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SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband - Pag…
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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
XD | ||
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Barnabaszu
5 Posts
hmm to think of it Neeb winning Kespa and teamless Byun winning the gsl might have been the nail in the coffin - we sponsor those teams rent teamhouses, pay staff, players and still we lose our most prestigious tourneys - to non teamer and a foreigner(!). Let's just hope sc2 will move on and new solutions will present :/ | ||
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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Sejanus
Lithuania550 Posts
To all people bashing sc2 all over- and yet you are still here. You were watching tournaments, stream, followed players, teames, leagues and dramas for past 6 years. No. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4967 Posts
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Darkdwarf
Sweden960 Posts
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Cyanocyst
2222 Posts
On October 19 2016 01:59 Fran_ wrote: There is no reason to believe Blizzard will make SC3. I hope to be very wrong though. I think they will it might be 15 or 20 years away. But I feel like they will. | ||
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
On October 19 2016 02:36 KeksX wrote: You realize that many SC2 fans were/are BW fans? I care for both games and so do many people on here. Fuck anyone that shit(s) on either BW or SC2 during these times. Both are great games with a great history, both games deserve a spot in the scene. % of BW fans that are SC2 fans is rather minuscule. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On October 19 2016 03:08 RealityIsKing wrote: % of BW fans that are SC2 fans is rather minuscule. This seems like a well-researched claim. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1560 Posts
On October 19 2016 02:39 MaCRo.gg wrote: ROFL Banning Korean players from participating in ANYTHING outside of Korea wasn't a factor in KeSPA dropping SC2? Welfare killing viewership had no effect on the Korean scene? Forcing early Korean player retirements of many fan favorites had NO EFFECT? No doubt SC2 was dying and Korean interest in SC2 practically dead, but clearly xenophobia had a factor in killing Proleague. You gotta have something wrong in your head to not understand what I said edit: mod note by KwarK This post has been certified non actionable at the request of MaCRo.gg Thanks to everyone involved and Happy Holidays! Drive safe. - KwarK | ||
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
Or that they are not mechanically enough to play BW and have to play SC2. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On October 19 2016 03:12 RealityIsKing wrote: Or that they are not mechanically enough to play BW and have to play SC2. What? | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote: No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft. Smartest thing that has been said, and a lot of us said it. TheDwf screamed it with Razzia of the Blizzsters. Right now, the game is bad for casual players compared to games like League. And thus SC2 doesn't draw people in like it did during WOL, when it was more friendly for casuals. The vast majority of players start as casuals, and then become viewers. Co-op is the most popular part of SC2 right now, and it won't spawn an E-sport. I do wonder if a group or a person with more clout had been more critical sooner of what Blizzard was doing if something would have changed. But we saw all of the important groups and people fall in line, Team Liquid included. Ironic that the people that were most invested and dependent on Blizzard, are the ones who will suffer the most from Blizzard's failure. Hopefully it is a lesson learnt. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
On October 19 2016 03:15 BronzeKnee wrote: Smartest thing that has been said, and a lot of us said it. TheDwf screamed it with Razzia of the Blizzsters. Right now, the game is bad for casual players compared to games like League. And thus SC2 doesn't draw people in like it did during WOL, when it was more friendly for casuals. The vast majority of players start as casuals, and then become viewers. I do wonder if a group or a person with more clout had been more critical sooner of what Blizzard was doing if something would have changed. But we saw all of the important groups and people fall in line, Team Liquid included. Ironic that the people that were most invested and dependent on Blizzard, were the ones who will suffer the most from their failure. Hopefully it is a lesson learnt. I mean I see the whole "not enough casuals" thing but how the hell was WoL more friendly to casuals? The game was practically broken on release lol SC2 is just reaching the end of it's already significant life span, yes having someone more competent then David Kim leading the design and balance and better judgement calls being made on things like region lock may have kept hype up for longer but let's just call it like it is. Starcraft 2 is hard to play, punishing to noobs, isolates you, and is competing with free to play games like LoL/Dota2/HoTS that are easy to play, not punishing to noobs at all, immerses you with other people, and is free besides skins that you can buy at your own behest. It's not that SC2 isn't a great game, it's amazing, it's just that the genre itself is past it's prime because it isn't catering to what modern gamers enjoy. SC2 not dead game, RTS dead genre. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 19 2016 03:15 BronzeKnee wrote: Smartest thing that has been said, and a lot of us said it. TheDwf screamed it with Razzia of the Blizzsters. Right now, the game is bad for casual players compared to games like League. And thus SC2 doesn't draw people in like it did during WOL, when it was more friendly for casuals. The vast majority of players start as casuals, and then become viewers. Co-op is the most popular part of SC2 right now, and it won't spawn an E-sport. Most BW players probably weren't active in the competitive scene, but busy playing custom games and more specifically BGH. Overwatch, Hearthstone, LoL/DotA2 all have modes very different to the main eSports game. Co-Op definitely has the potential to be the "casual game" that SC2 needs as a basis. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
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Elentos
55594 Posts
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Jampackedeon
United States2053 Posts
Proleague was never something I enjoyed but I know it helped launch what I loved about SC2, you will be missed! | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 19 2016 03:23 Elentos wrote: This is an article about KT after the announcement. Can anyone translate/give a rough summary? I think it's mostly about both parties still determined to let the contracts run out properly, fulfill their duty and players giving their best in the competition that is left(namely Blizzcon). | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On October 19 2016 03:19 Beelzebub1 wrote: SC2 not dead game, RTS dead genre. You keep saying this, over and over, and it is poor analysis because it isn't qualitative (or quantitative for that matter unless you have some figures): you're not looking at the quality of SC2 as a game. Look at the game design decisions and understanding that SC2 violates many game design principles, especially modern principles that have made League so popular. Maybe as a game designer I see this more clearly, but check this out: Power Without Gameplay This is when we give a big benefit in a way that players don't find satisfying or don't notice. The classic example of this is team benefit Auras. In general, other players don't value the aura you give them very much, and you don't value it much either -- even though auras can win games. As a REALLY general example, I would say that players value a +50 armor aura only about twice as much as a +10 armor aura... Even though +50 is 5x better. Another example would be comparing a +10 damage aura to a skill that every 10 seconds gives flaming weapons that make +30 damage to all teammates next attack (with fire and explosions!). I am pretty sure that most players are WAY more excited about the fiery weapons buff, even though the strength is lower overall. The problem with using a "power without gameplay" mechanic is that you tend to have to 'over-buff' the mechanic and create a game balance problem before people appreciate it. As a result, we tend to keep Auras weak, and/or avoid them altogether, and/or pair them on an active/passive where the active is very strong and satisfying, so that the passive is more strategic around character choice. For example, Sona's auras are all quite weak -- because at weak values they ARE appreciated properly. Is there any better example of an overbuffed power without gameplay mechanic than pylon overcharge? Literally press F and click on pylons to hold off early timings. Is it satisfying for Protoss, makes the player feel skilled? Not at all. Is it overbuffed? Most certainly. That quote is from this old League of Legends design blog: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=293417 Read through the rest of the anti-design patterns and you'll begin to realize how SC2 fell off a cliff. People play good games and good games are well designed. Sc2 is poorly designed. | ||
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