EPTOn October 20 2016 07:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:
With eSports, people that don't play call you a nerd
With eSports, people that don't play call you a nerd
Huh? this isn't 2008 anymore.
SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband - Pag…
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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
Huh? this isn't 2008 anymore. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17991 Posts
On October 20 2016 07:21 Hughgrant wrote: Why not switching sc2 to free to play ? some reason Overwatch is not F2P. it prevents hackers from returning because it costs money. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 20 2016 07:54 jalstar wrote: but i feel like sc2 isn't as bad, or at least it wasn't when most low-level players tried to act like day9 Im a bit pissed at the whole situation so my words might be harsher than I intend for them to be. The point is that too often a lot of new players trying to ask for help gets told to just repeat the same boring things over and over again. Experienced RTS players understand these as "fundamentals" and know that without fundamentals you'll never do well. The issue is that, unlike an FPS or a Fighting Game, or even a MOBA--the fundamentals in an RTS is such a high fucking ceiling for new players. "Do this boring thing, do it for about 30-60 minutes per game, and if you don't fuck up at any point, then you'll be at baseline" And this isn't fundamentals like "how you move" or "most efficient way to perform an action" This is fundamentals like "if you mess up you could have half as much stuff as the other guy and it doesn't matter how good your strategy was you die" Last hitting is an easy to understand concept in a MOBA. Because its a skill or fundamental that requires you to do something on the screen in front of you. A lot of the fundamentals in SC2 requires to maintain actions and moves that you only see for fractions of a second at a time--if at all. Making workers? Making Pylons? You want as close to 0 amount of seconds spent having your screen looking at that action. its more cerebral, much more abstracted. And that is the biggest issue with SC2 from a viewer angle. Most of the hard work you can't see on screen. The more on screen data was showing up during streams the more these actions became numbers on the screen and viewers had predetermined conclusions. "Oh, he's 5 army above the other guy? he's already won" type mentality. And so players would go home and spend their energies building workers and pylons and are bored to tears. They go to a forum for help and are mocked for being noobs and they can't talk to their non-gamer friends about it because why would they care about your maynard timing? | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
Go to a bar, tell the girl your hitting on that your hobby is playing video games for 4-8 hour stretches. Ask her if that turns her on. If the girl liked video games, sure. But what about the girls that don't care about games? Girls that don't care about soccer will appreciate that you run. That you work out. Girls that don't care about video games will not appreciate your hotkey setup or your expansion timings. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:03 Thieving Magpie wrote: Im a bit pissed at the whole situation so my words might be harsher than I intend for them to be. The point is that too often a lot of new players trying to ask for help gets told to just repeat the same boring things over and over again. Experienced RTS players understand these as "fundamentals" and know that without fundamentals you'll never do well. The issue is that, unlike an FPS or a Fighting Game, or even a MOBA--the fundamentals in an RTS is such a high fucking ceiling for new players. "Do this boring thing, do it for about 30-60 minutes per game, and if you don't fuck up at any point, then you'll be at baseline" And this isn't fundamentals like "how you move" or "most efficient way to perform an action" This is fundamentals like "if you mess up you could have half as much stuff as the other guy and it doesn't matter how good your strategy was you die" Last hitting is an easy to understand concept in a MOBA. Because its a skill or fundamental that requires you to do something on the screen in front of you. A lot of the fundamentals in SC2 requires to maintain actions and moves that you only see for fractions of a second at a time--if at all. Making workers? Making Pylons? You want as close to 0 amount of seconds spent having your screen looking at that action. its more cerebral, much more abstracted. And that is the biggest issue with SC2 from a viewer angle. Most of the hard work you can't see on screen. The more on screen data was showing up during streams the more these actions became numbers on the screen and viewers had predetermined conclusions. "Oh, he's 5 army above the other guy? he's already won" type mentality. And so players would go home and spend their energies building workers and pylons and are bored to tears. They go to a forum for help and are mocked for being noobs and they can't talk to their non-gamer friends about it because why would they care about your maynard timing? that's just how an RTS game works. when I started sc2 I found it incredibly challenging to improve my mechanics and was very motivated to do so. Apparently now the average gamer just prefers MOBAs or FPS games and there's nothing we can do about it. As JimmiJraynor says it's just a shift in consumer tastes. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:03 Thieving Magpie wrote: (snip) This is fundamentals like "if you mess up you could have half as much stuff as the other guy and it doesn't matter how good your strategy was you die" Last hitting is an easy to understand concept in a MOBA. Because its a skill or fundamental that requires you to do something on the screen in front of you. A lot of the fundamentals in SC2 requires to maintain actions and moves that you only see for fractions of a second at a time--if at all. Making workers? Making Pylons? You want as close to 0 amount of seconds spent having your screen looking at that action. its more cerebral, much more abstracted. And that is the biggest issue with SC2 from a viewer angle. Most of the hard work you can't see on screen. (snip) Take any MOBA for example and you have a ton of stuff to learn. Heroes, Abilities, Mobs, Mechanics(while easy isolated, combined they're hard), items and objectives. A high skill floor is not at all unique to StarCraft II - people just need to be motivated to actually bother getting there. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:05 Thieving Magpie wrote: Go to a bar, tell the girl your hitting on that your hobby is playing video games for 4-8 hour stretches. Ask her if that turns her on. If the girl liked video games, sure. But what about the girls that don't care about games? Girls that don't care about soccer will appreciate that you run. That you work out. Girls that don't care about video games will not appreciate your hotkey setup or your expansion timings. maybe it's not the best thing to say to pick up girls but when talking to male people they are usually very interested when I say I'm playing starcraft. I don't think I know a single male person around my age that doesn't play video games, it's completely normal nowadays. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:10 KeksX wrote: Take any MOBA for example and you have a ton of stuff to learn. Heroes, Abilities, Mobs, Mechanics(while easy isolated, combined they're hard), items and objectives. A high skill floor is not at all unique to StarCraft II - people just need to be motivated to actually bother getting there. Easy to understand =/= easy. My complaint is that its just boring to make workers as opposed to shooting fireballs or killing minions, especially for new players. | ||
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TheSayo182
Italy243 Posts
On October 20 2016 07:21 Hughgrant wrote: Why not switching sc2 to free to play ? Why do yoy think it will help? For a moment lets say that the game is not bad designed or frustrating, it is still very time demanding and difficult, its not that kind of game that appeal to casuals, they can plays groups for free btw Speaking personally about f the game, i bought it but never played or watched any game of lotv cause i found it disgusting and it totally killed my passion | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:12 Charoisaur wrote: maybe it's not the best thing to say to pick up girls but when talking to male people they are usually very interested when I say I'm playing starcraft. I don't think I know a single male person around my age that doesn't play video games, it's completely normal nowadays. But is the fact that you play video games something you use as a signifier of pride? The normal player already knows that he won't be the top player. Going to forums gets him labeled as a noob since he's not a top player. So the only thing left to gain value from the game is social boons. You don't gain social value in society because you practice queen injects for 30 minutes a day. | ||
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
they can plays groups for free btw this is a half true. in csgo/dota2 there is the instant access to mathmaking. the sc2 starter edition is nothing like that. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:28 xuanzue wrote: this is a half true. in csgo/dota2 there is the instant access to mathmaking. the sc2 starter edition is nothing like that. There is also a greater emphasis on PvE in MOBA games. If you suck, you can load it up against bots and learn to last hit because those minions will always act the same no matter who you face. Same with the jungle mobs same with the towers. You could say "I am shit vs humans but let me learn to do ____ first, and then I can care about beating humans later." In SC2 you can die just because you don't make a worker every 15-20 seconds. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:22 Thieving Magpie wrote: But is the fact that you play video games something you use as a signifier of pride? The normal player already knows that he won't be the top player. Going to forums gets him labeled as a noob since he's not a top player. So the only thing left to gain value from the game is social boons. You don't gain social value in society because you practice queen injects for 30 minutes a day. not sure what you mean with social value in society. when I tell someone I'm around the top 1% of players in sc2 they're usually quite impressed. most people i know play competitive games too like CS, Lol or Dota and can appreciate achieving a high rank. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:37 Charoisaur wrote: not sure what you mean with social value in society. when I tell someone I'm around the top 1% of players in sc2 they're usually quite impressed. most people i know play competitive games too like CS, Lol or Dota and can appreciate achieving a high rank. Since you didn't read what I said, let me attach it here: The issue with eSports is that when people realized that 99% of the player base was shit and that they were part of that 99% then they stopped caring about playing the game because why be competitive in a sport where you are guaranteed to never do well and you don't get the prestige from trying. Congrats on being the 1% | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:41 Thieving Magpie wrote: Since you didn't read what I said, let me attach it here: Congrats on being the 1% Anyone can get to master/high master if they want to and practice enough. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:43 Charoisaur wrote: Anyone can get to master/high master if they want to and practice enough. Only a % of people get there. By definition. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:46 Thieving Magpie wrote: Only a % of people get there. By definition. Anyway doesn't matter. I don't play starcraft to impress my friends but because it's my hobby. My point was that a ton of people play (competitive) games nowadays and it's nothing weird to do anymore. I can speak to other people about my hobby without any problem (at least to males) and they won't find it weird at all. Being a nerd because you play video games is outdated. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 20 2016 08:56 Charoisaur wrote: Anyway doesn't matter. I don't play starcraft to impress my friends but because it's my hobby. My point was that a ton of people play (competitive) games nowadays and it's nothing weird to do anymore. I can speak to other people about my hobby without any problem (at least to males) and they won't find it weird at all. Being a nerd because you play video games is outdated. The fact that you speak to fellow males who also play video games means you don't understand what I am talking about. You don't bring it up as a bonus point at work, to your boss, to potential clients. Its not what you use to close a deal, like talking about football does. You don't do it to bond with someone you dislike but have to talk to, like you can with the world cup or the olympics. Its something you can talk to with others who are also doing similar said thing. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On October 20 2016 09:04 Thieving Magpie wrote: You don't bring it up as a bonus point at work, to your boss, to potential clients. Its not what you use to close a deal, like talking about football does. You don't do it to bond with someone you dislike but have to talk to, like you can with the world cup or the olympics. Its something you can talk to with others who are also doing similar said thing. no but why would you? there are enough other things you can talk about with those interests in mind unless gaming is the only thing you're interested in. I don't think anyone is doing a hobby for the purpose of impressing his boss. | ||
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