EPTTempest rushing is a huge issue on the testmap - Page 3
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
avilo
United States4100 Posts
| ||
|
Kiwan
Australia36 Posts
| ||
|
Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On October 09 2016 12:57 avilo wrote: Does the tempest need a free 32 second lasting psi storm in your mineral line? Yeah...no lol. Hope it's hotfixed soon. I disagree with 98% of what Avilo talks about but this is that rare 2%. The ability is just OP, why anything would last 32 fucking seconds in an RTS is absurd. | ||
|
Wrath
3174 Posts
| ||
|
NKexquisite
United States911 Posts
It's broken... | ||
|
MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
What is the point of trying to make mech viable if you introduce broken things like that? I do not understand why Blizzard makes changes that makes the game worse. It would have been sufficient to 1. Remove Tankivacs 2. Increase tank damage 3. Increase Tempest supply to 6. No other changes are needed and they may just introduce unnecessary problems like mass swarmhost games or Tempest storming your mineral lines. | ||
|
JackONeill
861 Posts
It's even more massable, because you can spamm the sphere while chasing which is completely hysterical. Seeing an air deathball chasing an army while spamming storms is the very proof blizz have no internal testing. Also, i remember that when the test map changelog got out, someone pointed out that the spell would be broken in mineral lines. To which DK answered in the comment that it shouldn't be an issue. WELL FUCKING GUESS WHAT. | ||
|
KingCobra90
Russian Federation6 Posts
On October 09 2016 13:41 Kiwan wrote: Why do people keep freaking out when they adjust things to possibly be a little bit OP at the beginning of balance testing? It's been stated many times that they do this so they get people to use the unit/ability lots so they can get lots of data on how/when it's used. It also forces people to find counters. If every time you play protoss and you have a tempest in your mineral line at 5 minutes, then you going to figure out a way to get a counter out at that point. If this is not possible, then they do what they said, which is to change the cooldown on the ability or make it so you have to research it. u can build 2 vikings and kill 1st tempest, ez win | ||
|
Tuczniak
1561 Posts
Generally it make sense to test something little OP. But it's useless to test something very OP, because the strengths and reactions are so distant to what could happen in actual games. It will happen for shorter periods, but developers should realize this fast because the testing time is being wasted for that matchup. | ||
|
JulDraGoN
Sweden370 Posts
I do get it that the idea was to buff mech to make mech "viable" and give Protoss something that forces Terrans to change their tank setup. But I already think that Protoss has enough stuff that can do that, we don't really need the new Tempest spell. For example, one of my favorite ways I've seen players like puCK deal with mech back in HotS was to get 6-8 warp prisms, fill them up with immortals/archons, drop them, then reinforce with a lot of chargelots/DTs. It was fun to play and fun to watch. Was it actually viable? I don't know, worked for me when I tried it at least and I never saw puCK lose with it. To be fair, I have been against the Tempest since it was introduced, it is a quite boring unit that offers very little both for players and spectators. There isn't much to micro and even sound of the attacks annoys you after a while. It was designed to help to counter Broodlords after they were deemed too powerful in WoL. Broodlords on their own are pretty bad regardless if you build Tempest or not and seeing as the infestors were nerfed, I never really saw the point of the unit. I guess now it is needed to help deal with mass liberators. I don't know the point of my post anymore. | ||
|
InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
However, does getting a tempest for a 5:00 timing leave the protoss vulnerable to any timings? | ||
|
FoxDog
170 Posts
On October 09 2016 19:00 MockHamill wrote: 'Yeah I stopped playing the testmap due to Tempest and mass Swarmhosts. What is the point of trying to make mech viable if you introduce broken things like that? I do not understand why Blizzard makes changes that makes the game worse. It would have been sufficient to 1. Remove Tankivacs 2. Increase tank damage 3. Increase Tempest supply to 6. No other changes are needed and they may just introduce unnecessary problems like mass swarmhost games or Tempest storming your mineral lines. This is so true, what you are saying here restored my faith in humanity | ||
|
Marcus Arcadia
Philippines92 Posts
I mean, isn't it obvious enough? Its already a flying unit with long range splash damage. Why do you need a damage spell for it? | ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16039 Posts
On October 08 2016 06:18 Qwyn wrote: Lol, I knew this would be what all the Protoss were doing every game once they tried it out ^_^. It's one of those things that is really hard to balance. Actually if it really lasts for 32(!) seconds then you could probably cut the duration in half and it'd still be good against mech, maybe? But the problem of mineral line harass still remains. But if he's buying a fleet beacon just to build one tempest to harass your mineral lines (lol) he's probably pretty susceptible to a timing attack... My gut is telling me that even though it seems ridiculous there should be a way to fight around it! Investment in SG -> oracle (assuming) -> fleet beacon -> tempest + (tempest travel time if you didn't proxy) is quite a bit of money that could be invested in tech elsewhere for one unit that doesn't do much besides throw down mineral line balls, lol. For the same price if scouted you should just be able to buy a pair of vikings and kill the tempest as it's walking over, lol, and if it's proxied you should obviously be able to shut the proxy down before he can get a fleet beacon and a tempest... Just some food for thought, Protoss is pretty limited in tech when they do crap like this... We come again to the problem of the Mothership Core and Photon Overcharge. Terran has a hard time breaching Protoss defenses early on, they NEED Stim in order to do it without pulling SCVs. Do we really want to make "pulling the boys" the best viable way to handle the kind of stupid bullshit Protoss can do because the only way to stop it is to "stop them from getting there?" Tempest rushing needs more counter-play. This is really quite a simple solution IMO. If you're going to keep it at all, put Disruption Sphere as a researchable ability on the Fleet Beacon and put it with a hefty cost (200/200 sounds about right, same as Psionic Storm) and research time. That will eliminate the viability of rushing to it and we can put this issue to bed. | ||
|
parkufarku
882 Posts
I would nerf Tanks, Liberators, Widow Mines right now. Marines are fine as it is. | ||
|
FoxDog
170 Posts
On October 09 2016 12:57 avilo wrote: Does the tempest need a free 32 second lasting psi storm in your mineral line? Yeah...no lol. Hope it's hotfixed soon. It isnt so bad an ability, but the fact they can bumrush you and it prevents literally all mech testing is tantemount to absolute retardation on david kims behalf and this proves he is lying about all his stats on mech and puts in question everything else he has said i mean come on... | ||
|
[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
| ||
|
Haighstrom
United Kingdom194 Posts
On October 08 2016 03:31 Beelzebub1 wrote: Mutalisks? OP as shit and has required so many band aid buffs that now they aren't even viable because they threat of them being viable is enough to force a blind counter (Opening Stargate) or kill them before Spire (2 base allins) Liberators? Massacres drones, massacres all aerial units except dedicated anti - air units like the Corruptor with carapace upgrades and good splits. Required band aid buffs to actually have a non ludicrous place in the game Oracles? Ending games with proxy nonsense since HOTS and it's even more strong in LOTV due to kick started economy. Incinerates workers too fast to even react, incinerates small groups of light units too fast to micro against, OP vision granting abilities that last for almost a minute. Void Rays? Pretty much had to be nerfed to shit because they are the ultimate snow ball out of control unit that is only countered by money fungals Carriers? So strong that even high level Zergs usually just get lucky when they defeat this composition in mass, I'm never going to have unit control like Snute and he barely scrapes by the skin of his teeth vs mass Carrier turtle Protoss. Speaking only from the ZvP perspective, this is total bollocks. Mutas in small-medium numbers are bad against stalkers, archons, cannons, pylon overcharge. If it's late enough in the game to mass switch, getting 2 stargates up while overcharging / warping in stalkers/archons gets pheonix out in plenty of time. Liberators are trivial to defend. Queens much better, spores burrow faster, ravagers hard counter them. Hardly any terrans are doing liberator harrass in early game now because of the queen and spore buffs. Occasional lib range can be annoying but ovie speed scout / grab a spire sorts it most times. Oracles are easy if you get ovie speed and scout their main. Sure, once in a while I won't scout proxy oracles and they'll do a lot of damage, but as long as you pull fast and have multiple queens it's not game ending even if you didn't build spores. Most games it's scouted, 1 spore in main/natural, 2 queens at 3rd, negligible damage done. If the early-mid game goes your way, voids / carriers are easy with mass ling/hydra, protoss just can't get onto 4 base if you got into a solid 9-10 min hydra/ling +2 push, and you can starve them out. It is up to the Zerg to make something happen if they're massing carriers, but it can be done without too much trouble. That's not to say the new tempests aren't OP, I think they definitely need a nerf. But only them. Claiming air is too strong right now is BS. | ||
|
FoxDog
170 Posts
On October 10 2016 00:21 Vindicare605 wrote: We come again to the problem of the Mothership Core and Photon Overcharge. Terran has a hard time breaching Protoss defenses early on, they NEED Stim in order to do it without pulling SCVs. Do we really want to make "pulling the boys" the best viable way to handle the kind of stupid bullshit Protoss can do because the only way to stop it is to "stop them from getting there?" Tempest rushing needs more counter-play. This is really quite a simple solution IMO. If you're going to keep it at all, put Disruption Sphere as a researchable ability on the Fleet Beacon and put it with a hefty cost (200/200 sounds about right, same as Psionic Storm) and research time. That will eliminate the viability of rushing to it and we can put this issue to bed. So basicly what you are saying is to use common sense... hmm | ||
|
Phaenoman
568 Posts
On October 10 2016 00:12 Marcus Arcadia wrote: I'm a Diamond-3 Terran player, and I have to say. Regardless of whether its a tempest rush or a macro game, having a flying unit with long-range splash AND a 30+ second psi storm is a bit... I mean, isn't it obvious enough? Its already a flying unit with long range splash damage. Why do you need a damage spell for it? The Tempest does splash dmg? I am pretty sure that's not the case  And its ability is neither interesting nor needed. Not sure what Blizzard is aiming for, | ||
| ||
