EPTTempest rushing is a huge issue on the testmap - Page 5
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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Raineeb
Philippines39 Posts
On October 08 2016 22:03 Aegwynn wrote: I don't know if its impossible to hold or not, i just hate this kind of stupid skills, how do they come up with these idea? seriously? What is it needed for? Protoss is already the race with most aoe. Remember the story of Starcraft? Protoss is supposed to appear the strongest and most advanced race. That's why they have these flashy abilities. In multiplayer this is toned down in such a way that Terrans and Zergs can counter. Otherwise Starcraft will be just like Red Alert (dead game) where you expect all units to have the same abilities. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
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Luolis
Finland7196 Posts
On October 09 2016 12:29 parkufarku wrote: Then try building a different infrastructure path? My god, you Terrans will never change. Instead of adapting or trying new strategies, you whine until other races get nerfed to the ground. Good job, no wonder SC2 is dying since your real option of being a successful gamer is being a Terran player. User was warned for this post Funny thing about this post is that the only way to be competitive as a terran is to be Korean :> | ||
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Raineeb
Philippines39 Posts
On October 11 2016 13:57 hiroshOne wrote: Also protoss units as the most powerful supposed to be the most expensive. But in LOTV economy is not an issue for Protoss as on 2-3 bases he can afford anything he want. Also he may not make lots of units to defend as he is perfectly safe with ms core and pylons so he can rush easily to this high tech expensive units. As u see the idea was disturbed by wrongg design decisions In my Protoss ladder experience Terrans easily snipe the pylon shooting the overcharge so I need a handful of units to go with it. Also it was not emphasized in this thread that the Tempest Air to Ground weapon range was reduced from 15 to 6. It is now almost the same range as the Oracle. I hesitate doing the early tempest and use the Disruption sphere because a well placed turret and 5-6 marines can easily snipe it and I will be behind in economy for investing in such an expensive unit (and now w/ more supply count). Bottomline is, Tempests will still need a compliment of ground units to be truly effective. The Terran scans should easily scout the Stargate and Fleet Beacon so they can produce more marines and/or Vikings | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3553 Posts
If you know it's coming there's no way it's worse than normal Tempests, let alone Widow Mines and Liberators in your mineral line. Pretty sure this is just a post to try and get a nerf in on Protoss, since DKim already mentioned it. | ||
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FoxDog
170 Posts
On October 11 2016 18:09 ejozl wrote: Yeah.. I'm really not scared that 6 range Tempests is too strong. Sure if you try to counter with only Vikings while not mining because of Tempest storm, you might have troubles, but turrets and marines in bunkers can defend it's attack. Get more eco or make a counter attack and let him have that one storm in your mineral line. If you know it's coming there's no way it's worse than normal Tempests, let alone Widow Mines and Liberators in your mineral line. Pretty sure this is just a post to try and get a nerf in on Protoss, since DKim already mentioned it. you cant kill his first tempest before it gets off its ability in your mineral line you are now 1 base vs 3 base protoss, do you understand? its not about massing tempests if you had read the OP its about that silly ability shutting down every single mech build so the purpose of the test map cant reveal if mech is too strong or not vs protoss in fact if david kim received any stats from the test map whatsoever outside "terran, protoss, zerg" he would be able to tell that mech is insanely underpowered and struggling mightily against all but in tvt | ||
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SpecKROELLchen
Germany151 Posts
And of course it became true...(dunno what they were thinking back then). I think designwise it would be very bad but: But could you imagine an ability or unit that cannot kill workers. Well this sounds stupid but this would immediately solve the tempestproblem. A certain radius in which a mineral patch neglects the field? Additionally i dont think tempests should be harass units. Maybe they should change the ability completely into something passive? | ||
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saalih416
19 Posts
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On October 11 2016 22:55 saalih416 wrote: I feel the SC2 approach to air units doesn't take into consideration the sheer intrinsic value of an air unit. An air unit can bypass any regular base defense centered around the map design itself, and forces the opponent to invest in anti-air defense/tech. It does a lot of damage with just simply being in the game. To then give them attack strength akin to strong ground units just makes them pure fuckery. This has been written on this forum for years, by different people and different ways, and it's still true. Making air units like liberators or tempest way stronger than some of the most basic and massable AA ground units (like stalkers, hydras or cyclones) just means every lategame scenario is gonna be mass air battles. The two ways to solve this issue is to either nerf the air units, or give the ground units the "queen treatment", which is make their AA attack better than their ground attack. Like the goliath. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
Overall the tempest needs to fit its role better. It's supposed to be a SUPPORT UNIT that helps protoss make terrans uncomfortable on taking positions. The void ray is supposed to be the general purpose air unit, and the carrier the end game capital ship. Right now the tempest occupies these 3 roles, time to redistribute a little. | ||
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Raineeb
Philippines39 Posts
On October 11 2016 22:03 FoxDog wrote: you cant kill his first tempest before it gets off its ability in your mineral line you are now 1 base vs 3 base protoss, do you understand? its not about massing tempests if you had read the OP its about that silly ability shutting down every single mech build so the purpose of the test map cant reveal if mech is too strong or not vs protoss in fact if david kim received any stats from the test map whatsoever outside "terran, protoss, zerg" he would be able to tell that mech is insanely underpowered and struggling mightily against all but in tvt That is exactly the purpose of the early Tempest: To try to prevent Mech from happening. Because when Terrans arrive at the mech composition Protoss or Zerg is basically dead. The damage of the new siege tanks is ridiculous and the new Cyclone is also a pain. The essence of Starcraft is to find counters. Find a way to kill the early Tempest and don't say it's impossible to stop. Now if you just want to try out the new Mech vs Protoss or Zerg tell your opponent at the start of the Test Map game that you want to tech up to Mech compo and try it out. People in test map ladder are very accomodating because they want to test their new unit abilities also. In my last Test map game I agreed with my Zerg opponent that I will try the Tempest and he will try the swarm host. | ||
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bypLy
757 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16100 Posts
On October 12 2016 12:36 Raineeb wrote: That is exactly the purpose of the early Tempest: To try to prevent Mech from happening. Because when Terrans arrive at the mech composition Protoss or Zerg is basically dead. The damage of the new siege tanks is ridiculous and the new Cyclone is also a pain. The essence of Starcraft is to find counters. Find a way to kill the early Tempest and don't say it's impossible to stop. The essence of Starcraft is to find counters. Because when Terrans arrive at the mech composition Protoss or Zerg is basically dead. Hmmmmmm... | ||
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FoxDog
170 Posts
On October 12 2016 12:36 Raineeb wrote: That is exactly the purpose of the early Tempest: To try to prevent Mech from happening. Because when Terrans arrive at the mech composition Protoss or Zerg is basically dead. The damage of the new siege tanks is ridiculous and the new Cyclone is also a pain. The essence of Starcraft is to find counters. Find a way to kill the early Tempest and don't say it's impossible to stop. Now if you just want to try out the new Mech vs Protoss or Zerg tell your opponent at the start of the Test Map game that you want to tech up to Mech compo and try it out. People in test map ladder are very accomodating because they want to test their new unit abilities also. In my last Test map game I agreed with my Zerg opponent that I will try the Tempest and he will try the swarm host. at 5 minutes nothing in the game can stop tempestrushes in pvt, you are so far behind by the end of the first ability cast from a tempest that the game is over but MECH is now acknowledged as a sovereign style and david kim should put equal effort into balancing mech as bio and right now no testing of any kind if possible due to the silly giant changes hes making arbitrarily dts never needed blink, tempests never needed psistorm, zerg never needed more powerful hydralisk but terran desperately needed more powerful tanks and an actual worthwhile cyclone... To add to this, your league and race means you should watch the added replay in the OP, i reccomend you trying the build for yourself before its patched just to see what i mean, it is unholdable for terran, it can also be used to kill the very buildings forcing a liftoff at any rate... | ||
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FoxDog
170 Posts
On October 11 2016 23:18 JackONeill wrote: trying to attack a protoss on 3 bases that's massing tempests is now completely impossible. PO + the spell DESTROYS bioball, and the spell lasts 30 secs with a 45 sec cooldown, which is completely ridiculous. Overall the tempest needs to fit its role better. It's supposed to be a SUPPORT UNIT that helps protoss make terrans uncomfortable on taking positions. The void ray is supposed to be the general purpose air unit, and the carrier the end game capital ship. Right now the tempest occupies these 3 roles, time to redistribute a little. its even worse for mech, but i can see this being gamebreaking in pvz as well its just that protosses arrent exploring it yet | ||
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