EPTOn October 10 2016 08:05 Phaenoman wrote:
The Tempest does splash dmg? I am pretty sure that's not the case
The Tempest does splash dmg? I am pretty sure that's not the case
It does, actually, deals splash damage.
Tempest rushing is a huge issue on the testmap - Page 4
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Lexender
Mexico2661 Posts
It does, actually, deals splash damage. | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On October 09 2016 12:29 parkufarku wrote: Then try building a different infrastructure path? My god, you Terrans will never change. Instead of adapting or trying new strategies, you whine until other races get nerfed to the ground. Good job, no wonder SC2 is dying since your real option of being a successful gamer is being a Terran player. Yeah lets blame terran players for sc2's inevitable demise. moron... | ||
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Athenau
589 Posts
On October 09 2016 12:29 parkufarku wrote: Good job, no wonder SC2 is dying since your real option of being a successful gamer is being a Terran player. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments 2016 Premier Tournament Victories: 6Z, 6P, 3T 2016 Premier Tournament Runner-ups: 6Z, 6P, 3T 2015 Premier Tournament Victories: 7Z, 11P, 4T 2015 Premier Tournament Runner-ups: 13Z, 6P, 3T Being immune to pesky things like "numbers" and "facts" must be pleasant. Unfortunately reality isn't so accommodating to the rest of us. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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FoxDog
170 Posts
On October 10 2016 12:23 Wildmoon wrote: Air units work best as supplementary units. Once they become the core unit then the game becomes really bad and bland because air units by their nature are uninteractive. They don't interact with terrain much and there are lots of units in the game that they simply hardcounter because a lot of units can not shoot up. Thank you, yet another voice of reason i dont get why david kim doesnt do whats right... | ||
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Hungry101
25 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On October 10 2016 12:56 FoxDog wrote: Thank you, yet another voice of reason i dont get why david kim doesnt do whats right... I don't necessarily entirely agree with the idea. The tempest certainly is concerning but there have been many instances of air units as the core of an army have been interesting, like mutalisks in SCBW which managed to be cool despite the lack of interaction with the terrain, and tech swaps to carriers. Both of those involved some impressive micro, especially in the case of mutalisks. Mutas in ZvZ were just complete nutso. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On October 10 2016 14:45 Djzapz wrote: I don't necessarily entirely agree with the idea. The tempest certainly is concerning but there have been many instances of air units as the core of an army have been interesting, like mutalisks in SCBW which managed to be cool despite the lack of interaction with the terrain, and tech swaps to carriers. Both of those involved some impressive micro, especially in the case of mutalisks. Mutas in ZvZ were just complete nutso. ZvZ in BW was bad at least imo. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On October 08 2016 03:41 Th1rdEye wrote: I kinda agree with the power of air units in SC2. Been playing BW lately only... Mutalisks can die to turrets and marines, irradiate etc... Wraiths die to spores/turret etc, Scouts/Sairs can be defended. All the air units in BW can be countered relatively easily.. Mass carrier sair is still tough but there are still ways to deal with it pretty easily if you dont micro right. All the air units have their places but aren't super OP. A dropship is slow enough to be caught if you're scouting properly etc. Protoss speed shuttles are fast but in BW you wont just straight up lose a game because u lost a mineral line of workers. . I played since Beta of WOL. Air units in SC2 has been my biggest complaint throughout all of sc2's life. I have always hated seeing just how strong air armies are in the late game. I won't expand really anymore because you essentially said what I think 100%. I really, really wish Blizzard would look at air units/drop harass and change it, but I gave up on that years ago. | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On October 10 2016 14:45 Djzapz wrote: I don't necessarily entirely agree with the idea. The tempest certainly is concerning but there have been many instances of air units as the core of an army have been interesting, like mutalisks in SCBW which managed to be cool despite the lack of interaction with the terrain, and tech swaps to carriers. Both of those involved some impressive micro, especially in the case of mutalisks. Mutas in ZvZ were just complete nutso. Mutalisks were not core army units in BW. Mutalisk die to almost every anti-air unit in the game in a fair fight. They get evaporated by the anti-air of T and P especially. The benefit of Mutalisks in BW was that they didnt need to fight fair. They could kite their low-range (marine) enemies, abuse terrain (against dragoons for example) and always threaten the opponent with a back stab while the zerg player was bunkering up behind static defense. | ||
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todespolka
221 Posts
On October 08 2016 03:31 Beelzebub1 wrote: Yea I'm not too sure why they need more information, play a few games vs Protoss or look on any thread regarding the test map and Tempests are heavily complained about, I'm one of those complainers lol the ability lasts WAAY too long and is WAAY too good at shutting down mineral lines, like this game really needs yet another unit that massacres economy T__T I guess what I meant to say was, "Like this game needs yet another aerial unit that requires an extremely specific response or it's gg" like pretty much every other air unit in the game. Mutalisks? OP as shit and has required so many band aid buffs that now they aren't even viable because they threat of them being viable is enough to force a blind counter (Opening Stargate) or kill them before Spire (2 base allins) Liberators? Massacres drones, massacres all aerial units except dedicated anti - air units like the Corruptor with carapace upgrades and good splits. Required band aid buffs to actually have a non ludicrous place in the game Oracles? Ending games with proxy nonsense since HOTS and it's even more strong in LOTV due to kick started economy. Incinerates workers too fast to even react, incinerates small groups of light units too fast to micro against, OP vision granting abilities that last for almost a minute. Void Rays? Pretty much had to be nerfed to shit because they are the ultimate snow ball out of control unit that is only countered by money fungals Carriers? So strong that even high level Zergs usually just get lucky when they defeat this composition in mass, I'm never going to have unit control like Snute and he barely scrapes by the skin of his teeth vs mass Carrier turtle Protoss. Brood lords? So strong that they renamed the expansion Lings of Liberty because combined with Fungals was utterly unstoppable Does anyone see a recurring theme here? It's not just Tempests (which the OP is totally justified in complaining about) it's just fucking air units in general. They are too damn strong, and they are especially too damn strong vs economy, a big part of what makes LOTV so punishing and oppressive to play at times. Its because people lie and often complain because of frustration and not because its a real problem. How are you able to know who is right? There is no way to tell who is right except time. We had many incidents in history of our community, where the majority was wrong. Also many of us have a different opinion (i know some people believe their opinion is the only opinion). | ||
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todespolka
221 Posts
On October 10 2016 15:19 RoomOfMush wrote: Mutalisks were not core army units in BW. Mutalisk die to almost every anti-air unit in the game in a fair fight. They get evaporated by the anti-air of T and P especially. The benefit of Mutalisks in BW was that they didnt need to fight fair. They could kite their low-range (marine) enemies, abuse terrain (against dragoons for example) and always threaten the opponent with a back stab while the zerg player was bunkering up behind static defense. A fair fight can mean a lot. Mutas were not that bad. But the strength of air units comes from stacking, which gives them a huge advantage (X units attacking 1 unit). | ||
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todespolka
221 Posts
On October 09 2016 19:00 MockHamill wrote: Yeah I stopped playing the testmap due to Tempest and mass Swarmhosts. What is the point of trying to make mech viable if you introduce broken things like that? I do not understand why Blizzard makes changes that makes the game worse. It would have been sufficient to 1. Remove Tankivacs 2. Increase tank damage 3. Increase Tempest supply to 6. No other changes are needed and they may just introduce unnecessary problems like mass swarmhost games or Tempest storming your mineral lines. Its not about making mech viable. Its also about giving other races a way to deal with it. Why is that difficult to understand? They try to find out how they can counter mech with positional play. Thats an extremely good idea. But the spell is essentially a force field, they need a better way. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On October 10 2016 15:19 RoomOfMush wrote: Mutalisks were not core army units in BW. Mutalisk die to almost every anti-air unit in the game in a fair fight. They get evaporated by the anti-air of T and P especially. The benefit of Mutalisks in BW was that they didnt need to fight fair. They could kite their low-range (marine) enemies, abuse terrain (against dragoons for example) and always threaten the opponent with a back stab while the zerg player was bunkering up behind static defense. It's specific to ZvZ, they could be a core unit then and IMO it's would be one of the more interesting ways in which ZvZ could be played, especially when devourers and queens started to come out. | ||
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Phaenoman
568 Posts
What? I am talking about the basic attack. There is no splash. | ||
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RoomOfMush
1296 Posts
On October 10 2016 15:34 todespolka wrote: A fair fight can mean a lot. Mutas were not that bad. But the strength of air units comes from stacking, which gives them a huge advantage (X units attacking 1 unit). When I said fair I meant mutas vs an army of roughly equal cost. Of course 10 mutas will win vs 10 marines; even with bad micro. But 10 mutas vs 40 marines (if we count gas cost == mineral cost) then the mutas will get shredded unless you play with no latency at all and are a god of muta micro and abuse the range advantage of mutas to its extreme. To put it another way: If you go mass muta and your opponent knows that you go mass muta there is no way on earth you can win that game unless you are far better than your opponent. On October 10 2016 21:37 Djzapz wrote: It's specific to ZvZ, they could be a core unit then and IMO it's would be one of the more interesting ways in which ZvZ could be played, especially when devourers and queens started to come out. ZvZ in BW was pretty extreme. I wouldnt even talk about "core army units" in ZvZ because most of the time there was no army. The game was (most of the time) over after a couple of minutes with both players racing for mutalisks with a couple of lings and scourge on the way. This was mainly (in my opinion) because there was no mobile anti-air unit for Z which was good against light air units. Hydras were good anti-air, but only against heavy units which mutas are not. The only other anti-air for zerg was mutas and scourge, both of which have the same tech path and both of which your enemy is building also. ZvZ was forced into muta-vs-muta because zerg did not have any good ground anti-air that could deal with mutas. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1556 Posts
Tempests easily beat 2 viking BTW | ||
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FoxDog
170 Posts
On October 10 2016 09:02 Athenau wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments 2016 Premier Tournament Victories: 6Z, 6P, 3T 2016 Premier Tournament Runner-ups: 6Z, 6P, 3T 2015 Premier Tournament Victories: 7Z, 11P, 4T 2015 Premier Tournament Runner-ups: 13Z, 6P, 3T Being immune to pesky things like "numbers" and "facts" must be pleasant. Unfortunately reality isn't so accommodating to the rest of us. haha and thats just tournament results, nevermind having to play at that level for the game to function properly! | ||
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FoxDog
170 Posts
On October 10 2016 22:06 Phaenoman wrote: What? I am talking about the basic attack. There is no splash. the new testmap ability does its why i made this entire post, to highlight! | ||
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