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On March 20 2017 09:48 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 07:21 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 07:07 Bijan wrote:On March 20 2017 06:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On March 20 2017 05:58 ImbaTosS wrote:
Great, blizz gonna split the BW fanbase to start extracting profit again. Grubby hands. if profit were Blizzard's #1 goal WC3 would've been their last RTS and Morhaime would've let ATVI turn Blizzard into a WoW expansion pack factory. Great point. I don't really understand this notion that Blizzard has no love for Starcraft. I think BW fans owuld argue if Blizzard really loved Starcraft, they wouldn't have shut out BW, instead of supporting both. I think they tried too hard to utterly replace BW, for the sake or profit. what happened was certain korean orgs refused to acknowledge Blizzard IP rights. Blizzard reacted by trying to stomp them out with SC2. that is all ancient history now though.
I'm not necessarily talking about about the 08-'10 lawsuits, I'm saying everything they did to wean people off BW onto SC2, primarily from '10-13.
After SC2 came out, they kinda put BW and WC3 off to the wayside because they wanted to push SC2 really bad.
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Baa?21248 Posts
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already.
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On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already.
I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens.
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On March 18 2017 11:19 Bijan wrote:
I am also absolutely convinced now that BW HD is coming out. I wonder what the pricing will be.
To be honest, it's not going to matter what price it is. They could charge $100 I'm still gonna get it.
However, if we're being realistic, I see it launching at between 20 and 40 USD
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On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens.
i think Blizzard wants to strengthen the entire Starcraft franchise. There are certain people under 30 who just won't give Brood War a try because of the graphics. All my Red-Alert-3/C&C-3 friends won't give Brood War a try 2 seconds after they see what it looks like. They take 1 look at SC2 and they think its worth giving a shot. Likewise, there are certain SC1 people who won't give SC2 a try.
i think Blizzard is giving an existing customer base more reasons to spend more money. Your most reliable new revenue comes from your current customers. Marketing to non-customers is brutally expensive.
i don't think Blizzard's aim is to cannibalize any of its current customer base to create new revenue.
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Baa?21248 Posts
On March 20 2017 15:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. i think Blizzard wants to strengthen the entire Starcraft franchise. There are certain people under 30 who just won't give Brood War a try because of the graphics. All my Red-Alert-3/C&C-3 friends won't give Brood War a try 2 seconds after they see what it looks like. They take 1 look at SC2 and they think its worth giving a shot. Likewise, there are certain SC1 people who won't give SC2 a try. i think Blizzard is giving an existing customer base more reasons to spend more money. Your most reliable new revenue comes from your current customers. Marketing to non-customers is brutally expensive. i don't think Blizzard's aim is to cannibalize any of its current customer base to create new revenue.
I agree with "Blizzard wants to strengthen the entire Starcraft franchise."
I disagree, however, with the idea that this means converting people to BW, or that Blizzard is not looking to cannibalize its current customer base.
For Blizzard, strenghtening the Starcraft franchise is more or less equivalent with monetizing Starcraft 2, and from Starcraft 2, feed people into HotS, and also the rest of B.net. (I guess it's called Blizzard Tech or whatever now lol)
BW is very much outside of Blizzard's current monetization framework and there's no real incentive for them to convert anyone from SC2/anything else into BW.
I agree with the idea that Blizzard wants to give existing customers more reasons to spend more money, except "existing customers" in this case are not really "customers" per se, just legacy fans from BW era. I don't think Blizzard is particularly interested in sponsoring BW in a major way, other than as a way to get people to watch some more SC2 and hopefully get on Bnet.
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On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens.
idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play.
There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW.
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Canada5565 Posts
On March 18 2017 13:48 Scrutinizer wrote:
Go JaeDong.
my money is on a BW HD announcement too. Most important thing here is that it HAS TO BE "2D" PLEASE!
Agreed.
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I also would like them to try to change as little of the gameplay as possible and just slap on a ladder.
How likely that is can be a bit up in the air.
Gogo STORRKUUUU though.
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On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW.
I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene.
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On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene.
Yeah, but I think a lot of those are going to be spoiled and or annoyed by stuff like the pathing and unit selection limits. from their perspective, that stuff is "fighting the UI" and not actually the game.
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On March 21 2017 00:55 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene. Yeah, but I think a lot of those are going to be spoiled and or annoyed by stuff like the pathing and unit selection limits. from their perspective, that stuff is "fighting the UI" and not actually the game.
I don't think it'll be practical to please that audience without significantly changing the game anyways. I do think it'll still be good to engage new players who are more open-minded or re-engage old players who've drifted away from the game.
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On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene.
I think something (positive) has to be said about the foreign BW community in this regard. With initiatives like CPL, Rookie Tour, STPL, DRTL/DRIT, Small D's, the community despite its alleged elitism and toxicity is very welcoming to noobs through these organizations. It gives casual players a place to play and engage in the community that ladder and matchmaking doesn't provide. Hopefully there will be clan support on whatever server Blizzard provides because back in the days of sGs and other noob - friendly clans this was a big boon for those first venturing into this game.
Not to detract from your point - I agree that back in the day, FFA, Blizz maps, RW, BGH, even cancer like Fastest and Zero Clutter generated a lot of the community and fun factor in BW. I'm just trying to say that the TL-centered BW community has established a lot of fantastic community-oriented projects and these will help people assimilate in BW:HD into even the 1v1 competitive scene.
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On March 21 2017 00:55 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene. Yeah, but I think a lot of those are going to be spoiled and or annoyed by stuff like the pathing and unit selection limits. from their perspective, that stuff is "fighting the UI" and not actually the game.
I am an older player, my first RTS was Dune 2. I love SC1 and BW but I also consider UI limitations of BW as fighting the UI. I think BW was a great and fun game because of how combat and races and their units were designed, not because of its UI limits.
UI limits do make it a harder game to master and that is important for pro players, but average player that just wants to have fun would benefit from removing those limitations while having access to base game and its fun unit/ability interactions.
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On March 21 2017 06:24 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 00:55 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene. Yeah, but I think a lot of those are going to be spoiled and or annoyed by stuff like the pathing and unit selection limits. from their perspective, that stuff is "fighting the UI" and not actually the game. I am an older player, my first RTS was Dune 2. I love SC1 and BW but I also consider UI limitations of BW as fighting the UI. I think BW was a great and fun game because of how combat and races and their units were designed, not because of its UI limits. UI limits do make it a harder game to master and that is important for pro players, but average player that just wants to have fun would benefit from removing those limitations while having access to base game and its fun unit/ability interactions.
Ultimately while I think you can have fun with changes, that would ruin and tarnish the game's balance and design at the competitive level.
You could throw all the bw units into a custom map in sc2 with all the modern conveniences that would bring and having fun and dicking around with that, but that wouldnt be good enough to keep people competitively interested.
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TLADT24920 Posts
I wish people would stop saying UI limitations. The unit selection limit was intentional. Sure, pathing somewhat was (the way the code was written at least) but those two things are some of the most important parts of BW and along with defender's advantage and the cool/OP units make the game what it is. If the unit selection limit, pathing, defender's advantage and the units themselves are in any way, shape or form changed, BW is no longer BW.
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On March 21 2017 06:31 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 06:24 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 00:55 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene. Yeah, but I think a lot of those are going to be spoiled and or annoyed by stuff like the pathing and unit selection limits. from their perspective, that stuff is "fighting the UI" and not actually the game. I am an older player, my first RTS was Dune 2. I love SC1 and BW but I also consider UI limitations of BW as fighting the UI. I think BW was a great and fun game because of how combat and races and their units were designed, not because of its UI limits. UI limits do make it a harder game to master and that is important for pro players, but average player that just wants to have fun would benefit from removing those limitations while having access to base game and its fun unit/ability interactions. Ultimately while I think you can have fun with changes, that would ruin and tarnish the game's balance and design at the competitive level. You could throw all the bw units into a custom map in sc2 with all the modern conveniences that would bring and having fun and dicking around with that, but that wouldnt be good enough to keep people competitively interested.
No you cannot because sc2 arcade does not have any kind of matchmaking. And the change is not only higher resolution and removal of UI limitations.
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On March 21 2017 07:15 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 06:31 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 06:24 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 00:55 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene. Yeah, but I think a lot of those are going to be spoiled and or annoyed by stuff like the pathing and unit selection limits. from their perspective, that stuff is "fighting the UI" and not actually the game. I am an older player, my first RTS was Dune 2. I love SC1 and BW but I also consider UI limitations of BW as fighting the UI. I think BW was a great and fun game because of how combat and races and their units were designed, not because of its UI limits. UI limits do make it a harder game to master and that is important for pro players, but average player that just wants to have fun would benefit from removing those limitations while having access to base game and its fun unit/ability interactions. Ultimately while I think you can have fun with changes, that would ruin and tarnish the game's balance and design at the competitive level. You could throw all the bw units into a custom map in sc2 with all the modern conveniences that would bring and having fun and dicking around with that, but that wouldnt be good enough to keep people competitively interested. No you cannot because sc2 arcade does not have any kind of matchmaking. And the change is not only higher resolution and removal of UI limitations.
You said you would just want to have fun. That would be suffice for most of what you said you wanted. or no?
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On March 21 2017 07:20 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 07:15 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 06:31 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 06:24 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 00:55 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene. Yeah, but I think a lot of those are going to be spoiled and or annoyed by stuff like the pathing and unit selection limits. from their perspective, that stuff is "fighting the UI" and not actually the game. I am an older player, my first RTS was Dune 2. I love SC1 and BW but I also consider UI limitations of BW as fighting the UI. I think BW was a great and fun game because of how combat and races and their units were designed, not because of its UI limits. UI limits do make it a harder game to master and that is important for pro players, but average player that just wants to have fun would benefit from removing those limitations while having access to base game and its fun unit/ability interactions. Ultimately while I think you can have fun with changes, that would ruin and tarnish the game's balance and design at the competitive level. You could throw all the bw units into a custom map in sc2 with all the modern conveniences that would bring and having fun and dicking around with that, but that wouldnt be good enough to keep people competitively interested. No you cannot because sc2 arcade does not have any kind of matchmaking. And the change is not only higher resolution and removal of UI limitations. You said you would just want to have fun. That would be suffice for most of what you said you wanted. or no?
Fun does not mean I don't want matchmaking and equal level opposition. Or being able to 2v2 with a friend and we get similar level opponents. Fun is having a match vs similar skill opponents while not feeling like I am fighting the UI
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