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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. |
Why aren't we allowed to discuss Welfare Champion Series? How did that decision not have a profound impact on this KeSPA decision? Why must Liquid be pro Welfare regardless of the damage it does to SC2?
User was warned for this post
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On October 19 2016 00:47 Beelzebub1 wrote:
What sucks the most out of this is that the foreign scene has never gripped me like the PL level of play does.
Don't get me wrong, Nerchio/Snute/Harstem/Marinelord are all fantastic players but idk, I don't feel like I can just watch them forever.
I know this is probably frowned upon, but 9K games later, 5 Master league promotions, and a shit load of practice time sunk in, I think that Starcraft 2 might actually be a dead game now for whatever reasons besides MOBA's stealing the lime light.
Exactly, what keeps ppl from leaving it, is the enormous amount of time and nerves invested already. But why would somebody do such a thing when there was already a game worth investing, a better one and it's a god damn fact to anyone who understands what a good RTS is? So many people were fooled into believing a dream that never was, this is a sad story and a bitter lesson.
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On October 19 2016 00:34 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 23:50 Gwavajuice wrote:On October 18 2016 23:34 opisska wrote:On October 18 2016 23:33 Thax wrote:On October 18 2016 23:20 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On October 18 2016 23:13 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On October 18 2016 22:46 BreAKerTV wrote:On October 18 2016 22:36 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 18 2016 22:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
[quote]
RTS will "survive"... it will continue its decline. the state of technology gives consumers choices that make RTS a narrow niche. the precise state of technology from 1994 to ~2002 made RTS a mainstream genre. technology got better giving mainstream players more choices and that mainstream moved on to MOBAs, TF2, Overwatch, etc.
what is going on is bad for people who are trying to make money off of SC2. For people who fire up the client and play Co-Op, Competitive multiplayer and 3player versus 3 AI games this has little impact.
[quote]
the state of technology gave mainstream consumers more choices. RTS got choiced out of the market with more team oriented games. the mainstream market found low latency 10 player games more and more viable the last 20 years. Every year internet connectivity gets better making team games more and more viable.
Life was looking for 1 last big payday in a declining scene. To be honest BW was doing fine on OGN with PL studio being filled and viewership constantly in the millions. Its entirely Blizzard's fault for not appealing to the millions of BW fans. Instead Blizzard want to appease the "western fans", which viewership at its height was only in the 500K. AWFUL decision making by Blizzard. Very well said. Do you guys think Mike Morhaime is feeling remorseful with a yearly salary that is nearly 10 million USD? This is information you guys can Google search. It just feels like Blizzard is only looking to make themselves money. They charge tournament organizers for broadcasting licenses without a tear to be shed, I know 20 people that lost their jobs in 2015 as a direct result of Blizzard's new policies. Please don't bash Mike Morhaime... his passion for Starcraft is huge and perhaps one of the reasons Blizzard is still putting large amounts of money into SC2. Do you think he regularly goes to watch Starcraft in Korea because he's a money grabber? Um, well, yes. Blizzard now charges tournament organizers tens of thousands of dollars for what is, effectively speaking, free advertising of their game as a platform of competition. I don't care how nicely they ask tournament organizers this question, I personally find it is a disgusting prerogative to charge fees that could be equal to 1 month's labor fees for 15 staff (at a conservative rate). I personally want Blizzard to stop using the term "e-Sports" to advertise their games if they are going to charge tournament organizers for licenses when they can already make money from micro-transactions. Spalding isn't going to charge ESPN for using a basketball of their brand in a college ball game. Exactly. Imo, company "property" should never go further than like, checking every computer that runs the game in a publicly broadcast competition has a copy of the game bought for it or something... it doesn't even need to do that! definitely don't require people to have a separate account key tied to a freaking server... and then declare all user content property of the company.. lol what people make with the game is up to them they are free to do it and then free to show it or whatever with it, its theirs, replays, maps, matches, tourneys.. lan/offline modes, etc, what has been lost to this greed and I wish we recover note: I have nothing against company organizing tourneys themselves, however preventing others from running tourneys for free is theft and an attack on community Tell that to FIFA. Since when does FIFA own the "rights" to football? I can go and make a football tourney any time I want. with your friends in your backyard yes, np. If you want to play with actual clubs (even if amateur) play on real football field, want the player have a real insurance during the event or have a real referee, then you have to get to your local soccer league, which is dependant on the regional league, which is dependant of your national league, which is dependant on your continental league, which obeys to FIFA. Strange then because all I need here is to contact the manager of the other amateur team, rent a field or having my own , pay the amateur (licensed) referees and thats all, you can see the soccer fields filled it up every sunday with amateur teams, and not a single one ask a permission from FIFA.
Amateur teams are members of the national FA which fall under FIFA in the end. You can create your own league and FA if you find enough members but in practise this does not happen.
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Now that the initial shock is over, I start to feel a bitterness towards Blizzard. The way they have fucked up is a bit annoying and to be honest it is quite hard to believe. The features of patch 3.7 should have been released years ago. They never listened to the community. And on top of that, they worked hard to kill the korean BW scene so that everybody would play SC2.
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On October 19 2016 00:48 letian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 20:52 petro1987 wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On October 18 2016 20:07 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 19:48 Glioburd wrote:On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:It appears SC2 Proleague is coming to an end. The league ran from 2005-2016. Why did you include BW Proleague and call it a "league"? Because it was a league. On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:
This is not correct since BW PL ended long ago and has nothing to do with SC2 PL. The common point between BW PL and SC2 PL is : the proleague. Should we include other sport leagues as well, because they are leagues? The common point between SC2 PL and SMITE league is: the proleague. Clearly, both games share the same universe and progamers to some extend but that's it. No, this looks like an attempt to drag BW into this and I don't like it, because SC2 was the reason why BW PL ended. true, with the attempt of storytelling that SC2 was itself just "Starcraft", the same thing, and all should move on forcibly with lawsuit + pouring money on a game nobody knew what it was really worth ;; never mentioning BW as also still being Starcraft, the present and future of Starcraft was now SC2, and BW the past. A corporate attack (by activision) on a community, fanbase, professional scene and should I say RTS game design for its own 100% self centered profit. Not to mention Dustin Browder (many people seem to forget about him now) actually saying: "If you like BW, go play BW!" whenever anyone tried to point a design issue. I guess forcing Korea to transition to SC2 wasn't a great idea afterall, right? It didn't even make sense considering the playerbase of both games. Has SC2 ever reached 1% in those game metrics sites? It's just a shame this happened and now we have no proleague anymore. Yet, I see people here blaming everything else, but the game design. The zealous apologists should really take a time to reflect if blindly defending every poor design decision in the game was a good idea. It was clear from the beginning, but we all tried to be polite and positive, now here you have it, 90% of all talented pro players returned to BW and continue their work on what's left of the game. BW PL scene was destroyed and now we have only old veterans who will play it for how long, 2-3 years more? Without PL and proper tournament there won't be new players and no future. I consider SC2 a big failure, failure which was foreseen by many long ago to prove them right only today, the worst thing is that before collapsing itself, everything was done to first bury its direct competitor, all for profit and you can think whatever you want but this is not right, this is evil in its pure form. The irony is that both games could happily coexist if not for sick corporate ambition to make more money out of Starcraft legacy.
Let's save words like evil for things that actually deserve it but yeah, in the spectrum from bw clone to reinvent the wheel they clearly went too far to the reinvent side and stubbornly kept (keep) doing it while it should've been clear to them it was the wrong thing to do.
And although calling it evil would be too much, in the beginning they made some really consumer unfriendly decisions as well.
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On October 18 2016 21:30 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 20:07 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 19:48 Glioburd wrote:On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:It appears SC2 Proleague is coming to an end. The league ran from 2005-2016. Why did you include BW Proleague and call it a "league"? Because it was a league. On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:
This is not correct since BW PL ended long ago and has nothing to do with SC2 PL. The common point between BW PL and SC2 PL is : the proleague. Should we include other sport leagues as well, because they are leagues? The common point between SC2 PL and SMITE league is: the proleague. Clearly, both games share the same universe and progamers to some extend but that's it. No, this looks like an attempt to drag BW into this and I don't like it, because SC2 was the reason why BW PL ended. Brood War SPL Hybrid SPL YES IT HAPPENED ! SC2 SPL. Like the Proleague is THE ONLY league that didn't get discontinued... It's the only league that got a transition. A bad one but hey.
but hey, you got a game that nobody wants to play anymore and also you got another game whose scene could be alive and kicking.
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Whats it say when TL has to preface this announcement with the statement they made? The very posts theyre worried about have been overshadowed by their very own concerns. But ProLeague being discontinued is bad news for all of us, as the format & event has treated us to some amazing games. I would like to see an International Team League of sorts & hopefully a few of the pillars of SC2 can help make that happen.
The writing was on the wall with this one but still sad to see it go.
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On October 18 2016 23:28 SNSeigifried wrote:
soO not retiring and we get soO stream :D!!!
A streaming soO? This could be amazing at least.
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On October 19 2016 01:01 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Why aren't we allowed to discuss Welfare Champion Series? How did that decision not have a profound impact on this KeSPA decision? Why must Liquid be pro Welfare regardless of the damage it does to SC2?
It doesn't say you're not allowed to discuss it, but the fact that your mind equated "bashing" and "discussing" probably means you shouldn't go there.
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On October 19 2016 01:16 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 01:01 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Why aren't we allowed to discuss Welfare Champion Series? How did that decision not have a profound impact on this KeSPA decision? Why must Liquid be pro Welfare regardless of the damage it does to SC2? It doesn't say you're not allowed to discuss it, but the fact that your mind equated "bashing" and "discussing" probably means you shouldn't go there.
"You shouldn't discuss WCS here, if you feel the need to complete the W to Welfare" should be a good rule of thumb for people to understand 
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On October 18 2016 22:05 Aquila Magna wrote:Well, this certainly hurts. I wish the best for all the players. However, on second thought: Why should my love for this game be impacted by this? I can continue playing and watching it. Sure, we won't have Proleague entertainment anymore and arguably will lose some professional Korean players to other games. But it is due to a business decision. It's not like nobody in Korea wanted SCII suddenly. Let time continue the story of the scene! Also, a thought on all the "dead game" comments: What's their point? A game can be alive from an individuals point of view in many ways. As long as I personally enjoy it, it is alive - and even more so if others share that attitude, which arguably with SCII still is the case. Let's hope Blizzcon will be a blast and bring better news soon!
Yes, that's totally fine if ppl like it and play it. Hell, I can always find AOE2 stream on twitch, there are many ppl who still enjoy the game. Same will be with SC2, some ppl will continue playing it. It is the fact that Blizzard buried Korean BW scene to get more of your cash as a result which saddens. Reinventing a wheel is always a bad idea but it is still worth when its paid well.
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On the bright side there's no way blizzard will keep the region-lock now so at least foreign tournaments will be worth watching again. Also gsl will still be around.
This is not the end of sc2 yet even though it's a huge blow.
There might still be 1-2 years left for the scene.
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On October 19 2016 01:20 Charoisaur wrote:
On the bright side there's no way blizzard will keep the region-lock
Well let's see. :D
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On October 19 2016 01:01 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Why aren't we allowed to discuss Welfare Champion Series? How did that decision not have a profound impact on this KeSPA decision? Why must Liquid be pro Welfare regardless of the damage it does to SC2?
Because it didn't that much
Do you not understand that KOREAN sponsors looking for KOREAN audience to advertise to have little interest in global advertisement if they don't have any global presence/assets?
Sc2 interest was dwindling with all the new more popular releases. Hell, BW has more than 3 times the player than sc2 even now. Bw has more viewers on afreeca than sc2 will dream of. Sc2 never hit top 15. Bw consistently is top 5 pc bang behind overwatch, league, fifa online 3 (FO3 being casual b8)
Combine that with matchfixing scandal and very low vieweeship, it makes absolutely 0 sense to continue on. Probably with matchfixing scandal, kespa teams decided to be done for good
Welfare league only affects those who are looking to make extra bucks. The individuals.
Do you not realize this? Stop the shitposting.
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I wonder where we'd be now if Blizzard cooperated with KeSPA in 2010 instead of going with their aggressive approach.
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On October 19 2016 00:50 Cashling wrote:
what the fuck am i supposed to do now ?
Wait for StarCraft 3. Life must continue. There is many good games to watch, like Counter Strike, DotA2, LoL, Overwatch...
+ Show Spoiler + yes, that's sarcasm. A cruel one. I remember reading the same in BW PL threads when it was collapsing.
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I quit SC2 with LotV, because the game was not fun at all for me anymore. Yet this news make me quite sad, as I really loved playing SC2 in WoL. I wish I could go back to 2010, do my 50 practice games with rocks and watch IdrA make me switch to Zerg at IEM.
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On October 19 2016 01:09 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 00:48 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 20:52 petro1987 wrote:On October 18 2016 20:41 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On October 18 2016 20:07 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 19:48 Glioburd wrote:On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:It appears SC2 Proleague is coming to an end. The league ran from 2005-2016. Why did you include BW Proleague and call it a "league"? Because it was a league. On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:
This is not correct since BW PL ended long ago and has nothing to do with SC2 PL. The common point between BW PL and SC2 PL is : the proleague. Should we include other sport leagues as well, because they are leagues? The common point between SC2 PL and SMITE league is: the proleague. Clearly, both games share the same universe and progamers to some extend but that's it. No, this looks like an attempt to drag BW into this and I don't like it, because SC2 was the reason why BW PL ended. true, with the attempt of storytelling that SC2 was itself just "Starcraft", the same thing, and all should move on forcibly with lawsuit + pouring money on a game nobody knew what it was really worth ;; never mentioning BW as also still being Starcraft, the present and future of Starcraft was now SC2, and BW the past. A corporate attack (by activision) on a community, fanbase, professional scene and should I say RTS game design for its own 100% self centered profit. Not to mention Dustin Browder (many people seem to forget about him now) actually saying: "If you like BW, go play BW!" whenever anyone tried to point a design issue. I guess forcing Korea to transition to SC2 wasn't a great idea afterall, right? It didn't even make sense considering the playerbase of both games. Has SC2 ever reached 1% in those game metrics sites? It's just a shame this happened and now we have no proleague anymore. Yet, I see people here blaming everything else, but the game design. The zealous apologists should really take a time to reflect if blindly defending every poor design decision in the game was a good idea. It was clear from the beginning, but we all tried to be polite and positive, now here you have it, 90% of all talented pro players returned to BW and continue their work on what's left of the game. BW PL scene was destroyed and now we have only old veterans who will play it for how long, 2-3 years more? Without PL and proper tournament there won't be new players and no future. I consider SC2 a big failure, failure which was foreseen by many long ago to prove them right only today, the worst thing is that before collapsing itself, everything was done to first bury its direct competitor, all for profit and you can think whatever you want but this is not right, this is evil in its pure form. The irony is that both games could happily coexist if not for sick corporate ambition to make more money out of Starcraft legacy. Let's save words like evil for things that actually deserve it but yeah, in the spectrum from bw clone to reinvent the wheel they clearly went too far to the reinvent side and stubbornly kept (keep) doing it while it should've been clear to them it was the wrong thing to do. And although calling it evil would be too much, in the beginning they made some really consumer unfriendly decisions as well.
This is my humble opinion only. Some politically correct people are free to call it unfortunate circumstances or sad news. Some optimists are free to indulge themselves into all kinds of perspectives on keeping the western scene alive. I personally see no prerequisites.
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EPT
