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When I was watching the interview with the game designer in that last tournament, I felt like their direction with everything was pretty sound. It's pretty clear that they're looking at the overall health of the game, both balance wise and the enjoyment factor of watching it.
From the viewer's perspective, it is hyper important that one single composition or strat isn't hyper dominant over the other. It makes watching the matchups stale, and limits viewership. As the above poster said, 3-rax reaper was balanced, but it wasn't fun to watch. Watching a swarm of Oracles obliterate everything at all stages of the game wasn't fun to watch either. Heck, watching Marine, Marauder, Medivic, Widowmine on every single matchup against every race gets old too.
I'm calling it though. They'll change Lurkers next 
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On September 22 2017 22:05 xTJx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 21:27 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 20:50 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 12:18 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 11:25 Finch518 wrote:On September 22 2017 11:07 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 09:32 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 08:10 youngjiddle wrote:Classic introduces mass oracle and PvZ winrates normalize to 50%, better nerf it so we go back to 43% again Yeah dude, just because oracles prevent lings from denying the protoss third, deny any nydus counter attack as they also kill buildings and queens fast, obliterate any transfering drones or queens outside spore cover, can harass your drones the whole game with stasis, can just jump on zerg bases once they're about 10 as they kill everything before your units can get there, force infestors as even hydras die to mass oracle, can give infinite vision of zerg's army, can place infinite defensive stasis wards on key locations, are faster than mutas and way faster than corruptors, doesn't mean they're bad game design. Have you considered the possibility that you are bad and haven't used the correct counter play yet. Funny because Scarlett made all these same points on reddit the other day, i guess shes bad and doesnt have the counter play yet either? Neither does Rogue, or SoO too amirite? Ah yes Scarlett the zerg who is queen of balance whining about protoss and SoO the zerg who wants the hydra range buff, I don't take any pro players opinions very strongly. If protoss was really that strong Scarlett would be able to play it at a high level too right? Oh wait, she does exactly that, even entering tournaments as protoss and defeating other progamers. I bet you take Avilo's opinions strongly tho, you look the type. Maybe her playing decently with Protoss is because she trains Protoss ? Because her zerg games have been very very disappointing lately. How can we even say Protoss is strong anyway when Neeb is literally the only Protoss in every WCS this year to go further than Ro8 .. When the 7 other players are always 6 zergs and 1 terran with Kelazhur or Major. Yeah that's another thing with this community, if ladder and tournaments don't have 33% of each race representation with 50% winrates at all times, the game is imbalanced, because players are robots. And the fact that Neeb only lost 2 games in that tournament doesn't matter. By your own logic, Zerg is underpowered right now, because in GSL Super Tournament we have 5 protoss, 6 terrans and only 3 zergs.
You're that biased.. wow. We're not talking about 33% for each race in Eu. i'm talking about every WCS this year being 6 zergs in the last 8. But hey I guess it's just a coincidence we've had that since Lotv is out, Top EU Protoss & Terrans just stopped playing and got bad, while zergs all got suddenly better. Must be the answer. 
Neeb losing 2 maps in the whole tournament isn't really a surprise when he just has to be good in PvZ because that's what he faces, literally only zergs the entire tournament. Don't blame Protoss just because one player does well.
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Seems good. Not sure why they removed the MULE gas mining though.
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On September 23 2017 00:29 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Seems good. Not sure why they removed the MULE gas mining though.
Because Mech is in a good spot.
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Shield battery still seems far too powerful in certain situations.
It cut down a lot on the late game power (though still a super powerful mineral dump), but this seems like an absurd buff to early game use. I'm really fearful of how this will look for proxies/contains. 2 immortals at your ramp with 5 nearby shield batteries suddenly created? Uh oh.
Also seems like a lot of on-demand defensive power because you could so easily build a bunch of these as soon as the attack is coming.
The worst part of the design is that it completely discourages preemptively making them. Why would you ever invest in a defensive shield battery if it starts at max energy and builds so fast that you can easily build them reactively? I don't like design that discourages planning and long term strategy.
Limiting its max energy is fine, but don't *start* with the max energy please.
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On September 23 2017 01:31 Autumn22 wrote:
Shield battery still seems far too powerful in certain situations.
It cut down a lot on the late game power (though still a super powerful mineral dump), but this seems like an absurd buff to early game use. I'm really fearful of how this will look for proxies/contains. 2 immortals at your ramp with 5 nearby shield batteries suddenly created? Uh oh.
Also seems like a lot of on-demand defensive power because you could so easily build a bunch of these as soon as the attack is coming.
The worst part of the design is that it completely discourages preemptively making them. Why would you ever invest in a defensive shield battery if it starts at max energy and builds so fast that you can easily build them reactively? I don't like design that discourages planning and long term strategy.
Limiting its max energy is fine, but don't *start* with the max energy please.
agree about the energy thing, but for contains, is it really any different from a bunker contain? i suppose its easier to get the batteries up as it only requires 1 probe, fucked up thing is - no pros play the test map because they dont want to invest time if they dont know if a change will be put in the game. so shield batteries for contains might be broken but we wont find out till after blizzcon lol
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On September 22 2017 16:35 DieuCure wrote:But for real, all we are all waiting for is the tankivac return right ? 
please no. no more Tankivac. I really like the nice strong Terran Tank as it exists right now. If the Medivac can pick it up while sieged they'd have to weaken the Tank in some other way. Please leave the Tank and the mechanics surrounding the Tank alone.
On September 22 2017 16:55 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 16:06 DieuCure wrote:Protoss players will have to learn multitask without the easy defense behind  I can't wait to see them panic Finally us Protoss f2'ers will have our time to shine. Not losing the MsCore every 4 min will prove to be an incredible boon to our economy.
i have my F2 button remapped to the CAPS LOCK key.
CapsLock , A + left-click.
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On September 22 2017 23:37 Snarosc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 22:05 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 21:27 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 20:50 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 12:18 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 11:25 Finch518 wrote:On September 22 2017 11:07 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 09:32 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 08:10 youngjiddle wrote:Classic introduces mass oracle and PvZ winrates normalize to 50%, better nerf it so we go back to 43% again Yeah dude, just because oracles prevent lings from denying the protoss third, deny any nydus counter attack as they also kill buildings and queens fast, obliterate any transfering drones or queens outside spore cover, can harass your drones the whole game with stasis, can just jump on zerg bases once they're about 10 as they kill everything before your units can get there, force infestors as even hydras die to mass oracle, can give infinite vision of zerg's army, can place infinite defensive stasis wards on key locations, are faster than mutas and way faster than corruptors, doesn't mean they're bad game design. Have you considered the possibility that you are bad and haven't used the correct counter play yet. Funny because Scarlett made all these same points on reddit the other day, i guess shes bad and doesnt have the counter play yet either? Neither does Rogue, or SoO too amirite? Ah yes Scarlett the zerg who is queen of balance whining about protoss and SoO the zerg who wants the hydra range buff, I don't take any pro players opinions very strongly. If protoss was really that strong Scarlett would be able to play it at a high level too right? Oh wait, she does exactly that, even entering tournaments as protoss and defeating other progamers. I bet you take Avilo's opinions strongly tho, you look the type. Maybe her playing decently with Protoss is because she trains Protoss ? Because her zerg games have been very very disappointing lately. How can we even say Protoss is strong anyway when Neeb is literally the only Protoss in every WCS this year to go further than Ro8 .. When the 7 other players are always 6 zergs and 1 terran with Kelazhur or Major. Yeah that's another thing with this community, if ladder and tournaments don't have 33% of each race representation with 50% winrates at all times, the game is imbalanced, because players are robots. And the fact that Neeb only lost 2 games in that tournament doesn't matter. By your own logic, Zerg is underpowered right now, because in GSL Super Tournament we have 5 protoss, 6 terrans and only 3 zergs. You're that biased.. wow. We're not talking about 33% for each race in Eu. i'm talking about every WCS this year being 6 zergs in the last 8. But hey I guess it's just a coincidence we've had that since Lotv is out, Top EU Protoss & Terrans just stopped playing and got bad, while zergs all got suddenly better. Must be the answer. Neeb losing 2 maps in the whole tournament isn't really a surprise when he just has to be good in PvZ because that's what he faces, literally only zergs the entire tournament. Don't blame Protoss just because one player does well.
It's not a coincindence, Zergs on EU have always been really good, and now the region are locked, it's easier to reach RO16 because they don't meet a korean player that will destroy them.
If the race were strong, they would have no problem winning all the foreigner tournaments, but actually they only won 3 tournaments while Protoss foreigners won 8, and even if you don't count Neeb; Showtime, Harstem and PetitDrogo won 4 tournaments.
Terrans players may be not good on foreigners league, (uthermal has still won a tournament on LOTV, so he is not doing more poorly than Snute, Elazer or Nerchio), they are really strong in korea, big proof the race isn't weak, the problem is just who is behind the keyboard.
The only thing i see here is you don't want to accept Zerg foreigners are good.
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Btw Day[9] announcer pack :D
this is the one that I may buy! <3 Day[J]
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You wanna less zerg ?? Only one thing is better in zerg race : Its the creep.
Remove creeps visibility, and you ll have equal terrans protoss and zergs. LOL they have OL and tumors for visibility but none care.
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On September 23 2017 03:21 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 23:37 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 22:05 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 21:27 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 20:50 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 12:18 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 11:25 Finch518 wrote:On September 22 2017 11:07 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 09:32 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 08:10 youngjiddle wrote:Classic introduces mass oracle and PvZ winrates normalize to 50%, better nerf it so we go back to 43% again Yeah dude, just because oracles prevent lings from denying the protoss third, deny any nydus counter attack as they also kill buildings and queens fast, obliterate any transfering drones or queens outside spore cover, can harass your drones the whole game with stasis, can just jump on zerg bases once they're about 10 as they kill everything before your units can get there, force infestors as even hydras die to mass oracle, can give infinite vision of zerg's army, can place infinite defensive stasis wards on key locations, are faster than mutas and way faster than corruptors, doesn't mean they're bad game design. Have you considered the possibility that you are bad and haven't used the correct counter play yet. Funny because Scarlett made all these same points on reddit the other day, i guess shes bad and doesnt have the counter play yet either? Neither does Rogue, or SoO too amirite? Ah yes Scarlett the zerg who is queen of balance whining about protoss and SoO the zerg who wants the hydra range buff, I don't take any pro players opinions very strongly. If protoss was really that strong Scarlett would be able to play it at a high level too right? Oh wait, she does exactly that, even entering tournaments as protoss and defeating other progamers. I bet you take Avilo's opinions strongly tho, you look the type. Maybe her playing decently with Protoss is because she trains Protoss ? Because her zerg games have been very very disappointing lately. How can we even say Protoss is strong anyway when Neeb is literally the only Protoss in every WCS this year to go further than Ro8 .. When the 7 other players are always 6 zergs and 1 terran with Kelazhur or Major. Yeah that's another thing with this community, if ladder and tournaments don't have 33% of each race representation with 50% winrates at all times, the game is imbalanced, because players are robots. And the fact that Neeb only lost 2 games in that tournament doesn't matter. By your own logic, Zerg is underpowered right now, because in GSL Super Tournament we have 5 protoss, 6 terrans and only 3 zergs. You're that biased.. wow. We're not talking about 33% for each race in Eu. i'm talking about every WCS this year being 6 zergs in the last 8. But hey I guess it's just a coincidence we've had that since Lotv is out, Top EU Protoss & Terrans just stopped playing and got bad, while zergs all got suddenly better. Must be the answer. Neeb losing 2 maps in the whole tournament isn't really a surprise when he just has to be good in PvZ because that's what he faces, literally only zergs the entire tournament. Don't blame Protoss just because one player does well. It's not a coincindence, Zergs on EU have always been really good, and now the region are locked, it's easier to reach RO16 because they don't meet a korean player that will destroy them. If the race were strong, they would have no problem winning all the foreigner tournaments, but actually they only won 3 tournaments while Protoss foreigners won 8, and even if you don't count Neeb; Showtime, Harstem and PetitDrogo won 4 tournaments. Terrans players may be not good on foreigners league, (uthermal has still won a tournament on LOTV, so he is not doing more poorly than Snute, Elazer or Nerchio), they are really strong in korea, big proof the race isn't weak, the problem is just who is behind the keyboard. The only thing i see here is you don't want to accept Zerg foreigners are good.
Ah yes, foreign zergs are just better than foreign protosses or terrans. But if zerg players ever do poorly in Korea, it's the race, not Korean zergs being worse than their counterparts.
What a ridiculous double standard.
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If you doon t want to remove zerg mecanics, you can always increase the life tumors and remove invisibility
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On September 23 2017 03:58 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2017 03:21 Tyrhanius wrote:On September 22 2017 23:37 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 22:05 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 21:27 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 20:50 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 12:18 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 11:25 Finch518 wrote:On September 22 2017 11:07 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 09:32 xTJx wrote:
[quote]
Yeah dude, just because oracles prevent lings from denying the protoss third, deny any nydus counter attack as they also kill buildings and queens fast, obliterate any transfering drones or queens outside spore cover, can harass your drones the whole game with stasis, can just jump on zerg bases once they're about 10 as they kill everything before your units can get there, force infestors as even hydras die to mass oracle, can give infinite vision of zerg's army, can place infinite defensive stasis wards on key locations, are faster than mutas and way faster than corruptors, doesn't mean they're bad game design. Have you considered the possibility that you are bad and haven't used the correct counter play yet. Funny because Scarlett made all these same points on reddit the other day, i guess shes bad and doesnt have the counter play yet either? Neither does Rogue, or SoO too amirite? Ah yes Scarlett the zerg who is queen of balance whining about protoss and SoO the zerg who wants the hydra range buff, I don't take any pro players opinions very strongly. If protoss was really that strong Scarlett would be able to play it at a high level too right? Oh wait, she does exactly that, even entering tournaments as protoss and defeating other progamers. I bet you take Avilo's opinions strongly tho, you look the type. Maybe her playing decently with Protoss is because she trains Protoss ? Because her zerg games have been very very disappointing lately. How can we even say Protoss is strong anyway when Neeb is literally the only Protoss in every WCS this year to go further than Ro8 .. When the 7 other players are always 6 zergs and 1 terran with Kelazhur or Major. Yeah that's another thing with this community, if ladder and tournaments don't have 33% of each race representation with 50% winrates at all times, the game is imbalanced, because players are robots. And the fact that Neeb only lost 2 games in that tournament doesn't matter. By your own logic, Zerg is underpowered right now, because in GSL Super Tournament we have 5 protoss, 6 terrans and only 3 zergs. You're that biased.. wow. We're not talking about 33% for each race in Eu. i'm talking about every WCS this year being 6 zergs in the last 8. But hey I guess it's just a coincidence we've had that since Lotv is out, Top EU Protoss & Terrans just stopped playing and got bad, while zergs all got suddenly better. Must be the answer. Neeb losing 2 maps in the whole tournament isn't really a surprise when he just has to be good in PvZ because that's what he faces, literally only zergs the entire tournament. Don't blame Protoss just because one player does well. It's not a coincindence, Zergs on EU have always been really good, and now the region are locked, it's easier to reach RO16 because they don't meet a korean player that will destroy them. If the race were strong, they would have no problem winning all the foreigner tournaments, but actually they only won 3 tournaments while Protoss foreigners won 8, and even if you don't count Neeb; Showtime, Harstem and PetitDrogo won 4 tournaments. Terrans players may be not good on foreigners league, (uthermal has still won a tournament on LOTV, so he is not doing more poorly than Snute, Elazer or Nerchio), they are really strong in korea, big proof the race isn't weak, the problem is just who is behind the keyboard. The only thing i see here is you don't want to accept Zerg foreigners are good. Ah yes, foreign zergs are just better than foreign protosses or terrans. But if zerg players ever do poorly in Korea, it's the race, not Korean zergs being worse than their counterparts. What a ridiculous double standard.
Well the game gets balanced for the highest level of play which is in korea,so obviously it's a problem when a race is underperforming there. foreign tournaments aren't a representation of balance
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On September 23 2017 03:58 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2017 03:21 Tyrhanius wrote:On September 22 2017 23:37 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 22:05 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 21:27 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 20:50 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 12:18 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 11:25 Finch518 wrote:On September 22 2017 11:07 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 09:32 xTJx wrote:
[quote]
Yeah dude, just because oracles prevent lings from denying the protoss third, deny any nydus counter attack as they also kill buildings and queens fast, obliterate any transfering drones or queens outside spore cover, can harass your drones the whole game with stasis, can just jump on zerg bases once they're about 10 as they kill everything before your units can get there, force infestors as even hydras die to mass oracle, can give infinite vision of zerg's army, can place infinite defensive stasis wards on key locations, are faster than mutas and way faster than corruptors, doesn't mean they're bad game design. Have you considered the possibility that you are bad and haven't used the correct counter play yet. Funny because Scarlett made all these same points on reddit the other day, i guess shes bad and doesnt have the counter play yet either? Neither does Rogue, or SoO too amirite? Ah yes Scarlett the zerg who is queen of balance whining about protoss and SoO the zerg who wants the hydra range buff, I don't take any pro players opinions very strongly. If protoss was really that strong Scarlett would be able to play it at a high level too right? Oh wait, she does exactly that, even entering tournaments as protoss and defeating other progamers. I bet you take Avilo's opinions strongly tho, you look the type. Maybe her playing decently with Protoss is because she trains Protoss ? Because her zerg games have been very very disappointing lately. How can we even say Protoss is strong anyway when Neeb is literally the only Protoss in every WCS this year to go further than Ro8 .. When the 7 other players are always 6 zergs and 1 terran with Kelazhur or Major. Yeah that's another thing with this community, if ladder and tournaments don't have 33% of each race representation with 50% winrates at all times, the game is imbalanced, because players are robots. And the fact that Neeb only lost 2 games in that tournament doesn't matter. By your own logic, Zerg is underpowered right now, because in GSL Super Tournament we have 5 protoss, 6 terrans and only 3 zergs. You're that biased.. wow. We're not talking about 33% for each race in Eu. i'm talking about every WCS this year being 6 zergs in the last 8. But hey I guess it's just a coincidence we've had that since Lotv is out, Top EU Protoss & Terrans just stopped playing and got bad, while zergs all got suddenly better. Must be the answer. Neeb losing 2 maps in the whole tournament isn't really a surprise when he just has to be good in PvZ because that's what he faces, literally only zergs the entire tournament. Don't blame Protoss just because one player does well. It's not a coincindence, Zergs on EU have always been really good, and now the region are locked, it's easier to reach RO16 because they don't meet a korean player that will destroy them. If the race were strong, they would have no problem winning all the foreigner tournaments, but actually they only won 3 tournaments while Protoss foreigners won 8, and even if you don't count Neeb; Showtime, Harstem and PetitDrogo won 4 tournaments. Terrans players may be not good on foreigners league, (uthermal has still won a tournament on LOTV, so he is not doing more poorly than Snute, Elazer or Nerchio), they are really strong in korea, big proof the race isn't weak, the problem is just who is behind the keyboard. The only thing i see here is you don't want to accept Zerg foreigners are good. Ah yes, foreign zergs are just better than foreign protosses or terrans. But if zerg players ever do poorly in Korea, it's the race, not Korean zergs being worse than their counterparts. What a ridiculous double standard.
What is ridiculous is how someone make a point about 1 unit and people have to turn it into a balance rant.
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On September 22 2017 16:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 16:35 DieuCure wrote:But for real, all we are all waiting for is the tankivac return right ? No, never
honestly i miss it, I mean yeah it got rid of the gloriuse chess match that was tvt, but frankly tvt has never been as good as it was in wol because of boosted medivacs. And it was alot of fun to make deathball of tanks and drop it places to pick off big chunks of army supply.
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On September 22 2017 23:12 Ranari wrote:When I was watching the interview with the game designer in that last tournament, I felt like their direction with everything was pretty sound. It's pretty clear that they're looking at the overall health of the game, both balance wise and the enjoyment factor of watching it. From the viewer's perspective, it is hyper important that one single composition or strat isn't hyper dominant over the other. It makes watching the matchups stale, and limits viewership. As the above poster said, 3-rax reaper was balanced, but it wasn't fun to watch. Watching a swarm of Oracles obliterate everything at all stages of the game wasn't fun to watch either. Heck, watching Marine, Marauder, Medivic, Widowmine on every single matchup against every race gets old too. I'm calling it though. They'll change Lurkers next
Then im wondering why bliz does nothing about the dominance of hydra ling bane in both zvt and zvp.
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On September 23 2017 06:16 washikie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 23:12 Ranari wrote:When I was watching the interview with the game designer in that last tournament, I felt like their direction with everything was pretty sound. It's pretty clear that they're looking at the overall health of the game, both balance wise and the enjoyment factor of watching it. From the viewer's perspective, it is hyper important that one single composition or strat isn't hyper dominant over the other. It makes watching the matchups stale, and limits viewership. As the above poster said, 3-rax reaper was balanced, but it wasn't fun to watch. Watching a swarm of Oracles obliterate everything at all stages of the game wasn't fun to watch either. Heck, watching Marine, Marauder, Medivic, Widowmine on every single matchup against every race gets old too. I'm calling it though. They'll change Lurkers next Then im wondering why bliz does nothing about the dominance of hydra ling bane in both zvt and zvp.
Dominance is a strong word. I would choose the word prevalent.
But I agree hydra/ling/bane is very strong in both matchups.
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Hi GM protoss player feedback :
- happy with mothership core removal,it's archaic design and not needed anymore. more fun and less QQ = good change
- oracle change is not a big deal, a small nerf to a toxic gameplay in PvZ
- disruptor : bad design, need redesign. The nerf is too much aswell.
- colossus : seems balanced for a niche aoe unit
- observer /ht changes : QoL nothing to say about, doesn't matter.
- shield battery : extremely strong with any proxy gate unit rush or canons. it's beyond broken. it's defense utility is ok tough. Another "cool" choice badly implemented.
I think protoss don't need anything to compensate for mscCore removal and shield battery should be scrapped ( and probably will be before the end of ptr) because of those unwanted offensiv uses.
Have fun stomping z or T with few immortal stalker/zealot . There is nothing terran or zerg can do about it, it's so funny :D
- other races changes : minors changes i'm fine with them
edit : - scrambler missile might be a bit too strong
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On September 22 2017 05:26 NutriaKaiN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 05:06 bela.mervado wrote:
i like the pulsar beam idea, but it is still does 1x15 dmg (i wonder what difference this makes against 1 base armor queens),
maybe they should split it into 2x7 (just like the marauder nerf). maybe the oracle should do no damage, only the beam itself.
I was thinking make it regular damage, and split it to 15 beams doing 1 damage each for its attack.
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On September 23 2017 03:58 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2017 03:21 Tyrhanius wrote:On September 22 2017 23:37 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 22:05 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 21:27 Snarosc wrote:On September 22 2017 20:50 xTJx wrote:On September 22 2017 12:18 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 11:25 Finch518 wrote:On September 22 2017 11:07 youngjiddle wrote:On September 22 2017 09:32 xTJx wrote:
[quote]
Yeah dude, just because oracles prevent lings from denying the protoss third, deny any nydus counter attack as they also kill buildings and queens fast, obliterate any transfering drones or queens outside spore cover, can harass your drones the whole game with stasis, can just jump on zerg bases once they're about 10 as they kill everything before your units can get there, force infestors as even hydras die to mass oracle, can give infinite vision of zerg's army, can place infinite defensive stasis wards on key locations, are faster than mutas and way faster than corruptors, doesn't mean they're bad game design. Have you considered the possibility that you are bad and haven't used the correct counter play yet. Funny because Scarlett made all these same points on reddit the other day, i guess shes bad and doesnt have the counter play yet either? Neither does Rogue, or SoO too amirite? Ah yes Scarlett the zerg who is queen of balance whining about protoss and SoO the zerg who wants the hydra range buff, I don't take any pro players opinions very strongly. If protoss was really that strong Scarlett would be able to play it at a high level too right? Oh wait, she does exactly that, even entering tournaments as protoss and defeating other progamers. I bet you take Avilo's opinions strongly tho, you look the type. Maybe her playing decently with Protoss is because she trains Protoss ? Because her zerg games have been very very disappointing lately. How can we even say Protoss is strong anyway when Neeb is literally the only Protoss in every WCS this year to go further than Ro8 .. When the 7 other players are always 6 zergs and 1 terran with Kelazhur or Major. Yeah that's another thing with this community, if ladder and tournaments don't have 33% of each race representation with 50% winrates at all times, the game is imbalanced, because players are robots. And the fact that Neeb only lost 2 games in that tournament doesn't matter. By your own logic, Zerg is underpowered right now, because in GSL Super Tournament we have 5 protoss, 6 terrans and only 3 zergs. You're that biased.. wow. We're not talking about 33% for each race in Eu. i'm talking about every WCS this year being 6 zergs in the last 8. But hey I guess it's just a coincidence we've had that since Lotv is out, Top EU Protoss & Terrans just stopped playing and got bad, while zergs all got suddenly better. Must be the answer. Neeb losing 2 maps in the whole tournament isn't really a surprise when he just has to be good in PvZ because that's what he faces, literally only zergs the entire tournament. Don't blame Protoss just because one player does well. It's not a coincindence, Zergs on EU have always been really good, and now the region are locked, it's easier to reach RO16 because they don't meet a korean player that will destroy them. If the race were strong, they would have no problem winning all the foreigner tournaments, but actually they only won 3 tournaments while Protoss foreigners won 8, and even if you don't count Neeb; Showtime, Harstem and PetitDrogo won 4 tournaments. Terrans players may be not good on foreigners league, (uthermal has still won a tournament on LOTV, so he is not doing more poorly than Snute, Elazer or Nerchio), they are really strong in korea, big proof the race isn't weak, the problem is just who is behind the keyboard. The only thing i see here is you don't want to accept Zerg foreigners are good. Ah yes, foreign zergs are just better than foreign protosses or terrans. But if zerg players ever do poorly in Korea, it's the race, not Korean zergs being worse than their counterparts. What a ridiculous double standard.
And according to you : Zerg are more numerous in foreigner leagues because they're OP, but in korea Terran are the best players...
It makes no sense that only foreigner league is affected by balance, but not korea...
It's also make no sense because the foreigners and the kor zerg players are exactly the same than on HOTS.
You act like the Snute/nerchio/Scarlett are newcomers that never used to be good, and start to perform on LOTV, like Dark/Solar/Soo/Rogue were no name on HOTS and Terran players were always better...
Who have heard about Byun before LOTV ? Who thought Gumiho can win GSL before LOTV, or TY two tournaments ?
And Protoss foreigners perform better than Zerg on LOTV but you keep saying Zerg rules foreigners tournaments...
They're a lot of zerg on foreigners tournaments because the good player from HOTS haven't stopped playing, but still despite you have 6-8 of the best Zerg on foreigners scene, protoss won most of the tournaments.
On GSL, we used to see more Z/P than T, but right now Zerg is the less represented race.
Also Zerg breaks a record this year, and had the longest period when they didn't win a tournament on the history of SC2.
All show Zerg are doing rather poorly right now compared to the past.
But as "Terran community" don't want to accept that reality they try to find everything they can.
You use distribution as an argument of casality, it's not a scientific method, it's just a way to manipulate numbers to say what you want.
Imagine something like : "There is more women than men, so it's obvious the life is harder for men than women, that's why they die earlier", and when we say : "But, actually men won more money than women, most of the rulers are men", "- Yeah it's because they're more skilled".
That's the same argumentation than : "Zerg are more in foreigner tournaments, but they win less because P/T are more skilled"
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EPT
