EPTCommunity Feedback Update - 9/2 - Page 11
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insitelol
845 Posts
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AlphaAeffchen
110 Posts
Hey man i know we have different opinions. But we both love the game. Perhaps we can meet in the middle. I also dont want that mech gets to strong. But Terran really needs more diverse playstyles and mech was really fun to play in the Lotv beta. Man the game really needs changes ot it goes down the hill look at the twitch numbers and look at the broodwar numbers on this page....Pls accept at least some gameplay changes for terran. | ||
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AlphaAeffchen
110 Posts
I have a question do you like that everey Terran game is always 80%Bio +x. No mech Play. No possible other strategies. Always the same core Units..... Sorry this makes me rage. You cant explore the game depth if there is only one major playstyle for your race. Look Avilos stream look at HTO Mario or look at Ruff they also say the same. Blizzard will do big changes and Lotv needs it, because the multiplayers garbage at the moment for Terrans. Look at Hero Marine he also says it. Man at least be open to test changes. The game needs it or we have a poor Starcraft in 2017. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On September 08 2016 22:21 petro1987 wrote: What's your level of knowledge in BW? Are you familiar with Flash's double armory 2/1 build in TvP? He pushes around 170 supply with what you would call a "deathball". It's harder to control, of course, due to the 12 unit grouping. Mech units do clump a lot in BW, not as much as in SC2, but they do clump. In fact, you have to babysit your units a lot, splitting them, otherwise a good stasis will wreck you. The reason people are OK with mech in BW is not really about the raw power that it brings in a deathball. It's because mech has several weaknesses that can be exploited. Recalls, stasis, zealot bombs, caughting them badly sieged, flanking, etc. I think introducing overkill in tanks is something they should explore in SC2. It would open up a lot possibilities to fighting a mech army. That's kind of the point isn't it? Compared to BroodWar turtling with mech is very easy in itself and then controlling said deathball is also much more easier. I think I have developed some points in page 9 about why I believe (and I might be wrong, I can accept that!) mech in SC2 cannot leads to similar mech games as BroodWar, which I believe is due to some core design of SC2 (its economy, units interactions, pathing, tanks too "reliable" ). I have limited knowledge of BroodWar but I did really enjoyed the mech game on it, but I have never enjoyed mech in any of starcraft2 iteration except very few TvT games against bio. I feel like mech in sc2 can only be 1/ turtle-ish cancer style or 2/ 1 big (but unique) strong timing attack. Not a big fan of option 2, but that's okay in my book, I can live with that. Option 1 is just plain awful to me, as dumb in design as SwarmHost was, and I don't see a way to make agressive/mobile/active mech viable without making the much easier way of playing with turtling at least as much valid, if not stronger. I believe it was a philosophy of designing a game which was say by Liquid.Ret a few times ago on Twitter with which I agree : " @LiquidRet 14 août The idealogy of being fun to play/watch makes sense but I feel like 'what is fun to play against' is a stronger starting point in SC. " I completely agree with that. And turtling mech is for me the most boring and frustrating playstyle in whole Starcraft 2. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17147 Posts
i play 40% of my games as Terran and 60% of my games as Random. I"m at a diamond level with both accounts. i'm happy with the game. i can't speak for other levels of players and i don't think they should speak for me; nor should they claim they speak for the entire community. Despite playing more games as Terran its my worst race. I like playing as Terran the most even though my rank is the lowest with the race. I play with people who are substantially worse than I am and we have fun with 2v2s and other game variations and i try to help them with their 1v1 game. Generally speaking, the people I know who range from Silver to Diamond are happy with the game. my concern when LotV was released was that Terran air was too strong and Terran ground was too weak. over the course of several patches Blizzard addressed this concern. I'd say right now Terran air is very slightly too strong. But, that's being really nit-picky. Over all, i'm happy. DISCLAIMER: my complaint about Terran air still being slightly too strong could be due to the fact that low APM players are more comfortable with air units. for all i know.. .Terran air is exactly where it should be. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On September 09 2016 00:36 AlphaAeffchen wrote: @insitelol Hey man i know we have different opinions. But we both love the game. Perhaps we can meet in the middle. I also dont want that mech gets to strong. But Terran really needs more diverse playstyles and mech was really fun to play in the Lotv beta. Man the game really needs changes ot it goes down the hill look at the twitch numbers and look at the broodwar numbers on this page....Pls accept at least some gameplay changes for terran. Im not accepting anything you say cause its just constant repeating of one false statement that changing something always equals good. You just want to believe in this because this idea is so attractive and simple. But it's just a cheap trick to gain ones attention with something shiny, especially if it comes in the form "good ol' BW mech". This is called specualtion. I stated numerous times in this thread that i strongly believe balance changes will only scare dedicated players off, not attract new ones, like it was historically with all changes to SC2. So no, we DO NOT need more diversity, DO NOT need more playstyles. These things ARE NOT what makes an RTS gameplay. And we can't meet in the middle. | ||
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AlphaAeffchen
110 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On September 09 2016 00:53 AlphaAeffchen wrote: @Jimmy Raynor I have a question do you like that everey Terran game is always 80%Bio +x. No mech Play. No possible other strategies. Always the same core Units..... Sorry this makes me rage. You cant explore the game depth if there is only one major playstyle for your race. Look Avilos stream look at HTO Mario or look at Ruff they also say the same. Blizzard will do big changes and Lotv needs it, because the multiplayers garbage at the moment for Terrans. Look at Hero Marine he also says it. Man at least be open to test changes. The game needs it or we have a poor Starcraft in 2017. It's funny you say : mech isn't viable, and you quote some players that manage to get GM with mech ! Aslo it's important to note that these players who are used to play mech for years, have shown nothing during the period where mech was very strong and played on GSL/best tournament. Then these players don't have special skill at all. It's perfectly possible to any T to play mech and reach GM : Avilo &co just prove it ! Unless you want to be progamer, you can play mech right now. If you loose you can fix that with more train, and you don't need any patch to play mech ! | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
With that being said it is definitely possible that they overshoot the changes to mech, or the nerfs to bio. because of the way sc2 works often even a few tweeks can really change the game because of how it affects timings, possible builds, and defensive holds thats why a small queen range buff was able to lead directly to broodlord infestor. Mabye mech is jsut straight up to strong, mabey 40 hp bane busts will constrain a bio terran to hard in tvz, maybe terran is way to bad agianst cheese without tankivacs or to good with strong tanks and cylones who knows. That's why bliz is releasing these changes with a ladder to test them out. once they see some play if things seem out of whack they can dile it back just give it some time let it get tested let them make changes things will probably get worked out. | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
Pure Robo, Pure Skytoss, Pure Missile Attack Zerg should be viable for variety. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
On September 12 2016 07:43 parkufarku wrote: Going by OP's logic, pure Nydus invasion should be viable because it "adds more gameplay" Pure Robo, Pure Skytoss, Pure Missile Attack Zerg should be viable for variety. Then go ahead,demand whatever you want,who's stopping you ? Mech players want mech become viable and blizzard aggree...hell they even promised us. Then why zerg/protoss players can't do the same ???? Go ahead,its it their decison not us and i glad they keep their promise even it may cause other players leave this game but i don't give a fuck anymore LUL. I just don't....I tried to argue about why mech must be viable,once but i realized you can't argue with other people if they like or hate something. I am tired of this, this dicussion about mech each year.... TLDR: Make mech viable,take the risk and of course make it more turtling. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
Terran decreted SH were boring, then the unit is more or less deleted. They say SH promote turtle play and boring games, but mech is exactly the same ! Tank is played on all terran MU as a support unit so why do you need 20 sieged tank/PF/autoturett turtle ? If mech is cool so let's go back to the old SH : they promise zerg a new unit ! | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On September 12 2016 17:03 Tyrhanius wrote: So old SH back ? Terran decreted SH were boring, then the unit is more or less deleted. They say SH promote turtle play and boring games, but mech is exactly the same ! Tank is played on all terran MU as a support unit so why do you need 20 sieged tank/PF/autoturett turtle ? If mech is cool so let's go back to the old SH : they promise zerg a new unit ! "it's for the amazing positional play of course ! " | ||
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KOtical
Germany451 Posts
On September 12 2016 17:03 Tyrhanius wrote: So old SH back ? Terran decreted SH were boring, then the unit is more or less deleted. They say SH promote turtle play and boring games, but mech is exactly the same ! Tank is played on all terran MU as a support unit so why do you need 20 sieged tank/PF/autoturett turtle ? If mech is cool so let's go back to the old SH : they promise zerg a new unit ! god please not... i think most people dont wanna see 3 hour long stalemate games again... | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17147 Posts
On September 11 2016 04:44 Tyrhanius wrote: Then these players don't have special skill at all. It's perfectly possible to any T to play mech and reach GM : Avilo &co just prove it ! good point. i remember MVP going mech when his wrists/hands were fucked. | ||
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petro1987
Brazil374 Posts
On September 12 2016 21:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote: good point. i remember MVP going mech when his wrists/hands were fucked. It's perfectly possible to any P to play P and reach GM! It's perfectly possible to any Z to play Z and reach GM! Man, this logic is so perfect! | ||
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cmdspinner1
140 Posts
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KOtical
Germany451 Posts
On September 12 2016 07:43 parkufarku wrote: Going by OP's logic, pure Nydus invasion should be viable because it "adds more gameplay" Pure Robo, Pure Skytoss, Pure Missile Attack Zerg should be viable for variety. every race has more viable options to play than Terran. Terran can only mix it up between mmm+tank, mmm+mines,mmm+ libs... u have some different openings (hellion openings, wm drops etc.) wich actually all lead into those comps.(viable late game options are ghosts, vikings, raven (not sure about the thor so far...)) Terran has the worst late game comps coz they kinda stuck in tier 1-2 as for zerg u have the option to go zergling based or roach based compositions, mid game options like roach ravenger or roach hydra or ling bane + mutas. with a wide variety of viable late game options (brutelords, infestors, corruptors, vipers and ultras) protoss does have the widest variety of comps to go. from pure adepts + warp prism to blink stalker all ins, oracle or dt openings and so on, usually goes to gate + robo or gate + templar or gate + stargate (the least viable option) with the strongest late game comps vs T + Terran is usually behind economy wise, terrans need to get early dmg so they can be even or ahead of the enemies economy. another reason for mech beeing not that viable coz mech takes morf time to build up compared to bio. that just my oppinion... | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
My only point is: the game is fairly balanced right now (win percentage wise, and we have all races represented in tournaments - T, P and Z), with a strong buff to mech units one has to consider how this would impact the rest of the game.. For instance, see Byun pushes with marines+tanks vs protoss, with a much much stronger tank they become more powerful (with the caveat that there is no medivac pick up), and this needs to be balanced. I'm not saying it won't be (since medivacs were a strong component to ferry the tanks) but it needs to be studied, and it's not trivial to conclude  | ||
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