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On September 06 2016 01:26 VonComet wrote:
After about 50 testgames at master level I can report some of my observations:
-bio still feels very viable in TvT, strong tanks help zone giant mech armies from freely getting up close and sieging up so the buff somewhat works for the bio player too, along with the big bio buff that was lotv econ changes. Bio vs mech tvt is sadly showing a tendancy to go into mass air games later on.
-a noticable improvment in TvP mech viability tho not quite there yet. You can now use cyclones to control the earlygame and prevent the P player from securing a super fast 3rd base (cyclones could be OP vs protoss if paired with bio play)
-I have no idea how to manage mass swarmhost armies as a mech player, this alone makes me feel like TvZ mech is the farthest away from true viability out of all 3 matchups
And a sidenote: It's very obvious that the people constantly going on and on about Avilo's character and trying to discredit him based on personality have no real arguments or seemingly even the capacity to think critically for themselves.
i think the general consensus was that we welcome anyone we argues with data and specific things that others can also try to verify. If Avilo does so, then we welcome and thank him, otherwise, no. This works with anyone and everyone, it's just that Avilo's one of those people with an image that does not really correlate with what TL wants in its forums.
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On September 07 2016 18:06 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 14:11 parkufarku wrote:
You Terrans are so spoiled, you already have the most units in the game No, that would be Protoss, even without discounting battlecruisers which are made in less competitive matches than swarm hosts.
pretty darn viable in lower leagues and even upper leagues in late game tho, whereas swarmhosts are a little more tricky to pull off
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On September 07 2016 17:58 AlphaAeffchen wrote:
@ Vandiel
It is not about one unit it is about an entire playstyle. Again everey other race can do completly different styles Terran can only play bio +x competitive.
Swarmhost is a completly different Story (you had to build ravens because terran could not counter it with mech only Units). This was a stupid turtle fest.
When we have our mech buffs terran can play agressive mech!
Blizzard said that they will buff terran mech units in some way. The only question is how strong the buffs have to be.
We will get a viable mech style deal with it!
When? You already have big buff for mech in this patch, up to the point where it's might already be way too strong, but it's never enough for mech player. It's not even mechanical -based units they want, it's even more limited to factory units, and even more specifically, it has to be massing tank. They have one specific playstyle they want to play, that has to be viable across all levels of the ladder, against all races and the whole game has to be adjusted specifically for this. You don't see Zerg player requesting big buff on the lurker ( also it fits the "amazing positional play" argument) to be viable against terrans, or protoss players saying that they can't do robot tech only composition.
Yes, SwarmHost was boring to play against (and, at least for me, to play with it). Yet, it was a completely different playstyle, showing that diversity for the sake of diversity is not necessary a good thing when the playstyle is boring. And you have to acknowledge that mech IS boring and frustrating to play against for a lot of people. And it's not because "they don't understand real mech", or haven't watched enough BroodWar to understand how amazing mech in BW was" (and it was). It's a legit criticism based on personal experience on the ladder and as a spectator.
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On September 07 2016 18:15 swissman777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 18:06 Elentos wrote:On September 07 2016 14:11 parkufarku wrote:
You Terrans are so spoiled, you already have the most units in the game No, that would be Protoss, even without discounting battlecruisers which are made in less competitive matches than swarm hosts. pretty darn viable in lower leagues and even upper leagues in late game tho, whereas swarmhosts are a little more tricky to pull off
I've not made a battlecruiser on purpose for like 2 years.
Regardless, Protoss has the biggest arsenal.
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@Vanadiel
Ok now i go into detail (but pls then be open for a discussion).
I give you an example for terran gameplay at the moment.
Everey style is bio +x. This means mmm+liberator or stupid tankivacs or widowmines. Terran has no lategame options. Terran has to win in midgame or he is dead (well tat least in 95% of the games)!
TvT is only about Tankivacs no positional play. TvT was way better in hots and wol because you had more playstyles.
Do you think that it is ok. Mech is not playable at pro Level. Everey game looks nearly the same.
Blizzard said also that Terran has not many Options (we have no lategame!)
Diversity is important for the game and for viewership (yes swarmhosts were a problem but than they have to redesign the unit). So give terrans a playstyle that is more positional based. Its only boring to play against because you cant push out with mech because its to weak. And stop saying all the time that mech players only want to play with factory units. The most units come from factory yes but you still need raven support or viking support. Also you drop sometimes with a dropship and so on. The most Units from bio come from the barracks. So stop this stupid Argument its completly wrong.
We could achieve the glorious days of broodwar mech in someway if we get mech to a viable playstyle.
Here are the zerg styles:
Ling baneling Muta
Roach Ravager
Hydra Lurker roach
Sky zerg
Ultra Ling
Here are the toss styles
Many different Gateway centric syles like Blink Stalker mass Adept into Templar.
Robo centric styles many immortals collossi.with Gateway Support.
Sky toss.
Here are the Terran styles at the moment.
80 % Bio Units +x. In everey game the same playstyle. Boring to watch and to play!
Many players stopped to play the game because of this and this will change.
Again its no the question if mech gets buffs. The question is how strong the mech buffs will have to be! We will get a patch and this stupid meta will change!
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On September 07 2016 18:59 AlphaAeffchen wrote:
@Vanadiel
Ok now i go into detail (but pls then be open for a discussion).
Oh I am open for discussion, and to be honest I'd love to be wrong about mech and so on, because Starcraft is a game that I love playing so I hope it won't be as I fear it will be because it will definitely drive me away from it.
I give you an example for terran gameplay at the moment.
Everey style is bio +x. This means mmm+liberator or stupid tankivacs or widowmines. Terran has no lategame options. Terran has to win in midgame or he is dead (well tat least in 95% of the games)!
TvT is only about Tankivacs no positional play. TvT was way better in hots and wol because you had more playstyles.
Do you think that it is ok. Mech is not playable at pro Level. Everey game looks nearly the same.
Okay first of, I do not fully agree with it. Mech seems viable in TvT, at least in Korea you see more and more mech play nowadays. For TvZ and TvP, I agree, it's almost only bio + X. But the "+X" is always miss leading and does not represent, to me, the full variety of terran's strategy which is underappreciated. Bio+tanks, bio liberator, bio mines (and to some extent, the new bio cyclone opening / or all-in in TvP) are all three in TvP and TvZ, and they have all their own rhythm, their own strategy and interaction with your opponent army. Further, the strategy in the game is not limited to the composition: I'm really amazed, specifically in TvP I'd say, how sometimes the same composition (says bio liberator) leads to very different games because the timings of their key units and their usage has been different. I mean, when I see Byun vs Dear series, except the banshee opening all the games have been with the same sets of units, but it was a very strategically diverse series of games in my opinion.
If any, I'd say that Zerg is the more limited strategically in the game, especially in ZvT. There are very few all-in or timings that you can do, you may have two main different composition (ling bane muta and roach ravager) but the choices you can do with are fairly limited. In both case, the main strategy is just to survive until ultralisk.
Blizzard said also that Terran has not many Options (we have no lategame!)
Diversity is important for the game and for viewership (yes swarmhosts were a problem but than they have to redesign the unit). So give terrans a playstyle that is more positional based. Its only boring to play against because you cant push out with mech because its to weak. And stop saying all the time that mech players only want to play with factory units. The most units come from factory yes but you still need raven support or viking support. Also you drop sometimes with a dropship and so on. The most Units from bio come from the barracks. So stop this stupid Argument its completly wrong.
Swarmhost were a problem because they were badly design and lead to boring play. But their redesign/removal from the game also was problematic at it has leads to a lot of mech (i.e. tank) securing a transition to skymech which were also extremely boring in my opnition. That's what I meant that diversity in composition is not an end in itself when it leads to uninteresting playstyle. As for positional play, I do believe and feel that the liberator has fulfil this role much more interestingly than the tank. I agree that mech player use viking and raven support, but what I often read on TL from mech players (even in this particular topic from the-one-which-should-not-be-named) is that they don't want that and want better AA so they don't have to build starport units. So please keep it civilized and don't call it stupid.
We could achieve the glorious days of broodwar mech in someway if we get mech to a viable playstyle.
That's the main point I disagree. I do not believe mech as BW is ever going to happen in Starcraft 2 (and I'll repeat, but I'd love to be wrong), because :
1/ the tanks in SC2 are just too "smart" and reliable. There are no room to play against it with ground army (if they are strong obviously, not the current weak version). This has been heavilly discussed so nothing new, but the "stupidity" of BW tank was exploitable by its opponent and it was much more demanding for the terran player. There was a much more interesting dynamics. That's mainly why I consider the Liberator as a much better unit to fullfil this role : it's extremely strong, but it's much more difficult to position correctly for the terran players and can be better circumvented by the opponent.
2/ The economy: while it's better with LoTV as it forces to expand regularly, it's still fondamently different from BroodWar, because it gives you no economical advantage if you spread your 60-70 drones/VCS across 5 bases or 3, meaning you can't swarm with superior economy a defensive opponent.
So to be, it's not a question about wether the tank is weak or strong itself, but the way it is design does not fit in how the game is fondamentaly design. That's why I actually liked, even though it was far from perfect, the tankivacs, because it gave it a role which fits in the game, even though it was not the one which was initially design.
Here are the zerg styles:
Ling baneling Muta
Roach Ravager
Hydra Lurker roach
Sky zerg
Ultra Ling
Here are the toss styles
Many different Gateway centric syles like Blink Stalker mass Adept into Templar.
Robo centric styles many immortals collossi.with Gateway Support.
Sky toss.
Here are the Terran styles at the moment.
80 % Bio Units +x. In everey game the same playstyle. Boring to watch and to play!
I think I already answered these ! But the way you described protoss playstyle could be done exactly the same way as you described terran playstyle: Gateways units + X. You'd agree that is really reductive and simplified, right?
Many players stopped to play the game because of this and this will change.
Again its no the question if mech gets buffs. The question is how strong the mech buffs will have to be! We will get a patch and this stupid meta will change!
The question about how many people stop playing, why, is vast and I think it's a jump to conclusion exactly why it is like this. The only thing I can say for sure, however, is that at least one player will stop playing if I hit turtle mech player on the ladder, but I might not be the only one too.
ps : very short story about what it means to play against mech in late HoTS for me : I was mid master at the time, played against a 50 apm mech player on the three players map (don't remember the name). I alt tabbed, watched a tv show, and it took him something like 20 minutes to realize there was no opponent in the game. That's the kind of "active" player I was hitting regularly at the time, and if not for the LoTV beta I would have leave Starcraft 2.
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@Vanadiel
Pls read this i posted this in an another thread this explains why Terran gameplay is so boring at the Moment and needs changes.
The cyclone problem
We got a new unit the cyclone which made agressive mech play viable. It was fun to play and to watch. I agree that this unit was to strong in beta but then the balance team made the unit complete useless. The cyclone at the moment is not playable (i know 1 for defense thats it). This unit needs drastic changes to be viable. The patch changed the cost (and the supply rofl) but thats not the change the unit needed! The cyclone needs more health!
If this unit is to strong and it doesnt work bring back the Goliath thats was what many players suggestet! And give us a real option against air units from the factory!
The Liberator problem
The second new unit for terrans is way to strong because it overshines everey other terran unit. I know terran needs them or they cant win against protoss or zerg in 90% of the games played. The problem is that this leeds to mass air battles in lategame which are cancer for the game. Sometimes i feel that i play legacey of the liberators. The ground attack mode of the liberator needs to be turned down to make more room for other units in the terran arsenal like the siegetank. Also i think its not fun for the other races to play against this unit in nearly everey matchup against terran.
The Tankivac problem
Its not fun to play in everey TvT against marine tank. In many TvTs the only question is who can doomdrop the other faster with his army. Also this mechanic blocks development for mech mechanics because the tank cant be buffed or changed. We said many many times that we want changes for the siegetank and we got nothing! Also i think its not fun for the other races to play against siegetank drops!
The Bio problem in general
Terran gameplay is designed around Bio. You have to build marines and medivacs in everey matchup if you want to play competitive. In broodwar terran had the option to go mech in everey matchup. Now its not possible to play it in any matchup. I know there are terrans who like to play bio. Thats absolutly ok but there has to be room for other playstyles for terrans in competitive gaming. Everey other race has different playstyles here a the examples:
Zerg: Ling Baneling Muta, Roach Ravager, Roach Hydra Lurker, Ultra Ling, Broodlord Corrupter roach
Protoss: Many different Gateway styles, Robo centric styles, Skytoss
Terran: 90% Bio + X. This is a big problem its not fun to play and to watch in everey game where terran is involved to see the same bio style again and again and again! W
The Tempest problem
Protoss needs the tempest to beat liberators i know that but its nearly impossible to beat protoss in lategame because of this unit. Terran cant engage in the perfect protoss army (and no ghosts are not the solution). If protoss gets to the point where he has mass tempest+x its nearly impossible for terran to win the game. Also its not fun to play against mass tempest for all races!
The Adept
I like this unit in general but if there is a warp prism and you have to run after the adepts and they shade away its realyl fustrating. The shades should have a higher cooldown at least. So the protoss has to think when to use the shade ability and not spam it all the time!
The Pylon cannon
Its really fustrating to play against this. I know that protoss needs this unit to survive the earlygame (which is also stupid design by the way). But if he plays an agressive push in early game its terrible to play against this garbage. Its not fun to see that pylons shoot at your base. At least allow protoss this unit only for defense and not for offense, This is cannon rush 2.0 and has nothing to do with strategy in any form. Pylon cannon for defense ok but not for offense.
Protoss in general
Protoss should get a complete redesign. Look at the protoss from broodwar there were so much fun interacting with the other races and micro involved. Now in most games the protss defends and trys to get his deathbaal ready for the final blow unfun to play and to watch!
The Nydus warm problem
I know that nydus worms where not viable before Lotv. But to play against the invincible nyduswarms is not fun and its gimmicky. Perhaps there can be other oprions to make this strategy viable (cost reduction).
Terran has no lategame and many useless units
As Terran you have to win against Zerg or Protoss in midgame. Its nearly impossible for terran to win in lategame.
I know that protoss and zerg have a hard mid game (which is also a problem). But its not ok that terran has absolutly no really options in lategame.
Battlecruiser: Complete garbage (even not usable in TvT)
Cyclone: Complete garbage (i know 1 for defense lol)
Thor: Garbage (is only really viable against mutas and a boring unit)
Widow mine Playable but got nerved can only used most times for harrassment
Viking: Playable but does nothing against tempest or carriers (should be a factory unit).
Siegetank: Playable but only with stupid bio (blizzard nerved this unit into the ground)!
Terran has absolutly no lategame units.
The swarm host problem
This unit needs a complete redesign. And not just stat changes. Its not fun for any race to have a unit which you can not use like the cyclone.
The map pool
There are maps which favor allins and are terrible designed! Its interesting League of Legends has only 1 map and is the number 1 game on twitch. Just give us simple macro maps thats it. The focus should be on more important things (gamebalance and gameplay in general). Maps need to be simple and clear designed. If you want you can give us one different map per season which allows gimmicky playstyles but not 6 of eight maps!
Game is to much designed around air units
There are air units which are ok. Thesee are the light units like banshee viking, Mutas and phoenix.
Units like liberators Tempest Broodlords corrupter are to good. This leeds to mass air battles which are not fun to play and to watch. The focus should be on ground units for all races (ground battles are more strategical and more fun to watch). Air units should be more niche!
The game is not fun to watch and game is dying problem
Make the game fun to play (for all races). Than people will come back and we will get more viewers. We dont need to be number one on twitch but at least starcraft should be in the top ten games on twitch!
Starcraft is the best RTS but it needs some love and more updates (balance patches and updates).
Only Korrean Pros are asked about Balance
Thisn is a farce. Starcraft has a European scene and an American scene which has also good progamers they should be asked about the game and not only the Korrean scene (i know they are the best but the gab to the other pro gamers is closing). Its not ok to ask only Korrean pro gamers to make balance decisions.
The biggest problem: A balance team which only makes minor changes and is afraid to change gameplay and doesnt want to patch the game more often
After the release of Legacey of the Void we got 1 balance patch with minor changes! This stands for itself! Everey other E-sport title gets many many balance patches very often (look at LoL, look at Dota look at heroes of the storm). I know that its harder to balance an RTS game than a Moba but this is not the excuse to make only minor changes and patch the game six months after release only one time and ignore the community which makes good suggestions.
Its not always about balance its also about gameplay. The gameplay in Lotv is fustrating and the game needs help. We need constant changes and many patches to achieve good gameplay for all races.
Blizzard to something and patch your game more often and try constant Change.
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@ Vanadiel
I dont agree that zerg is strategical limited
TvZ
Ling Baneling Muta
Roach Ravager
Roach Hydra Lurker
Sky Zerg
Mass ling Drop style with baneling Drops
Nydus All inn with mass Queens
Everey lategame unit like Broodlord Viper and Ultralisk are viable.
Terran hast to win the midgame or gets doomed. Only playstyle bio as core Units with 10 to 20 percent Support Units. Everey other race has more strategic Options.
Zerg is the best designed race in the game.
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@ Vandadiel
Also your Argument about economey is wrong.
If your oponent palyxs mech and turtles you have 3 Options as zerg.
Attack him evereywhere on different Points.
Turtle inalso into lategame Units and win.
Take the whole map and deny Terran to spread out!
The economey is better than in broodwar because you have to expand agressive because your bases mine out faster. 3 base cap doesnt matter here!
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@ Vanadiel
Sorry but your also wrong about protoss playstyle. Protoss can play diffrent core units like adepts or blinkstalker into many different styles like robo centric styles or skytoss.
Terran can only play bio as corestyle. Everey other race has more core Units and completly different playtyles thats a Problem.
Also you cant turtle with mech against good players because of the new economey. So if you buff Tanks and cylcones we can play agressive. Turtle style would be Auto loss any way against decent players.
And pls yes i know that there are about 5-10 games in TvT in Korea which involves mech but Tankivac destroyed the beauty of TvT in general because you can correct your positioning of tanks and correct everey wrong choice. Starcaft is not only about APM its also about strategy it should be amix of both = Real Time Strategy
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On September 07 2016 22:10 AlphaAeffchen wrote:
@ Vandadiel
Also your Argument about economey is wrong.
If your oponent palyxs mech and turtles you have 3 Options as zerg.
Attack him evereywhere on different Points.
Turtle inalso into lategame Units and win.
Take the whole map and deny Terran to spread out!
The economey is better than in broodwar because you have to expand agressive because your bases mine out faster. 3 base cap doesnt matter here!
Just for the sake of argument, and for your 3 previous post. Mech in bw was a bit like bio now. There is only one choice in tvp and it s mech. Bio, aside from proxy and all ins cannot be used. In the same way, tvt quickly turns to mech. So you could argue T didnt have diversity yet it was fun (ok, that may not be universally shared for tvt).
I stopped lotv because zerg was boring. I felt i didnt have many options but mostly the problem was it wasnt fun.
Now i d like to see mech too, but for instance, air play should be changed (i m talking about VR, carriers and banshees to a lesser extent, not mutas/oracles/libs), and perhaps maps should be adjusted. But withouth things like the defiler, it ll be hard. Viper is too easily stopped
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On September 07 2016 22:22 AlphaAeffchen wrote:
@ Vanadiel
Sorry but your also wrong about protoss playstyle. Protoss can play diffrent core units like adepts or blinkstalker into many different styles like robo centric styles or skytoss.
Terran can only play bio as corestyle. Everey other race has more core Units and completly different playtyles thats a Problem.
Also you cant turtle with mech against good players because of the new economey. So if you buff Tanks and cylcones we can play agressive. Turtle style would be Auto loss any way against decent players.
And pls yes i know that there are about 5-10 games in TvT in Korea which involves mech but Tankivac destroyed the beauty of TvT in general because you can correct your positioning of tanks and correct everey wrong choice. Starcaft is not only about APM its also about strategy it should be amix of both = Real Time Strategy
Honestly I feel comparing P and T in regard of variety of units composition is not correct 
Protoss doesn't have two (or three, or more) completely different units composition, like it could be for bio vs mech: you always start from a gatway heavy early-to-midgame, and transition to teach-heavy compositions where the main difference is the central tech unit you choose (archon+immortal, immortal+disruptor, templars, etc.) and finally you go with air in the lategame.
I'm not saying P has less options, just that the variety of options P has is not comparable to terran: there are many different "styles" which are however more similar to each other.
One good example is the fact that for P you share upgrades for all ground units, while for T you have different upgrade paths for bio and mech (and this makes the 2 composition really really opposite, it's almost impossible to switch).
(this is not at all a complaint! I'm just saying that a direct comparison is, imho, not really fair - they are different races with different features..)
I'm absolutely in favor of having mech as a viable strong option, however I would not like to see it replace bio completely. I feel this is the most tricky and difficult part: to have bio and mech equally strong and internally balanced.
If you quote BW as a "glorious example", in BW bio was not really viable as a lategame composition vs protoss, so you have the same issue..
As a P player I would love to face both bio and mech (it's much more fun to have to scout, determine what your opponent is doing, prepare different counters, etc.) - right now I agree that when I play vs Terran, *if I manage to survive the very early game (I'm pretty bad so I often loose to early cyclone-tank-lib pushes)* I already know what I'm going to face: bio + liberators.. so I always go heavy gateway into tempests, with templar support
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@ VHbb
Very good post. Your absolutly right bio should be viable too.
But in BW w it was possible to Play Bio against zerg even in lategame (with support units).
Well about protoss i feel that he can Play more diverse getway styles. Yes i know that terran can mix many Units into bio but it feels always like the same strategy. I think thats different when you Play protoss because your core Units change.
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@WGT-Baal
You are absolutly right about air play. And yes BW was more mech centric but it was more strategic and deverse gameplay. Also we didnt have the cancer mass air battles we have know in many games.
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On September 07 2016 23:28 AlphaAeffchen wrote:
@ VHbb
Very good post. Your absolutly right bio should be viable too.
But in BW w it was possible to Play Bio against zerg even in lategame (with support units).
Well about protoss i feel that he can Play more diverse getway styles. Yes i know that terran can mix many Units into bio but it feels always like the same strategy. I think thats different when you Play protoss because your core Units change.
I admit I'm not very expert on BW, my comment was coming mainly from hearing tastosis' cast of the recent ASL tournament where they talked a bit about the different styles good to know bio was somewhat viable as well, this gives hope that it can be achieved for sc2 as well!
I agree (at least from P point of view) that the styles P has feels more diverse, though I also feel that (unless you go air) P doesn't have the possibility to choose between 2 opposite gameplay / styles - you always start from a core of GW units (but I think it's fair - different races different designs)
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On September 07 2016 23:31 AlphaAeffchen wrote:
@WGT-Baal
You are absolutly right about air play. And yes BW was more mech centric but it was more strategic and deverse gameplay. Also we didnt have the cancer mass air battles we have know in many games.
Then we agree air should be fixed before mech van ve tweaked
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On September 07 2016 16:52 AlphaAeffchen wrote:
Hi,
Terran has only one viable playstyle which is mass bio +x. Mech has to be viable. It makes the game more strategic and fun to play for all races!
Everey other race is more fun at the Moment because they have more viable unit compositions to play.
The terran mech play style is important for starcraft and has to be vibale. Also this will bring Players back to the game like HTO Mario.
Blizzard pls dont nerf the tank let the meta settle and patch the game!
Lol, always that stupid same argument "it makes for more variety." I'm sick of hearing it. You don't see Protoss players complaining they can't do pure Robo builds. If they could, it would also "make the game more strategic and fun to play for all races!"
It's only fun for you because you have more variety of openers while the other races suffer having to spend more resources to guess what you're doing and react accordingly.
For the last time, Terran mech does NOT have to be viable, AT ALL. It will actually kill the game faster because making Terran openers more possible and giving them more choices (which makes the other races suffer) will make one race superior to another in the long-run, which leads to an unbalanced game.
Tank nerf should only be the beginning.
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On September 07 2016 18:59 AlphaAeffchen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Here are the zerg styles:
Ling baneling Muta
Roach Ravager
Hydra Lurker roach
Sky zerg
Ultra Ling
Here are the toss styles
Many different Gateway centric syles like Blink Stalker mass Adept into Templar.
Robo centric styles many immortals collossi.with Gateway Support.
Sky toss.
Here are the Terran styles at the moment.
80 % Bio Units +x. In everey game the same playstyle. Boring to watch and to play! Many players stopped to play the game because of this and this will change. Again its no the question if mech gets buffs. The question is how strong the mech buffs will have to be! We will get a patch and this stupid meta will change!
I think you messed up your explanation for how the various styles are categorized.
It looks more like:
+ Show Spoiler +Zerg styles:
80% Hatchery units + X (X = Mutas, Ultras, Hydras, etc...)
Protoss style:
80% Gateway units + X (X = Immortals, Colossi, Disruptors, etc....)
and finally the Terran styles:
Marine, Marauder, Medivac Liberator
Marine, Tank, Medivac, Liberator
Marauder, Medivac, Liberator
Hellion, Cyclone, WIdow Mine, Tank, Liberator, Banshee
Banshee, Liberator, Viking, Raven
Marauder, Hellbat, Medivac, Tank/Liberator
There we go. That looks a little less biased. Oh wait, no it doesn't. It just looks like a mirror reflection of what you posted...
Isn't it kinda funny how having a preconceived viewpoint can cause one to manipulate the facts to support one's own argument?
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On September 03 2016 07:38 NutriaKaiN wrote:
wow that adept change makes harassment so useless and scouting as well, u see always nothing and have to gamble to let the shade finish or not.
Blizzard knows how to roll the dice when it comes to game design. Too bad they are playing against the house.
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Before listening to WinterSC about his opinions about Mech(being too strong) its worth to take in consideration that he mostly plays balance test mod vs bronze to gold league viewers of his own.
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EPT
