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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. |
btw Nathanias is gonna be on Co-Optional podcast today. I'm sure TB and he will really get into the topic
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On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me.
Yes let's remove what makes Starcraft Starcraft :>
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Damn, end of an era. Not surprising though.
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Russian Federation93 Posts
On October 18 2016 21:11 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. Sounds like LoL would be the right game for you.
Sounds like we both will be playing LoL right after blizzard will shut down SC2 servers due to the absence of the playerbase. But they will do it in a very honorable way as the most hardcore servers shutdown in the world.
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Fuck im so sad for the hard working korean players that will be forced to retire.
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This sucks. Not totally unexpected but I was hoping it would last for at least one more year.
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Not just sc2, but sc1 also.
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Poll: Do you think zerg need to be nerfed?Larva nerf (8) 30% Evolution chamber drops nerfs (0) 0% Lurkers damage nerf (1) 4% Hatch cost to 400 minerals (1) 4% Ultralisk armor nerf (17) 63% 27 total votes Your vote: Do you think zerg need to be nerfed? (Vote): Larva nerf
(Vote): Evolution chamber drops nerfs
(Vote): Lurkers damage nerf
(Vote): Hatch cost to 400 minerals
(Vote): Ultralisk armor nerf
User was warned for this post
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Russian Federation93 Posts
On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro.
Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there.
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On October 18 2016 20:07 letian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 19:48 Glioburd wrote:On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:It appears SC2 Proleague is coming to an end. The league ran from 2005-2016. Why did you include BW Proleague and call it a "league"? Because it was a league. On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:
This is not correct since BW PL ended long ago and has nothing to do with SC2 PL. The common point between BW PL and SC2 PL is : the proleague. Should we include other sport leagues as well, because they are leagues? The common point between SC2 PL and SMITE league is: the proleague. Clearly, both games share the same universe and progamers to some extend but that's it. No, this looks like an attempt to drag BW into this and I don't like it, because SC2 was the reason why BW PL ended.
Brood War SPL
Hybrid SPL YES IT HAPPENED !
SC2 SPL.
Like the Proleague is THE ONLY league that didn't get discontinued... It's the only league that got a transition. A bad one but hey.
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wow end of an era... so now what will happen in Korea I still believe there will be tournaments there rigth?
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Russian Federation93 Posts
On October 18 2016 21:15 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. Yes let's remove what makes Starcraft Starcraft :>
Because nobody wants to play Starcraft. Nobody wants to watch Starcraft. Nobody wants to advertise their stuff to those few people who watch Starcraft. Nobody wants to create tournaments because they get no money from advertisers. And, finally, as you can see, nobody wants to be a progamer in a game with no money invested in the pro scene.
So, it's either you cut your hand off and free yourself or die. "That is for you to decide."
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On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there.
I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was
-Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
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On October 18 2016 21:38 sh1RoKen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:15 Luolis wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. Yes let's remove what makes Starcraft Starcraft :> Because nobody wants to play Starcraft. Nobody wants to watch Starcraft. Nobody wants to advertise their stuff to those few people who watch Starcraft. Nobody wants to create tournaments because they get no money from advertisers. And, finally, as you can see, nobody wants to be a progamer in a game with no money invested in the pro scene. So, it's either you cut your hand off and free yourself or die. "That is for you to decide."
this guy is right, making sc2 was a mistake, supporting BW is a mistake, we should all go play something else thats super alive and has lots of money being thrown around
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On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player -Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game -Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC -If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre -I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
i dont think you get it bro only unit composition and surprising build choices that abuse a certain map or meta is strategy, and only single unit ability usage is real micro. it gets especially real micro and tactical when you use one of the hundred ways to kill an entire mineral line every game kappa
cus we all know strategy can only exist and evolve when we're all constantly forced to play new maps that force new styles and we get yearly design patches right???
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 18 2016 18:37 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 18:26 Philozovic wrote:As sad and shatter as I am right now. This will at least teach me a lesson I will remember for life. If you fucking want to do something do it and do not postponed. I will most likely never watch korean starcraft live  I thought about this when I decided to go to Korea this year. My team got stomped but I am still I got to watch them and the whole show live.
yeh same. got to meet bomber and flash. super happy that it happened now.
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On October 18 2016 21:14 gTank wrote:
sh1RoKen is not 100% correct but also not 100% wrong.
There is not that deep strategic part in sc2 as it was in sc1. High ground doesnt give that much advantage, mostly it is only max army and fight into instant win/lose. Too many hard counters as well as well as abilities that were not fun to play against.
This^. I have been meching as Terran everygame because I am nostalgic of broodwar. Now high ground doesn't do much for you and moving out before having maxed out army is suicidal with this playstyle. Overall, there are too many ways of destroying an entire mineral line in a few seconds for the game to be more about smaller engagements in my opinion. Let's do a quick list. Even unlikely scenarios included:
Protoss:
- Adepts (There's a specific place in gamers hell for this one)
- Oracles
- Dark Templars
- Distruptors
- Storm
Zerg
- Mutalisks
- Banelings
- Speedlings
Terran
-Mines
-Nukes
I haven't played Broodwar in years, but I don't recall this instant kill all workers aspect to be as much present. Of course theses examples can all be defended and prepared for, but if you slip up, your economy is dead in 1 or 2 seconds. Slower gameplay overall and better unit design made this aspect of the game not as extreme in Broodwar and it is far TOO extreme in Starcraft 2 in my opinion.
EDIT: Gave more substance to post.
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On October 18 2016 21:53 -IAEVAI-KolosS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:14 gTank wrote:
sh1RoKen is not 100% correct but also not 100% wrong.
There is not that deep strategic part in sc2 as it was in sc1. High ground doesnt give that much advantage, mostly it is only max army and fight into instant win/lose. Too many hard counters as well as well as abilities that were not fun to play against. This^ No. Less true than ever. LotV produces quite some comeback games.
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Well, this certainly hurts. I wish the best for all the players.
However, on second thought:
Why should my love for this game be impacted by this? I can continue playing and watching it. Sure, we won't have Proleague entertainment anymore and arguably will lose some professional Korean players to other games. But it is due to a business decision. It's not like nobody in Korea wanted SCII suddenly. Let time continue the story of the scene!
Also, a thought on all the "dead game" comments: What's their point? A game can be alive from an individuals point of view in many ways. As long as I personally enjoy it, it is alive - and even more so if others share that attitude, which arguably with SCII still is the case.
Let's hope Blizzcon will be a blast and bring better news soon! 
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I'm mad but also don't know at what.
I hope this isn't the end of korean StarCraft II. But I also think that if SC2 can't sustain a healthy pro scene, it should just end.
So let's hope this will cause a restructure towards a more healthy environment.
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EPT
