• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:12
CEST 12:12
KST 19:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 - RO4 & Finals Results (2025)8Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week0Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 - RO4 & Finals Results (2025) Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Rain's Behind the Scenes Storytime Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SOOP Starcraft Global #22 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 31956 users

SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband - Pag…

Forum Index > SC2 General
1381 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 55 56 57 58 59 70 Next
Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
October 20 2016 00:15 GMT
#1121
On October 20 2016 08:22 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 08:12 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 07:57 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 07:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:


With eSports, people that don't play call you a nerd

Huh? this isn't 2008 anymore.


Go to a bar, tell the girl your hitting on that your hobby is playing video games for 4-8 hour stretches. Ask her if that turns her on. If the girl liked video games, sure. But what about the girls that don't care about games?

Girls that don't care about soccer will appreciate that you run. That you work out.
Girls that don't care about video games will not appreciate your hotkey setup or your expansion timings.

maybe it's not the best thing to say to pick up girls but when talking to male people they are usually very interested when I say I'm playing starcraft. I don't think I know a single male person around my age that doesn't play video games, it's completely normal nowadays.


But is the fact that you play video games something you use as a signifier of pride?

The normal player already knows that he won't be the top player. Going to forums gets him labeled as a noob since he's not a top player. So the only thing left to gain value from the game is social boons. You don't gain social value in society because you practice queen injects for 30 minutes a day.

unless you're a pro, I always thought it was extremely silly when people actually practiced injects or BOs for hours a day just so that they can increase their rank. Think about your game plan (consider a fun strat too if you can manage) and just play the game. Nothing more, nothing less is needed.

One good point Charoisaur makes is that people who know anything about games are impressed even if you just mention starcraft casually lol.

Personally, I think SCII failed due to many reasons. One of the things that personally made me mad was back when the queen buff was done, the community cried for months for a change, a patch, something! I had switched to terran back in WoL, season 3 and even though I liked TvZ, I considered winning late game to be impossible. I always felt like I was on a timer to try and hit before infestors to do some damage because once the zerg got out 7-8 infestors (couple were enough really but I had problems splitting mnm lol), it was rough to win. Like, it still boggles the mind that no patches came during the lings of liberty period when it was obvious that something needed to be done! I could go on and on because like many others, SCII occupied a special place in my heart (so did BW but that's a story for another time) when it first released but slowly became frustrating to play and boring to watch even after HoTS release. w/e.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
October 20 2016 00:22 GMT
#1122
On October 20 2016 08:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 07:57 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 07:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:


With eSports, people that don't play call you a nerd

Huh? this isn't 2008 anymore.


Go to a bar, tell the girl your hitting on that your hobby is playing video games for 4-8 hour stretches. Ask her if that turns her on. If the girl liked video games, sure. But what about the girls that don't care about games?

Girls that don't care about soccer will appreciate that you run. That you work out.
Girls that don't care about video games will not appreciate your hotkey setup or your expansion timings.


Why make it seem like the opinion of a girl you're hitting on in a bar determines much of anything? It seems like a really weird metric that you're really bending out of shape to use. How about random people in the subway? That seems like a more productive way to find out what people think than your random bar girl's sexual interests.
AdministratorBreak the chains
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 20 2016 00:38 GMT
#1123
On October 20 2016 09:13 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 09:04 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:56 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:37 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:22 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:12 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:
[quote]

Go to a bar, tell the girl your hitting on that your hobby is playing video games for 4-8 hour stretches. Ask her if that turns her on. If the girl liked video games, sure. But what about the girls that don't care about games?

Girls that don't care about soccer will appreciate that you run. That you work out.
Girls that don't care about video games will not appreciate your hotkey setup or your expansion timings.

maybe it's not the best thing to say to pick up girls but when talking to male people they are usually very interested when I say I'm playing starcraft. I don't think I know a single male person around my age that doesn't play video games, it's completely normal nowadays.


But is the fact that you play video games something you use as a signifier of pride?

The normal player already knows that he won't be the top player. Going to forums gets him labeled as a noob since he's not a top player. So the only thing left to gain value from the game is social boons. You don't gain social value in society because you practice queen injects for 30 minutes a day.

not sure what you mean with social value in society. when I tell someone I'm around the top 1% of players in sc2 they're usually quite impressed. most people i know play competitive games too like CS, Lol or Dota and can appreciate achieving a high rank.


Since you didn't read what I said, let me attach it here:

The issue with eSports is that when people realized that 99% of the player base was shit and that they were part of that 99% then they stopped caring about playing the game because why be competitive in a sport where you are guaranteed to never do well and you don't get the prestige from trying.


Congrats on being the 1%

Anyone can get to master/high master if they want to and practice enough.


Only a % of people get there. By definition.

Anyway doesn't matter. I don't play starcraft to impress my friends but because it's my hobby.
My point was that a ton of people play (competitive) games nowadays and it's nothing weird to do anymore.
I can speak to other people about my hobby without any problem (at least to males) and they won't find it weird at all.
Being a nerd because you play video games is outdated.


You don't bring it up as a bonus point at work, to your boss, to potential clients. Its not what you use to close a deal, like talking about football does. You don't do it to bond with someone you dislike but have to talk to, like you can with the world cup or the olympics. Its something you can talk to with others who are also doing similar said thing.

no but why would you? there are enough other things you can talk about with those interests in mind unless gaming is the only thing you're interested in. I don't think anyone is doing a hobby for the purpose of impressing his boss.


The goal isn't to impress your boss? But conversations always comes up.

"Looking tired, you okay?"
"Went back to playing rugby, body not as young as it used to be"
"Good for you though, keep up the good work"

vs

"Looking tired today"
"Been practicing last hits for on League for about 4-5 hours each night, pretty tiring"
"Why don't you turn the game off sooner?"
"Because, fundamentals are important?"

etc...

Comes up a lot in sales also as a way to bond and make connections with strangers be it international or US customers.

Also comes up a lot in leadership meetings or team meetings.

Like, you'll hear:

"Back when I was playing foot ball in highschool/college, we really learned a lot about _____, and that is why we need to do _____ "

But you won't hear:

"If you want to up your metrics don't forget the importance of APM"

Its just not something that is translatable to thins outside of the video game space. However, especially amongst people that play the same game as you, unless you get to masters or high masters or grandmaster or pro, often times your opinions are considered invalid, your theories about how to play the game considered suspect, and you're told to L2P. When you as a Bronze start theorizing about a different way to grip the mouse, or a different way to improve click accuracy--people tell you to learn2play and that your ideas are irrelevant. Not that they're wrong, but it makes it difficult to feel like your time spent on your hobby feels impactful.


Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15914 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 00:51:29
October 20 2016 00:50 GMT
#1124
On October 20 2016 09:38 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 09:13 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 09:04 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:56 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:37 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:22 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:12 Charoisaur wrote:
[quote]
maybe it's not the best thing to say to pick up girls but when talking to male people they are usually very interested when I say I'm playing starcraft. I don't think I know a single male person around my age that doesn't play video games, it's completely normal nowadays.


But is the fact that you play video games something you use as a signifier of pride?

The normal player already knows that he won't be the top player. Going to forums gets him labeled as a noob since he's not a top player. So the only thing left to gain value from the game is social boons. You don't gain social value in society because you practice queen injects for 30 minutes a day.

not sure what you mean with social value in society. when I tell someone I'm around the top 1% of players in sc2 they're usually quite impressed. most people i know play competitive games too like CS, Lol or Dota and can appreciate achieving a high rank.


Since you didn't read what I said, let me attach it here:

The issue with eSports is that when people realized that 99% of the player base was shit and that they were part of that 99% then they stopped caring about playing the game because why be competitive in a sport where you are guaranteed to never do well and you don't get the prestige from trying.


Congrats on being the 1%

Anyone can get to master/high master if they want to and practice enough.


Only a % of people get there. By definition.

Anyway doesn't matter. I don't play starcraft to impress my friends but because it's my hobby.
My point was that a ton of people play (competitive) games nowadays and it's nothing weird to do anymore.
I can speak to other people about my hobby without any problem (at least to males) and they won't find it weird at all.
Being a nerd because you play video games is outdated.


You don't bring it up as a bonus point at work, to your boss, to potential clients. Its not what you use to close a deal, like talking about football does. You don't do it to bond with someone you dislike but have to talk to, like you can with the world cup or the olympics. Its something you can talk to with others who are also doing similar said thing.

no but why would you? there are enough other things you can talk about with those interests in mind unless gaming is the only thing you're interested in. I don't think anyone is doing a hobby for the purpose of impressing his boss.


The goal isn't to impress your boss? But conversations always comes up.

"Looking tired, you okay?"
"Went back to playing rugby, body not as young as it used to be"
"Good for you though, keep up the good work"

vs

"Looking tired today"
"Been practicing last hits for on League for about 4-5 hours each night, pretty tiring"
"Why don't you turn the game off sooner?"
"Because, fundamentals are important?"

etc...

Comes up a lot in sales also as a way to bond and make connections with strangers be it international or US customers.

Also comes up a lot in leadership meetings or team meetings.

Like, you'll hear:

"Back when I was playing foot ball in highschool/college, we really learned a lot about _____, and that is why we need to do _____ "

But you won't hear:

"If you want to up your metrics don't forget the importance of APM"




I get what you mean but do people really say
"Ah I should start playing rugby so I can talk with my boss about it"
or
"I find League of Legends really fun but I can't brag about my league skills with my boss so I won't play it"

People just do what they enjoy. if they can brag about it with other people that's fine but nobody starts a hobby just so they have something to talk about with their boss.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 20 2016 01:00 GMT
#1125
On October 20 2016 09:50 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 09:38 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 09:13 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 09:04 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:56 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:46 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:43 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:41 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:37 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:22 Thieving Magpie wrote:
[quote]

But is the fact that you play video games something you use as a signifier of pride?

The normal player already knows that he won't be the top player. Going to forums gets him labeled as a noob since he's not a top player. So the only thing left to gain value from the game is social boons. You don't gain social value in society because you practice queen injects for 30 minutes a day.

not sure what you mean with social value in society. when I tell someone I'm around the top 1% of players in sc2 they're usually quite impressed. most people i know play competitive games too like CS, Lol or Dota and can appreciate achieving a high rank.


Since you didn't read what I said, let me attach it here:

The issue with eSports is that when people realized that 99% of the player base was shit and that they were part of that 99% then they stopped caring about playing the game because why be competitive in a sport where you are guaranteed to never do well and you don't get the prestige from trying.


Congrats on being the 1%

Anyone can get to master/high master if they want to and practice enough.


Only a % of people get there. By definition.

Anyway doesn't matter. I don't play starcraft to impress my friends but because it's my hobby.
My point was that a ton of people play (competitive) games nowadays and it's nothing weird to do anymore.
I can speak to other people about my hobby without any problem (at least to males) and they won't find it weird at all.
Being a nerd because you play video games is outdated.


You don't bring it up as a bonus point at work, to your boss, to potential clients. Its not what you use to close a deal, like talking about football does. You don't do it to bond with someone you dislike but have to talk to, like you can with the world cup or the olympics. Its something you can talk to with others who are also doing similar said thing.

no but why would you? there are enough other things you can talk about with those interests in mind unless gaming is the only thing you're interested in. I don't think anyone is doing a hobby for the purpose of impressing his boss.


The goal isn't to impress your boss? But conversations always comes up.

"Looking tired, you okay?"
"Went back to playing rugby, body not as young as it used to be"
"Good for you though, keep up the good work"

vs

"Looking tired today"
"Been practicing last hits for on League for about 4-5 hours each night, pretty tiring"
"Why don't you turn the game off sooner?"
"Because, fundamentals are important?"

etc...

Comes up a lot in sales also as a way to bond and make connections with strangers be it international or US customers.

Also comes up a lot in leadership meetings or team meetings.

Like, you'll hear:

"Back when I was playing foot ball in highschool/college, we really learned a lot about _____, and that is why we need to do _____ "

But you won't hear:

"If you want to up your metrics don't forget the importance of APM"




I get what you mean but do people really say
"Ah I should start playing rugby so I can talk with my boss about it"
or
"I find League of Legends really fun but I can't brag about my league skills with my boss so I won't play it"

People just do what they enjoy. if they can brag about it with other people that's fine but nobody starts a hobby just so they have something to talk about with their boss.


Of course not.

People do however say "I've been spending most of my nights on _____, have I just been wasting my time? What am I actually getting out of this? Am not really getting any better, and its not like I'm going to win any ____, what's the point?"
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
aQuaSC
Profile Joined August 2011
717 Posts
October 20 2016 01:23 GMT
#1126
Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system.

The thread is not about Proleague ending anymore either
TL+ Member
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4149 Posts
October 20 2016 02:50 GMT
#1127
I've been waiting a few days to talk about this event. I am utterly heartbroken. I can't believe "Post-Kespa era" is going to describe SC2 now.

Ultimately I don't see this as a WCS issue, ultimately KESPA teams don't care about individual leagues, they make their money off the reliable income from Proleauge, and if Proleague isnt sustainable by itself, thats ultimately the problem, Proleague wasnt getting popular enough in Korea.
"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
Shana
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Indonesia1814 Posts
October 20 2016 03:19 GMT
#1128
Sad to see SC2 gone, especially with how abrupt this ends. Interesting to see Jin Air will support its players.
Believing in what lies ahead. | That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.
ThePacifist
Profile Joined March 2015
Korea (South)46 Posts
October 20 2016 03:49 GMT
#1129
sports.news.naver.com

MVP Head coach : "We never decided to disband. We'll continue as our players do."

Yeah, that's MVP.
A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemy.
ShambhalaWar
Profile Joined August 2013
United States930 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 04:01:59
October 20 2016 03:59 GMT
#1130
On October 20 2016 08:31 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 08:28 xuanzue wrote:
they can plays groups for free btw


this is a half true.

in csgo/dota2 there is the instant access to mathmaking.

the sc2 starter edition is nothing like that.


There is also a greater emphasis on PvE in MOBA games.

If you suck, you can load it up against bots and learn to last hit because those minions will always act the same no matter who you face. Same with the jungle mobs same with the towers. You could say "I am shit vs humans but let me learn to do ____ first, and then I can care about beating humans later."

In SC2 you can die just because you don't make a worker every 15-20 seconds.


You can do the same thing in sc2 vs. AI (and you don't die in sc2 because you didn't make one worker, that's not true, every players macro slips at some point, nobody has perfect mechanics).

The point is, sc2 is not a moba, it's an RTS. The reason it's awesome is because you have to multitask, and that is hard. You don't just stare at one character, you have to go back to base and build a worker every 15 sec, and a pylon. For observers, that's not very exciting and they may not even notice, but managing all those moves in a matter of seconds... is extremely impressive.

This is why I started to play, because it was fun... and after I watched DRG stream I was blown away with the amount of information his brain can process and react to.

Watching some guy last hit a minion in comparison to that.. is like watching a baby eat its dinner.

I play and watch sc2 because I like the game.

LOL and DOTA are free so they probably have a higher player base and because of that more people watch. They also have less complex rule sets (imo) at because of that they are easier to understand (csgo, more popular and simple rule set).

RTS was NEVER a popular gaming model, not on the level of FPS or MOBA.

PVE is irrelevant... and in all pro video games people also practice mechanics.

People's tastes in sports changes, there was a time chess was relatively popular, but it is rarely covered anymore.

I hope the players find support, and can continue their careers in a sport they invested so much time and skill in. *SC2 is the most difficult game in competition by a long shot, any pro should be proud to have played at the pro level.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 20 2016 04:04 GMT
#1131
On October 20 2016 12:59 ShambhalaWar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 08:31 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:28 xuanzue wrote:
they can plays groups for free btw


this is a half true.

in csgo/dota2 there is the instant access to mathmaking.

the sc2 starter edition is nothing like that.


There is also a greater emphasis on PvE in MOBA games.

If you suck, you can load it up against bots and learn to last hit because those minions will always act the same no matter who you face. Same with the jungle mobs same with the towers. You could say "I am shit vs humans but let me learn to do ____ first, and then I can care about beating humans later."

In SC2 you can die just because you don't make a worker every 15-20 seconds.


You can do the same thing in sc2 vs. AI (and you don't die in sc2 because you didn't make one worker, that's not true, every players macro slips at some point, nobody has perfect mechanics).

The point is, sc2 is not a moba, it's an RTS. The reason it's awesome is because you have to multitask, and that is hard. You don't just stare at one character, you have to go back to base and build a worker every 15 sec, and a pylon. For observers, that's not very exciting and they may not even notice, but managing all those moves in a matter of seconds... is extremely impressive.

This is why I started to play, because it was fun... and after I watched DRG stream I was blown away with the amount of information his brain can process and react to.

Watching some guy last hit a minion in comparison to that.. is like watching a baby eat its dinner.

I play and watch sc2 because I like the game.

LOL and DOTA are free so they probably have a higher player base and because of that more people watch. They also have less complex rule sets (imo) at because of that they are easier to understand (csgo, more popular and simple rule set).

RTS was NEVER a popular gaming model, not on the level of FPS or MOBA.

PVE is irrelevant... and in all pro video games people also practice mechanics.

People's tastes in sports changes, there was a time chess was relatively popular, but it is rarely covered anymore.


As someone who loves RTS games, you don't have to preach to me.

But when I talked about PvE in a MOBA, I mean you can literally jump into a ranked match, be absolute shit, but still feel good because you can last hit the minion, because you can clear a jungle pack, because you know when to go in to hit the tower, and when to run out of the tower. In a ranked game, you could go away from where the opposing players are, get a high whatever stat you're maxing out, and when your team loses you can say things like "I held top all by myself" or "I got the most gold" or "I healed the most" followed by "if my team wasn't shit we would have won."

And from a new player perspective, there is comfort in that. That same player does not have that comfort in an RTS. And yes, that is the point of an RTS, but I am biased since I love playing RTS games. Not everyone does.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37014 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 04:09:42
October 20 2016 04:09 GMT
#1132
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 04:57:03
October 20 2016 04:56 GMT
#1133
Someone already got the edit in before me but looks like MVP is still alive

Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 05:07:54
October 20 2016 05:05 GMT
#1134
On October 20 2016 13:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Someone already got the edit in before me but looks like MVP is still alive

https://twitter.com/proxywolf/status/788966886515933184


Elentos kinda called it

edit, to reply to an old subthread:

On October 20 2016 02:12 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 01:44 opisska wrote:
On October 20 2016 01:32 Ve5pa wrote:
On October 20 2016 01:31 Charoisaur wrote:
On October 20 2016 01:02 Ve5pa wrote:
On October 20 2016 00:41 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
On October 20 2016 00:34 Ve5pa wrote:
On October 20 2016 00:22 Vandeam wrote:
sc2 dead game
WCS system is shit.
David Kim should have been fired a long time ago.



While all of this may be true, expressing your opinion here on a public forum is not welcome. Please refrain from posting your own opinions and instead only use TeamLiquid.net/Blizzard approved opinions, whilst also remembering what is acceptable behavior for moderators is not neceesserally acceptable behavior for you. Thanks

I remember, when SC2 was coming out (or before it came out), TL was doing something where if you preordered the game through their link they would get a bonus or something. At this moment I thought, that's unfortunate, the main community site has tied its interest to the profits of Blizzard. And to me, it kind of explains the somewhat aggressive behavior towards some kinds of criticism.


But the vast majority can discuss things in a sensible manner, after all this is TL, not Reddit.


sc2 dead game
WCS system is shit.
David Kim should have been fired a long time ago.

if that's sensible manner for you I'm not sure what you'd call unsensible


That's the irony of it all, banning people from addressing these issue just makes them troll more, I wonder how many people have been warned or received bans in this thread.


"Fire David Kim" and variations thereof is in no way "addressing the issue". It's entitled childish bullshit. Scapegoating a public face of the project doesn't help anything and just reduces the actual issue to tabloid level debate. I agree that TL is somehow overly sensitive about Blizzard criticism, but anyone shouting negative things about DK (or previously Dustin Browder) is just begging to not be taken seriously.

what if it is simply true though... (that the problem comes from these), I know I think so... for sure, stuff like terrible terrible damage, can't you see what it means and how that's exactly the problem? people just don't love the game itself that much because of this stuff, I read it all the time (and thats why I don't play it too, believe me I would if I thought it was great)


But what the heck does anyone here know about the internal structure of Blizzard? Do we know how decisions are made, who is actually pushing the things that you don't like etc.? It's a huge corporation, with many levels of management. The view that you just replace two people and everything will be dandy is, again, simply childish - just look at the bloody politics, where people apply scapegoating all the time and it never actually changes anything.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
TOMisAfish
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia123 Posts
October 20 2016 05:34 GMT
#1135
Really sad day. Hoping this isn't the end of Korean SCII and also high level SCII team based competition. Things won't be the same, that's for sure.
Ziggy
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
South Korea2105 Posts
October 20 2016 05:43 GMT
#1136
I wonder if any potential sponsors are considering stepping in now thst the big teams are gone
WriterDefeating a sandwich only makes it tastier. @imjustziggy
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
October 20 2016 05:43 GMT
#1137
I believe KT is also keeping their teamhouse open at least until the end of the year so that their players can finish out this year's tournaments, maybe including IEM Korea.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
palexhur
Profile Joined May 2010
Colombia730 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-20 05:53:01
October 20 2016 05:51 GMT
#1138
On October 20 2016 13:04 Thieving Magpie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2016 12:59 ShambhalaWar wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:31 Thieving Magpie wrote:
On October 20 2016 08:28 xuanzue wrote:
they can plays groups for free btw


this is a half true.

in csgo/dota2 there is the instant access to mathmaking.

the sc2 starter edition is nothing like that.


There is also a greater emphasis on PvE in MOBA games.

If you suck, you can load it up against bots and learn to last hit because those minions will always act the same no matter who you face. Same with the jungle mobs same with the towers. You could say "I am shit vs humans but let me learn to do ____ first, and then I can care about beating humans later."

In SC2 you can die just because you don't make a worker every 15-20 seconds.


You can do the same thing in sc2 vs. AI (and you don't die in sc2 because you didn't make one worker, that's not true, every players macro slips at some point, nobody has perfect mechanics).

The point is, sc2 is not a moba, it's an RTS. The reason it's awesome is because you have to multitask, and that is hard. You don't just stare at one character, you have to go back to base and build a worker every 15 sec, and a pylon. For observers, that's not very exciting and they may not even notice, but managing all those moves in a matter of seconds... is extremely impressive.

This is why I started to play, because it was fun... and after I watched DRG stream I was blown away with the amount of information his brain can process and react to.

Watching some guy last hit a minion in comparison to that.. is like watching a baby eat its dinner.

I play and watch sc2 because I like the game.

LOL and DOTA are free so they probably have a higher player base and because of that more people watch. They also have less complex rule sets (imo) at because of that they are easier to understand (csgo, more popular and simple rule set).

RTS was NEVER a popular gaming model, not on the level of FPS or MOBA.

PVE is irrelevant... and in all pro video games people also practice mechanics.

People's tastes in sports changes, there was a time chess was relatively popular, but it is rarely covered anymore.


As someone who loves RTS games, you don't have to preach to me.

But when I talked about PvE in a MOBA, I mean you can literally jump into a ranked match, be absolute shit, but still feel good because you can last hit the minion, because you can clear a jungle pack, because you know when to go in to hit the tower, and when to run out of the tower. In a ranked game, you could go away from where the opposing players are, get a high whatever stat you're maxing out, and when your team loses you can say things like "I held top all by myself" or "I got the most gold" or "I healed the most" followed by "if my team wasn't shit we would have won."

And from a new player perspective, there is comfort in that. That same player does not have that comfort in an RTS. And yes, that is the point of an RTS, but I am biased since I love playing RTS games. Not everyone does.


Sorry but what you have named is the difference between team games and 1v1, Age of Empires (RTS) has very good tgs and in a 4v4 you can be the worst of the team and still be proud of holding long enough, tribute resources, raid the enemy trade, etc etc, if LoL or Dota were games where the relevant part was 1v1, who are you going to blame for the lost, or the bad play?, or are you going to be proud for being defeated by yourself?
showstealer1829
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Australia3123 Posts
October 20 2016 05:52 GMT
#1139
On October 20 2016 13:56 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Someone already got the edit in before me but looks like MVP is still alive

https://twitter.com/proxywolf/status/788966886515933184


Of course they are. There is no death. There is only Choya. Choya is the Way. Choya is Love. Choya is Life.
There is no understanding. There is only Choya. Choya is the way. Choya is Love. Choya is Life. Has is the Light in the Protoss Dark and Nightmare is his chosen Acolyte
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
October 20 2016 05:59 GMT
#1140
The RTS I enjoyed the most was aoe2, mostly because I played it in LAN with my friends.

I never had that good feeling in SC2, the 3v3 and 4v4 were kinda linear, and I only achieved to convince 2 friends to pay $60 for a game that we never played in LAN again.

Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
Prev 1 55 56 57 58 59 70 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Group B
herO vs sOsLIVE!
Zoun vs Clem
Tasteless428
ComeBackTV 218
IndyStarCraft 60
Rex45
IntoTheiNu 20
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 428
IndyStarCraft 60
ProTech49
Rex 45
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13009
Calm 9250
Hyuk 2119
Bisu 1255
Sea 679
Jaedong 601
EffOrt 526
actioN 325
Rush 189
ToSsGirL 152
[ Show more ]
Zeus 140
Leta 109
JulyZerg 82
Dewaltoss 78
Mong 67
NaDa 32
Last 30
Barracks 16
Sacsri 14
Movie 12
sorry 8
Free 4
ivOry 4
Dota 2
XaKoH 545
420jenkins479
XcaliburYe370
League of Legends
JimRising 428
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1909
shoxiejesuss700
x6flipin341
PGG 83
allub41
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor184
Other Games
singsing1082
ceh9782
Happy475
C9.Mang0384
Pyrionflax281
crisheroes250
Mew2King153
DeMusliM29
SortOf25
Trikslyr21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick624
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 38
lovetv 6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
BSL: GosuLeague
8h 48m
Hejek vs Aeternum
Semih vs TousaN
Replay Cast
13h 48m
The PondCast
23h 48m
RSL Revival
23h 48m
Harstem vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
1d 13h
RSL Revival
1d 23h
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
SC Evo League
3 days
Road to EWC
3 days
SOOP Global
3 days
Future vs MaNa
Harstem vs Cham
[ Show More ]
Circuito Brasileiro de…
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
Sziky vs JDConan
Cross vs MadiNho
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Road to EWC
4 days
BSL: ProLeague
4 days
UltrA vs TBD
Dewalt vs TBD
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #3 - GSC
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.