose is a zvz.
"when life gives Hero lemons he makes carriers" -Artosis
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 26 2017 20:39 GMT
#69
On October 27 2017 04:21 washikie wrote:
this guys is going to win blizcon. hes looked totally untouchable recently, maybe the only thing he could lose is a zvz.


Untouchable is a bit far. His series against Stats, Inno, and herO all went to the final map. They could easily have gone either way
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
October 27 2017 07:05 GMT
#70
Yeah, it'll be like Neeb vs Dark circa 2016


Dark then was better than Rogue now. Dark now is better than Rogue now in my opinion.

Neeb is definitely better than he was last year.
Rolltide
Profile Joined May 2017
United States447 Posts
October 28 2017 13:56 GMT
#71
Neeb vs Rogue. One of the best series and one of the best maps in the history of esports and Starcraft!
Mun_Su
Profile Joined December 2012
France2063 Posts
October 28 2017 14:07 GMT
#72
On October 26 2017 04:33 pvsnp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2017 04:10 Heartland wrote:
On October 25 2017 16:17 Ej_ wrote:
On October 25 2017 14:45 Heartland wrote:
On October 25 2017 11:44 nabresrotciv wrote:
On October 25 2017 04:59 Morbidius wrote:
On October 25 2017 04:53 Zealously wrote:
On October 25 2017 03:03 Morbidius wrote:
I don't think Inno deserves #1, just because he sucks when he's not playing in Korea, all the beatdowns he got from Life and Taeja are more than enough evidence.

On October 25 2017 01:44 Zealously wrote:
I'm glad people aren't giving undue attention to the ramblings of some writer and properly focusing on what really matters, the ordering of players


Because these articles are mostly obtuse ramblings that try to build fake narratives. Hell we have better GSL RO32 previews than this.


I'm not sure what you mean by fake narrative, honestly, but I'm interested in finding out. To me that implies a dishonesty in how a player is portrayed, and while I agree that TL previews can be far-fetched, I would rarely call them dishonest. Will you elaborate?

You put it quite well, i'm not saying they're dishonest, just far-fetched and too emotional/dramatic. Giving soO or Snute such protrayal is fine, but it gets old when the previews portray all 16 players in such a way.
Also some more about their playstyle would be great: What are their strenghts? Their weaknesses? What makes them different? What were their best games this year?



I’m so happy that you reached this point of discussion. I completely agree with whats being said here, I just don’t think sc2 scene is one to transition real sports or even other esports stupid lines, hype and introductions that have to sound epic, maybe one player out of them should
have been more than enough for those big words that never transcend reality “the monster”, “the KR ladder king”, “the machine”, who calls them that anyway? just nonsene. I’m just angry on how a game thats supposed to be played and watched by people averaging a higher iq than ones following a ball gets dragged in this miserable and idiotic far fetched media crap, you don’t fool us, never have and never will.


Why would Starcraft watching imply you're smarter than people watching football?

Because if you are a miserable neckbeard with no interest or ability to perform in physical sports, you're obviously a superior intelectual? Duh.


Please, playing computer games doesn't show you're smart.

Watching Rick & Morty does.

Obligatory:

"To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer’s head. There’s also Rick’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they’re not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick & Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick’s existential catchphrase “Wubba Lubba Dub Dub,” which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev’s Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon’s genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Rick & Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It’s for the ladies’ eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they’re within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎"



Disclaimer: I've never watched an episode in my life and wouldn't be able to tell you which one is Rick/Morty.


User was warned for this post



Why warning ?

On October 28 2017 22:56 Rolltide wrote:
Neeb vs Rogue. One of the best series and one of the best maps in the history of esports and Starcraft!


Really ? which map ? The last one was incredible boring, it embodied what is wrong in sc2, hour of dodging armees then 15 seconds of fight...
INno <3 - TY - Maru - Taeja - Rain <3 - Classic <3 - Stephano <3 - soO <3 - Soulkey - Dark - SERRAL =O / END REGION LOCK
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