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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. |
On October 18 2016 22:23 maruzest wrote:
Here's players situation
<SKT>
soO : Allude to retirement on Twitter, Facebook
Classic : Will decide his attitude soon (on Facebook)
Sorry : Retirement (on Facebook)
MyuNgSiK : Switched to Overwatch
Dark : Will continue to play SC2 next year (on Twitter Fan's account)
<KT>
Stats : Will continue to play SC2 next year (Korean Caster Canata mentioned)
<SGK>
Solar : Will continue to play SC2 next year (on Facebook)
Dark, Solar and Stats staying makes sense. They're all hugely successful atm, if there's still money left to earn in SC2 they should use the opportunity. Will be interesting to see how many others do the same.
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On October 18 2016 22:36 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact. On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors. the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable. Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene. To be honest BW was doing fine on OGN with PL studio being filled and viewership constantly in the millions. Its entirely Blizzard's fault for not appealing to the millions of BW fans. Instead Blizzard want to appease the "western fans", which viewership at its height was only in the 500K. AWFUL decision making by Blizzard.
Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money.
They charge tournament organizers for broadcasting licenses without a tear to be shed, I know 20 people that lost their jobs in 2015 as a direct result of Blizzard's new policies.
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End of an era, it's saddening but I am not surprised. On what StarCraft will become is honestly up to Blizzard now.
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On October 18 2016 22:47 Artunit wrote:
End of an era, it's saddening but I am not surprised. On what StarCraft will become is honestly up to Blizzard now.
And SSL, and GSL.
No idea what happens with SSL - but afaik GSL said they'll continune until next year.
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On October 18 2016 22:48 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:47 Artunit wrote:
End of an era, it's saddening but I am not surprised. On what StarCraft will become is honestly up to Blizzard now. And SSL, and GSL. No idea what happens with SSL - but afaik GSL said they'll continune until next year.
Yeah the Afreeca CEO announced GSL would happen next year. So far nothing for SSL, but Blizzard might pay SPOTV to still host the league next year.
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On October 18 2016 22:29 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact. I should clarify that I was talking about the pros and those who enable the pro scene. But to be honest, the only way I see that working is by increasing the number of players you mentioned.
Making a great, fun, better game is the answer^^ for me it is more important than any pro scene, though I do enjoy watching pro games. It all stems from there anyway.. it doesn't even need to be "pro" to be good (watching games). I don't think it matters too much, the money success, what matters more is the community success, doesn't need to be the most mainstream. That comes from a great game without obstruction of social features.
It doesn't need to be the most mainstream because, RTS games are hard. They take more skill than Mobas or Overwatch, let's be serious. Overwatch is a noob game compared to Quake or CS of course. Mobas are fun and take some skill and a TON of knowledge and team-building, but they have nothing on RTS in terms of skill. That is why they are mainstream, because they are just easier to play, and many people are not 100% dedicated gamers so they like to play this for various reasons, easier to win, easier to play with anybody.. A great RTS can still catch great mainstream success with team games and UMS (in terms of actually being played not watched), but overall if it is great it's not going to be the most mainstream thing, though still very successful. What JJR (prob willingly) forgets to mention is the difference of context, a lot more non dedicated people play games nowadays ("casuals"), so there is this huge population playing these very popular mass advertised easy to play games, that's cool, and we shouldn't necessarily want to do that same thing, because RTS have never been like this in truth. It's not a question of technology, it's a question of sociology. There is a mainstream population now, and there is an industry that produces mainstream games marketed towards this population. It's not the same thing as passion for the deeper better games which drove the popularity of the best games 1 or 2 decades ago. Same as with movies and stuff. There are still great movies being made, but they are not the blockbusters lol cause they aren't made to be blockbusters they are made to be great.
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I'm real sad to see an end to these teams that I've loved for so many years. With Brood War looking healthy in the absence of Proleague, I hope the scene can benefit from the new freedoms afforded to Korean pros.
But for real, I'm just real sad now.
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On October 18 2016 22:49 Koektrommel wrote:
GSTL anyone?
GSTL needs teams, too.
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On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:12 Aocowns wrote:On October 18 2016 22:07 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 sh1RoKen wrote:I bet no one could predict such an outcome. On August 05 2015 17:45 sh1RoKen wrote:
No casual players -> no viewers -> no sponsors -> no money -> no tournaments -> no progamers -> no starcraft.
More casual players -> more viewers -> more sponsors -> more money -> more tournaments -> more progamers -> more starcraft.
That is the MOBA recipe for being a successful competitive game and they (MOBAs) are beating the shit out of starcraft right now. More and more people can afford living being a MOBA progamer all over the world (not in just one country). And they are developing 10 times faster than starcraft in order to become a worldwide sport.
Meanwhile "thi bast geme evar" or "altimate brein campetition" is dying in convulsions. Top-level starcraft events have less viewers than above average MOBA player's streams with no comments.
And for those who "Will be playing hardcore starcraft no matter what because they are to smart for MOBA". Stop lying to yourself and look at warcraft 3 competitive scene. What? You can't? Why? Because there is no such thing? Well, that is exactly how "hardcore starcraft only for geniuses" will look like in 2 years. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/491777-why-lowering-the-mechanics-is-a-good-thing I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player Ok. Redesign starcraft to become a buinding contest. You build your base and then judges give you points based on how smart you are. This will be FUN! On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
Indeed. But what if we make it a little bit easier so we can focus more on our opponent. Not on PvE mechanics. I want to think HOW (on what) should I spent my resources. Not HOW FAST. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
I was a C- on Iccup right before WoL came out. And BW will never ever extend starcraft fun base. It will bring back the old-school guys but it is nothing compared to what MOBAs have. Wee need casual players here. Who don't want to have 300 apm to move their 12 dragoons up on a ramp. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
I want strategy to become crucial in RT S. Not merchanics. It's not an RTM. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
I've never assumed you skill level. Please accept my apologies if you thought so. If Starcraft is not fun to a below-diamond players (And it is not fun right now. It doesn't even look like Starcraft there.), it will never become a world-wide sport. there actually just seems to be a massive disconnect between you and what SC fans and competitors enjoy and want To be fair, there has always been this disconnect between StarCraft fans and "traditional RTS" fans. The argument of "PvE" is something I hear a lot when non-SC fans talk about SC. But I see very little point in discussing this. No RTS is in a really good shape right now in Korea. This shouldn't be a discussion about BW vs SC2 or SC2 vs other RTS. It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch. Btw - does anyone know what this means for SSL?
I don’t see why people are masturbating so much on RTS genre. You know what guys ? It has never been THAT popular in the West. BW was fucking big in Korea, agreed. But not that much in the West. Always in the shadows of others (mainly FPS at that time), and shortly after MMOs.
RTS has always been a niche, that’s all. It’s only returning to it’s rightful state. Yes, StarCraft sales were good. But how many just played campaign ? How many just never touched the 1on1 competitive side of it ? For how many people was it just about 3v3/4v4, UMS or FFA ?
During BW golden era ? Counter Strike (1.4, 1.6, Source), bigger. WoW, bigger. WC3, at least the same (bigger IMO). Diablo (II), at least the same. It’s only nostalgia for most, and for some denial and a wrong based superiority feeling that shroud your eyes.
And here is the last point that killed SC2 for me : the inexistence of UMS. I mean, that’s totally logical to some extent, that, with the exponentially increasing number of games produced, not a lot of people would bother to create and to play some modded games on an already old game engine. UMS is a very SC/WC thing. And, even tho I have no figure and am mostly speaking of subjective things, the number of player that UMS retained back in like ‘02-’08 is, IMO absolutely HUGE. Hell, UMS created some GENRE of games today. Fucking game MODS created fucking game GENRES.. Tower defence that are so popular as app games now, MOBAs, all this is just coming from BW !!
StarCraft 2 had none of that. But that’s not even anyone’s fault, it’s just how things went, with the increase of the number of players, and the number of games produced, the increased communication so that the game are more and more focused and specialized on what a fanbase of players want… SC2 cannot compete with that. But I, even if I am a fucking huge BW fan, don’t even think that BW could have competed with that.
For what it’s worth, I’m mad at Blizzard because they tried to make us think that SC2 could be big, while I am definitively convinced it never could have been. So randomly throwing money around to fund some competitions, while making the followers believe that was going to last forever, even tho it was absolutely certain that it could not go further than a couple of years… I’m mad at them for that, for false hope. For not evolving with their times, and for trying to reproduce to the letter what they did with BW on Korea, while it was (even tho maybe not at the very beginning, at least after 2-3 years) obvious that it just couldn’t be reproduced.
Then it seems that they just understood that (OW (seems likes it works, even tho I didn’t even watched it once, and probably never will)), and they are trying to evolve now (another GOAT mods J), while sweeping dust under the rag by letting dying slowly SC2, after making us believe that all was fine and that it would last forever…
I’m not sad tho, just contemplating to the future to see what will come of that. But be sure guys, if you continue to play it, SC2 won’t die. Hell, there are even competitive servers of Age of Empire II or even Age Of Mythology !!!! So why can’t SC2 survive that ?
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On October 18 2016 22:46 BreAKerTV wrote:
AWFUL decision making by Blizzard.
Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money.
Breaking news ! A publicly traded, for-profit company is for profit ! Incredible ! Huge if true !
I'm not gonna defend Blizzard for all the mistakes they've made, but running on a capitalist model of maximizing shareholder value and sales in order to offset development costs, just like EVERY other game company out there, is not one of them. This has been is one of the scene's core issues : by whining about everything we dilute the impact of otherwise legit messages.
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On October 18 2016 22:46 BreAKerTV wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:36 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact. On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors. the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable. Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene. To be honest BW was doing fine on OGN with PL studio being filled and viewership constantly in the millions. Its entirely Blizzard's fault for not appealing to the millions of BW fans. Instead Blizzard want to appease the "western fans", which viewership at its height was only in the 500K. AWFUL decision making by Blizzard. Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money. They charge tournament organizers for broadcasting licenses without a tear to be shed, I know 20 people that lost their jobs in 2015 as a direct result of Blizzard's new policies.
Please don't bash Mike Morhaime... his passion for Starcraft is huge and perhaps one of the reasons Blizzard is still putting large amounts of money into SC2. Do you think he regularly goes to watch Starcraft in Korea because he's a money grabber?
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The time to sit in the corner of the room to cry has finally arrived 
I rally hope all our beloved players will have opportunities to keep rocking, even if it does not look too good for now.
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On October 18 2016 22:46 BreAKerTV wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:36 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact. On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors. the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable. Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene. To be honest BW was doing fine on OGN with PL studio being filled and viewership constantly in the millions. Its entirely Blizzard's fault for not appealing to the millions of BW fans. Instead Blizzard want to appease the "western fans", which viewership at its height was only in the 500K. AWFUL decision making by Blizzard. Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money. They charge tournament organizers for broadcasting licenses without a tear to be shed, I know 20 people that lost their jobs in 2015 as a direct result of Blizzard's new policies.
Woah, dick move.
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On October 18 2016 22:54 MyLovelyLurker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:46 BreAKerTV wrote:
AWFUL decision making by Blizzard.
Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money. Breaking news ! A publicly traded, for-profit company is for profit ! Incredible ! Huge if true ! I'm not gonna defend Blizzard for all the mistakes they've made, but running on a capitalist model of maximizing shareholder value and sales in order to offset development costs, just like EVERY other game company out there, is not one of them. This has been is one of the scene's core issues : by whining about everything we dilute the impact of otherwise legit messages.
I sincerely doubt that they maximise shareholder value; please confer the agency theory. Also take into consideration the many other demographics of stakeholders.
I think its' an error (if nothing else) business wise. Whether or not it maximised profits; having sc2 dominate as the competitive RTS has indirect positive effects that are difficult to measure. Regardless, it's just a shame.
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I think Mike Morhaime made a selfish deal to sell out blizzard with Kotick... he calculated and devised this stuff along with him I'm sure... when I see him talk on stage at blizzcon I don't see a honest person, I see someone who's only trying to selfishly build hype and won't go into details about what makes the game actually good or not..
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Really sad news today
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Russian Federation93 Posts
On October 18 2016 22:36 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 22:12 Aocowns wrote:On October 18 2016 22:07 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player Ok. Redesign starcraft to become a buinding contest. You build your base and then judges give you points based on how smart you are. This will be FUN! On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
Indeed. But what if we make it a little bit easier so we can focus more on our opponent. Not on PvE mechanics. I want to think HOW (on what) should I spent my resources. Not HOW FAST. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
I was a C- on Iccup right before WoL came out. And BW will never ever extend starcraft fun base. It will bring back the old-school guys but it is nothing compared to what MOBAs have. Wee need casual players here. Who don't want to have 300 apm to move their 12 dragoons up on a ramp. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
I want strategy to become crucial in RT S. Not merchanics. It's not an RTM. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
I've never assumed you skill level. Please accept my apologies if you thought so. If Starcraft is not fun to a below-diamond players (And it is not fun right now. It doesn't even look like Starcraft there.), it will never become a world-wide sport. there actually just seems to be a massive disconnect between you and what SC fans and competitors enjoy and want If you enjoy it, play it. I would never try convince anyone to stop playing the game they like. But, as you can see, the game you enjoy has no future on a competitive world-wide cypersport scene due to the lack of the casual fun base. If you are OK with esportless Starcraft, I have nothing to say to you. Just play this game and I wish you nothing but gl hf. But, to survive this battle for esport viewers, Starcraft needs some serious redesign to make it more fun to casual low-level players. That is all what I am trying to say. And that is what I've said 2 years ago. SC can never maintain its unique identity while still appealing to the massive audiences, RTS just isnt a popular genre anymore.
If you think that the unique identity of Starcraft is "extremely hard mechanical building competition", than you are totally right. In that case BW HD is the key to everything.
But I don't think so. For me - Starcraft is about killing lurker with 2 marines. For me its about emp vs feedback. I think this is the unique beauty of the game I love. And IMO, we can totally have this beauty without a necessity to lose a game when you supply-blocked yourself.
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On October 18 2016 22:54 SkrollK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:On October 18 2016 22:12 Aocowns wrote:On October 18 2016 22:07 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 20:53 Hildegard wrote:I don't think imitating the Moba model is the right direction to go for today. Starcraft is unique as a game and I think the way to go in the long run is to promote that uniqueness instead of imitating. Increase the options even further with more micro potential but make the multiplayer game F2P or at least open up the option to play in Internet Cafes without having to buy the game. I think marketing the game as the hardest game ever made would actually increase the playerbase. Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses. The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me. I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player Ok. Redesign starcraft to become a buinding contest. You build your base and then judges give you points based on how smart you are. This will be FUN! On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
Indeed. But what if we make it a little bit easier so we can focus more on our opponent. Not on PvE mechanics. I want to think HOW (on what) should I spent my resources. Not HOW FAST. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
I was a C- on Iccup right before WoL came out. And BW will never ever extend starcraft fun base. It will bring back the old-school guys but it is nothing compared to what MOBAs have. Wee need casual players here. Who don't want to have 300 apm to move their 12 dragoons up on a ramp. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
I want strategy to become crucial in RT S. Not merchanics. It's not an RTM. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
I've never assumed you skill level. Please accept my apologies if you thought so. If Starcraft is not fun to a below-diamond players (And it is not fun right now. It doesn't even look like Starcraft there.), it will never become a world-wide sport. there actually just seems to be a massive disconnect between you and what SC fans and competitors enjoy and want To be fair, there has always been this disconnect between StarCraft fans and "traditional RTS" fans. The argument of "PvE" is something I hear a lot when non-SC fans talk about SC. But I see very little point in discussing this. No RTS is in a really good shape right now in Korea. This shouldn't be a discussion about BW vs SC2 or SC2 vs other RTS. It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch. Btw - does anyone know what this means for SSL? I don’t see why people are masturbating so much on RTS genre. You know what guys ? It has never been THAT popular in the West. BW was fucking big in Korea, agreed. But not that much in the West. Always in the shadows of others (mainly FPS at that time), and shortly after MMOs. RTS has always been a niche, that’s all. It’s only returning to it’s rightful state. Yes, StarCraft sales were good. But how many just played campaign ? How many just never touched the 1on1 competitive side of it ? For how many people was it just about 3v3/4v4, UMS or FFA ? (snip)
Look, I know what point you're trying to make. And I agree to some extent. But there's no need to lash out like that.
We're not saying "SC2/BW should dominate everything!!". People are just afraid to see their favourite games gone for good. Korean StarCraft, if BW or SC2, has been part of our lives for a long time.
Seeing it gone would be soul-crushing.
But as I said, I completely agree that it shouldn't be at the expense of the people involved. If pro players and the ones behind them can't make a proper living, then it's better to "downsize" than to try and keep it up on life support.
If there can be a solution that creates a healthy environment without life support, well then thats what we can hope for, right?
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On October 18 2016 22:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 22:46 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:36 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact. On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors. the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable. Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene. To be honest BW was doing fine on OGN with PL studio being filled and viewership constantly in the millions. Its entirely Blizzard's fault for not appealing to the millions of BW fans. Instead Blizzard want to appease the "western fans", which viewership at its height was only in the 500K. AWFUL decision making by Blizzard. Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money. They charge tournament organizers for broadcasting licenses without a tear to be shed, I know 20 people that lost their jobs in 2015 as a direct result of Blizzard's new policies. Please don't bash Mike Morhaime... his passion for Starcraft is huge and perhaps one of the reasons Blizzard is still putting large amounts of money into SC2. Do you think he regularly goes to watch Starcraft in Korea because he's a money grabber?
Um, well, yes. Blizzard now charges tournament organizers tens of thousands of dollars for what should be, effectively speaking, free advertising of their game as a platform of competition. I don't care how nicely they ask tournament organizers this question, I personally find it is a disgusting prerogative to charge fees that could be equal to 1 month's labor fees for 15 staff (at a conservative rate).
I personally want Blizzard to stop using the term "e-Sports" to advertise their games if they are going to charge tournament organizers for licenses when they can already make money from micro-transactions, and pretend it isn't their fault that pro gamers have no jobs. Spalding isn't going to charge ESPN for using a basketball of their brand in a college ball game.
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