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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. |
On October 18 2016 23:41 ZiggyPG wrote:
What about SpoTV's plans to continue SSL?
Nothing announced AFAIK
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On October 18 2016 23:36 True_Spike wrote:
I'll never get why some people decide what to play / watch based on the popularity of the game. LoL is played by WAY more people than any other game out there (probably a good portion of them combined) and I can't stand playing or watching it. I simply don't care, but I'm happy for the people who do enjoy it - it does not affect me whatsoever. As long as there's a healthy player base in SC / SC2 I'm fine (and a buttload of people still play the game, it's super healthy). Would I want SC2 to be the biggest e-sport ever? Sure, more fun for me. Does it affect me if it's not topping all the charts (but still doing good)? No.
I never understood that phenomenon either. People just have an inherent need to fit in a group it seems
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On October 18 2016 23:17 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 23:01 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 22:36 Aocowns wrote:On October 18 2016 22:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 22:12 Aocowns wrote:On October 18 2016 22:07 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:28 sh1RoKen wrote:On October 18 2016 21:13 Aegwynn wrote:On October 18 2016 21:06 sh1RoKen wrote:
[quote]
Spending 90% of your in-game time to fight PvE macro mechanics is really unique. And FUN! Let's promote this to 100%. First player who's production will be resting for more than 1 second instantly loses.
The game should be as hard as your opponent makes it to you. Not workers-> pylons-> production-> workers-> production-> pylons-> expanding-> production -> pylons -> upgrades -> 4 second fight. I want to lose to my opponent who made me to lose with his micro and tactical moves. Not because he is building pylons better than me.
I wanna lose because my opponent places pylons better than me. Not because his micro. Well, if you are below Diamon league, that is what Starcraft is about there. Go play it right now. But, as you can see, nobody likes it as much as you do. So, after some time, you will end up alone there. I am sorry i had to do that to show how idiotic your post was -Building placement is a part of strategy, if he places his buildings better than you that means he is the smarter player Ok. Redesign starcraft to become a buinding contest. You build your base and then judges give you points based on how smart you are. This will be FUN! On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Spending resources is the most crucial part of any rts game
Indeed. But what if we make it a little bit easier so we can focus more on our opponent. Not on PvE mechanics. I want to think HOW (on what) should I spent my resources. Not HOW FAST. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-Macro mechanics were as heavy as this in BW as well, you probably didn't play that one because i see that you don't even know fundamentals of SC
I was a C- on Iccup right before WoL came out. And BW will never ever extend starcraft fun base. It will bring back the old-school guys but it is nothing compared to what MOBAs have. Wee need casual players here. Who don't want to have 300 apm to move their 12 dragoons up on a ramp. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-If you wanna only micro and position then RTS is not your genre
I want strategy to become crucial in RT S. Not merchanics. It's not an RTM. On October 18 2016 21:40 Aegwynn wrote:
-I am over diamond my dear don't worry, and i know what starcraft is about.
I've never assumed you skill level. Please accept my apologies if you thought so. If Starcraft is not fun to a below-diamond players (And it is not fun right now. It doesn't even look like Starcraft there.), it will never become a world-wide sport. there actually just seems to be a massive disconnect between you and what SC fans and competitors enjoy and want If you enjoy it, play it. I would never try convince anyone to stop playing the game they like. But, as you can see, the game you enjoy has no future on a competitive world-wide cypersport scene due to the lack of the casual fun base. If you are OK with esportless Starcraft, I have nothing to say to you. Just play this game and I wish you nothing but gl hf. But, to survive this battle for esport viewers, Starcraft needs some serious redesign to make it more fun to casual low-level players. That is all what I am trying to say. And that is what I've said 2 years ago. SC can never maintain its unique identity while still appealing to the massive audiences, RTS just isnt a popular genre anymore. If you think that the unique identity of Starcraft is "extremely hard mechanical building competition", than you are totally right. In that case BW HD is the key to everything. But I don't think so. For me - Starcraft is about killing lurker with 2 marines. For me its about emp vs feedback. I think this is the unique beauty of the game I love. And IMO, we can totally have this beauty without a necessity to lose a game when you supply-blocked yourself. The beauty of the game for me is being able to do these micro-tricks, AND at the same time continue to grow your economy, spread yourself on the map and execute your gameplan. I really don't care that much about single-focused moba-like micro battles, but what is beautiful is doing it all in " Real Time". I also think that the ideal RTS would appeal to a lot of people, it's not like it's a genre doomed to fail from the start. For me the missing part in Starcraft 2 isn't that mechanics are overwheming. It's that it just isn't that Strategic in the end. Making the game easier mechanically wouldn't change that, it still would be pretty shallow as far as strategy is concerned.
I think giving more micro options would allow for decisions between focussing more on micro or macro. Styles of players would differ more than they do now. This is definitely something BW does better, while other things like auto-mining or less highground-rng is better in SC2. I also miss the production tab when watching SC-BW (and I always wanted that when I watched downloaded BW vods).
I'm no expert but would you say that more micro potential would remove the need for something like Photon Overcharge because micro would allow to hold early pushes better like in BW? In my humble opinion the game could be improved, but the big point is not the game mechanics but the ease of access. RTS will always be a niche game (in the sense of Chess and Go being niche games compared to football or tennis) but with internet connections becoming better maybe an international ladder will be something we see in 10-15 years and with the whole world being able to play the playerbase should be big enough to sustain the game.
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To be honest this may be the nail in the coffin for me to stop following SC2, so sad  , unfortunately I never cared for the foreign scene and still don't feel like doing it
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why does everyone say "its over"?
How is proleague/kespa teams so vital for the rest of the scene?
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On October 18 2016 23:34 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 23:33 Thax wrote:On October 18 2016 23:20 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On October 18 2016 23:13 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On October 18 2016 22:46 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:36 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact. On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors. the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable. Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene. To be honest BW was doing fine on OGN with PL studio being filled and viewership constantly in the millions. Its entirely Blizzard's fault for not appealing to the millions of BW fans. Instead Blizzard want to appease the "western fans", which viewership at its height was only in the 500K. AWFUL decision making by Blizzard. Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money. They charge tournament organizers for broadcasting licenses without a tear to be shed, I know 20 people that lost their jobs in 2015 as a direct result of Blizzard's new policies. Please don't bash Mike Morhaime... his passion for Starcraft is huge and perhaps one of the reasons Blizzard is still putting large amounts of money into SC2. Do you think he regularly goes to watch Starcraft in Korea because he's a money grabber? Um, well, yes. Blizzard now charges tournament organizers tens of thousands of dollars for what is, effectively speaking, free advertising of their game as a platform of competition. I don't care how nicely they ask tournament organizers this question, I personally find it is a disgusting prerogative to charge fees that could be equal to 1 month's labor fees for 15 staff (at a conservative rate). I personally want Blizzard to stop using the term "e-Sports" to advertise their games if they are going to charge tournament organizers for licenses when they can already make money from micro-transactions. Spalding isn't going to charge ESPN for using a basketball of their brand in a college ball game. Exactly. Imo, company "property" should never go further than like, checking every computer that runs the game in a publicly broadcast competition has a copy of the game bought for it or something... it doesn't even need to do that! definitely don't require people to have a separate account key tied to a freaking server... and then declare all user content property of the company.. lol what people make with the game is up to them they are free to do it and then free to show it or whatever with it, its theirs, replays, maps, matches, tourneys.. lan/offline modes, etc, what has been lost to this greed and I wish we recover note: I have nothing against company organizing tourneys themselves, however preventing others from running tourneys for free is theft and an attack on community Tell that to FIFA. Since when does FIFA own the "rights" to football? I can go and make a football tourney any time I want.
with your friends in your backyard yes, np.
If you want to play with actual clubs (even if amateur) play on real football field, want the player have a real insurance during the event or have a real referee, then you have to get to your local soccer league, which is dependant on the regional league, which is dependant of your national league, which is dependant on your continental league, which obeys to FIFA.
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On October 18 2016 23:49 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
why does everyone say "its over"?
Because people feel satisfaction when they feel right about things maybe
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On October 18 2016 23:33 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 23:20 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On October 18 2016 23:13 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On October 18 2016 22:46 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:36 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact. On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors. the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable. Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene. To be honest BW was doing fine on OGN with PL studio being filled and viewership constantly in the millions. Its entirely Blizzard's fault for not appealing to the millions of BW fans. Instead Blizzard want to appease the "western fans", which viewership at its height was only in the 500K. AWFUL decision making by Blizzard. Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money. They charge tournament organizers for broadcasting licenses without a tear to be shed, I know 20 people that lost their jobs in 2015 as a direct result of Blizzard's new policies. Please don't bash Mike Morhaime... his passion for Starcraft is huge and perhaps one of the reasons Blizzard is still putting large amounts of money into SC2. Do you think he regularly goes to watch Starcraft in Korea because he's a money grabber? Um, well, yes. Blizzard now charges tournament organizers tens of thousands of dollars for what is, effectively speaking, free advertising of their game as a platform of competition. I don't care how nicely they ask tournament organizers this question, I personally find it is a disgusting prerogative to charge fees that could be equal to 1 month's labor fees for 15 staff (at a conservative rate). I personally want Blizzard to stop using the term "e-Sports" to advertise their games if they are going to charge tournament organizers for licenses when they can already make money from micro-transactions. Spalding isn't going to charge ESPN for using a basketball of their brand in a college ball game. Exactly. Imo, company "property" should never go further than like, checking every computer that runs the game in a publicly broadcast competition has a copy of the game bought for it or something... it doesn't even need to do that! definitely don't require people to have a separate account key tied to a freaking server... and then declare all user content property of the company.. lol what people make with the game is up to them they are free to do it and then free to show it or whatever with it, its theirs, replays, maps, matches, tourneys.. lan/offline modes, etc, what has been lost to this greed and I wish we recover note: I have nothing against company organizing tourneys themselves, however preventing others from running tourneys for free is theft and an attack on community Tell that to FIFA.
Saying that is an erroneous statement by all means. FIFA can't stop Johnny and his classmates from playing soccer, recording a video of themselves playing soccer, and putting the video on youtube. Blizzard can do this with any game that they want at any time that they want.
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On October 18 2016 23:36 True_Spike wrote:
I'll never get why some people decide what to play / watch based on the popularity of the game. LoL is played by WAY more people than any other game out there (probably a good portion of them combined) and I can't stand playing or watching it. I simply don't care, but I'm happy for the people who do enjoy it - it does not affect me whatsoever. As long as there's a healthy player base in SC / SC2 I'm fine (and a buttload of people still play the game, it's super healthy). Would I want SC2 to be the biggest e-sport ever? Sure, more fun for me. Does it affect me if it's not topping all the charts (but still doing good)? No.
I think its quite simple. Trying to emulate pro strategies its partially what makes the game fun.
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Is this really end of SC2? 2010-2016 RIP?
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The term "Nothing lasts forever" couldn't possibly be more true. The game is slowly dying. Nuff' said
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On October 18 2016 23:53 outscar wrote:
Is this really end of SC2? 2010-2016 RIP?
No, it's not. What happens now is up to Blizzard
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On October 18 2016 23:34 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 23:33 Thax wrote:On October 18 2016 23:20 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On October 18 2016 23:13 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On October 18 2016 22:46 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:36 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact. On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors. the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable. Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene. To be honest BW was doing fine on OGN with PL studio being filled and viewership constantly in the millions. Its entirely Blizzard's fault for not appealing to the millions of BW fans. Instead Blizzard want to appease the "western fans", which viewership at its height was only in the 500K. AWFUL decision making by Blizzard. Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money. They charge tournament organizers for broadcasting licenses without a tear to be shed, I know 20 people that lost their jobs in 2015 as a direct result of Blizzard's new policies. Please don't bash Mike Morhaime... his passion for Starcraft is huge and perhaps one of the reasons Blizzard is still putting large amounts of money into SC2. Do you think he regularly goes to watch Starcraft in Korea because he's a money grabber? Um, well, yes. Blizzard now charges tournament organizers tens of thousands of dollars for what is, effectively speaking, free advertising of their game as a platform of competition. I don't care how nicely they ask tournament organizers this question, I personally find it is a disgusting prerogative to charge fees that could be equal to 1 month's labor fees for 15 staff (at a conservative rate). I personally want Blizzard to stop using the term "e-Sports" to advertise their games if they are going to charge tournament organizers for licenses when they can already make money from micro-transactions. Spalding isn't going to charge ESPN for using a basketball of their brand in a college ball game. Exactly. Imo, company "property" should never go further than like, checking every computer that runs the game in a publicly broadcast competition has a copy of the game bought for it or something... it doesn't even need to do that! definitely don't require people to have a separate account key tied to a freaking server... and then declare all user content property of the company.. lol what people make with the game is up to them they are free to do it and then free to show it or whatever with it, its theirs, replays, maps, matches, tourneys.. lan/offline modes, etc, what has been lost to this greed and I wish we recover note: I have nothing against company organizing tourneys themselves, however preventing others from running tourneys for free is theft and an attack on community Tell that to FIFA. Since when does FIFA own the "rights" to football? I can go and make a football tourney any time I want.
No you can't unless you've got a football field in your yard that isn't owned by a FIFA-sub-association.
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On October 18 2016 23:49 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:
why does everyone say "its over"?
How is proleague/kespa teams so vital for the rest of the scene?
Aside from the fact it's a huge event that disappears, all the PL players were being paid by their teams. Suddenly there is no much money left for them, and they need to eat and live. Given the amount of tournament in Korea and the money they give, a lot of player will mostly have to choose between : streaming (maybe BW cause it has more viewers) switching games (like myungsik) or simply retiring.
If it ever takes place next year's code A will feel empty...
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On October 18 2016 23:34 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 23:33 Thax wrote:On October 18 2016 23:20 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On October 18 2016 23:13 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On October 18 2016 22:46 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:36 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 18 2016 22:15 KeksX wrote:
It should be about how RTS can survive between giants like League Of Legends and Overwatch.
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc. what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact. On October 18 2016 22:23 Thax wrote:
If you're looking for people to blame for this, blame Life and his cohorts. That matchfixing scandal was toxic for the attraction of sponsors. the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable. Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene. To be honest BW was doing fine on OGN with PL studio being filled and viewership constantly in the millions. Its entirely Blizzard's fault for not appealing to the millions of BW fans. Instead Blizzard want to appease the "western fans", which viewership at its height was only in the 500K. AWFUL decision making by Blizzard. Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money. They charge tournament organizers for broadcasting licenses without a tear to be shed, I know 20 people that lost their jobs in 2015 as a direct result of Blizzard's new policies. Please don't bash Mike Morhaime... his passion for Starcraft is huge and perhaps one of the reasons Blizzard is still putting large amounts of money into SC2. Do you think he regularly goes to watch Starcraft in Korea because he's a money grabber? Um, well, yes. Blizzard now charges tournament organizers tens of thousands of dollars for what is, effectively speaking, free advertising of their game as a platform of competition. I don't care how nicely they ask tournament organizers this question, I personally find it is a disgusting prerogative to charge fees that could be equal to 1 month's labor fees for 15 staff (at a conservative rate). I personally want Blizzard to stop using the term "e-Sports" to advertise their games if they are going to charge tournament organizers for licenses when they can already make money from micro-transactions. Spalding isn't going to charge ESPN for using a basketball of their brand in a college ball game. Exactly. Imo, company "property" should never go further than like, checking every computer that runs the game in a publicly broadcast competition has a copy of the game bought for it or something... it doesn't even need to do that! definitely don't require people to have a separate account key tied to a freaking server... and then declare all user content property of the company.. lol what people make with the game is up to them they are free to do it and then free to show it or whatever with it, its theirs, replays, maps, matches, tourneys.. lan/offline modes, etc, what has been lost to this greed and I wish we recover note: I have nothing against company organizing tourneys themselves, however preventing others from running tourneys for free is theft and an attack on community Tell that to FIFA. Since when does FIFA own the "rights" to football? I can go and make a football tourney any time I want.
Yea, if you just want to get a bunch of amateurs together for a bit of fun sure. You can do a SC2 tournament any time you want too, like that. Just depends on how you want to monetize it.
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On October 18 2016 23:53 Tiaraju9 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 23:36 True_Spike wrote:
I'll never get why some people decide what to play / watch based on the popularity of the game. LoL is played by WAY more people than any other game out there (probably a good portion of them combined) and I can't stand playing or watching it. I simply don't care, but I'm happy for the people who do enjoy it - it does not affect me whatsoever. As long as there's a healthy player base in SC / SC2 I'm fine (and a buttload of people still play the game, it's super healthy). Would I want SC2 to be the biggest e-sport ever? Sure, more fun for me. Does it affect me if it's not topping all the charts (but still doing good)? No. I think its quite simple. Trying to emulate pro strategies its partially what makes the game fun.
And you need the game to be the biggest esport on the planet to be able to do that? Or do people somehow think there won't be any progamers anymore now?
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On October 19 2016 00:00 True_Spike wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 23:53 Tiaraju9 wrote:On October 18 2016 23:36 True_Spike wrote:
I'll never get why some people decide what to play / watch based on the popularity of the game. LoL is played by WAY more people than any other game out there (probably a good portion of them combined) and I can't stand playing or watching it. I simply don't care, but I'm happy for the people who do enjoy it - it does not affect me whatsoever. As long as there's a healthy player base in SC / SC2 I'm fine (and a buttload of people still play the game, it's super healthy). Would I want SC2 to be the biggest e-sport ever? Sure, more fun for me. Does it affect me if it's not topping all the charts (but still doing good)? No. I think its quite simple. Trying to emulate pro strategies its partially what makes the game fun. And you need the game to be the biggest esport on the planet to be able to do that? Or do people somehow think there won't be any progamers anymore now?
its the apocalypse what are you talking about
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Thanks for everything, we will miss you.
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EPT
