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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. | ||
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Muffloe
Sweden6061 Posts
On October 18 2016 20:32 Elentos wrote: You almost make it sound like it's not a big deal and should be easy to fight through. Hey, melee was in spot post-mlg with like 10 people tournaments, and look where it is now  Yeah I know, different scenes but w/e | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
On October 18 2016 20:32 Elentos wrote: You almost make it sound like it's not a big deal and should be easy to fight through. I wont be surprised if GSL and/or SSL will end too. The pro players will need salary, so i guess its game switching time. Without the kr power house the scene just dies. Foreigners will need to train even less, games wont develop in quality. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On October 18 2016 20:38 gingerfluffmuff wrote: I wont be surprised if GSL and/or SSL will end too. Well, GSL was already announced for next year. But we'll only really know how the scene will look like when the time comes. | ||
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sh1RoKen
Russian Federation93 Posts
On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote: No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft. More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft. That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport. Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments. And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On October 18 2016 20:07 letian wrote: Should we include other sport leagues as well, because they are leagues? The common point between SC2 PL and SMITE league is: the proleague. Clearly, both games share the same universe and progamers to some extend but that's it. No, this looks like an attempt to drag BW into this and I don't like it, because SC2 was the reason why BW PL ended. true, with the attempt of storytelling that SC2 was itself just "Starcraft", the same thing, and all should move on forcibly with lawsuit + pouring money on a game nobody knew what it was really worth ;; never mentioning BW as also still being Starcraft, the present and future of Starcraft was now SC2, and BW the past. A corporate attack (by activision) on a community, fanbase, professional scene and should I say RTS game design for its own 100% self centered profit. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On October 18 2016 20:45 eviltomahawk wrote: I think Blizzard will really push for at least one big tournament to stay alive in Korea, most likely GSL. There were rumors since the release of SC2 that Blizzard was secretly funding most of GSL the entire time, and I would expect them to continue using the league as the Korean arm of WCS. Well yeah, I think so too. But the question is if GSL will still have enough players worth watching after the smoke clears. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5617 Posts
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petro1987
Brazil374 Posts
On October 18 2016 20:41 ProMeTheus112 wrote: true, with the attempt of storytelling that SC2 was itself just "Starcraft", the same thing, and all should move on forcibly with lawsuit + pouring money on a game nobody knew what it was really worth ;; never mentioning BW as also still being Starcraft, the present and future of Starcraft was now SC2, and BW the past. A corporate attack (by activision) on a community, fanbase, professional scene and should I say RTS game design for its own 100% self centered profit. Not to mention Dustin Browder (many people seem to forget about him now) actually saying: "If you like BW, go play BW!" whenever anyone tried to point a design issue. I guess forcing Korea to transition to SC2 wasn't a great idea afterall, right? It didn't even make sense considering the playerbase of both games. Has SC2 ever reached 1% in those game metrics sites? It's just a shame this happened and now we have no proleague anymore. Yet, I see people here blaming everything else, but the game design. The zealous apologists should really take a time to reflect if blindly defending every poor design decision in the game was a good idea. | ||
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Hildegard
Germany348 Posts
On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote: I bet no one could predict such an outcome. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. | ||
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FakeYIFENG
1 Post
Wellcome to China | ||
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Edooooooooo
China1 Post
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On October 18 2016 20:52 petro1987 wrote: Not to mention Dustin Browder (many people seem to forget about him now) actually saying: "If you like BW, go play BW!" whenever anyone tried to point a design issue. I guess forcing Korea to transition to SC2 wasn't a great idea afterall, right? It didn't even make sense considering the playerbase of both games. Has SC2 ever reached 1% in those game metrics sites? It's just a shame this happened and now we have no proleague anymore. Yet, I see people here blaming everything else, but the game design. The zealous apologists should really take a time to reflect if blindly defending every poor design decision in the game was a good idea. It's true, you know I remember from the very start, even if all games have criticism that's normal, but SC2 was always quite heavily criticised. There was not so much passion, lots of hype, and lots of attraction to money and fame. Guys like Dustin Browder giving an example of how to bully people who would try to go in depth, while they also shut down public conversations as possible on a new battle.net interface with unpractical chat system. They used this stuff to propel SC2 to where it could never have been if it hadn't stolen as much as possible from what people had built on BW. Because nobody could compete in terms of advertising in the RTS business, they have dealt this damage and now we are stuck with a culture that MOBAs are the new RTS, or that RTS have to be that way and online interface are all about auto matchmaking, achievements and diminished social features. Now SC2 has some of the qualities of BW in it, so it is still more of a strategy game than a MOBA for sure. But I hope, that wherever the future takes us with a new RTS, people will know not to just take SC2's features as a good example of what RTS can be. | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
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sh1RoKen
Russian Federation93 Posts
On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote: I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. | ||
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote: Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. Sounds like LoL would be the right game for you. | ||
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Aegwynn
Italy460 Posts
On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote: Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. | ||
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gTank
Austria2669 Posts
There is not that deep strategic part in sc2 as it was in sc1. High ground doesnt give that much advantage, mostly it is only max army and fight into instant win/lose. Too many hard counters as well as well as abilities that were not fun to play against. | ||
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