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Hello everyone, today we would like to talk about some of the upcoming changes being placed on the testing matchmaking.
Protoss Air Power
We want to shift some of Protoss’s air strength around. We are buffing the Tempest’s damage vs massive bonus and adding a downside to the Void Ray’s Prismatic Alignment.
Since we increased its supply cost back in November, the Tempest’s air to air attack has been unchanged. This has made it less desirable as a Protoss capital ship option, and we want to sharpen its role vs other capital ships with a buff to its massive damage. This should also make it more of an interesting option in PvP as a response to an opponent going for Carriers.
We believe that Void Rays could be a bit less straightforward powerful. To this end we are testing out a change to Prismatic Alignment that will decrease the speed of the Void Ray while the ability is active. This tradeoff between power and speed should allow for more counter play from the opponent as they can now better decide when to run, and when to stand and fight.
Zealot
We are testing a reduction of the Charge upgrade cost to help Zealots out. Due to it being the most expensive upgrade on the Twilight Council the upgrade is less interesting to get early on compared to other options. However, we are also open to considering other changes to the Zealot.
Thor
In a very experimental change, we are removing the High Impact Payload option from the Thor and instead changing its Javelin Missile Launchers to be flat damage instead of providing a bonus vs. light. While this does reduce the Thor’s single target damage vs high armor capital ships, it greatly increases its overall damage to most grouped air units.
Burrowed Infestor Art
We are making burrowed Infestors more easily seen without detection. This was done in response to feedback that the Infestor was too hard to see compared to other active burrowed units like Widow Mines.
Warp Prism
In a previous community feedback we mentioned a potential change to Warp Prism’s warp-in mode. With the number of other changes proposed we are going to hold off on implementing this into testing for now. This is to prevent too many changes from going in at once and possibly causing the results of testing to be less clear.
Swarm Hosts
As an additional note, we hear that there is concern that Swarm Hosts continue to inhibit Terran Mech play. We are continuing to gather feedback but have not included changes in this round of testing so as to give more focus on other changes first.
Of course, none of these changes are final and are subject to altered or be removed. Let us know what you think in the comments, and we will see you in the testing matchmaking when it goes live!
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Edit 1: Details for April 20 balance testing released
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20720316/call-to-action-april-20-balance-testing-4-20-2017
Terran
Thor
High Impact Payload mode removed.
Javelin Missile Launchers damage increased from 6 (+6 vs light) to 12.
Raven
Auto-Turret damage reduced from 24 to 18.
Auto-Turret duration increased from 7.14 to 10 seconds.
Protoss
Tempest
Kinetic Overload damage increased from 30 (+14 massive) to 30 (+25 massive).
Void Ray
Prismatic Alignment slows the Void Ray by 40% while active.
Zealot
Charge upgrade cost lowered from 200/200 to 100/100.
Zerg
Undetected burrow move visual effects should be more visible.
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Also, somewhat unrelated, they also released a blog post about a "rewind' feature that is coming to Patch 3.13.0
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20719765/patch-3130-preview-rewind-4-20-2017
"StarCraft II challenges you to constantly improve your skills and push yourself to new heights. There are many methods available to help a player improve, but the most fundamental one is reviewing your replays to understand what mechanics need the most attention. We’re introducing a new feature, Rewind, to make navigating your replays easier than ever before.
Currently, if you had just completed a match and wanted to review the final battle, you would need to exit the match, find and load the replay, and fast-forward to that critical moment. Now, after a game ends, the new ‘Rewind’ button will appear on the Victory or Defeat dialogue. Clicking on it will immediately convert the game into a fully loaded replay, allowing you to rapidly jump to any point in the match. In addition to the end-of-match dialogue, you can also ‘Quit and Rewind’ during a match through the in-game menu. You’ll be able to see exactly where that proxy Pylon was hiding in mere seconds!
The Rewind feature will be available in all modes that support replays normally, including Multiplayer, Arcade, and Co-op. Note that if you are in a party, Rewind will place you in your own replay and will not affect your teammates — if you want to watch a replay with your teammates, you will still need to utilize the ‘Watch With Others’ feature.
+ Show Spoiler +
Whether you’re a streamer making tutorials, a commander who wants to know who’s really carrying their weight in Co-op, or a ladder hero perfecting their mechanics, we hope the new Rewind feature will make reviewing key moments in StarCraft II better than ever."
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So, to summarize : David Kim is gone and changes seem good?
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On April 21 2017 02:37 eviltomahawk wrote:
Thor
In a very experimental change, we are removing the High Impact Payload option from the Thor and instead changing its Javelin Missile Launchers to be flat damage instead of providing a bonus vs. light. While this does reduce the Thor’s single target damage vs high armor capital ships, it greatly increases its overall damage to most grouped air units.
I swear they tried this before
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On April 21 2017 02:44 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2017 02:37 eviltomahawk wrote:
Thor
In a very experimental change, we are removing the High Impact Payload option from the Thor and instead changing its Javelin Missile Launchers to be flat damage instead of providing a bonus vs. light. While this does reduce the Thor’s single target damage vs high armor capital ships, it greatly increases its overall damage to most grouped air units.
I swear they tried this before
Maybe they looked at it last year?
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20743005369
I forgot if it made it into testing though.
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They should give zealot +10 shields to make them better at absorbing damage.
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Austria24417 Posts
Charge being cheaper is certainly nice, but the upgrade cost was never the issue. It's that widow mines still kill chargelots, and charge/archon has essentially no anti-air capabilities to deal with pushes that include liberators. I'm all for making charge/archon a big thing again, but I don't think this is enough. If anything I'd say leave the cost as it is and focus on its build time instead, or buff zealot shields so they can deal with mines better.
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To see more Zealots in TvZ it would be nice if it was possible for Zealots to somehow drag mine shots into the Terran army, similar to BW. This could be probably done with the charge being slightly faster and Zealots more resilient(?)
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Move charge to cyber core as well.
p.s. glad they forgot about adepts (?).
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We are buffing the Tempest’s damage vs massive bonus
we want to sharpen its role vs other capital ships with a buff to its massive damage.
Isn't this also a buff vs. Thors ? Thor's are massive units.
One of the biggest reasons why mech is not viable is the lack of strong and reliable AA, that is able to compete with other lategame comps. Especially mass air like BL/Viper/Hydra or Mass tempest/Carrier can hardcounter mech very easy simply because mech can't bring up enough AA power.
Vikings are too fragile to fit the role of a reliable lategame AA power unit.
The addition of parasitic bombs, split up mech upgrades and buffed corruptors makes Vikings not only terrible vs Protoss (Storms), but also terrible vs zerg lategame.
I think it would be good to turn Thors into a unit that can keep up with mass air compositions, because other wise we will simply don't see mech.
Anti air is such an important aspect. Having not enough anti air is always game ending. If you want to make Mech viable or terran in general better in lategame, you have to give terran a strong and reliable GtA unit, that can keep up with the other races.
In the current version of SC2, mech can be hardcountered by basically sitting back and just massing air units.
The key to more healthy RTS gameplay is to give every race and playstyle reliable Ground-to-air units.
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On April 21 2017 03:25 StraKo wrote:Show nested quote +we want to sharpen its role vs other capital ships with a buff to its massive damage. Isn't this also a buff vs. Thors ? Thor's are massive units.
Pretty sure they're talking only against massive air units. Like it was in HotS.
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No! Let's not buff Protoss Air T_T. Why can't we just buff their ground army so we can see more skirmishes in the early/mid game? I wouldn't mind seeing buffs/changes to Stalkers and Zealots to make other Gateway units aside from the Adepts useful again. Aside from the air changes the rest of the proposed changes looks good!
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On April 21 2017 03:23 insitelol wrote:
Move charge to cyber core as well.
p.s. glad they forgot about adepts (?).
I think the -10 health on Adepts already got implemented into the game
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On April 21 2017 03:30 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2017 03:25 StraKo wrote:We are buffing the Tempest’s damage vs massive bonus
we want to sharpen its role vs other capital ships with a buff to its massive damage. Isn't this also a buff vs. Thors ? Thor's are massive units. Pretty sure they're talking only against massive air units. Like it was in HotS.
If this is the case then im very happy. Buffing a high ranged flying siege unit with high HP is basically the worst possible thing you could do, if you want to make mech viable.
If they buff Anti-air units im totally fine with it, doesn't matter which race.
Big air units like BL/Carrier/Tempest/BC just create absolutely terrible and frustrating gameplay.
I personally think that air units should be nothing more than tactical tools, something like a banshee or phenix. I really dislike this capital type of air unit. Those units have absolutely zero interesting aspects. They are just expensive, slow and super strong. They also all share those traits. It's terrible.
At some point it just becomes a matter of who can mass more air units or if the opponent is able to bring up enough AA.
This is very one dimensional RTS gameplay in my opinion.
I think SC2 would be better, if ground based army compositions would be more dominant, instead of someone just sitting back massing Air unit X and then slowly crawl across the map.
The beauty of ground units is that you have to consider a lot of tactical factors like the positioning of the opponents army, choke points, high and low grounds, etc...
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The Thor change is interesting. Not sure if is strong enough but mech need serious help vs Air. An alternative change would be keeping High Impact Payload but increase its damage so Thors do a better job vs capital ships.
Swarm Hosts must be nerfed. They are much to cheap and very hard to counter with mech. They basically counter mech harder than the immortal did back in HOTS: The problem is that they are so easily massed, mech will never work as long as Swarm Hosts just cost 75 gas. I suggest increasing the gas cost to 125.
I agree with decreasing the cost of Zealot charge. Using more Zealots and less mass Adepts should be encouraged for the sake of game diversity.
I disagree with giving Tempest increased damage vs Massive. It may help in PvP but it will make it even harder to fight against Carriers in TvP. BC currently is the only working counter to Carriers, if they become easily countered by Tempest then Terran has no answer to Protoss air. Maybe if the Thor anti-air damage was strong enough this would be an ok change though.
I agree with the Void Ray change. Making Void Rays slower while using Prismatic Alignment would provide more counter play options.
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Tempest change, means no more BCs vs toss lategame? Needs to be tested, but seems like it kills any chance Terran has lategame.
Thor change seems massive for TvT viking wars. Useless vs toss, not great vs high armor Corruptors and they're still really bad vs Broods and food for Vipers.
I know it sounds like I'm complaining, but I'm still happy with this feedback. It seems they're going towards the right direction. DK is gone and there is hope for this game again.
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Changes seem reasonable. I'm a fan of the void ray nerf--it seems more targeted than a straight stats nerf.
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Tempest cannot be buffed. Ever. It's a unit you mass and accumulate late game. How do balance devs not understand instead of massing carriers you'll then just mass tempests instead, even in PvP late game.
Air units should never be buffed honestly. Across all 3 races. It's just bad for gameplay when air units are stronger than ground units.
Units like the Thor that they mention should be made stronger against air so you can play actual ground versus ground games where units are traded, instead of massed and accumulated with nothing happening.
There currently is no AA mech unit because Thors don't trade vs even a few capital air units like goliaths do in SC1. At least they are looking at this but they should really look at the custom upgrade that i made ages ago that made thors able to counter air units.
Swarmhost are finally mentioned after 5 months - hooray. This unit is complete and utter idiocy and has ruined the game for many players for a while. It needs not one change - it needs multiple massive changes. A unit like this cannot be mega fast. A unit can't be this cheap as it is now. And it needs to have potentially the light tag so that it can be chased down by hellions, adepts, or whatever.
I dunno if anyone has seen me or other players abusing swarmhost vs mech/protoss on stream. It's really disgusting how if you can get up to 20 swarmhost you can just continuously bomb bases with zero counter play.
The unit needs to be eviscerated by the balance team and never seen again. It does not belong in an RTS game.
I do not understand the reasoning of ruining the game for the last 5 months with swarmhosts in their current state. Let's hope this balance team without a certain heavy weight holding them back can start making actual balance changes that are relevant to the game.
I will admit it's refreshing to see a balance team that might actually have some balls again posting updates. Maybe we'll see some ITERATION after all.
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Message to David Kims successor, NERF ALL AIR UNITS
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On April 21 2017 04:05 Saggymidgetbooty6969 wrote:
Message to David Kims successor, NERF ALL AIR UNITS
can't believe the overseer can still spawn changelings, so stupid... why are we giving the zerg map hacks in 2017?
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On April 21 2017 04:05 Saggymidgetbooty6969 wrote:
Message to David Kims successor, NERF ALL AIR UNITS
Yep. Air units make for stalemate / turtle gameplay. Because they are stronger than ground, so whoever masses more air always has the advantage.
Command and Conquer Red Alert 3 had this problem for a while as well.
If anyone wonders why Brood War is such an exciting game to watch - there's very rarely, if ever mass air vs air games. Like the goal of a Brood War game is not to sit afk and mass air every single game. Sure, there are mass wraith TvT games and carriers in TvP but these things also have clear cut counters and aren't oppressive to the point that the entire game is that from end to finish.
Issue with air units in SC2 is that once you reach around 130-140 supply every race has an air unit that is flat out stronger than any ground anti-air. Broodlords, tempest, carrier, BC, liberators... all these units are unhealthy as fuck for the game because they have no ground counters. The only counter to these units is to mass your own air units.
The only healthy-for-gameplay air units in SC2 from my point of view at least are mutalisks, phoenixes, and banshees. These units have clear weaknesses and are very vulnerable to splash damage en masse. Also ground anti-air can manage with masses of these units. Like sure, you can mass muta, phoenix, and banshee if you really want to, but your opponent can respond with thors, widowmines, storm, stalkers, archons, etc. and end up with a stronger ground army.
The balance team really should consider looking at ground anti-air across the board or they should look at current supply costs of all of the "oppressive" air units in the game. Perhaps increasing supply of broodlords, BC, carrier, tempest, raven, will dissuade the massing of them or it'll shift more supply into player's ground armies to be able to handle these "bullshit" lategame armies.
Just a thought.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM809rKWoAAiV0C.jpg)
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