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On October 08 2016 06:53 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
While the tempest is a very strong unit in the PTR, and I agree it does need a nerf, lets not exaggerate too much.
As someone said earlier, it is a heavy tech investment that is punishable. The cost of getting it leaves protoss incredibly vulnerable.
Now if the tech is hidden, and protoss can easily mask the build, than we do have a problem here. Currently if you see an early fleet beacon, stop all tech/economy and go for a giant army to push immediately. One tempest will do very little against a large 40-50 supply army.
In this particular situation (fast tempest rush to harass mineral lines) I really don't see Tempests being that problematic.
Now in the late game, when Protoss can amass 6-8 Tempests that are protected by HT or disruptors or stalkers, then we have a real problem. The length and size definitely needs to be shrunken a bit.
read the OP, the tempest hits at 5:00, you will have at most made 8 marines by then if doing a standard opener, and the protoss has aprox 1000/1000 floating because of the time it takes to finish the cyber, stargate and fleet becon
so thats 9 adepts and a mothership core
if you also bothered to watch the replay attached you would see that there is no way to stop this build in highmaster/gm.
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So you're telling me that the Protoss can get all that (cyber, stargate, fleet beacon, 9 adepts, MoCore) and all you will have is 8 marines? 8 marines is 400 mineral.
400 mineral vs. over 1k/1k in units and structures........
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yes like the liberator circles? the reason tempest get nerfed is that you can mass it in the lategame. But hows about liberator? like polt building all the time only liberators 5 at once.
All the terrans crying all the time. I hope david kim will never read that feedback or any other lol.
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On October 08 2016 08:12 NutriaKaiN wrote:
yes like the liberator circles? the reason tempest get nerfed is that you can mass it in the lategame. But hows about liberator? like polt building all the time only liberators 5 at once.
All the terrans crying all the time. I hope david kim will never read that feedback or any other lol.
it hits at 5:00 it cant be stopped and immediatly renders the protoss 3 base vs 1 base... you cant mine from the base when the ability is in effect...
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I don't know if its impossible to hold or not, i just hate this kind of stupid skills, how do they come up with these idea? seriously? What is it needed for? Protoss is already the race with most aoe.
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On October 08 2016 07:20 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
So you're telling me that the Protoss can get all that (cyber, stargate, fleet beacon, 9 adepts, MoCore) and all you will have is 8 marines? 8 marines is 400 mineral.
400 mineral vs. over 1k/1k in units and structures........
Terran infrastructure is slower to kick in, Terran requires specific tech and upgrades to be competitive in a standard game, and there's the defensive advantage of travel time and planetary pylons.
The problem isn't that you can't hardcounter Tempest Rushes - the problem is that you die to everything and anything if they did not tempest rush.
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On October 08 2016 03:53 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
32 seconds is way too long for a spell in sc2, its absurd.
I'm yet to hear anyone come up with a realistic strategy for swarm hosts 
A gas heavy harass unit with a 45 second cooldown between attacks? Come on.
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8751 Posts
That replay is not compelling. It features low level play and a terran who is not trying to counter it.
Keep in mind that saying something is strong against standard play is something that Blizzard wants to hear, not something that worries them. Continuing to develop the game is supposed to involve the old standards becoming obsolete. Trying hard to make an old build work against something new on the test map and failing is not alarming.
On October 08 2016 07:06 FoxDog wrote:
if you also bothered to watch the replay attached you would see that there is no way to stop this build in highmaster/gm.
You don't know what you don't know. Even pros think something is impossible until someone does it. You're going way too far based on some extremely low level play. Post the replays of the top GM players or pros, at least to start.
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Russian Federation6 Posts
On October 08 2016 03:22 FoxDog wrote:
Right now there is a balance test map with its own ladder ment to provide feedback to blizzard, yet if they received data theyd be able to tell that TvP currently on EU is 100% them rushing to tempests
this is because once the tempest ability is in your mineral line the protoss virtually shuts down that base so now you are down a base to his three.
this is coz im only 1 high ml/gml toss in test map)
ur low ml and play rly stupid build in all games, thats why u lose
and i play this build only vs low ml, high ml/gml know how to play)
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they are looking closer into rotti build?
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build vikings instead of medivacs vs sg ? kill tempest / tempests , and be far ahead , cuzz protoss just invested in tech that have no use next 3-4 minutes, while not having everything else?
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It would be so easy for DKim to just make the spell kind of an earthquake-themed spell and have it not affect hovering units. I think that would solve the worker harass problem 100%, while finally getting to see whether the spell could potentially fit with the rest of the game.
Can you imagine how broken Spider Mines would've been in BW if they could target workers? There's precedent to using the hovering tag for something.
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players should gather and agree on not to abuse every unit/ability to kill workers, use them on armies only 
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Funny how DK "listens" to the community. Community since HotS been telling they don't like overkilling on mineral lines. So DK somehow concluded that Blink-DTs and Tempest time bomb was exactly what community been asking for.
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On October 09 2016 01:29 AndYouSayHeDoesntHac wrote:
Funny how DK "listens" to the community. Community since HotS been telling they don't like overkilling on mineral lines. So DK somehow concluded that Blink-DTs and Tempest time bomb was exactly what community been asking for.
Oracle, hellbat drop, widowmine drop, adept prism and now tempest ball, what you are saying is so true, its basically a way around playing a straightup game and testing the other players macro/micro/skill
bad design in other words!
what would i do? i would have made it so that the ball is killable or the tempest has to channel it so killing the tempest cancels the ability like neural, or i would make the ability only dmg units and not buildings
david kim is powering up for something, this ability is forshadowing swarmhosts style mass spine spore forests returning for which this ability makes perfect sense and i dread that
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On October 08 2016 03:41 Th1rdEye wrote:
I kinda agree with the power of air units in SC2.
Been playing BW lately only... Mutalisks can die to turrets and marines, irradiate etc... Wraiths die to spores/turret etc, Scouts/Sairs can be defended. All the air units in BW can be countered relatively easily.. Mass carrier sair is still tough but there are still ways to deal with it pretty easily if you dont micro right.
All the air units have their places but aren't super OP. A dropship is slow enough to be caught if you're scouting properly etc. Protoss speed shuttles are fast but in BW you wont just straight up lose a game because u lost a mineral line of workers.
. I played since Beta of WOL.
whoah is that you Rob?
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On October 08 2016 22:03 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2016 07:20 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
So you're telling me that the Protoss can get all that (cyber, stargate, fleet beacon, 9 adepts, MoCore) and all you will have is 8 marines? 8 marines is 400 mineral.
400 mineral vs. over 1k/1k in units and structures........ Terran infrastructure is slower to kick in, Terran requires specific tech and upgrades to be competitive in a standard game, and there's the defensive advantage of travel time and planetary pylons. The problem isn't that you can't hardcounter Tempest Rushes - the problem is that you die to everything and anything if they did not tempest rush.
I honestly don't know the meta on test map atm, but if you play bio 2-1-1, 5 mins is the timing when you're supposed to have 16 marines, stim, and 2 medivacs (or 1 medivac 2 mines). Does it fully counter a well executed tempest rush? I don't know, but it certainly does not die to everything and anything else.
Having only 8 marine at 5 mins is silver league level. let's keep it real.
EDIT : watched replay, all I saw is a terran being canon rushed, loosing a lot and being supply block for the longest time. In all honesty, DTs or oracles would have ended the game the same way.
We need a replay where the terran doesn't loose so much before tempest timing so we can get a better idea.
Not saying tempest is not OP but we need more data than this, and if I was blizzard this replay alone would not convince me.
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I really dislike the tempest. It is just such a boring unit. Not fun to play with, not fun to use. I really wish they would scrap it
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On October 08 2016 22:32 NonY wrote:That replay is not compelling. It features low level play and a terran who is not trying to counter it. Keep in mind that saying something is strong against standard play is something that Blizzard wants to hear, not something that worries them. Continuing to develop the game is supposed to involve the old standards becoming obsolete. Trying hard to make an old build work against something new on the test map and failing is not alarming. Show nested quote +On October 08 2016 07:06 FoxDog wrote:
if you also bothered to watch the replay attached you would see that there is no way to stop this build in highmaster/gm.
You don't know what you don't know. Even pros think something is impossible until someone does it. You're going way too far based on some extremely low level play. Post the replays of the top GM players or pros, at least to start.
So if bronze league only has Protoss players doing the same Tempest rush, it's ok? :|
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On October 08 2016 22:03 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2016 07:20 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
So you're telling me that the Protoss can get all that (cyber, stargate, fleet beacon, 9 adepts, MoCore) and all you will have is 8 marines? 8 marines is 400 mineral.
400 mineral vs. over 1k/1k in units and structures........ Terran infrastructure is slower to kick in, Terran requires specific tech and upgrades to be competitive in a standard game, and there's the defensive advantage of travel time and planetary pylons. The problem isn't that you can't hardcounter Tempest Rushes - the problem is that you die to everything and anything if they did not tempest rush.
Then try building a different infrastructure path?
My god, you Terrans will never change. Instead of adapting or trying new strategies, you whine until other races get nerfed to the ground. Good job, no wonder SC2 is dying since your real option of being a successful gamer is being a Terran player.
User was warned for this post
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