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It is not an UNFAIR advantage. It is sometimes an advantage.
Would it be an unfair advantage if other people build units and attack me, because I want to play with only scvs? So the other guy should also play with only scvs?
Also other people do not want other people to know who they are playing against not because they want an advantage because they simply do not want others to know? And you don't respect this right in your arguments. So why should these people respect your claim?
My point is: you have valid point. I'm saying what is bothering you is exactly what other people like about this. If some people like a feature and some people do not is it that called an unfair advantage? Yes, we can discuss this. But if you only see your point, this does not make your position very credible.
On a sidenote:
I also think it is an unfair advantage to use the username avilo, because this is such a hard name for me to remember. So if we would play on ladder I wouldn't know who I played. I think you should rename yourself to ADVJLK because then I think it's fair because I can remember this name. And no I can't be bothered with any new features like ticking players and anyways I would forget your playstyle if your name is avilo and not ADVJLK.
Edit: To be clear: This is kinda like what your post appears like to some other people. And no it is not the fault of other people, but the way your post ist written.
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Russian Federation93 Posts
On September 13 2017 21:52 avilo wrote:
The barcoded player has more information at their disposal before the game begins than the player not on the barcode.
Now he hasn't.
You are not obligated to play mech if your nickname is avilo. You have no in-game restrictions to your build orders based on whether you are playing with some nickname or another. So your predictability is your problem as a 1-sided non-diverse player.
So technically there is no in-game advantage based on the identity information.
Due to this argument this whole topic makes no sense.
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Avilo your last reply makes sense, I see what youre saying and I agree that there is a disparity in relevant information when there is a barcode player involved.
However I still disagree that the solution would be to ban them. Like you can solve the problem yourself just by making an anonymous ID for yourself to use, wont this negate the information disparity?
My feeling is that even if these barcode accounts are banned then people will still seek to gain an edge and they will use ########## or aaaaaaaaaaa or etc, as mentioned previously in this thread and then were right back where we started
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On September 13 2017 22:19 sh1RoKen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 21:52 avilo wrote:
The barcoded player has more information at their disposal before the game begins than the player not on the barcode.
Now he hasn't. You are not obligated to play mech if your nickname is avilo. You have no in-game restrictions to your build orders based on whether you are playing with some nickname or another. So your predictability is your problem as a 1-sided non-diverse player. So technically there is no in-game advantage based on the identity information. Due to this argument this whole topic makes no sense.
llllllllllllllllllllll VS Liquid Snute
Snute does not know who the barcode is. The barcode knows who snute is. The barcode player has an informational advantage before the game begins, whether you want to acknowledge this fact or not doesn't matter. Whether snute in this scenario wins or loses does not matter. The point is one player has an unfair advantage over another player on a competitive ladder, on a competitive e-sport where barcodes are also not allowed in qualifiers or tournaments as well.
So why are they allowed currently on the same competitive ladder?
Nice ad hominem tho.
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On September 13 2017 22:19 sh1RoKen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 21:52 avilo wrote:
The barcoded player has more information at their disposal before the game begins than the player not on the barcode.
Now he hasn't. You are not obligated to play mech if your nickname is avilo. You have no in-game restrictions to your build orders based on whether you are playing with some nickname or another. So your predictability is your problem as a 1-sided non-diverse player. So technically there is no in-game advantage based on the identity information. Due to this argument this whole topic makes no sense.
everything avilo says makes perfect sense when you consider it from the perspective that he doesn't think the game is designed properly unless he can follow a series of color-by-numbers steps to get automatic wins by repeating a mech build order. and that's not a personal avilo slam, it's something i see from mech players all the time: while koreans are showing high-level, dominant, innovative mech play that involves adaptation, micro and harassment, mech terrans on ladder are unwilling to learn new moves nor credit their opponents for outpositioning them or deserving to win by executing an attack better than the mech player executes their defense
for some reason i can't understand many terrans (even bio terrans) want to think that every time they siege up a tank they're playing grandmaster chess with their units and there couldn't possibly be any intelligent counterplay. then when they lose games "tanks are useless and need to be buffed" or in this case "it's not fair that people know i play mech from my b.net tag, obviously i'm executing mech perfectly and i should never lose"
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On September 13 2017 22:42 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 22:19 sh1RoKen wrote:On September 13 2017 21:52 avilo wrote:
The barcoded player has more information at their disposal before the game begins than the player not on the barcode.
Now he hasn't. You are not obligated to play mech if your nickname is avilo. You have no in-game restrictions to your build orders based on whether you are playing with some nickname or another. So your predictability is your problem as a 1-sided non-diverse player. So technically there is no in-game advantage based on the identity information. Due to this argument this whole topic makes no sense. everything avilo says makes perfect sense when you consider it from the perspective that he doesn't think the game is designed properly unless he can follow a series of color-by-numbers steps to get automatic wins by repeating a mech build order. and that's not a personal avilo slam, it's something i see from mech players all the time: while koreans are showing high-level, dominant, innovative mech play that involves adaptation, micro and harassment, mech terrans on ladder are unwilling to learn new moves nor credit their opponents for outpositioning them or deserving to win by executing an attack better than the mech player executes their defense for some reason i can't understand many terrans (even bio terrans) want to think that every time they siege up a tank they're playing grandmaster chess with their units and there couldn't possibly be any intelligent counterplay. then when they lose games "tanks are useless and need to be buffed" or in this case "it's not fair that people know i play mech from my b.net tag, obviously i'm executing mech perfectly and i should never lose"
Ad hominem, does not address thread topic.
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Russian Federation93 Posts
On September 13 2017 22:41 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 22:19 sh1RoKen wrote:On September 13 2017 21:52 avilo wrote:
The barcoded player has more information at their disposal before the game begins than the player not on the barcode.
Now he hasn't. You are not obligated to play mech if your nickname is avilo. You have no in-game restrictions to your build orders based on whether you are playing with some nickname or another. So your predictability is your problem as a 1-sided non-diverse player. So technically there is no in-game advantage based on the identity information. Due to this argument this whole topic makes no sense. llllllllllllllllllllll VS Liquid Snute Snute does not know who the barcode is. The barcode knows who snute is. The barcode player has an informational advantage before the game begins, whether you want to acknowledge this fact or not doesn't matter. Whether snute in this scenario wins or loses does not matter. The point is one player has an unfair advantage over another player on a competitive ladder, on a competitive e-sport where barcodes are also not allowed in qualifiers or tournaments as well. So why are they allowed currently on the same competitive ladder? Nice ad hominem tho.
Again. Snute has no build order obligation or in-game restrictions because his opponent knows who he is.
You haven't provided a single argument which proves that identity informational advantage gives any technical in-game advantage to a non-identified player.
Repeating "he has an advantage" in every post doesn't make it an argument.
llllllllllllllllllllll(Z) VS llllllllllllllllllllll(R)
llllllllllllllllllllll(Z) does not know what llllllllllllllllllllll(R)'s rase is. llllllllllllllllllllll(R) knows who llllllllllllllllllllll(Z) is. The random player has an informational advantage before the game begins, whether you want to acknowledge this fact or not doesn't matter. Whether zerg in this scenario wins or loses does not matter. The point is one player has an unfair advantage over another player on a competitive ladder, on a competitive e-sport where random's are also not presented in qualifiers or tournaments as well.
So why are they allowed currently on the same competitive ladder?
Ban all random players!
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On September 13 2017 22:43 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2017 22:42 brickrd wrote:On September 13 2017 22:19 sh1RoKen wrote:On September 13 2017 21:52 avilo wrote:
The barcoded player has more information at their disposal before the game begins than the player not on the barcode.
Now he hasn't. You are not obligated to play mech if your nickname is avilo. You have no in-game restrictions to your build orders based on whether you are playing with some nickname or another. So your predictability is your problem as a 1-sided non-diverse player. So technically there is no in-game advantage based on the identity information. Due to this argument this whole topic makes no sense. everything avilo says makes perfect sense when you consider it from the perspective that he doesn't think the game is designed properly unless he can follow a series of color-by-numbers steps to get automatic wins by repeating a mech build order. and that's not a personal avilo slam, it's something i see from mech players all the time: while koreans are showing high-level, dominant, innovative mech play that involves adaptation, micro and harassment, mech terrans on ladder are unwilling to learn new moves nor credit their opponents for outpositioning them or deserving to win by executing an attack better than the mech player executes their defense for some reason i can't understand many terrans (even bio terrans) want to think that every time they siege up a tank they're playing grandmaster chess with their units and there couldn't possibly be any intelligent counterplay. then when they lose games "tanks are useless and need to be buffed" or in this case "it's not fair that people know i play mech from my b.net tag, obviously i'm executing mech perfectly and i should never lose" Ad hominem, does not address thread topic.
Ah yes the good old fallacy fallacy. I called fallacy first, I win.
It addressed the thread topic insofar as pointing out the topic does not deserve discussion.
If you put half as much effort into your play as you do into complaining on TeamLiquid you would do better, even against stream snipers and barcodes, I promise.
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On September 13 2017 21:52 avilo wrote:
And @kyo in this thread, saying "are you serious?" is not an argument that says anything against the apparently obvious truth that a barcode player is getting an information advantage before the game begins versus a non-barcoded player.
Can you or someone else come up with an argument that refutes it? Probably not because i don't think there is one. The only arguments people can really seem to make are whether or not they personally are OK with people getting an unfair advantage on the ladder via using a barcode account.
do u have some sort of reading problem here? I literally made it as straight forward as I could. if you're going to sit here and spam on TL instead of whine on your stream then at least do people the favor of reading their comments before you reply with something idiotic. you're putting forth an emotive argument that literally none of the top players actually really care about. people who wanna play custom games for practice already do that, and in KR many of them just grind ladder/verify with the 3rd party sites if they're interested in who they played. there is literally no issues.
to be clear; i don't "refute" your argument because it is dubious. i struggle to understand what goes through your mind when you make these threads, or spend hours replying to people about such random things because u dont win every game on ur stream.
lets think of an example following your idea, we can even use BW to exemplify how stupid this is:
okay, so u have flash and u playing broodwar together. u r playing on a barcode and flash has no idea who u r. u r telling me that because flash has an "information disadvantage" based on your name alone that it is such a "huge disadvantage" that he can "potentially" lose to you because he doesnt kno who u r??? (.... r u... serious...?)
ya... ok....
Here is the short of it; people play ladder for general practice. that's what you get regardless of whether you know someone's name or not. whatever other ethical or 'codified' shit you try to attach to it is your own baggage and not blizzards. i mean, can u even imagine if due to your own opinion everyone who played sc2 was required to have specific, clear names identifying who they are because "oh noooo~~ if you don't know this guys name you're just dead already!!~~~~~ booo hoooo"
here is a much better, contrasting idea;
maybe get better at the game. maybe dont worry about who u r playing... maybe... u lose because... your builds are awful and u have no clue what you are doing...????
what do u think ur winrate on a barcode would be versus neeb in a bo30? how about any of the non-koreans going to blizzcon? do you get the point?
this is all dubious and another shit post
+ Show Spoiler +
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Can we please ban the Username Avilo from ladder? People expect a one-dimensional mech player when they see the name; thus granting an advantage when the "Avilo" plays bio.
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In my extensive history playing on both barcode and non-barcode accounts, I have consistently reached higher MMR peaks on my main account than on my barcode, even when i was playing the same and vetoing the same maps on both. Perhaps it would give more advantage to some players, but I think most players would actually say that I am a player that would benefit significantly from barcoding since my playstyle is somewhat unique among high level terrans. Not going to make the argument that it's not an advantage at all, but in my experience (have been playing regularly on both barcode and non-barcode accounts for over a year) it does not turn out that way.
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A lot of people and some streamers have shown their hate to this barcode thing,but I don't think there is a way to solve the problem. Right now, The best way to deal with it is to name yourself barcode too ,so they don't have that unfair advantage you are talking about
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llllllllllllllllllllll VS Liquid Snute
Snute does not know what skins the barcode uses. The barcode knows what skins snute uses. The barcode player has an informational advantage before the game begins, whether you want to acknowledge this fact or not doesn't matter. Whether snute in this scenario wins or loses does not matter. The point is one player has an unfair advantage over another player on a competitive ladder, on a competitive e-sport where skins are also not allowed in qualifiers or tournaments as well.
So why are they allowed currently on the same competitive ladder?
Wow, that was fun 
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I'll also just add that I honestly prefer playing against barcodes as I think it's better practice to not have your playstyle biased by your expectations of your opponent so that you can learn better. For example, against NoRegreT I would always SCV scout and play cautiously, but that can build bad habits where you rely on that information to counter unconventional play, when you never know what your opponent might do. Or another example, if I relied on the knowledge that avilo plays mech to beat his mech play, that could form bad habits and I might easily lose games were he to play bio.
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You simply cannot ban barcodes from ladder, as long as people try to mask their identities for whatever reason they have, they will find a way to do so... When you ban barcodes, what keeps people from agreeing to name themselves all alike with the same portraits?
Being able to make (colored) notes for players you've previously encountered similar to poker would make a lot more sense, but it won't give you 100% certainty, just an assumption based on your limited experience playing that person.
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at the start of this thread i had almost no opinion on the barcode thing. after reading all the discussion by some pretty smart guys who know what they are talking about ... i think Blizzard should leave the barcode accounts alone.
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So in esscence, since ad hominem is being thrown around a lot, we're basically debating whether being anonymous gives an unfair advantage or not. This is a complicated question with no direct answer. The advantage relies on the presumption that - unless I mask my identity - the real identity of my opppnent will give away something about his style of play. This however, is not always true. Because even though a player displays his true identity it might tell you nothing about his style of play either because you simply havent played the guy before or you cant remember anything specific in his style of play that could benefit you.
This is even more true for the majority of the player base (those who arent GM) since they are even less likely to know the style of their opponent, even if hes playing under his real ID. So where are we getting with this exactly?
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If knowing who your opponent is does NOT afford an advantage, then why do so many players hide their identities behind barcode usernames?
o.O
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Russian Federation93 Posts
On September 14 2017 00:57 zenasprime wrote:
If knowing who your opponent is does NOT afford an advantage, then why do so many players hide their identities behind barcode usernames?
o.O
There are like 20 professional players in the world who want to train allins and unexpected strategies to win their bo3s and bo5s on tournaments. They don't want anyone to be able to gather a replay pack of them and study their timings for those strategies to win them on tournaments.
Every other barcode player does it because pros does it and they copy whatever pros do without any particular reason.
If you have less than a $10000 in a prize money for the last year, then no one cares who you are and your identity is irrelevant.
Ad hominem counterargument protection:
You are a great player.
Avilo is great player.
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On September 14 2017 00:57 zenasprime wrote:
If knowing who your opponent is does NOT afford an advantage, then why do so many players hide their identities behind barcode usernames?
o.O
Ultimately, using an alias in an online multiplayer game initially achieves the exact same thing - you're masking your real identity with a handle. Only when you reach the top portion of the competition you tend to run into the same people more frequently, since it's less populated, so you start to recognize player handles and connect some information you gained from previous games to it.
So, the only thing a barcode does is masking your identity again to restore the initial anonymity.
That said, this only kind of makes sense for a very small fraction of (professional) players, who use ladder to practice and prepare for tournaments, for the rest it makes 0 difference since greater populations in lower leagues naturally provide you with "more anonymity".
I think the reason a lot of people use barcodes even in lower leagues is just because they've seen pros and other high-level players do it.
I myself used a barcode on a 2nd account, because I tend to suffer from ladder anxiety, but being able to just ladder without worrying about "performing", such an account actually gave me a lot of relief, although I know how stupid it is.
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EPT
