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On March 21 2017 07:54 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 07:20 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 07:15 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 06:31 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 06:24 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 00:55 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already. I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene. Yeah, but I think a lot of those are going to be spoiled and or annoyed by stuff like the pathing and unit selection limits. from their perspective, that stuff is "fighting the UI" and not actually the game. I am an older player, my first RTS was Dune 2. I love SC1 and BW but I also consider UI limitations of BW as fighting the UI. I think BW was a great and fun game because of how combat and races and their units were designed, not because of its UI limits. UI limits do make it a harder game to master and that is important for pro players, but average player that just wants to have fun would benefit from removing those limitations while having access to base game and its fun unit/ability interactions. Ultimately while I think you can have fun with changes, that would ruin and tarnish the game's balance and design at the competitive level. You could throw all the bw units into a custom map in sc2 with all the modern conveniences that would bring and having fun and dicking around with that, but that wouldnt be good enough to keep people competitively interested. No you cannot because sc2 arcade does not have any kind of matchmaking. And the change is not only higher resolution and removal of UI limitations. You said you would just want to have fun. That would be suffice for most of what you said you wanted. or no? Fun does not mean I don't want matchmaking and equal level opposition. Or being able to 2v2 with a friend and we get similar level opponents. Fun is having a match vs similar skill opponents while not feeling like I am fighting the UI
That pretty much means that people who are new to BW can't have fun, by your definition, which is clearly not true. Just because YOU can't have fun without everything moving like an ice skater doesn't mean that we should change the core of the game to appease you. The difficulties in overcoming pathing is one of the first things people get accustomed to when learning how to play. If that hill is too steep for you to climb, then perhaps you weren't cut out for competitive gaming which has many more hills along the way.
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On March 18 2017 11:02 BigFan wrote:
Interesting but the timing is terrible for EST! lol
According to the announcement in ATB final，the schedule is:
3.26 Sunday
Part.1 The Legend
19th year celebration
TBLS Match
14:00-17:30 KDT
Part.2 GSL Final
19:00-22:00 KDT
I wish Bisu and Stork would qualify through ASL 3 Prel Seoul on 3/25, coz they can not go to Pusan for the 2nd chance on 3/26, since they'll attend show match in Seoul.
Flash and Jaedong are happy, coz they're final four of ASL 2.
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On March 21 2017 09:04 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 07:54 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 07:20 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 07:15 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 06:31 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 06:24 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 00:55 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:On March 20 2017 13:39 eviltomahawk wrote:
[quote]
I think they're doing the opposite if they're getting Tastosis to commentate BW matches, and a BW:HD would likely convert people the other way when it happens. idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play. There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene. Yeah, but I think a lot of those are going to be spoiled and or annoyed by stuff like the pathing and unit selection limits. from their perspective, that stuff is "fighting the UI" and not actually the game. I am an older player, my first RTS was Dune 2. I love SC1 and BW but I also consider UI limitations of BW as fighting the UI. I think BW was a great and fun game because of how combat and races and their units were designed, not because of its UI limits. UI limits do make it a harder game to master and that is important for pro players, but average player that just wants to have fun would benefit from removing those limitations while having access to base game and its fun unit/ability interactions. Ultimately while I think you can have fun with changes, that would ruin and tarnish the game's balance and design at the competitive level. You could throw all the bw units into a custom map in sc2 with all the modern conveniences that would bring and having fun and dicking around with that, but that wouldnt be good enough to keep people competitively interested. No you cannot because sc2 arcade does not have any kind of matchmaking. And the change is not only higher resolution and removal of UI limitations. You said you would just want to have fun. That would be suffice for most of what you said you wanted. or no? Fun does not mean I don't want matchmaking and equal level opposition. Or being able to 2v2 with a friend and we get similar level opponents. Fun is having a match vs similar skill opponents while not feeling like I am fighting the UI That pretty much means that people who are new to BW can't have fun, by your definition, which is clearly not true. Just because YOU can't have fun without everything moving like an ice skater doesn't mean that we should change the core of the game to appease you. The difficulties in overcoming pathing is one of the first things people get accustomed to when learning how to play. If that hill is too steep for you to climb, then perhaps you weren't cut out for competitive gaming which has many more hills along the way.
Competitive gaming? Do you read yourself at all? Who is talking about competitive gaming here?!
All you bunch are thinking about continue to watch same game played by same korean pros. I am thinking about having more fun playing a Starcraft game that has a bit modernized UI since I never found SC2 gameplay to be very good but I cannot go back to playing a game using that archaic UI.
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On March 21 2017 17:32 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 09:04 Jealous wrote:On March 21 2017 07:54 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 07:20 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 07:15 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 06:31 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 06:24 -Archangel- wrote:On March 21 2017 00:55 lestye wrote:On March 21 2017 00:45 eviltomahawk wrote:On March 20 2017 16:06 lestye wrote:
[quote]
idk we'll see. Ultimately BW isnt for everybody, I hope everyone at least enjoys and appreciates the game from a viewer perspective, because the game is very demanding and challenging, just to play.
There's also a lot of other factors involved, like, will they support a foreign scene ? If not, then odds are most people will stick to playing SC2 and maybe watching BW. I think there are some parts of BW that are more accessible than other parts. A 1v1 ladder will never have staying power with a casual audience no matter how good the matchmaking is, and we kinda saw that in SC2. Anecdotally, some of the most fun that I've had in BW was just messing around in a team game, FFA, or comp stomp with friends, usually in a LAN setting. Getting players to understand the game in these casual settings is an important first step in introducing and better engaging them as viewers, and I think increasing the viewership is still an adequate win since it could reinvigorate the esports scene. Yeah, but I think a lot of those are going to be spoiled and or annoyed by stuff like the pathing and unit selection limits. from their perspective, that stuff is "fighting the UI" and not actually the game. I am an older player, my first RTS was Dune 2. I love SC1 and BW but I also consider UI limitations of BW as fighting the UI. I think BW was a great and fun game because of how combat and races and their units were designed, not because of its UI limits. UI limits do make it a harder game to master and that is important for pro players, but average player that just wants to have fun would benefit from removing those limitations while having access to base game and its fun unit/ability interactions. Ultimately while I think you can have fun with changes, that would ruin and tarnish the game's balance and design at the competitive level. You could throw all the bw units into a custom map in sc2 with all the modern conveniences that would bring and having fun and dicking around with that, but that wouldnt be good enough to keep people competitively interested. No you cannot because sc2 arcade does not have any kind of matchmaking. And the change is not only higher resolution and removal of UI limitations. You said you would just want to have fun. That would be suffice for most of what you said you wanted. or no? Fun does not mean I don't want matchmaking and equal level opposition. Or being able to 2v2 with a friend and we get similar level opponents. Fun is having a match vs similar skill opponents while not feeling like I am fighting the UI That pretty much means that people who are new to BW can't have fun, by your definition, which is clearly not true. Just because YOU can't have fun without everything moving like an ice skater doesn't mean that we should change the core of the game to appease you. The difficulties in overcoming pathing is one of the first things people get accustomed to when learning how to play. If that hill is too steep for you to climb, then perhaps you weren't cut out for competitive gaming which has many more hills along the way. Competitive gaming? Do you read yourself at all? Who is talking about competitive gaming here?! All you bunch are thinking about continue to watch same game played by same korean pros. I am thinking about having more fun playing a Starcraft game that has a bit modernized UI since I never found SC2 gameplay to be very good but I cannot go back to playing a game using that archaic UI.
I'd rather have Korean pros playing this game than have to deal with your whine, 8 days a week, 25 hours a day.
EDIT: Try SC2:BW or StarBow.
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What is the big deal everyone has with the BW UI? If you just play UMS maps with your friends for fun the UI doesn't matter and if you're playing 1v1/teamgames with your equally nooby friends it also doesn't matter since everyone has the same tools to work with and can just enjoy the game at their own pace. The game is only as popular and successful as it is because literally anybody can pick it up for the first time and have a blast. You don't need to have the skill of Flash to win games and have fun.
I do think they should include a toggle for unlimited selection and whatnot in custom games though.
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On March 21 2017 18:39 ZeroChrome wrote:
What is the big deal everyone has with the BW UI? If you just play UMS maps with your friends for fun, the UI doesn't matter and if you're playing 1v1/teamgames with your equally nooby friends it also doesn't matter since everyone has the same tools to work with and can just enjoy the game at their own pace. The game is only as popular and successful as it is because literally anybody can pick it up for the first time and have a blast. You don't need to have the skill of Flash to win games and have fun.
I do think they should include a toggle for unlimited selection and whatnot in custom games though.
The problem is that because SC2 was marketed as the successor of the wildly competitive BW, people had to log on and feel like they are somewhere on the path to being pro. The original Bnet2 did not help alleviate this misconception. Thus, many people you see posting have the opinion that they want to start BW HD being able to macro like Best, storm like Jangbi, and make it look easy while doing so. To make this a reality, all of the skill checks prior to these phenomena must be removed so that BronzeBoy18784 can feel like he's right up there with the best when he picks up the new version of one of the most demanding games of all time. Nevermind the 20 years that noobs have come and loved this game and a few of which decided to pursue it further. This is a new breed of gamer.
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Amazing. This starts in 6:00AM in Central Europe right?
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Nevermind, i figured it out myself. Why are people not banned for giving PDT instead of CET? This is an european site.
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On March 21 2017 20:58 geissenberg wrote:
Nevermind, i figured it out myself. Why are people not banned for giving PDT instead of CET? This is an european site.
Because OP just quoted the original bnet article.
And look, you figured it out like a big boy, you're capable of more than you give yourself credit for!
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On March 21 2017 11:55 sc19980331 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2017 11:02 BigFan wrote:
Interesting but the timing is terrible for EST! lol According to the announcement in ATB final，the schedule is: 3.26 Sunday Part.1 The Legend 19th year celebration TBLS Match 14:00-17:30 KDT Part.2 GSL Final 19:00-22:00 KDT I wish Bisu and Stork would qualify through ASL 3 Prel Seoul on 3/25, coz they can not go to Pusan for the 2nd chance on 3/26, since they'll attend show match in Seoul. Flash and Jaedong are happy, coz they're final four of ASL 2.
They moved qualifiers for ASL3 to the first weekend of April.
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United Kingdom1691 Posts
People arguing against the view of current BW players so often seem to straw man our reasons for not wanting interference. There genuinely seems to be almost no way to conduct a reasonable conversation on the subject.
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On March 20 2017 12:48 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Main problem is Blizzard still seems to think there's a chance to convert a significant number of viewers from BW to SC2, which means they're quite out of touch with reality. Everyone who would've converted to SC2 has largely done so already.
For me there is not doubt about this, they dont want to invest on BW per se, but for being a marketer for SC2, and other present and future games like OW, the Korean gamers are a big portion of Blizz success worldwide, so they are interested in turning some remaining eyes from BW to other games.
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On March 21 2017 23:12 ImbaTosS wrote:
People arguing against the view of current BW players so often seem to straw man our reasons for not wanting interference. There genuinely seems to be almost no way to conduct a reasonable conversation on the subject.
You should thank the vocal part of the current western bw community for being the way it is. It is hard to have a reasonable conversation when you basically get attacked for any pov which isn't "bw is perfect" (i guess that's the straw man)
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On March 22 2017 01:14 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2017 23:12 ImbaTosS wrote:
People arguing against the view of current BW players so often seem to straw man our reasons for not wanting interference. There genuinely seems to be almost no way to conduct a reasonable conversation on the subject. You should thank the vocal part of the current western bw community for being the way it is. It is hard to have a reasonable conversation when you basically get attacked for any pov which isn't "bw is perfect" (i guess that's the straw man)
I don't know if it's a strawman or not, but your argument against NickHotS' stance can be boiled down to "I can't even."
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I will say it again, i quoted nickhots but my stance was against the overall sentiment which was stated by more than just him.
I still stand by it though, if you actually argue if custom hotkeys are a change which is ok, if you go that far then there really is no common ground for disucssion. Because at that point you won't agree with anything ever
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I really really hope this is a new beginning! I have enjoyed both games, but the nostalgia from bw is just... priceless for me, I feel this game has a lot to do with who I am today.
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maybe mike will discuss the Google AI project.
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On March 22 2017 03:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
maybe mike will discuss the Google AI project.
Hopefully, they're ready to release the API.
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On March 22 2017 03:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
maybe mike will discuss the Google AI project.
Now that would be exciting, I hadn't thought of that.. Fingers crossed!
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EPT
