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lunareaping
Canada16 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
1) Playing random is harder than sticking to one race. 2) The opponent not knowing which race you are is an advantage for the random player. 3) 1) is a stronger effect than 2). Proof: none of the top players play random. 4) Some random players want the advantage in 2). Other random players don't, and tell their race at the start. Opponents, understandably, don't always trust them though. 5) Many players are frustrated by playing vs random, as they don't know how to open. It seems like especially toss struggle on 4 player maps, where it can be coin-flippy when choosing opening BO. I think that's most of it. Most of what you'll read below will be variations of this I think, but often less civilized. Point 5) for example often turns into "random players are filthy cheesers!!! signed: toss player". | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States1461 Posts
On April 12 2017 22:52 Thieving Magpie wrote: I personally would rather no race be visible at any point until you scout the opponent. I think it would lead to more standardized builds and more interesting lines of play. sounds like a cheeser's paradise to me | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
I honestly don't think it affects play too much. Just means someone has to scout slightly earlier (not a huge deal) and Terrans/Toss will wall their ramp every time just in case you happen to be Zerg. Your scout arrives at your opponent before you have to make a big decision anyway unless you are planning on a proxy or some kind of cheese. And sometimes if you're on a four player map and can't reliably get a scout in before you have to make one of those decisions you have to just bite the bullet and do a safe build. | ||
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Gullis
Sweden740 Posts
On April 12 2017 22:52 Thieving Magpie wrote: I personally would rather no race be visible at any point until you scout the opponent. I think it would lead to more standardized builds and more interesting lines of play. Not a fan of this because it would mean it would be a different meta game in tournaments than on ladder. | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On April 12 2017 14:08 lunareaping wrote: I understand people enjoy playing random, but why can't we have it so the chosen race is depicted during load screen so the other player can open accordingly I don't understand the thought process behind this. You want Blizzard to reveal the random player's race at the same time for both players so you can play better against them? Am I understanding this correctly? Like, Starcraft is a game of incomplete information. You do not know for certain at all times what your opponent is doing so you must piece together what you can see and what you do know to form the most accurate picture you can and respond appropriately. In my experience a lot of Brood War players whine and kick random players out of lobbies because there is no matchmaking and it is the most hilarious thing to me. I'm personally glad Blizzard conceals the random player's race in Starcraft 2 because at some point you have to just shit on the horrible mentality that plagues a good portion of Starcraft players that people can't use strategy in a strategy game. It is not a faux pas to cheese, to play unconventional, or to play random. If this bothers you, either download map hacks or play a different game. | ||
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Aegwynn
Italy460 Posts
On April 12 2017 23:01 Darkhorse wrote: I've played a decent bit of random on the ladder and I always immediately tell my opponent what race I got. But as Cascade already mentioned most of them don't believe me and scout me anyway (totally understandable, I've never done this but I've had people I played against tell me they were something they weren't which I also don't mind I find it pretty amusing). I honestly don't think it affects play too much. Just means someone has to scout slightly earlier (not a huge deal) and Terrans/Toss will wall their ramp every time just in case you happen to be Zerg. Your scout arrives at your opponent before you have to make a big decision anyway unless you are planning on a proxy or some kind of cheese. And sometimes if you're on a four player map and can't reliably get a scout in before you have to make one of those decisions you have to just bite the bullet and do a safe build. I always scout even if they tell me their races, not because i don't trust them but i feel like they tell me only because they don't want me to scout them. Never seen anyone lie about his race so far anyways. I like the way random works i don't see any problem here at all. | ||
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On April 12 2017 23:20 Aegwynn wrote: I always scout even if they tell me their races, not because i don't trust them but i feel like they tell me only because they don't want me to scout them. Never seen anyone lie about his race so far anyways. I like the way random works i don't see any problem here at all. I've had some people lie about their race but it's just a little gamesmanship that I can appreciate. I agree with you and I also always scout anyway. But then I always scout opponents early regardless of if they are random. The only times I haven't told someone what race I got is when immediately upon entering the game they type "race?" or even "tell me what race you got" like I'm required to tell them. At that point I just tell them to scout and find out haha. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On April 12 2017 14:24 Cascade wrote: Let me sum up this common points in this discussion. 1) Playing random is harder than sticking to one race. 2) The opponent not knowing which race you are is an advantage for the random player. 3) 1) is a stronger effect than 2). Proof: none of the top players play random. 4) Some random players want the advantage in 2). Other random players don't, and tell their race at the start. Opponents, understandably, don't always trust them though. 5) Many players are frustrated by playing vs random, as they don't know how to open. It seems like especially toss struggle on 4 player maps, where it can be coin-flippy when choosing opening BO. I think that's most of it. Most of what you'll read below will be variations of this I think, but often less civilized. Point 5) for example often turns into "random players are filthy cheesers!!! signed: toss player". 1b) Knowing the right scouting and cheese defenses for all 9 matchups is tough. A random player whose race is known from the start would be disadvantaged against a sharp opener from having had barely any practice against it. It's not an advantage to switch the complaints from highly against-random to randoms who get cheesed every game. | ||
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Aron Times
United States312 Posts
1. I have no control over where my SCV goes, so he could get picked off or be completely safe at the whims of RNGesus. 2. On some spawns, I can wall with my attachments. On some maps, I have to build extra buildings. 3. On some spawns, my attachments are completely safe, but in other spawns, they are completely exposed. Or what about Zerg? 1. If my minerals are south of the hatchery, then I get a small advantage over other players. 2. If my minerals are not south of the hatchery, then I am disadvantages a little bit. 3. If I send my overlord to the wrong spot, then I don't get to see what my opponent is building. Or Protoss... 1. If he builds a | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 12 2017 22:52 Thieving Magpie wrote: I personally would rather no race be visible at any point until you scout the opponent. I think it would lead to more standardized builds and more interesting lines of play. The cheese though | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 12 2017 23:56 Eternal Dalek wrote: Or Protoss... 1. If he builds a What about "I have to guess which base to keep MC at cause idk where I'll get dropped" | ||
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BSJ_ACOLYTE
Korea (North)6 Posts
As far as I can tell, the only sensible reason to pick Random is grinding the Random portraits. Do I think the loading screen should show the matchup? I do. 2nd best option: allow reasonable decent human beings who choose the Random option to reveal the matchup by choice. | ||
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Aiobhill
Germany283 Posts
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On April 13 2017 00:04 BSJ_ACOLYTE wrote: There are three playable races: Terran, Protoss & Zerg. Random is not a race; it's a feature that picks one of the three aforementioned races for you. As far as I can tell, the only sensible reason to pick Random is grinding the Random portraits. Do I think the loading screen should show the matchup? I do. 2nd best option: allow reasonable decent human beings who choose the Random option to reveal the matchup by choice. You literally listed no reasons other than because you want to. There has historically been quite a few successful random / race pickers from the beginning of Starcraft so obviously there is other sensible reasons other than some portraits. Testie, Eriador, Oystein, TreK, TLO, Gumiho, Nerchio have all been random players or race pickers at one point. I don't want to be condescending but I'm not sure what is with the entitlement posts where people feel like they should know what race they are going against so they can play better against a player who already puts puts themselves at a disadvantage by playing 9 match-ups instead of 3. Or the fact that you don't personally see a reason for X, so it shouldn't be done despite the fact that other people obviously DO have reasons for doing it. | ||
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BSJ_ACOLYTE
Korea (North)6 Posts
BSJ_ACOLYTE wrote: sensible reason User was warned for this post | ||
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BSJ_ACOLYTE
Korea (North)6 Posts
I cannot even remember the last time I played against someone who choose Random. Granted I only play casually these days but still. | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
On April 13 2017 00:40 BSJ_ACOLYTE wrote: Entitlement? I for one do not feel entitled to anything. I'm just trying to reason (an optimistic endavour, I know). I cannot even remember the last time I played against someone who choose Random. Granted I only play casually these days but still. Some players enjoy playing all 3 races and leaving it up to the game to decide. Is that really so hard to understand? Just because it is something you don't agree with personally doesn't mean it isn't sensible. | ||
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