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On September 03 2016 12:12 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:I feel like when people read something they disagree with, they immediately stop reading everything else. Show nested quote +2. Mech is too strong right now.
a. We’ve been hearing your feedback on this.
b. We can approach this from many different angles, such as: the Siege Tank buff may have been slightly too much, or maybe we’ve touched too many units overall.
c. While we’re still not certain that this is a big issue and we’d like to have more games played before making a call, it would be great to discuss this further. I've just bolded, italicized, AND underlined something that everyone jumping down DK's throat should probably read. I won't go into a lot of discussion, and I think this should speak for itself.
Isn't that what we are doing here? Discussing it further by stating that it makes no sense to make such a hasty call about mech being too strong already? There was virtually no input from DK's post to discuss anyway. Why does he state that mech is too strong now? Which situations? What matchup? Versus what compositions? What games between pros support that notion? It's all just out of thin air and theorycraft or maybe they did "internal testing"?
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On September 03 2016 12:12 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:I feel like when people read something they disagree with, they immediately stop reading everything else. Show nested quote +2. Mech is too strong right now.
a. We’ve been hearing your feedback on this.
b. We can approach this from many different angles, such as: the Siege Tank buff may have been slightly too much, or maybe we’ve touched too many units overall.
c. While we’re still not certain that this is a big issue and we’d like to have more games played before making a call, it would be great to discuss this further. I've just bolded, italicized, AND underlined something that everyone jumping down DK's throat should probably read. I won't go into a lot of discussion, and I think this should speak for itself.
People including myself are probably reacting the way we are because we've heard "mech will be viable" since early 2010 or what not.
And then every change after that point has systematically made mech worse and worse over the last few years @_@
So then finally when blizzard seems to be waking up and making it so tanks can hold a position on the map...they are almost instantly and immediately backtracking or preparing to.
It's natural a lot of people are going to be reacting the way they are. When you factor in on top of this, just as i described, there are even more mech counters added onto the test map which will make mech worse/easier to play vs (burrow infestor, extra range hydra, etc) yet they suddenly again say mech is strong and ignore literally every other variable and don't acknowledge that they also added a ton of mech counters on the test mod.
The main problem is - a sample size of games of 2 weeks on a test mod that very few people play, and on top of that very few of those players are actually good versus mech or playing mech.
Players like myself have had 5+ years practicing mech play on a game that has done everything to try to make it impossible to play. A huge portion of the people that play SC2 right now are 100% used to playing against ONLY bio play. Playing versus mech requires an entirely different unit comp in most of the match-ups.
But is "mech too strong?" HELL NO. I mean if you want the best in-game example i can give of the difference of playing against bio versus mech take this example:
A Zerg player plays a bio Terran. Almost 99% of games the Zerg is building ZERO vipers and almost forgets entirely about the units existence.
A Zerg player plays a mech Terran. Almost 99% of the games the Zerg is building 10+ vipers and spamming abduct+blinding cloud to play versus mech.
That is a tiny unit compositional example of how Zergs play differently vs bio and vs mech. It's obvious after you've played countless games against mech but 2 weeks of games a lot of players will be clueless and simply say "tanks too stronk plz nerf." Or "mech is too strong."
It's also mind boggling to me how after 2 weeks with virtually no sample size blizzard can come out and say "mech is too strong" when it's blatantly incorrect and an overreaction. But at the same time leave 8 armor ultras, invincible nydus worm, mass adepts in the game for almost a year now @_@
p.s. tanks are so bad on the live version of the game that for example against protoss it's actually better to mass banshees/vikings/ravens and mines than it is to make any siege tanks at all past the 5 min mark
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Now let the terran whine begin!!
I guess as usual this community news topic will become a list of
- terran is too weak
- nerf photos, it's gimmicky
- nerf ultras
- unless you are avilo you cannot comment on mech
When maybe the only change they are thinking about is to lower a bit the tank damage, without coming close to what it was before..
Every time blizzard posts these feedback topics I just hope more and more that they won't listen to a community of crying babies..
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I hope when they mean mech they mean cyclones. I don't want tank damage to be touched though I think siege mode should be an upgrade again.
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5/9/2012
- Queen anti-ground weapon attack range increased from 3 to 5
3/12/13
- Heart of the Swarm release
8/18/16
- Mech buffed
9/2/16
- Mech fucking nerfed
Does anyone else see the fucking problem here? I'm pretty fucking sick of this shit already, Blizz. You let Broodlord/Winfestor DESTROY the game and its community for a year and didn't do shit about it, but it takes you all of two weeks to decide that you're probably gonna nerf mech? When nobody any fucking good at all is testing these changes?
I'm almost at the end of the rope here, honestly. I love SC2 for what it is, and it makes me angry to think of just how much more I could love it if you made the slight changes it needs. I'm fucking sick of playing Bio everytime I login if I want a CHANCE to win, I'm fucking SICK of Terran being so fucking one dimensional and boring unlike the other two races.
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On September 03 2016 13:28 royalroadweed wrote:
I hope when they mean mech they mean cyclones. I don't want tank damage to be touched though I think siege mode should be an upgrade again.
I agree, if tank siege damage is going to be that high then it should be an upgrade. I'm happy with no tankivac if it means that a siege tank does what it's supposed to do, which is SIEGE.
With the units being what they are now, having no tankivac and the siege being on an upgrade scale akin to the banshee speed upgrade (having to research it from a tech lab again) I think mech might, maybe, become viable again. Especially with swarmhost being essentially worthless. (Also Blizzard, just remove the swarm host and let it die a dignified death, PLEASE)
How that ends up working in actual play, I have no idea.
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Can we increase stalker air damage?
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On September 03 2016 14:02 Lunareste wrote:
5/9/2012
- Queen anti-ground weapon attack range increased from 3 to 5
3/12/13
- Heart of the Swarm release
8/18/16
- Mech buffed
9/2/16
- Mech fucking nerfed
Does anyone else see the fucking problem here? I'm pretty fucking sick of this shit already, Blizz. You let Broodlord/Winfestor DESTROY the game and its community for a year and didn't do shit about it, but it takes you all of two weeks to decide that you're probably gonna nerf mech? When nobody any fucking good at all is testing these changes?
I'm almost at the end of the rope here, honestly. I love SC2 for what it is, and it makes me angry to think of just how much more I could love it if you made the slight changes it needs. I'm fucking sick of playing Bio everytime I login if I want a CHANCE to win, I'm fucking SICK of Terran being so fucking one dimensional and boring unlike the other two races.
They haven't decide that they're probably going to nerf Mech. Unless you're thinking of the banshee nerf, there isn't even a proposed nerf . . . It's just a statement of what they're seeing now, and that it's something they're looking into.
Your reaction doesn't make sense to me. At all.
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Are we really overreacting?
I don't think so, not with DK's track record.
Coming out and saying 'mech might be too strong', no matter how many disclaimers he writes underneath, is provocative to Terran players, to say the least. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that.
Even if there's evidence mech might be too strong on the test map (which I really doubt) you can't come out and say that when so little actual testing has been done, while other glaring issues have been left in the game untouched for so long. It's bound to piss people off.
For someone that was so good with words on his previous feedback updates that people were saying he sounds like a politician, this one was a complete PR disaster. It's like he's completely out of touch with the community.
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Has anybody seen Protoss playing zealot archon phoenix.
These new zealots omg.
I dont understand why nobody complains abbaut that.
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On September 03 2016 14:47 ihatevideogames wrote:
Are we really overreacting?
I don't think so, not with DK's track record.
Coming out and saying 'mech might be too strong', no matter how many disclaimers he writes underneath, is provocative to Terran players, to say the least. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that.
Even if there's evidence mech might be too strong on the test map (which I really doubt) you can't come out and say that when so little actual testing has been done, while other glaring issues have been left in the game untouched for so long. It's bound to piss people off.
For someone that was so good with words on his previous feedback updates that people were saying he sounds like a politician, this one was a complete PR disaster. It's like he's completely out of touch with the community.
So the only possible outcome of this test map is
- mech is ok
- buff mech
?
Don't forget that they are buffing many terran mech units, but this doesn't mean that they will force players to play turtle-mech-lategame style, you have to balance the new tanks also thinking about early pushes with bio, rushes, etc....
I really really really don't see how this statement can be a PR disaster (so dramatic..)
he's saying mech *might* be to strong (this is a MAYBE) and they may be changing something (which I'M SURE it doesn't mean they will revert all changes.. come on..)
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On September 03 2016 06:42 Teoita wrote:
I hate the nerf to shade vision because it removes the adept's scouting and doens't do that much for jumping adepts between mineral lines in the midgame. I'd prefer a shade cooldown nerf.
Ye but protoss scouting is way too strong throughout whole game so it's a good direction
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The most important thing is that those changes must change tvp in all aspects, the mu is not intersting to play as a terran, neither to watch pro play.
Completly imba imo.
Free B3, no need anymore splash damage to beat bio, to many harass/all in options, prism + shade + front attack way too strong to defend.
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Way to early to talk about mech nerfs. They made this mistake in 2 expansion in a row during the BETA and look how it turned up.
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I realy hope they don't Nerf mech to early while letting the other changes go through. With things like baneling and zelot buffs along with a lib nerf and removal of tankivac bio is going to be hurting alot. Terran is getting only changes to mech in the patch so if they tune those changes to hard so that mech remains nonviable than Terran will be forced to play with heavily nerfed bio.blizzard has a history of buffing mech in expansions and then preemptively buffing the other races against mech so that mech remains nonviable. I relay hope they take a wait and see approach for awhile and let the dust settle.
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On September 03 2016 06:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Part of the problem is that everything mech including tanks is buffed. Everything that counters mech is nerfed. Also bio is weakened in general since bio counters like banelings are also buffed. The original proposed balance changes just made no sense, so the probably had an idea of what changes they wanted and now they are just playing it out slowly, changing it to how they really wanted it, with disregard.
Vipers are not nerfed. So saying everything that counters mech is nerfed is wrong. Vipers are probably the most efficient counter to Mech.
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That artisan spirit brings tears to my eyes. Quite sure that they want to save this game.
On topic, If Tank needs to be nerfed, they should nerf(increase) its cooldown, not damage.
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On September 03 2016 13:03 VHbb wrote:
- nerf photos, it's gimmicky
Yeah photos suck.
Also remember at Dreamhack when Dayvie said "If the tank buff turns out too strong, we won't lower the damage but change something else like the rate of fire", and now lowering damage is literally the first thing he proposes?
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On September 03 2016 17:45 Elentos wrote:Yeah photos suck.
clearly I was referring to this
https://arxiv.org/abs/0707.3044
it never works properly 
autocorrect, photos -> protoss
I hope it's clear I was not serious 
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On September 03 2016 17:45 Elentos wrote:
Also remember at Dreamhack when Dayvie said "If the tank buff turns out too strong, we won't lower the damage but change something else like the rate of fire", and now lowering damage is literally the first thing he proposes?
Yep, I remember that too.
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EPT
