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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. |
Russian Federation93 Posts
On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player
Ok. Redesign starcraft to become a buinding contest. You build your base and then judges give you points based on how smart you are. This will be FUN!
On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
Indeed. But what if we make it a little bit easier so we can focus more on our opponent. Not on PvE mechanics.
I want to think HOW (on what) should I spent my resources. Not HOW FAST.
On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
I was a C- on Iccup right before WoL came out. And BW will never ever extend starcraft fun base. It will bring back the old-school guys but it is nothing compared to what MOBAs have. Wee need casual players here. Who don't want to have 300 apm to move their 12 dragoons up on a ramp.
On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
I want strategy to become crucial in RTS. Not merchanics. It's not an RTM.
On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
I've never assumed you skill level. Please accept my apologies if you thought so.
If Starcraft is not fun to a below-diamond players (And it is not fun right now. It doesn't even look like Starcraft there.), it will never become a world-wide sport.
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How cruel is it that one day before the release of one of the biggest content patches in the games history, Korean Starcraft 2 implodes.
Neeb being just in time to beat them on their own soil.
The worst thing is all those teams disbanding, I wonder how many of the players will remain dedicated to SC2. GSL will still be there at least.
On October 18 2016 19:33 lichter wrote:
since proleague is done i guess there's no harm in saying that i was actually in discussion with kespa last year about creating an improved FPL with their help, which would also allow korean fans to play and compete with fans on TL. would have been great to bridge the gap between the two sets of fans. they were really excited about it and they really wanted to make it a big part of the proleague experience, which shows that kespa really did try to keep proleague going and were still searching for ways to improve it. unfortunately when the matchfixing scandals hit that pretty much nixed the deal completely.
Damn that would have been awesome. Do you think without the matchfixing scandals Proleague would still have a 2017 edition? I mean there was always a decline in interest in Korea but did the matchfixing seal the deal?
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On October 18 2016 22:05 Aquila Magna wrote:Well, this certainly hurts. I wish the best for all the players. However, on second thought: Why should my love for this game be impacted by this? I can continue playing and watching it. Sure, we won't have Proleague entertainment anymore and arguably will lose some professional Korean players to other games. But it is due to a business decision. It's not like nobody in Korea wanted SCII suddenly. Let time continue the story of the scene! Also, a thought on all the "dead game" comments: What's their point? A game can be alive from an individuals point of view in many ways. As long as I personally enjoy it, it is alive - and even more so if others share that attitude, which arguably with SCII still is the case. Let's hope Blizzcon will be a blast and bring better news soon! 
thanks for people like you really thanks :D
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On October 18 2016 21:58 Jj_82 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:53 -IAEVAI-KolosS wrote:On October 18 2016 21:14 gTank wrote:
sh1RoKen is not 100% correct but also not 100% wrong.
There is not that deep strategic part in sc2 as it was in sc1. High ground doesnt give that much advantage, mostly it is only max army and fight into instant win/lose. Too many hard counters as well as well as abilities that were not fun to play against. This^ No. Less true than ever. LotV produces quite some comeback games.
Agreed their are a lot of comeback games, but I feel mostly it's because of a quick unit ability and lucky mine hit of something gimmicke rather than good placement and strategy. Then again you,re entitled to your opinion. Go back to read my edited post.
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On October 18 2016 22:07 sh1RoKen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player Ok. Redesign starcraft to become a buinding contest. You build your base and then judges give you points based on how smart you are. This will be FUN! Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
Indeed. But what if we make it a little bit easier so we can focus more on our opponent. Not on PvE mechanics. I want to think HOW (on what) should I spent my resources. Not HOW FAST. Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
I was a C- on Iccup right before WoL came out. And BW will never ever extend starcraft fun base. It will bring back the old-school guys but it is nothing compared to what MOBAs have. Wee need casual players here. Who don't want to have 300 apm to move their 12 dragoons up on a ramp. Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
I want strategy to become crucial in RT S. Not merchanics. It's not an RTM. Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
I've never assumed you skill level. Please accept my apologies if you thought so. If Starcraft is not fun to a below-diamond players (And it is not fun right now. It doesn't even look like Starcraft there.), it will never become a world-wide sport.
there actually just seems to be a massive disconnect between you and what SC fans and competitors enjoy and want
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On October 18 2016 22:12 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:07 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player Ok. Redesign starcraft to become a buinding contest. You build your base and then judges give you points based on how smart you are. This will be FUN! On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
Indeed. But what if we make it a little bit easier so we can focus more on our opponent. Not on PvE mechanics. I want to think HOW (on what) should I spent my resources. Not HOW FAST. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
I was a C- on Iccup right before WoL came out. And BW will never ever extend starcraft fun base. It will bring back the old-school guys but it is nothing compared to what MOBAs have. Wee need casual players here. Who don't want to have 300 apm to move their 12 dragoons up on a ramp. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
I want strategy to become crucial in RT S. Not merchanics. It's not an RTM. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
I've never assumed you skill level. Please accept my apologies if you thought so. If Starcraft is not fun to a below-diamond players (And it is not fun right now. It doesn't even look like Starcraft there.), it will never become a world-wide sport. there actually just seems to be a massive disconnect between you and what SC fans and competitors enjoy and want
To be fair, there has always been this disconnect between StarCraft fans and "traditional RTS" fans. The argument of "PvE" is something I hear a lot when non-SC fans talk about SC.
But I see very little point in discussing this. No RTS is in a really good shape right now in Korea. This shouldn't be a discussion about BW vs SC2 or SC2 vs other RTS. It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
Btw - does anyone know what this means for SSL?
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Not like this... Not like this... <shakes head in disbelief>
Best case scenario the big guns still attend GSL as free agents for a year or two, if Blizzard funds.
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On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:12 Aocowns wrote:On October 18 2016 22:07 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player Ok. Redesign starcraft to become a buinding contest. You build your base and then judges give you points based on how smart you are. This will be FUN! On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
Indeed. But what if we make it a little bit easier so we can focus more on our opponent. Not on PvE mechanics. I want to think HOW (on what) should I spent my resources. Not HOW FAST. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
I was a C- on Iccup right before WoL came out. And BW will never ever extend starcraft fun base. It will bring back the old-school guys but it is nothing compared to what MOBAs have. Wee need casual players here. Who don't want to have 300 apm to move their 12 dragoons up on a ramp. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
I want strategy to become crucial in RT S. Not merchanics. It's not an RTM. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
I've never assumed you skill level. Please accept my apologies if you thought so. If Starcraft is not fun to a below-diamond players (And it is not fun right now. It doesn't even look like Starcraft there.), it will never become a world-wide sport. there actually just seems to be a massive disconnect between you and what SC fans and competitors enjoy and want To be fair, there has always been this disconnect between StarCraft fans and "traditional RTS" fans. The argument of "PvE" is something I hear a lot when non-SC fans talk about SC. But I see very little point in discussing this. No RTS is in a really good shape right now in Korea. This shouldn't be a discussion about BW vs SC2 or SC2 vs other RTS. It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch. Btw - does anyone know what this means for SSL?
Easy, make BW HD and we are good.
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Where can we go from here?
Can we only move on or is there still any hope left?
I dont even know what the next best RTS is, and I dont really want to.
I want SC2 to be great, this make me just sad... I hope they announce WC4 at Blizzcon.
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If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors.
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Here's players situation
<SKT>
soO : Allude to retirement on Twitter, Facebook
but will decide his attitude after 2017 WCS system announcement (on Interview with FOMOS)
Classic : Will decide his attitude soon (on Facebook)
Sorry : Retirement (on Facebook)
MyuNgSiK : Switched to Overwatch
Dark : Will continue to play SC2 next year (on Twitter fan's account)
<KT>
Stats : Will continue to play SC2 next year (Korean caster Canata mentioned)
<SGK>
Solar : Will continue to play SC2 next year (on Facebook)
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On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors.
So pick up the pitchforks and besiege the KESPA jail? Is it still keeping Life locked down or he is outlawed?
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On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc.
what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact.
On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors.
the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable.
Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene.
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On October 18 2016 21:45 Aocowns wrote:
cus we all know strategy can only exist and evolve when we're all constantly forced to play new maps that force new styles and we get yearly design patches right???
This is what annoys me the most. I'm freaking exploding with rage every time they announce new "innovative" maps or balance changes. I've been playing RTS for 20 years (SC2 for 5 years) but i guess it's time to say "GG" to DK and company and finally switch to SFV (btw i highly recommend it for everyone who loves mechanics oriented games). At least i have an excuse now (i know i don't). I will only consider coming back when they fire DK and stop redesigning the game every year.
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Russian Federation93 Posts
On October 18 2016 22:12 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:07 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player Ok. Redesign starcraft to become a buinding contest. You build your base and then judges give you points based on how smart you are. This will be FUN! On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
Indeed. But what if we make it a little bit easier so we can focus more on our opponent. Not on PvE mechanics. I want to think HOW (on what) should I spent my resources. Not HOW FAST. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
I was a C- on Iccup right before WoL came out. And BW will never ever extend starcraft fun base. It will bring back the old-school guys but it is nothing compared to what MOBAs have. Wee need casual players here. Who don't want to have 300 apm to move their 12 dragoons up on a ramp. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
I want strategy to become crucial in RT S. Not merchanics. It's not an RTM. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
I've never assumed you skill level. Please accept my apologies if you thought so. If Starcraft is not fun to a below-diamond players (And it is not fun right now. It doesn't even look like Starcraft there.), it will never become a world-wide sport. there actually just seems to be a massive disconnect between you and what SC fans and competitors enjoy and want
If you enjoy it, play it. I would never try convince anyone to stop playing the game they like.
But, as you can see, the game you enjoy has no future on a competitive world-wide cypersport scene due to the lack of the casual fun base. If you are OK with esportless Starcraft, I have nothing to say to you. Just play this game and I wish you nothing but gl hf.
But, to survive this battle for esport viewers, Starcraft needs some serious redesign to make it more fun to casual low-level players. That is all what I am trying to say. And that is what I've said 2 years ago.
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On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact.
I should clarify that I was talking about the pros and those who enable the pro scene. But to be honest, the only way I see that working is by increasing the number of players you mentioned.
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On October 18 2016 22:28 sh1RoKen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:12 Aocowns wrote:On October 18 2016 22:07 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player Ok. Redesign starcraft to become a buinding contest. You build your base and then judges give you points based on how smart you are. This will be FUN! On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
Indeed. But what if we make it a little bit easier so we can focus more on our opponent. Not on PvE mechanics. I want to think HOW (on what) should I spent my resources. Not HOW FAST. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
I was a C- on Iccup right before WoL came out. And BW will never ever extend starcraft fun base. It will bring back the old-school guys but it is nothing compared to what MOBAs have. Wee need casual players here. Who don't want to have 300 apm to move their 12 dragoons up on a ramp. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
I want strategy to become crucial in RT S. Not merchanics. It's not an RTM. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
I've never assumed you skill level. Please accept my apologies if you thought so. If Starcraft is not fun to a below-diamond players (And it is not fun right now. It doesn't even look like Starcraft there.), it will never become a world-wide sport. there actually just seems to be a massive disconnect between you and what SC fans and competitors enjoy and want If you enjoy it, play it. I would never try convince anyone to stop playing the game they like. But, as you can see, the game you enjoy has no future on a competitive world-wide cypersport scene due to the lack of the casual fun base. If you are OK with esportless Starcraft, I have nothing to say to you. Just play this game and I wish you nothing but gl hf. But, to survive this battle for esport viewers, Starcraft needs some serious redesign to make it more fun to casual low-level players. That is all what I am trying to say. And that is what I've said 2 years ago.
SC can never maintain its unique identity while still appealing to the massive audiences, RTS just isnt a popular genre anymore. so imo it would be ridiculous to keep alienating the already existing super loyal fanbase when they are already this pidgeonholed into the whole "super hard game for hardcore nerds that enjoy a challenge". they probably won't ever shed that image with the sc franchise, and as it is they are trying to appeal to two entirely different audiences. One audience is super interested(the people who enjoy sc for what it historically has been and to some degree still is). the other is an audience with a short attentionspan with little to no interest for RTS from the outset. I don't really think the marginal group of people who enjoy other RTS titles, just not SC-style RTS, is worth considering if you just want to talk about having a big e-peen and sponsorships
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On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact. Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors. the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable. Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene.
To be honest BW was doing fine on OGN with PL studio being filled and viewership constantly in the millions.
Its entirely Blizzard's fault for not appealing to the millions of BW fans.
Instead Blizzard want to appease the "western fans", which viewership at its height was only in the 500K.
AWFUL decision making by Blizzard.
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