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http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20748944933
Recent Test Map Update
We released the three balance changes we discussed last week to the test map yesterday. Your feedback has been positive, and when we tested the changes internally, we thought that they were worth exploring with the public.
The changes were:
• Banshee's "Research Hyperflight Rotors" upgrade time increased from 93 to 121.
• Adept Shade vision reduced from 9 to 2.
• Removed the Infestor's Deep Tunnel ability.
Other areas we’re exploring:
1. Health reduction to Warp Prism.
2. Mech is too strong right now.
a. We’ve been hearing your feedback on this.
b. We can approach this from many different angles, such as: the Siege Tank buff may have been slightly too much, or maybe we’ve touched too many units overall.
c. While we’re still not certain that this is a big issue and we’d like to have more games played before making a call, it would be great to discuss this further.
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Give us Automatchmaking for the testmap to make reliable test games on similar skill levels.
There is no way mech is too strong, right now. Cyclones are not cost effective. Siege Tank Fire indeed is strong.
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On September 03 2016 06:11 Zulu23 wrote:
Give us Automatchmaking for the testmap to make reliable test games on similar skill levels.
There is no way mech is too strong, right now. Cyclones are not cost effective. Siege Tank Fire indeed is strong.
vs zerg it's probably too strong right now because of tank buff + ravager nerf + broodlord range nerf which are all massive.
60 damage tanks should be tested instead of 70.
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I wonder whether they will ever not pussy out on a meaningful tank damage buff.
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I don't think theres enough data, very few games have been played in the map and even less by high lever players.
We need to wait for matchmaking.
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I guess the most weird thing is that they have already come to a conclusion that mech is too strong based on 2 weeks in a test map that pros don't even play and doesn't even have a matchmaking. Maybe, just maybe, they should try let it sink for a while? Or try to get pros to play it and only THEN provide conclusions on it?
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I don't like the adept vision nerf because it makes shading quite coinflippy because you don't know if you're shading near banelings or something.
HP nerf/shade cooldown change/DPS nerf would be better.
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On September 03 2016 06:25 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't like the adept vision nerf because it makes shading quite coinflippy
They're just trying to keep it in line with the Protoss theme 
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On September 03 2016 06:19 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2016 06:11 Zulu23 wrote:
Give us Automatchmaking for the testmap to make reliable test games on similar skill levels.
There is no way mech is too strong, right now. Cyclones are not cost effective. Siege Tank Fire indeed is strong. vs zerg it's probably too strong right now because of tank buff + ravager nerf + broodlord range nerf which are all massive. 60 damage tanks should be tested instead of 70.
I don't think ravagers are supposed to be the composition to face mech in the test map. Hydras and infestors were buffed so maybe that's the new way to fight mech alongside vipers?
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Part of the problem is that everything mech including tanks is buffed. Everything that counters mech is nerfed. Also bio is weakened in general since bio counters like banelings are also buffed. The original proposed balance changes just made no sense, so the probably had an idea of what changes they wanted and now they are just playing it out slowly, changing it to how they really wanted it, with disregard.
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On September 03 2016 06:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Part of the problem is that everything mech including tanks is buffed. Everything that counters mech is nerfed. Also bio is weakened in general since bio counters like banelings are also buffed. The original proposed balance changes just made no sense, so the probably had an idea of what changes they wanted and now they are just playing it out slowly, changing it to how they really wanted it, with disregard.
Well, wasn't one point of the design changes trying to make mech viable? You do realize that mech isn't viable in the current version, right? So, logically, mech is buffed in the test map, and some of its strongest counters are nerfed. Maybe they overdid? Sure, but I think it's too soon to tell that.
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Why (does Blizzard) don't organize a Test map tournament with a 1000$ prize pool to get Public attention and some pros playing it on competitive level....
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Italy12248 Posts
I hate the nerf to shade vision because it removes the adept's scouting and doens't do that much for jumping adepts between mineral lines in the midgame. I'd prefer a shade cooldown nerf.
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Why not reducing the shade vision constantly over the time, from 9 to 2?
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 03 2016 06:42 Teoita wrote:
I hate the nerf to shade vision because it removes the adept's scouting and doens't do that much for jumping adepts between mineral lines in the midgame. I'd prefer a shade cooldown nerf.
Agreed. Blizzard tries too hard at preserving what they think is cool about the unit, instead of addressing the root problem. Same thing with the warp prism. It's the pick up range that's the problem, an hp nerf only makes the unit more coin-flippy.
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On September 03 2016 06:25 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't like the adept vision nerf because it makes shading quite coinflippy because you don't know if you're shading near banelings or something.
HP nerf/shade cooldown change/DPS nerf would be better.
Doesn't that mean you need skill using the shade? With a vision of 2, you don't know if the base you are shading to will have reinforcements or not. The only way you will know is if you have an observer. And that is a good thing.
I personally think the vision change will make Adepts much less powerful in lesser players, but better players will still excel.
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On September 03 2016 07:16 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2016 06:25 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't like the adept vision nerf because it makes shading quite coinflippy because you don't know if you're shading near banelings or something.
HP nerf/shade cooldown change/DPS nerf would be better.
Doesn't that mean you need skill using the shade? With a vision of 2, you don't know if the base you are shading to will have reinforcements or not. The only way you will know is if you have an observer. And that is a good thing. I personally think the vision change will make Adepts much less powerful in lesser players, but better players will still excel.
I think it just makes things more gimicky tbh.
For example: PvZ you usually shade with your adept into their base to see if they're all inning but now you prob won't see their tech with the lower vision. Or the zerg just hides their units so when you shade in they surround them and they all die. I'm not sure what kind of skill will be added. Just more gimicky games. Banshee speed is silly too.
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Warp prisms should be able to destroyed in one shot by widow mines.
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wow that adept change makes harassment so useless and scouting as well, u see always nothing and have to gamble to let the shade finish or not.
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I'd like to see Siege Tanks' cooldown increased from 2.8 to 3.0 before a reduction in their damage. Also, either return Ravagers to unarmored, or restructure their health a bit. Personally, I like the idea of lowering their health slightly and giving them fairly beefy armor, like perhaps a default of 3. The combination of Ravager nerf and Siege Tank buff is a bit too much, but I still like it better overall than the current live version of LotV.
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EPT
