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On March 11 2017 10:40 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2017 06:26 Fatam wrote:On March 11 2017 04:32 Jealous wrote:On March 10 2017 20:37 Elentos wrote:On March 10 2017 20:36 Plexa wrote:I was pulling for Sequencer  definitely showed the most promising games from the test tournament. Hope it still makes it to the ladder! Congrats to Avex and the other winners  Hope so too, Sequencer has great potential. Not surprising since it's a Korean map port lol. Errrr I don't think that's correct. We'll need to get negativezero in here to clarify, but as far as I know the map originated from his "bitty dot syndrome" map that he made for a map jam a long time ago, and this was the LotV-ized and flushed-out form of that concept. you're both right, the map jam concept was originally inspired by geometry (although obviously it's quite a bit different)
yeah, i mean honestly that's soo different that I wouldn't call it a remake.
Now what you guys need to finally figure out is how to make three player maps.
It's not like we don't know how to make them - we've had a few decent ones in SC2 and honestly they're not that hard to make.. it's a lot like making a 4p just it ends up having more airspace and takes more time to get the symmetry close to 100% right. Really it's just that there isn't much reason/demand to do them so most mappers don't bother.
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On March 11 2017 11:48 Fatam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2017 10:40 -NegativeZero- wrote:On March 11 2017 06:26 Fatam wrote:On March 11 2017 04:32 Jealous wrote:On March 10 2017 20:37 Elentos wrote:On March 10 2017 20:36 Plexa wrote:I was pulling for Sequencer definitely showed the most promising games from the test tournament. Hope it still makes it to the ladder! Congrats to Avex and the other winners Hope so too, Sequencer has great potential. Not surprising since it's a Korean map port lol. Errrr I don't think that's correct. We'll need to get negativezero in here to clarify, but as far as I know the map originated from his "bitty dot syndrome" map that he made for a map jam a long time ago, and this was the LotV-ized and flushed-out form of that concept. you're both right, the map jam concept was originally inspired by geometry (although obviously it's quite a bit different) yeah, i mean honestly that's soo different that I wouldn't call it a remake. Show nested quote +Now what you guys need to finally figure out is how to make three player maps. It's not like we don't know how to make them - we've had a few decent ones in SC2 and honestly they're not that hard to make.. it's a lot like making a 4p just it ends up having more airspace and takes more time to get the symmetry close to 100% right. Really it's just that there isn't much reason/demand to do them so most mappers don't bother.
It's mostly ramps that are a pain in 3p maps.
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On March 11 2017 10:40 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2017 06:26 Fatam wrote:On March 11 2017 04:32 Jealous wrote:On March 10 2017 20:37 Elentos wrote:On March 10 2017 20:36 Plexa wrote:I was pulling for Sequencer definitely showed the most promising games from the test tournament. Hope it still makes it to the ladder! Congrats to Avex and the other winners Hope so too, Sequencer has great potential. Not surprising since it's a Korean map port lol. Errrr I don't think that's correct. We'll need to get negativezero in here to clarify, but as far as I know the map originated from his "bitty dot syndrome" map that he made for a map jam a long time ago, and this was the LotV-ized and flushed-out form of that concept. you're both right, the map jam concept was originally inspired by geometry (although obviously it's quite a bit different)
Yea, my apologies; when I saw your map, I was like "Jeez that's exactly the same as Geometry," but now that you've linked it, I see that they are vastly different. Something something getting old something something memory tricks etc.
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Windwaker bugs have been fixed. Both Windwaker and Hwangsan now do not permit building or burrowed unit/movement in water.
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On March 11 2017 12:56 Avexyli wrote:
Windwaker bugs have been fixed. Both Windwaker and Hwangsan now do not permit building or burrowed unit/movement in water.
Why? I don't really see a gameplay reason for it. On Windwaker I doubt it'll matter often except as an occasional nasty gotcha for zerg players, and on Hwangsan it'll just piss off zerg players in ZvP.
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Why ppl so much liked Sequencer I don't get it... Because of it Acolyte got robbed to 6th place.
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On March 11 2017 19:36 outscar wrote:
Why ppl so much liked Sequencer I don't get it... Because of it Acolyte got robbed to 6th place.
Because Sequencer has great depth to it in the late game. It also has a rather unique look and produced some very fun games in the Basetrade Map tournament.
I would say I don't get why people like Acolyte so much that it got 6th place, but people loved Dusk Towers so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
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Paradise Lost is a bad map. Sad seeing people blindly voting this map
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On March 11 2017 19:51 IceTea_Sc2 wrote:Paradise Lost is a bad map. Sad seeing people blindly voting this map
Instant veto for me, I hate air wars.
But hopefully Blizzard will be smart.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
Sad that Geumgangsan was ignored by most people. It has so beautiful tileset...
Same for Blood Boil.
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shoutout to Sidian and Avex for making always awesome aesthetics.
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I think maps that have potential to 'be bad' also contain a chance of finding something new for strategies. That's the reason I voted for Paradise lost. If it doesn't, fine, veto it and have something else to replace it next season.
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congratulations to the winners and thanks to the organisers for doing this and everyone else for participating!!!
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I interviewed Avex about the motivation behind mapmaking and why mapmakers still put in the time (it was off the cuff): Interview Link
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relatively happy with the results, though Paradise Lost and Windwaker kinda look out of place in that ranking to me. Paradise Lost has a lot of issues due to how easy you'll secure a heavy economy with defensive plays and the intricated resources repartition on Windwaker really makes me feel uneasy.
Otherwise Sequencer, Ascension to Aiur and Hwangsan are all imo promising maps I'd be happy to see on ladder.
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Are those 3 bases in the top left and the bottom right on Paradise Lost island expansions?
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On March 11 2017 19:45 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2017 19:36 outscar wrote:
Why ppl so much liked Sequencer I don't get it... Because of it Acolyte got robbed to 6th place. Because Sequencer has great depth to it in the late game. It also has a rather unique look and produced some very fun games in the Basetrade Map tournament. I would say I don't get why people like Acolyte so much that it got 6th place, but people loved Dusk Towers so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
I think the pathing on Acolyte is a lot more interesting and far less turtley than Dusk Towers (for the unaware, the mapmaker took Overgrowth and then edited the map off that (adding the in-base nat and other things), and then AVEX reskinned it for him). But I do think people are tired of in-base nats in general. So maybe in that regard it's fair to lump it in with Dusk Towers.
On March 11 2017 22:18 Koivusto wrote:
I think maps that have potential to 'be bad' also contain a chance of finding something new for strategies. That's the reason I voted for Paradise lost. If it doesn't, fine, veto it and have something else to replace it next season.
Sort of agree, but at the same time you can use that argument for pretty much every terrible map ever made.
On March 12 2017 03:46 TeaWhy wrote:
Are those 3 bases in the top left and the bottom right on Paradise Lost island expansions?
Yes.
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Grats to the winners, espeically Avex, who I really like since he's been actively talking about the mapmaking on TL, reddit, twitter etc.
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I really like the 4th one because of its creative factor. But maybe the first three is more suitable to use in league. If they have more creative factor, it will be more funny.
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On March 11 2017 05:52 Uvantak wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2017 22:37 fezvez wrote:
Why isn't there already some armchair pro mapmaker stating all the reasons why these maps are terrible, the community is beyond retarded voting for these maps and flaming everyone around?
You disappoint me, TL community, did you forget to be elitists? That is because couple TLMC's ago we changed the voting system from first past the post to multiple option voting, that has severely increased the overall quality of the final vote, we don't really see maps cannibalizing each other votes anymore, which is always good, tho that sadly means that it leads to people clearly and pretty much always voting for the beachy-standard maps over other more quality submissions. There also are problems with 1st stage judges and such, but those are things that we are trying to get fixed. Anyhow, congrats Avex!
The previous FPTP system had problems that lead to the maps that stood out one way or another from the rest of the pack to win (in some cases to unfortunate effects with maps like Biome or New Polaris Rhapsody winning). Paradise Lost would have won under the previous system. This system has the opposite effect and favors maps that don't offend too many people's sensibilities. For example Ascension to Aiur is a map that I think few people would put as the best map, but many would put as the fourth or fifth best map.
While this system is better than the previous one there's still room for improvement. Though no public voting system can get rid of the public's love for beachy maps.
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EPT
