(Vote): Group A (Vote): Group B (Vote): Group C (Vote): Group D (Vote): Group E (Vote): Group F (Vote): Group G (Vote): Group H (Vote): There is no Group of Death
On June 29 2017 13:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Very interesting to see that Gumiho picked Elazer to be in his group. I thought NoRegret had that spot locked up for sure
Elazer plays a fairly standard, stable style. Noregret is a complete wild card and no one knows exactly how he's going to play. Gumiho probably wants an opponent who plays a style he can prepare for.
I think Elazer could pull it off. I've thought for a while that Europe ZvZ is on a similar level to mid Korea, and Keen has been beaten multiple times by high level Europeans.
Ayyy Scarlett vs INnoVation first game hype. Same for Gumiho vs Elazer. Add in Classic vs Time, TY vs MajOr, and herO vs NoRegret and all the foreigners will be starting from the loser's match.
Still, Scarlett, MajOr and Elazer have somewhat reasonable chances at making it out of their groups in second.
I still can't wrap my head at how half of these players got into the GSL. I'm not trying to disrespect them but some of them really don't belong there....
On June 29 2017 13:50 Carminedust wrote: Rip foreign hope
which one?
All of them are going up against top-tier Koreans in the first round. So they're fighting from the loser's match right from the start.
Despite that, it would not be unimaginable for Scarlett/MajOr/Elazer to make it out in second.
I'd say all of them have a varying degree of chance of beating their first round opponent. How often does the guy who just won GSL look kind of meh in the next Ro32? Elazer could certainly do it, and it's not like Scarlett's never beaten INnovation before.
On June 29 2017 13:50 Carminedust wrote: Rip foreign hope
which one?
All of them are going up against top-tier Koreans in the first round. So they're fighting from the loser's match right from the start.
Despite that, it would not be unimaginable for Scarlett/MajOr/Elazer to make it out in second.
I'd say all of them have a varying degree of chance of beating their first round opponent. How often does the guy who just won GSL look kind of meh in the next Ro32? Elazer could certainly do it, and it's not like Scarlett's never beaten INnovation before.
On June 29 2017 13:50 Carminedust wrote: Rip foreign hope
which one?
All of them are going up against top-tier Koreans in the first round. So they're fighting from the loser's match right from the start.
Despite that, it would not be unimaginable for Scarlett/MajOr/Elazer to make it out in second.
I'd say all of them have a varying degree of chance of beating their first round opponent. How often does the guy who just won GSL look kind of meh in the next Ro32? Elazer could certainly do it, and it's not like Scarlett's never beaten INnovation before.
You have a good point about Gumiho, it's entirely possible that he rests on his laurels and slumps big-time; we've seen it in the past after all. But even in that case he has a long way to slump before Elazer can beat him.
But Scarlett beating INnoVation, offline at the GSL? Inno has dropped an online game here or there, yes, but the man is no idiot and he's played Scarlett more than enough times to figure out that she likes to cheese. Obviously she isn't NoRegret but playing Inno in a macro game as Zerg is a losing proposition no matter who you are. Nothing is impossible of course, but I'd say Scarlett has the worst chance to win her first round match out of all the foreigners, NoRegret included (because herO hasn't played NoRegret a ton and there's a chance he gets cheesed).
Classic has the best PvT of any Protoss, and Time isn't TY with the best TvP (even if he were I would still favor Classic). MajOr against his idol, the guy he copies, is a forgone conclusion. And NoRegret I already addressed.
If the Koreans (all champions of various Premier tournaments) take their matches seriously, there's a very, very slim chance indeed that the foreigners can win their first matches. They are quite simply outclassed, to put it bluntly. Best chance for them is to hope the Koreans get overconfident and slack off.
On June 29 2017 13:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Very interesting to see that Gumiho picked Elazer to be in his group. I thought NoRegret had that spot locked up for sure
Elazer plays a fairly standard, stable style. Noregret is a complete wild card and no one knows exactly how he's going to play. Gumiho probably wants an opponent who plays a style he can prepare for.
Even so there aren't too many interesting cheeses for zerg against a terran that's expecting it. Elazer's chances of beating GuMi straight up are much better than Noregret's chances of cheesing him out.
On June 29 2017 13:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Very interesting to see that Gumiho picked Elazer to be in his group. I thought NoRegret had that spot locked up for sure
Elazer plays a fairly standard, stable style. Noregret is a complete wild card and no one knows exactly how he's going to play. Gumiho probably wants an opponent who plays a style he can prepare for.
Even so there aren't too many interesting cheeses for zerg against a terran that's expecting it. Elazer's chances of beating GuMi straight up are much better than Noregret's chances of cheesing him out.
I dunno, NoRegret is just the kind of guy to pull out some strategy so insanely ridiculous that Gumiho loses out of sheer shock. I can see Gumiho deciding it's not worth the trouble and opting for a standard opponent that he's still very confident of defeating.
On June 29 2017 13:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Very interesting to see that Gumiho picked Elazer to be in his group. I thought NoRegret had that spot locked up for sure
Elazer plays a fairly standard, stable style. Noregret is a complete wild card and no one knows exactly how he's going to play. Gumiho probably wants an opponent who plays a style he can prepare for.
I think Gumihos mech style fairs very well against the cheesy, aggressive play of Noregret. I don't see a realistic chance how he could loose a series even in a bo3. Elazer has a much bigger chance against him in my opinion, he can play anything and he is said himself that he prepares very well for his opponents. Maybe Noregret is Gumihos friend and he picked Elazer because he thinks his chances are almost the same against him.
On June 29 2017 13:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Very interesting to see that Gumiho picked Elazer to be in his group. I thought NoRegret had that spot locked up for sure
Elazer plays a fairly standard, stable style. Noregret is a complete wild card and no one knows exactly how he's going to play. Gumiho probably wants an opponent who plays a style he can prepare for.
Even so there aren't too many interesting cheeses for zerg against a terran that's expecting it. Elazer's chances of beating GuMi straight up are much better than Noregret's chances of cheesing him out.
I dunno, NoRegret is just the kind of guy to pull out some strategy so insanely ridiculous that Gumiho loses out of sheer shock. I can see Gumiho deciding it's not worth the trouble and opting for a standard opponent that he's still very confident of defeating.
On June 29 2017 13:40 Durnuu wrote: RIP Noregret Though maybe he can beat Dark in ZvZ considering how bad Dark is at the matchup :D
Yeah.....Dark has "bad" ZvZ in the context of the best ZvZ players in the world (like soO).
"Bad" mirror matchups for a guy like Dark means that he "only" outclasses any foreign Zerg by a significant amount instead of a ridiculous amount. Refer to the 3-0 he gave Serral at Katowice, or the 3-0 of Elazer at Blizzcon.
Should be easy for Elazer vs Rogue but other match-ups are hard. I was like 65% against Gumiho when I was in Korea but I think he was way worse back then. Keen on the other hand is also very beatable so Elazer has a chance of advancing
On June 29 2017 13:58 geokilla wrote: I still can't wrap my head at how half of these players got into the GSL. I'm not trying to disrespect them but some of them really don't belong there....
Yeah, sure that the GSL qualifiers level has dropped down drastically with low mid tier korean scene evaporates slowly.
I think it is a little bit easier for a foreigners to qualify for the Ro32 nowadays, but for those, decidedly they are among the best foreigners by far (Major the 2nd best T behind Diego, Elazer the best Z in Europe, Scarlett still be a powerhouse in foreign scene)
On June 29 2017 16:41 Nerchio wrote: Should be easy for Elazer vs Rogue but other match-ups are hard. I was like 65% against Gumiho when I was in Korea but I think he was way worse back then. Keen on the other hand is also very beatable so Elazer has a chance of advancing
On June 29 2017 16:55 misterxy1994 wrote: I don't get the tier rankings...the points for 2017 seem to match the rankings, exept Stats has the highest amount of points and is fifth and herO.
The rankings are by WCS points earned in GSL or GSL-related events only (like the Super Tournament).
So for instance TY earned 3000 points from IEM Katowice but that counts for 0 points in these tier rankings.
Elazer: At his best he's definitely capable of advancing from his group, but he'll definitely have a hard time, those guys are no pushovers
Scarlett: Since she plays Inno first, she's definitely in a rough spot going in, but I think Hurricane and Ryung are quite beatable opponents for her, so as long as Inno wins the group she has a good chance - lest she get nuked again
NoRegreT: Jake, I'm sorry, I don't think you're gonna win GSL this season
TIME: His TvP is pretty strong, but Classic and Dear should still be too much for him at this point, Bunny is not a TvT god but by no means a free win.
MajOr: We finally get to see the student take on the master, but the master is clearly favored, it's hard to judge where sOs especially is at, but advancing should be doable for MajOr at least on paper.
Scarlett: Since she plays Inno first, she's definitely in a rough spot going in, but I think Hurricane and Ryung are quite beatable opponents for her, so as long as Inno wins the group she has a good chance - lest she get nuked again
Worst case scenario: INnoVation get out'TvT by Ryung in winner match and face Scarlett twice.
On June 29 2017 17:26 Olli wrote: TIME has the most doable group of all the foreigners, but that still is quite hard.
he`s a kinda unstable player and perform good results in online for past few days and perform it on GSL isn`t the same either...probably Scarlett and Elazer has best chance to advance
On June 29 2017 17:26 Olli wrote: TIME has the most doable group of all the foreigners, but that still is quite hard.
Curious and sOs (in his current form) are arguably easier than Bunny and Dear (in his current form).
Fortunately, we can check all those old day Protoss Titans' (sOs, Dear, Classic) performance soon, and even better, they are all in same bracket, hopefully we will know who is better PvPer as well.
On June 29 2017 13:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Very interesting to see that Gumiho picked Elazer to be in his group. I thought NoRegret had that spot locked up for sure
On June 29 2017 13:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Very interesting to see that Gumiho picked Elazer to be in his group. I thought NoRegret had that spot locked up for sure
You guys are tripping. Group B is the group of death. The only question mark in that group is Hurricane, if he can regain his former power he's a big threat to anyone in that group except maybe a 100% Innovation..
Scarlett's ZvT is good enough to take on anyone in the world and Ryung has ALWAYS been a TvT sniper.
Innovation is obviously the best player in the group but that doesn't mean he's gonna automatically make it through.
That group is the hardest one of any of the others by a wide margin. I'd be VERY surprised if any of the other foreigners advanced out of their groups. Scarlett's got the best chance since she's facing 2 Terrans and one of the weaker Protoss players in the Ro32.
On June 29 2017 19:12 Vindicare605 wrote: You guys are tripping. Group B is the group of death. The only question mark in that group is Hurricane, if he can regain his former power he's a big threat to anyone in that group except maybe a 100% Innovation..
Scarlett's ZvT is good enough to take on anyone in the world and Ryung has ALWAYS been a TvT sniper.
Innovation is obviously the best player in the group but that doesn't mean he's gonna automatically make it through.
That group is the hardest one of any of the others by a wide margin. I'd be VERY surprised if any of the other foreigners advanced out of their groups. Scarlett's got the best chance since she's facing 2 Terrans and one of the weaker Protoss players in the Ro32.
I see that as the weakest group. Hurricane was never very good, Ryung is a TvT sniper and Scarlett isn't that good either.
On June 29 2017 19:12 Vindicare605 wrote: You guys are tripping. Group B is the group of death. The only question mark in that group is Hurricane, if he can regain his former power he's a big threat to anyone in that group except maybe a 100% Innovation..
Scarlett's ZvT is good enough to take on anyone in the world and Ryung has ALWAYS been a TvT sniper.
Innovation is obviously the best player in the group but that doesn't mean he's gonna automatically make it through.
That group is the hardest one of any of the others by a wide margin. I'd be VERY surprised if any of the other foreigners advanced out of their groups. Scarlett's got the best chance since she's facing 2 Terrans and one of the weaker Protoss players in the Ro32.
I see that as the weakest group. Hurricane was never very good, Ryung is a TvT sniper and Scarlett isn't that good either.
Far as I know, Ryung's weakest match up is against Zerg. Scarlett's best is vs Terran. Even if Hurricane doesn't show up (which I have faith he will) that still makes that group potentially a 3 player race.
Only other group that looks like it will also be like that is Group H where TY is obviously the best player and the other 3 are relatively all somewhat likely to take second place (unless of course $O$ shows up in which case it'll be TY and sOs) Every other group seems like it's either dominated by 2 strong players: Groups C, D, E, and G or else relatively weak overall compared to the others: A and F.
That's just my take on it though, we'll have to wait and see what the actual matches show.
lol at the guys saying dark has bad zvz. he has winning records vs guys like byul and rogue, is 21-22 in games vs solar and statistically its even his strongest matchup. the only guy who is significantly better than him is soO, so hes still in the top 3 of zvz players (at least korean).
As always, I'm super curious what the map pool is going to be. I have a feeling Abyssal might be rotating out (cry) but it had a good run! Maybe they'll keep Ascension in. I'd love for GSL to pick up a new map as well to keep things fresh. I mean, Attx has just started releasing a few maps and Jacky is always around. I'm sure they have something up their sleeves! =P
But i mean there is a streak now, right? 2014 season 3, 2015 season 3, 2016 there was no season 3 and now it's time for 2017 season 3 :D
True, true. INnoVation has shown that he tends to peak late in the year. And his current form is certainly very impressive so he will have no problem getting to the Ro16. Still, it's a little early to be calling champions. (Inb4 Inno 4-2 soO again just like 2014 S3)
If he can fix his TvT, he will be the best player in the world.
Well yeah obviously you cannot call a champ right now, but Innovation at his current form is scary for sure. Fair point about his tvt, he really needs to step it up there. Historically he has pretty good tvt, but atm he loses a lot of series.
and looks like soo should advance from his group - only alive could give him trouble. altho if alive copies gumigod's unbeatable mech build with bc harass teleport it could be grim
I'm calling TY, Inno, or Maru to win S3 (yes I know I've said this every season). The fact all three of them lost to TvT snipers this season tells me we should get a terran champ by default.
TY would have had S2 if not for choking in g5 against gumiho (fuck he would have had S1 if he didn't choke vs soO in the ro8 then). Maru would have taken it without gumiho's TvT. And Inno lost to aLive, another sniper....
On June 29 2017 13:36 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Very interesting to see that Gumiho picked Elazer to be in his group. I thought NoRegret had that spot locked up for sure
noregret used to live with gumiho
oh ya, forgot about that. that makes a lot of sense then actually
What do you guys think about foreigners' respective groups? I think TIME barely has the most doable group, but it's close and no one's getting a free pass. Classic and Dear are both great players but neither is in tip top shape, and bunny is definitely beatable.
I'd say scarlett has the hardest group. Hurricane and Ryung have both been playing fairly well lately, and innovation is innovation.
I'm somewhat tempted to say Elazer has the easiest group, but Keen has been playing pretty well lately and gumiho just won GSL so he's obviously in top form. Elazer has a decent chance against rogue for sure, but can he get another win in?
On June 30 2017 09:31 Fatam wrote: What do you guys think about foreigners' respective groups? I think TIME barely has the most doable group, but it's close and no one's getting a free pass. Classic and Dear are both great players but neither is in tip top shape, and bunny is definitely beatable.
I'd say scarlett has the hardest group. Hurricane and Ryung have both been playing fairly well lately, and innovation is innovation.
I'm somewhat tempted to say Elazer has the easiest group, but Keen has been playing pretty well lately and gumiho just won GSL so he's obviously in top form. Elazer has a decent chance against rogue for sure, but can he get another win in?
Every single one of the foreigners are matched against a top-tier Korean in the first round. So they're starting from the loser's match right off the bat.
I'd have to say MajOr or Scarlett have the best shot of advancing. MajOr has to beat Curious (doable) and sOs (doable assuming sOs isn't going on one of his end of the year runs). Scarlett has to beat Ryung (doable) and Hurricane (doable, though he has had something of a spike recently).
On June 30 2017 09:31 Fatam wrote: What do you guys think about foreigners' respective groups? I think TIME barely has the most doable group, but it's close and no one's getting a free pass. Classic and Dear are both great players but neither is in tip top shape, and bunny is definitely beatable.
I'd say scarlett has the hardest group. Hurricane and Ryung have both been playing fairly well lately, and innovation is innovation.
I'm somewhat tempted to say Elazer has the easiest group, but Keen has been playing pretty well lately and gumiho just won GSL so he's obviously in top form. Elazer has a decent chance against rogue for sure, but can he get another win in?
Every single one of the foreigners are matched against a top-tier Korean in the first round. So they're starting from the loser's match right off the bat.
I'd have to say MajOr or Scarlett have the best shot of advancing. MajOr has to beat Curious (doable) and sOs (doable assuming sOs isn't going on one of his end of the year runs). Scarlett has to beat Ryung (doable) and Hurricane (doable, though he has had something of a spike recently).
I think the main difference for me is I think TIME beating classic is actually possible, whereas scarlett vs. inno is a sure loss, as is major vs. TY. So TIME unlike the others actually might start out 1-0 and not 0-1. But on the flip side I could see major beating curious and sOs being more likely than TIME beating dear and bunny. So idk. I don't know if I have much faith in scarlett, she seems to always choke a bit on the korean stage, but maybe she can prove me wrong.
On June 30 2017 09:31 Fatam wrote: What do you guys think about foreigners' respective groups? I think TIME barely has the most doable group, but it's close and no one's getting a free pass. Classic and Dear are both great players but neither is in tip top shape, and bunny is definitely beatable.
I'd say scarlett has the hardest group. Hurricane and Ryung have both been playing fairly well lately, and innovation is innovation.
I'm somewhat tempted to say Elazer has the easiest group, but Keen has been playing pretty well lately and gumiho just won GSL so he's obviously in top form. Elazer has a decent chance against rogue for sure, but can he get another win in?
Every single one of the foreigners are matched against a top-tier Korean in the first round. So they're starting from the loser's match right off the bat.
I'd have to say MajOr or Scarlett have the best shot of advancing. MajOr has to beat Curious (doable) and sOs (doable assuming sOs isn't going on one of his end of the year runs). Scarlett has to beat Ryung (doable) and Hurricane (doable, though he has had something of a spike recently).
I think the main difference for me is I think TIME beating classic is actually possible, whereas scarlett vs. inno is a sure loss, as is major vs. TY. So TIME unlike the others actually might start out 1-0 and not 0-1. But on the flip side I could see major beating curious and sOs being more likely than TIME beating dear and bunny. So idk. I don't know if I have much faith in scarlett, she seems to always choke a bit on the korean stage, but maybe she can prove me wrong.
Classic is the best PvT player in the world right now though. He took down TY, the best TvP player in the world in both GSL and SSL. Obviously his PvZ needs work but Time (and Bunny) is Terran. Time couldn't make it to the Ro16 at Jonkoping so his odds of beating Classic are pretty damn slim.
I agree that Scarlett losing to INnoVation is as sure as it gets in pro Starcraft. They've played multiple times, so he will be expecting lots of cheese/aggression, and INnoVation is hands down the greatest TvZ player in the world. MajOr has a chance (a very slim one) against TY simply because TvT relies so heavily on doom drops and there's a chance TY chokes. NoRegret is basically praying that herO doesn't do his homework before their match. Personally, I'd say Elazer has the best shot of winning his first match out of all the foreigners (different than best chance of advancing).
Can anyone link to a NoRegret game/series that's worth watching? Am curious, really. Also nice to see that the 'foreigners' aren't fighting each other in the groups, which was a real possibility (was it Jinro and TLO or Jinro and IDRA in the early GomTV ones?)
Also, the GSL 2017 sports some awesome guitar riffs: can anyone link a playlist or somesuch? thx
Group A: Gumiho and Rogue Group B: INnoVation and Ryung Group C: aLive and soO Group D: Stats and ByuN Group E: Maru and Patience Group F: Dark and herO Group G: Classic and Bunny Group H: TY and sOs
Wow, there are clear favorites in every single group
On June 30 2017 20:49 dicey wrote: Can anyone link to a NoRegret game/series that's worth watching? Am curious, really. Also nice to see that the 'foreigners' aren't fighting each other in the groups, which was a real possibility (was it Jinro and TLO or Jinro and IDRA in the early GomTV ones?)
Also, the GSL 2017 sports some awesome guitar riffs: can anyone link a playlist or somesuch? thx
Jinro and Idra played in the ro8. I'm fairly certain they were never in a group stage together
EPT
GuMiho
Elazer
Hurricane
![[image loading]](http://stimg.afreecatv.com/NORMAL_BBS/3/9521573/1233595470a931a47.png)
![[image loading]](http://stimg.afreecatv.com/NORMAL_BBS/3/9521573/696159546e7841c3b.png)
