EPTRandom Race - Page 2
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playa
United States1284 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
I think it's ok in most circumstances but in some situations (last scout on 4 player map in mirror) it becomes unfair. However I don't think they will ever change it considering they haven't done it in 7 years despite heavy complaints. | ||
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BSJ_ACOLYTE
Korea (North)6 Posts
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Jandos
Czech Republic928 Posts
On April 13 2017 01:04 Charoisaur wrote: This has been discussed since wol release. I think it's ok in most circumstances but in some situations (last scout on 4 player map in mirror) it becomes unfair. However I don't think they will ever change it considering they haven't done it in 7 years despite heavy complaints. Are you serious ? What becomes unfair ? YOU are the one who want unfair advantage against your random opponent. If you playing random you need to be good at all three races. That is the point of playing random, you worked and studied harder so you should be in better position against your opponent who play only one race. You have moment of surprise which you deserve. | ||
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BSJ_ACOLYTE
Korea (North)6 Posts
On April 13 2017 01:14 Jandos wrote: Are you serious ? What becomes unfair ? YOU are the one who want unfair advantage against your random opponent. If you playing random you need to be good at all three races. That is the point of playing random, you worked and studied harder so you should be in better position against your opponent who play only one race. You have moment of surprise which you deserve. wow what a disgusting sentiment - you people are unworthy of being alive | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On April 13 2017 01:12 BSJ_ACOLYTE wrote: What is preventing people from rolling a dice at home? What sensible reason is preventing the players from knowing the matchup? You're talking about sensibility and then want people to roll a dice at home to pick their race in the same post. Right. Also it has already been discussed in this thread what a good reason for hiding the random player's race is. They are inherently disadvantaged as a player who has to practice/understand three times the match-ups. Do you know why there has been little to no random players in the professional scene? Because it just isn't possible to keep your skill level up to par with other professionals when you spread your practice across 3 whole races. That is why it is hard to take people complaining about showing people who select random as a race seriously. It is also why it is completely "sensible" to hide it. | ||
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
With Random the Random opponent potentially gets full map scouting time advantage until their 3 Reaper producing rax are spotted; as if 3 rax isn't hard enough, this can be masked. Random puts the non-random at a terrible disadvantage. I wish that Random were eliminated or else people could refuse Random matches on ladder. | ||
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Jandos
Czech Republic928 Posts
wow what a disgusting sentiment - you people are unworthy of being alive From two days old troll account I take it as honor. Anyway, it is the same principle as in real life. People who studied and worked harder than others are usually rewarded later. People who were lazy complain why they arent in same position. | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On April 13 2017 01:33 Jandos wrote: From two days old troll account I take it as honor. Anyway, it is the same principle as in real life. People who studied and worked harder than others are usually rewarded later. People who were lazy complain why they arent in same position. He literally PM'd me and told me to kill myself. Like if you can't have a discussion on a discussion forum without telling people to kill themselves a few posts in... your opinion probably wasn't valid in the first place.  | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
I don't consider myself at a disadvantage and wish my race were displayed to stop the hostility. There's no unfair DISadvantage in playing random; you wouldn't get mad at someone for practicing three times as much as do, would you? So why should there be a competitive advantage? I used to play in Master but now I play only like 50 games a season and I'm in platinum. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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xenoZhang
China142 Posts
and when I play people with Random race, I almost always go for very aggressive opening, (TVR with gas first 111, ZVR 13 pool with ling speed/droplords, PVR with 1 or 2 gate pressure) As many random players only have a few openings and are not very familiar with defending unorthodox strategies. | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On April 13 2017 01:42 DickMcFanny wrote: I'm one of those random players who tell their race at the start of the game. I don't consider myself at a disadvantage and wish my race were displayed to stop the hostility. There's no unfair DISadvantage in playing random; you wouldn't get mad at someone for practicing three times as much as do, would you? So why should there be a competitive advantage? I used to play in Master but now I play only like 50 games a season and I'm in platinum. Think it would be a good compromise to allow random players to choose if they want to display their race at the loading screen. And I don't think there is an "unfair" disadvantage in playing random. I mean, you are literally choosing it. There is obviously advantages of playing random but there is no way that playing random is overall advantageous. I don't think that point even needs to be made into a discussion or else you'd be seeing professionals playing random lol. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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Odowan Paleolithic
United States232 Posts
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fluidrone
France1478 Posts
On April 13 2017 00:04 BSJ_ACOLYTE wrote: There are three playable races: Terran, Protoss & Zerg. Random is not a race; it's a feature that picks one of the three aforementioned races for you. As far as I can tell, the only sensible reason to pick Random is grinding the Random portraits. Do I think the loading screen should show the matchup? I do. 2nd best option: allow reasonable decent human beings who choose the Random option to reveal the matchup by choice. i went off on holiday and missed your lack of brains: i'm so glad On April 13 2017 01:28 WeddingEpisode wrote: You've got to be kidding that Random is not an advantage. With Random the Random opponent potentially gets full map scouting time advantage until their 3 Reaper producing rax are spotted; as if 3 rax isn't hard enough, this can be masked. Random puts the non-random at a terrible disadvantage. I wish that Random were eliminated or else people could refuse Random matches on ladder. ? wow.. you ever played as random ? you should try a few weeks, then consequently convert to playing random half of the time and the other half choosing one of the three as you like .. and in the end have more fun with the game On April 12 2017 22:52 Thieving Magpie wrote: I personally would rather no race be visible at any point until you scout the opponent. I think it would lead to more standardized builds and more interesting lines of play. <3i completely agree and we would all be randoms <3 blizzard placed a loading screen for loading time / synching time / etc nothing more! random is a fourth race in a game of 3 races, it exists as a separate race and is fine and original as such, why do people want to change that? just for the sake of changing it? Random players can be cheesers .. can be playing on assumptions of one race poneys .. can be a good player / bad player .. can want to use strategy / can want to use whatever the latest meta is etc etc it is the fourth race, trying it for a few weeks is guaranteed to convert you to playing the different races !!! On April 12 2017 23:01 Darkhorse wrote: I've played a decent bit of random on the ladder and I always immediately tell my opponent what race I got. But as Cascade already mentioned most of them don't believe me and scout me anyway (totally understandable, I've never done this but I've had people I played against tell me they were something they weren't which I also don't mind I find it pretty amusing). I honestly don't think it affects play too much. Just means someone has to scout slightly earlier (not a huge deal) and Terrans/Toss will wall their ramp every time just in case you happen to be Zerg. Your scout arrives at your opponent before you have to make a big decision anyway unless you are planning on a proxy or some kind of cheese. And sometimes if you're on a four player map and can't reliably get a scout in before you have to make one of those decisions you have to just bite the bullet and do a safe build. People should scout regardless of race / random, that is a part of the game that is vital and having a random player to face just reminds "normal" players of this and this is good for the community of players .. this is a plus! i stopped playing (coz no time) but i always played random (in bwar too) .. i think i'll never be top at any of the three races in sc, but i can be top at having fun and presenting my own sets of challenges to ladder grinders who have to adapt to them.. i mostly always typed my race, just coz .. you know, it is interaction (so fun to see how most don't trust you the first games and then on the half dozen of you typing it, they end up trusting you a little  and again this breeds more player interaction! = more strategy! )i did refrain when playing people i played earlier and were jerks (to me) .. and in that case it sounded like yes there was an advantage that random wield in the early game (it mostly prevents players from turtling "safely") .. but that advantage does not come near to the advantage of playing only one race and knowing it / using it .. more (than randoms do). so i guess in that case i would proxy rax/ hatch / cannon rush anyway so it doesn't change things much  i think playing random is a philosophy / karma thing .. i like to discover my race at the last moment i like not choosing it! As a random player, you exist as a separate choice that wants to enjoy all the genie that is a game with 3 different races and the ensuing numerous and very different match ups.. it is the best way to understand all three races and their different gameplays As for changing the loading screen? to prevent the random player an advantage? (lol on that one) to be purer? i don't care, but is the whole essence of the random player not that he is different from the other three..? i happen to wish it so, so i would say keep it as is but in any case people should scout and play the random players who will be de masked from there .. that is not really an issue worth consideration, it sets in that this is a given (you must scout or be aggressive yourself to be on equal footing, it reduces and simultaneously widens the palette of gameplay at once.. fun fun fun! On April 13 2017 04:21 Odowan Paleolithic wrote: I don't have a problem with scouting (and metagaming) against random. I do however believe the random is not actually statistically random due to PRNGs. And it is quite skewed toward zerg. Agreed, statistically skewed, i never got enough toss to get all the units dynamics and f ck the number of times that i got zerg 7 times in a row in one sitting / playing session  (don't get me wrong i love all three races but as a random you end up hating when that happens) i love palette of gameplay and randomness satisfies this well, go put my race on the loading screen, i won't mind, i don't even have a tl random icon so ...  feed ze back | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
1. R is harder Yes, you have to (try to) be able to play every match-up in the game. I honestly think this was good practice and experience as a new player to try a lot of builds in a lot of different match-ups. You come to understand how certain match-ups feel from both perspectives at varying points in the game which can be incredibly useful. 2. Opponent being R is a disadvantage. Briefly. This advantage is dramatically reduced upon scouting. Nowadays against random I tend to just try and open safely. Frequently R player will reveal their race with a scout also. 3. 1. is a greater disadvantage than 2. Besides the fact that there are no top random players, 9 match-ups is greater than 3 which would make this seem like a no-brainer. Even accounting for the fact that you might have to learn a new general safe build to play against R you still get 9 > 4, which disregards the fact that R might have to learn 3 new safe builds to play against R themselves in the rare case you get an RvR (making it 12 > 4). Math. 4. Telling people your race I didn't tell people at the start what race I was unless they asked in which case I generally told them. I don't tend to ask people what race they are now that I main Z, nor would I expect them to tell me. Personally, and maybe this is just because I have played R in the past, I don't think the advantage of having your race unknown to the opponent at the start is substantial enough to justify the forced disclosure of what race RNJesus bestowed upon you (per the above math). I also think it takes away from the, for lack of a better word, randomness of playing random. I enjoy the ladder dynamic of the occasional random player (which would completely disappear if the opponent knows R's race from the start). 5. Openings and cheesiness I feel it is irresponsible to paint all random players as cheesy (or to disregard the fact that some of them are). Many main racers (I guess would be the term?) are cheesy as well. That being said, it is more challenging to come up with a build that is safe against all 3 races. However, this is a part of the dynamic I also enjoy. Many great games and build orders come from unorthodox openings and situations. The whole concept of creative limitation comes to mind. I use these games to try new things, new strategies and most importantly - have fun ^_^. | ||
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LordOfDabu
United States394 Posts
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LegoesRockRaider
Denmark6 Posts
Also i don't thing protoss have as hard a time on 4 player maps vs random, as they used to have. Now they can just make adepts and be good vs everything  | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On April 13 2017 06:09 LegoesRockRaider wrote: I would personally very much like to see the race and spawn location of my apponent at the beginning. Instead of showing all the possible start locations at the start of the game, it could show where the opponent actually spawned. I don't think games should be decidet by whenever you scout your opponent first or last on a four player map. Also i don't thing protoss have as hard a time on 4 player maps vs random, as they used to have. Now they can just make adepts and be good vs everything I know shitposts are discouraged on TL but god damn do I want to give you a thumbs up. You deserve to make that post man, cause the last few posters did a good job of beating the topic to death (in a good way). | ||
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