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On June 22 2017 17:29 MockHamill wrote:
I do care about being able to play and watch a larger variation of gameplay styles. I mostly stopped watching pro level games since their is hardly any mech games to learn from. HOTS was in much better state since both bio and mech was viable so the game was more varied and intresting to both play and watch.
First good news then : you can play every variation of gameplay style you want.
Other good news : You can see mech from time to time at pro level. Story tells that you might even see it in a GSL final.
My opinion on Mech HOTS : It was excruciatingly boring to watch and to play against. Yeah it's dead on pro level nowaday, and it's a good thing, just as it's a good thing that infestor-BL is dead. But if that's interesting to you then be happy, you can still do it if that what interest you.
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On June 22 2017 17:14 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 16:31 MockHamill wrote:
Swarm Hosts?
Carriers in team games?
Maybe address the larger issues first that matters for 99.9% of the ladder players instead of just focusing on the top 20 pro players?
Prioritizing pro players and ignoring the life of normal ladder players is what caused the SC2 decline. Just because Swarm Hosts are not an issue for the top 10 Terran on the planet (since they almost always play bio anyway) does not make this ok. Mech being dead due to a single unit is not ok.
Team play (which is a huge part of SC2) is currently in an awful state due to mass Carriers every game. Since Carriers are not used much on pro level a Carrier nerf would improve the ladder life for a huge portion of the SC2 players without screwing up pro level balance.
Every single time, every community feedback, there is a guy asking for adjustment of balance to fit its own playstyle. It still makes no sense. Guess what, I like playing lurkers vs terran: is it efficient? Not so much, not too bad either, but I kind of like it playing agressive lurker against bio. Would it help me to buff it to make it more viable against bio? Sure, then what? I'd gain maybe a league, then it would be something else that prevent me to progress. Whatever the race, whatever your playstyle, the main limitation of what your perceive as balance is your own skill. Let's say we remove SwarmHost : you'll feel good, you're going to go from plat to diamond, or diamond to master, whatever. Then you're going to hit again your own limitations of your skill in the game, and you're going to get beaten by good Viper control, or Nyddus, or Hydralisk strength, and you're going to be exactly as the state of mind as you are today.
Thank you. We need more people with your attitude in this community.
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mech vZ is viable on all maps except blood boil at the pro level. thor/hellbat/tank is certainly not my favourite iteration of mech, but it is what it is.
despite only having 1 gas at the third, Sequencer is probably the strongest mech vT map. the ramps and cliffs more than make up for this. Sequencer is the only ladder map I've seen GuMiho consistently mech vT on. he usually takes the 4th as his 3rd, and the 3rd as his 4th.
I like the Blood Boil change, but I think adding a 2nd gas at the 3rd will make Sequencer way too turtley. I think it would be better to add a 2nd gas at this location instead:
https://i.imgur.com/yeyn4y6.jpg
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First of all fix reapers. The previous fix did not achieve its goal and we see lots of mass reapers again. Is it intended for reapers to have a decisive impact on a high percentage of games? I do not think the current maps are a problem. The fact that Serral, Scarlett or Elazer can beat Neeb or Showtime from time to time does not mean the maps are bad. Perhaps they even make the MU's balanced better.
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Switzerland112 Posts
On June 22 2017 16:27 EESCLuna wrote:
Imo, i guess all are good changes because of the mineral factor. I talk from the protoss point of view and that missing gasses on the natural of BB and 3rd of secuencer are a huge nerf. Zerg and Terran have more mineral-heavy army specialy on the early - mid while protoss needs heavy gas compositions to tech to AOE or stargate.
So protoss on BB is cutting some gas tech to fit the timmings with the storm/colossi/disruptor while on secuencer takes more risk using a more exposed 3rd.
I think is good adding a 3rd gas on secuencer but less minerals to compensate the risks....
I am agreeing with you concerning the addition of the second gaz. I really think that the lack of gaz was a big problem for protoss: you either try to expand somewhere else but get crushed because the base is not defendable or you take the 1 gaz base and struggle to produce the valuable units.
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I don't understand the reasoning behind the map changes here. These are features of the map AKA gold base, only one gas at the third. In some way, it sharps the game into a different direction that is a bit unusual. I think it is a good thing. Why would you try to change them back to the old, boring, conventional way just to buff/nerf a certain race in a specific map? That is rather "tunnel vision" of a solution.
Despite all of Protoss whining about the current map pool, Neeb (a PROTOSS) managed to win it all. It shows skills, practice and execution do trump all of those "flaws" that you try to blame on.
I'm only a Plat level (AKA noob) so I guess I don't understand that the game at the highest level but I dislike a certain map because of its layout than the fact it has a gold base or missing a gas.
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The removal of the Gold base on Blood boil is probably good, but the map isn't zerg favored in TvZ.
Sequencer is fine by means of balance. Adding additional gas in the inner third will make it Protoss favored in PvZ.
In the current state, Blood boil, Defenders Landing, and Odessy are the zerg favored maps in PvZ, removing one of them will make it 2 maps zerg favored and 2 maps protoss favored (proxima and abyssal), which will be fine. So Sequencer does not require changes I think.
My PvT sucks, but its not the maps, I'd be happy if a pro player will share his opinion about the maps for PvT, as the maps are fine for ZvT (1 T favored, 1 Z favored, and the rest are quite equal, so nothing special).
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I really hope they will remove Bloodboil (it shouldn't even have made it in the pool to begin with).
In PvZ: with gold it was unplayable for P pretty much. The removal of gold will make it fine.
In TvZ: it was not that zerg favoured because of features like the very easily attackable part between the first 3 bases (disregarding the gold). Gold made it balanced.
Also what the hell is up with that snow? I can't even find a way to disable it. It's not an arcade map where you might just go for antigameplay aesthetics.
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Is this the final version of SC2 that they really want? Omfg... don't let the game die, please.
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On June 22 2017 20:18 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 17:14 Vanadiel wrote:On June 22 2017 16:31 MockHamill wrote:
Swarm Hosts?
Carriers in team games?
Maybe address the larger issues first that matters for 99.9% of the ladder players instead of just focusing on the top 20 pro players?
Prioritizing pro players and ignoring the life of normal ladder players is what caused the SC2 decline. Just because Swarm Hosts are not an issue for the top 10 Terran on the planet (since they almost always play bio anyway) does not make this ok. Mech being dead due to a single unit is not ok.
Team play (which is a huge part of SC2) is currently in an awful state due to mass Carriers every game. Since Carriers are not used much on pro level a Carrier nerf would improve the ladder life for a huge portion of the SC2 players without screwing up pro level balance.
Every single time, every community feedback, there is a guy asking for adjustment of balance to fit its own playstyle. It still makes no sense. Guess what, I like playing lurkers vs terran: is it efficient? Not so much, not too bad either, but I kind of like it playing agressive lurker against bio. Would it help me to buff it to make it more viable against bio? Sure, then what? I'd gain maybe a league, then it would be something else that prevent me to progress. Whatever the race, whatever your playstyle, the main limitation of what your perceive as balance is your own skill. Let's say we remove SwarmHost : you'll feel good, you're going to go from plat to diamond, or diamond to master, whatever. Then you're going to hit again your own limitations of your skill in the game, and you're going to get beaten by good Viper control, or Nyddus, or Hydralisk strength, and you're going to be exactly as the state of mind as you are today. Thank you. We need more people with your attitude in this community.
Quote, I agree with you Wire (and Vanadiel) 
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Why not just put Rich Vespene Geysers in the back of Blood Boil like what the mapmaker wanted? That's the whole point of having 10 mineral matches and 1 geyser.
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besides maps i was expecting something about reapers openings.
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I don't understand why there is still often a sweet spot for positioning Overlords on a high ground near the jokepoints of Natural or 3rd to scout. It's an unnecessary avantage for scouting the army composition in the early game in ZvX.
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On June 23 2017 01:27 Zulu23 wrote:
I don't understand why there is still often a sweet spot for positioning Overlords on a high ground near the jokepoints of Natural or 3rd to scout. It's an unnecessary avantage for scouting the army composition in the early game in ZvX.
The other races have tools to do the same.
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Why have gold minerals at all anyway? I hate the high risk high reward bs.
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it´s so sad looking zerg saying "fix reapers" when his only compos on pvz are lingbanehydra (1A). Let´s make micro more rewardable like the LOTV video said on the beggining. Destroy the 1-a or the plant and forget (lib mine tank) compositions so people can start thinking they lose because they fail, not by imba simple shit.
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United States1902 Posts
Overgrowth, Daybreak, Frost, kss, Newkirk, Ascension to Aiur and Whirlwind map pool please
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On June 23 2017 08:50 mizenhauer wrote:
Overgrowth, Daybreak, Frost, kss, Newkirk, Ascension to Aiur and Whirlwind map pool please
Nah, everyone and their mother is sick to death of half those maps
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On June 23 2017 09:00 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2017 08:50 mizenhauer wrote:
Overgrowth, Daybreak, Frost, kss, Newkirk, Ascension to Aiur and Whirlwind map pool please Nah, everyone and their mother is sick to death of half those maps
At least he has Ascension to Aiur on the list  . That is my personal favorite map in the current map pool.
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On June 22 2017 20:18 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 17:14 Vanadiel wrote:On June 22 2017 16:31 MockHamill wrote:
Swarm Hosts?
Carriers in team games?
Maybe address the larger issues first that matters for 99.9% of the ladder players instead of just focusing on the top 20 pro players?
Prioritizing pro players and ignoring the life of normal ladder players is what caused the SC2 decline. Just because Swarm Hosts are not an issue for the top 10 Terran on the planet (since they almost always play bio anyway) does not make this ok. Mech being dead due to a single unit is not ok.
Team play (which is a huge part of SC2) is currently in an awful state due to mass Carriers every game. Since Carriers are not used much on pro level a Carrier nerf would improve the ladder life for a huge portion of the SC2 players without screwing up pro level balance.
Every single time, every community feedback, there is a guy asking for adjustment of balance to fit its own playstyle. It still makes no sense. Guess what, I like playing lurkers vs terran: is it efficient? Not so much, not too bad either, but I kind of like it playing agressive lurker against bio. Would it help me to buff it to make it more viable against bio? Sure, then what? I'd gain maybe a league, then it would be something else that prevent me to progress. Whatever the race, whatever your playstyle, the main limitation of what your perceive as balance is your own skill. Let's say we remove SwarmHost : you'll feel good, you're going to go from plat to diamond, or diamond to master, whatever. Then you're going to hit again your own limitations of your skill in the game, and you're going to get beaten by good Viper control, or Nyddus, or Hydralisk strength, and you're going to be exactly as the state of mind as you are today. Thank you. We need more people with your attitude in this community.
This an awfull horribly entitled and totally self centered and conflictive attitude, we DON'T NEED more of this in the community.
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EPT
