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On September 23 2017 15:20 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2017 03:58 Athenau wrote:On September 23 2017 03:21 Tyrhanius wrote:On September 22 2017 23:37 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 22:05 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 21:27 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 20:50 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 12:18 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 11:25 Finch518 wrote:On September 22 2017 11:07 youngjiddle wrote:
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Have you considered the possibility that you are bad and haven't used the correct counter play yet. Funny because Scarlett made all these same points on reddit the other day, i guess shes bad and doesnt have the counter play yet either? Neither does Rogue, or SoO too amirite? Ah yes Scarlett the zerg who is queen of balance whining about protoss and SoO the zerg who wants the hydra range buff, I don't take any pro players opinions very strongly. If protoss was really that strong Scarlett would be able to play it at a high level too right? Oh wait, she does exactly that, even entering tournaments as protoss and defeating other progamers. I bet you take Avilo's opinions strongly tho, you look the type. Maybe her playing decently with Protoss is because she trains Protoss ? Because her zerg games have been very very disappointing lately. How can we even say Protoss is strong anyway when Neeb is literally the only Protoss in every WCS this year to go further than Ro8 .. When the 7 other players are always 6 zergs and 1 terran with Kelazhur or Major. Yeah that's another thing with this community, if ladder and tournaments don't have 33% of each race representation with 50% winrates at all times, the game is imbalanced, because players are robots. And the fact that Neeb only lost 2 games in that tournament doesn't matter. By your own logic, Zerg is underpowered right now, because in GSL Super Tournament we have 5 protoss, 6 terrans and only 3 zergs. You're that biased.. wow. We're not talking about 33% for each race in Eu. i'm talking about every WCS this year being 6 zergs in the last 8. But hey I guess it's just a coincidence we've had that since Lotv is out, Top EU Protoss & Terrans just stopped playing and got bad, while zergs all got suddenly better. Must be the answer.  Neeb losing 2 maps in the whole tournament isn't really a surprise when he just has to be good in PvZ because that's what he faces, literally only zergs the entire tournament. Don't blame Protoss just because one player does well. It's not a coincindence, Zergs on EU have always been really good, and now the region are locked, it's easier to reach RO16 because they don't meet a korean player that will destroy them. If the race were strong, they would have no problem winning all the foreigner tournaments, but actually they only won 3 tournaments while Protoss foreigners won 8, and even if you don't count Neeb; Showtime, Harstem and PetitDrogo won 4 tournaments. Terrans players may be not good on foreigners league, (uthermal has still won a tournament on LOTV, so he is not doing more poorly than Snute, Elazer or Nerchio), they are really strong in korea, big proof the race isn't weak, the problem is just who is behind the keyboard. The only thing i see here is you don't want to accept Zerg foreigners are good. Ah yes, foreign zergs are just better than foreign protosses or terrans. But if zerg players ever do poorly in Korea, it's the race, not Korean zergs being worse than their counterparts. What a ridiculous double standard. And according to you : Zerg are more numerous in foreigner leagues because they're OP, but in korea Terran are the best players... It makes no sense that only foreigner league is affected by balance, but not korea... It's also make no sense because the foreigners and the kor zerg players are exactly the same than on HOTS. You act like the Snute/nerchio/Scarlett are newcomers that never used to be good, and start to perform on LOTV, like Dark/Solar/Soo/Rogue were no name on HOTS and Terran players were always better... Who have heard about Byun before LOTV ? Who thought Gumiho can win GSL before LOTV, or TY two tournaments ? And Protoss foreigners perform better than Zerg on LOTV but you keep saying Zerg rules foreigners tournaments... They're a lot of zerg on foreigners tournaments because the good player from HOTS haven't stopped playing, but still despite you have 6-8 of the best Zerg on foreigners scene, protoss won most of the tournaments. On GSL, we used to see more Z/P than T, but right now Zerg is the less represented race. Also Zerg breaks a record this year, and had the longest period when they didn't win a tournament on the history of SC2. All show Zerg are doing rather poorly right now compared to the past. But as "Terran community" don't want to accept that reality they try to find everything they can. You use distribution as an argument of casality, it's not a scientific method, it's just a way to manipulate numbers to say what you want. Imagine something like : "There is more women than men, so it's obvious the life is harder for men than women, that's why they die earlier", and when we say : "But, actually men won more money than women, most of the rulers are men", "- Yeah it's because they're more skilled". That's the same argumentation than : "Zerg are more in foreigner tournaments, but they win less because P/T are more skilled"
more like zerg is just the easiest race the game than it's being OP in general, foreigners are not good enough especially terrans, the gap between kr terrans and other terrans is gigantic, there's at least 6 kr terrans that is way better than any foreigner, and level of inno, byun and TY is so high that they managed to outperform kr zergs, but who knows what would be if Life wasn't banned, and soO wasn't so unlucky lol.
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Can we stop with the bullshit 'foreigner', and talk about the changes?
I'd like to point out, the duration of a shield battery is only about 6 seconds, I believe.
The battery gives 3 shield per 1 energy, and recharges at a rate of 51 shield per second. Doing the math gives the duration at ~5.88 seconds.
That isn't a very long time, but long enough for a photon cannon to get a couple more shots.
I'm not entirely sure, but a single shield battery can't sustain a proxy gate build. I don't think we have to worry about that. With constant pokes at the gate, I feel any terran, zerg, or protoss can drain the shield battery before protoss can snowball a gateway attack.
I wonder how shield battery works with a cannon rush. It's a heavy investment to try a cannon battery rush, but I feel some pros, like Has, will try it just to measure its success. I'd like to see him try it.
It's still hard to tell if the shield battery is op, useless, or stupid. Let's try out the current iteration first. All you cannon rush addicts, get to testing!
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On September 23 2017 15:20 Tyrhanius wrote:
That's the same argumentation than : "Zerg are more in foreigner tournaments, but they win less because P/T are more skilled"
So where is the problem you can be skilled and plays an easier race, spamming creep tumors everywhere anybody can contest your field. You can be skilled and play zerg with a little shorter of gap progression in training but in definitive you are always able to perform as well.. So what you say didn t make sense too.
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On September 23 2017 22:35 the_last_terran1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2017 15:20 Tyrhanius wrote:
That's the same argumentation than : "Zerg are more in foreigner tournaments, but they win less because P/T are more skilled" So where is the problem you can be skilled and plays an easier race, spamming creep tumors everywhere anybody can contest your field. You can be skilled and play zerg with a little shorter of gap progression in training but in definitive you are always able to perform as well.. So what you say didn t make sense too.
creep tumors are fine as they are - and the level of skill of foreigner / koreans is really *not* the subject discussed in this thread...
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On September 23 2017 22:42 VHbb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2017 22:35 the_last_terran1 wrote:On September 23 2017 15:20 Tyrhanius wrote:
That's the same argumentation than : "Zerg are more in foreigner tournaments, but they win less because P/T are more skilled" So where is the problem you can be skilled and plays an easier race, spamming creep tumors everywhere anybody can contest your field. You can be skilled and play zerg with a little shorter of gap progression in training but in definitive you are always able to perform as well.. So what you say didn t make sense too. creep tumors are fine as they are - and the level of skill of foreigner / koreans is really *not* the subject discussed in this thread...
Creep tumors is what you see when you are in a zerg skin, when yoou are against you see noothing.. Overlords has the same function of creep, they scoot earlier and most of this thread is talking about the overlords problem. If you dig furhter you can also say without any problems most of the pro players never confirm their will to play with 12 workers (For example Byun and Soo like 6 workers...), if I dig a little bit further i will admit all the build and strategy looks the same in each different match up.
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On September 22 2017 20:50 xTJx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 12:18 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 11:25 Finch518 wrote:On September 22 2017 11:07 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 09:32 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 08:10 youngjiddle wrote:Classic introduces mass oracle and PvZ winrates normalize to 50%, better nerf it so we go back to 43% again  Yeah dude, just because oracles prevent lings from denying the protoss third, deny any nydus counter attack as they also kill buildings and queens fast, obliterate any transfering drones or queens outside spore cover, can harass your drones the whole game with stasis, can just jump on zerg bases once they're about 10 as they kill everything before your units can get there, force infestors as even hydras die to mass oracle, can give infinite vision of zerg's army, can place infinite defensive stasis wards on key locations, are faster than mutas and way faster than corruptors, doesn't mean they're bad game design. Have you considered the possibility that you are bad and haven't used the correct counter play yet. Funny because Scarlett made all these same points on reddit the other day, i guess shes bad and doesnt have the counter play yet either? Neither does Rogue, or SoO too amirite? Ah yes Scarlett the zerg who is queen of balance whining about protoss and SoO the zerg who wants the hydra range buff, I don't take any pro players opinions very strongly. If protoss was really that strong Scarlett would be able to play it at a high level too right? Oh wait, she does exactly that, even entering tournaments as protoss and defeating other progamers. I bet you take Avilo's opinions strongly tho, you look the type.
lol, I was watching neeb play Zerg, ZvP on GM KR ladder and winning, if you think protoss is easy because "a zerg pro can become extremely good at it", you really don't know how good pros are with other races. She even practices protoss, lol.
and no, I don't take avilo's opinions for anything, why would you assume that off of what little I have said? Trying to put down anything I say eh? I said I don't take the popular opinion as always being true and think for myself unlike avilo goons. I am sick of nerfs because of balance whine, like adepts, disrupter, oracles, and the removal of the mothership core.
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One of the aims of the patch was to make Mech better compared to live version. The problem is that the changes achieved the opposite.
I agree that nerfing mass Ravens was a good move. As well as removing Mothership core. But if you look at all the changes in the game mech is actually far weaker on the test patch compared to live.
In TvT mech is slightly weaker. The old missile costed more energy and could only damage, not kill a Tank. The new Raven can disable more tanks which is an advantage for the bio player since they can invest more gas into Ravens. And Ravens will no longer have pdd which means that pdd cannot protect your tanks from mass bio.
In TvZ mech is weaker. Mass Ravens were OP but they were also the one unit that made it possible to fight against Zergs late game. Not having auto turrets and missiles will make TvZ almost impossible. Shredder missiles are close to useless compared to those abilities and scrambler missiles will have almost no meaningful use. Swarm Hosts being slightly slower off creep will have almost no impact.
In TvP mech will go from really weak to completely dead. The new chrono boost combined with higher stalker damage and offensive shield batteries will make it completely impossible to go mech. You will not see mech in a single high-level game in TvP except in the first few weeks after the patch when no one knows what they are doing.
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On September 24 2017 15:06 MockHamill wrote:
One of the aims of the patch was to make Mech better compared to live version.
says who? it's already super strong.
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Wrong thread. Nerf Warp Prism
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I believe swarm hosts are too hard to play against but not too strong.They are not silver bullet in pro matchs at all :-/
They are just...bad design tbh may be terran needs a treatment just like colossus attack speed buff to help pub players.Unlike protoss's case even Gm and master terrans are struggling with this unit.
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Why not have Parasitic Bomb do friendly fire?
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hydralisk-bane (and sh) style players are strong from such long time and blizzard isnt doing something about it, but the oracle build is not even used in all the matchups, still not very popular at all leagues, and it has like 2-3 months on the meta and is already getting a nerf, im really impressed about the balance team on sc2.
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On September 25 2017 04:09 wiNgiAN wrote:
hydralisk-bane (and sh) style players are strong from such long time and blizzard isnt doing something about it, but the oracle build is not even used in all the matchups, still not very popular at all leagues, and it has like 2-3 months on the meta and is already getting a nerf, im really impressed about the balance team on sc2.
That's funny how Zerg players still manage to be kind of objective with some changes, and zerg pros don't hesitate to call a zerg buff OP when it is, but P and T always claim their race are the weakest, and whine on every changes that are not buffs.
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On September 25 2017 06:06 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 04:09 wiNgiAN wrote:
hydralisk-bane (and sh) style players are strong from such long time and blizzard isnt doing something about it, but the oracle build is not even used in all the matchups, still not very popular at all leagues, and it has like 2-3 months on the meta and is already getting a nerf, im really impressed about the balance team on sc2. That's funny how Zerg players still manage to be kind of objective with some changes, and zerg pros don't hesitate to call a zerg buff OP when it is, but P and T always claim their race are the weakest, and whine on every changes that are not buffs.
You say that.
Protoss player: "That's funny how Protoss players still manage to be kind of objective with some changes, and Protoss pros don't hesitate to call a Protoss buff OP when it is, but Z and T always claim their race are the weakest, and whine on every changes that are not buffs."
Terran player: "That's funny how Terran players still manage to be kind of objective with some changes, and Terran pros don't hesitate to call a Terran buff OP when it is, but P and Z always claim their race are the weakest, and whine on every changes that are not buffs."
Me:+ Show Spoiler +
The sheer amount of delusion from biased players of all races is unbelievably ironic and incredibly hilarious. If any of you spent half the effort on practicing as you do on whining, you would be competing at Blizzcon.
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On September 25 2017 06:06 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 04:09 wiNgiAN wrote:
hydralisk-bane (and sh) style players are strong from such long time and blizzard isnt doing something about it, but the oracle build is not even used in all the matchups, still not very popular at all leagues, and it has like 2-3 months on the meta and is already getting a nerf, im really impressed about the balance team on sc2. That's funny how Zerg players still manage to be kind of objective with some changes, and zerg pros don't hesitate to call a zerg buff OP when it is, but P and T always claim their race are the weakest, and whine on every changes that are not buffs.
Even snute said that the hydra buff was too much and he think that blizzard should revert that.
Snute is one of the best foreigners zerg, and one of the most honest and objetive player in high lvl, i hope its enough for you little man
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I think some people here don't quite understand that Blizzard is intentionally changing up the game rapidly and significantly. Players will inevitably adjust their strategies and find new optimal builds, and I think that's an exciting part of the process. If Blizzard succumbs to pressure and continuously reverts big changes, it's going to be difficult to take the game in a new direction.
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On September 25 2017 07:17 wiNgiAN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 06:06 Tyrhanius wrote:On September 25 2017 04:09 wiNgiAN wrote:
hydralisk-bane (and sh) style players are strong from such long time and blizzard isnt doing something about it, but the oracle build is not even used in all the matchups, still not very popular at all leagues, and it has like 2-3 months on the meta and is already getting a nerf, im really impressed about the balance team on sc2. That's funny how Zerg players still manage to be kind of objective with some changes, and zerg pros don't hesitate to call a zerg buff OP when it is, but P and T always claim their race are the weakest, and whine on every changes that are not buffs. Even snute said that the hydra buff was too much and he think that blizzard should revert that. https://clips.twitch.tv/VivaciousFaithfulAnacondaGivePLZSnute is one of the best foreigners zerg, and one of the most honest and objetive player in high lvl, i hope its enough for you little man
Yeah, it's exactly what i'm saying unlike you he is objective, and doesn't hesitate to say something is too strong with his race, while you'll never admit making mass oracles to kill army/buildings, and blocking eggs is too strong.
And please, i'm not your little man, i'm not your friend, keep your arrogant behavior for yourself.
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On September 24 2017 11:11 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 20:50 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 12:18 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 11:25 Finch518 wrote:On September 22 2017 11:07 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 09:32 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 08:10 youngjiddle wrote:Classic introduces mass oracle and PvZ winrates normalize to 50%, better nerf it so we go back to 43% again Yeah dude, just because oracles prevent lings from denying the protoss third, deny any nydus counter attack as they also kill buildings and queens fast, obliterate any transfering drones or queens outside spore cover, can harass your drones the whole game with stasis, can just jump on zerg bases once they're about 10 as they kill everything before your units can get there, force infestors as even hydras die to mass oracle, can give infinite vision of zerg's army, can place infinite defensive stasis wards on key locations, are faster than mutas and way faster than corruptors, doesn't mean they're bad game design. Have you considered the possibility that you are bad and haven't used the correct counter play yet. Funny because Scarlett made all these same points on reddit the other day, i guess shes bad and doesnt have the counter play yet either? Neither does Rogue, or SoO too amirite? Ah yes Scarlett the zerg who is queen of balance whining about protoss and SoO the zerg who wants the hydra range buff, I don't take any pro players opinions very strongly. If protoss was really that strong Scarlett would be able to play it at a high level too right? Oh wait, she does exactly that, even entering tournaments as protoss and defeating other progamers. I bet you take Avilo's opinions strongly tho, you look the type. lol, I was watching neeb play Zerg, ZvP on GM KR ladder and winning, if you think protoss is easy because "a zerg pro can become extremely good at it", you really don't know how good pros are with other races. She even practices protoss, lol. and no, I don't take avilo's opinions for anything, why would you assume that off of what little I have said? Trying to put down anything I say eh? I said I don't take the popular opinion as always being true and think for myself unlike avilo goons. I am sick of nerfs because of balance whine, like adepts, disrupter, oracles, and the removal of the mothership core.
You're the one trying to put down the criticism against protoss units as balance whining. All your posts are "protoss is not viable", you're literaly the protoss Avilo.
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On September 23 2017 06:12 washikie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 16:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 22 2017 16:35 DieuCure wrote:But for real, all we are all waiting for is the tankivac return right ?  No, never honestly i miss it, I mean yeah it got rid of the gloriuse chess match that was tvt, but frankly tvt has never been as good as it was in wol because of boosted medivacs. And it was alot of fun to make deathball of tanks and drop it places to pick off big chunks of army supply.
Tankivac was definitely the best period of LotV Terran for me, with that said Terran gameplay as been incredibly boring with LotV. Liberators aren't fun to use at all, TvP is like 10 times worse than it was in WoL/HotS. Bio vs Z has been ruined for a year by ultras and the insane eco makes it way more dull than HotS anyway. Hydra ling bane vs bio tank is cool tho atm.
TvT has been fucked up by reapers beyong measure and has been destroyed by medivac boost anyway in HotS.
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You dont need Liberators in TvP if you play like God.
TvT ladder before the cyclone's prod change was like 80% 3rax reaper, the worst period of fun for me.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://m.popkey.co/a818d6/4Vvbx.gif)
