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On March 13 2017 12:48 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2017 05:52 Uvantak wrote:On March 10 2017 22:37 fezvez wrote:
Why isn't there already some armchair pro mapmaker stating all the reasons why these maps are terrible, the community is beyond retarded voting for these maps and flaming everyone around?
You disappoint me, TL community, did you forget to be elitists? That is because couple TLMC's ago we changed the voting system from first past the post to multiple option voting, that has severely increased the overall quality of the final vote, we don't really see maps cannibalizing each other votes anymore, which is always good, tho that sadly means that it leads to people clearly and pretty much always voting for the beachy-standard maps over other more quality submissions. There also are problems with 1st stage judges and such, but those are things that we are trying to get fixed. Anyhow, congrats Avex! The previous FPTP system had problems that lead to the maps that stood out one way or another from the rest of the pack to win (in some cases to unfortunate effects with maps like Biome or New Polaris Rhapsody winning). Paradise Lost would have won under the previous system. This system has the opposite effect and favors maps that don't offend too many people's sensibilities. For example Ascension to Aiur is a map that I think few people would put as the best map, but many would put as the fourth or fifth best map. While this system is better than the previous one there's still room for improvement. Though no public voting system can get rid of the public's love for beachy maps.
Yeah I think both systems definitely have their flaws. Before you got just maps that stand out as you said, but may not necessarily be the best maps. Nowadays, you always get the safe turtley inoffensive maps as the top picks.
Not really sure how to do better, other than probably get rid of public voting.. yet there is a certain element of fun in getting people involved, even if it's flawed.
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On March 13 2017 14:35 Fatam wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2017 12:48 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On March 11 2017 05:52 Uvantak wrote:On March 10 2017 22:37 fezvez wrote:
Why isn't there already some armchair pro mapmaker stating all the reasons why these maps are terrible, the community is beyond retarded voting for these maps and flaming everyone around?
You disappoint me, TL community, did you forget to be elitists? That is because couple TLMC's ago we changed the voting system from first past the post to multiple option voting, that has severely increased the overall quality of the final vote, we don't really see maps cannibalizing each other votes anymore, which is always good, tho that sadly means that it leads to people clearly and pretty much always voting for the beachy-standard maps over other more quality submissions. There also are problems with 1st stage judges and such, but those are things that we are trying to get fixed. Anyhow, congrats Avex! The previous FPTP system had problems that lead to the maps that stood out one way or another from the rest of the pack to win (in some cases to unfortunate effects with maps like Biome or New Polaris Rhapsody winning). Paradise Lost would have won under the previous system. This system has the opposite effect and favors maps that don't offend too many people's sensibilities. For example Ascension to Aiur is a map that I think few people would put as the best map, but many would put as the fourth or fifth best map. While this system is better than the previous one there's still room for improvement. Though no public voting system can get rid of the public's love for beachy maps. Yeah I think both systems definitely have their flaws. Before you got just maps that stand out as you said, but may not necessarily be the best maps. Nowadays, you always get the safe turtley inoffensive maps as the top picks. Not really sure how to do better, other than probably get rid of public voting.. yet there is a certain element of fun in getting people involved, even if it's flawed.
While public voting doesn't usually reward the best maps, it is absolutely necessary since it's the best way to encourage players to get involved with the TLMC process. Participation isn't that high as is. And besides relying entirely on the judges can also cause problems and might bias the results towards certain types of maps (like in TLMC6 where basically every finalist had a backdoor).
I think some sort of ranked voting system would give better results (such as an instant-runoff system). Though I'm pretty sure people have suggested that during previous TLMCs, and that I've had this conversation before.
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For the next ladder season I think Abyssal and Honorgrounds could be retained.
The new maps could include a choice of 4-5 of these: Ascension to Aiur, Acolyte, Asteroid Barricade, Sequencer, Windwaker.
For the 1 rush map: They should either retain Paladino or add in Hunger Game (but absolutely no neutral force field).
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Hunger Game is just another version of Dasan Station, I don't think you'd see favorable reception if it was added.
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On March 13 2017 23:01 paralleluniverse wrote:
For the next ladder season I think Abyssal and Honorgrounds could be retained.
The new maps could include a choice of 4-5 of these: Ascension to Aiur, Acolyte, Asteroid Barricade, Sequencer, Windwaker.
For the 1 rush map: They should either retain Paladino or add in Hunger Game (but absolutely no neutral force field).
While I wouldn't complain too much about those maps individually, I don't think all together they'd make a good map pool. All of them are very big for one. It isn't a problem to have a few big maps, but a map pool needs middle-of-the-road sized maps too (and by middle-of-the-road I mean maps sized similarly to Hwangsan or Echo, not rush maps). The categories that Blizzard gave for the past two TLMCs have done a lot to cut down on mid-sized maps unfortunately.
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Avex makes beautiful maps
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EPT
