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On September 04 2016 02:55 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
So like most people and streamars said.
Mech is to strong because you buffed mech while also nerfing its counters.... you really whent full retard as usual.
Balance needs baby steps.
Im still in favor of buffing Zerg and Protoss instead of nerfing Terran.
Revert the nerf to Ravager and BroodLord
Lower cost for Hydra and a give a bit more HP
Lower cost and supply for Vipers
Revert nerf for Tempest but back to 6 supply
Adepts Shade nerfed , longer cooldown
Immortals Barrier nerfed
Buff to Zealot vs armored
How about we start from that ?
so glad you fixed starcraft with a single post
hope blizzard just hired you and fire all the rest of his staff, after all they are "full retard as usual"
.....
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Infestor and Adept change is the right direction. Adept change is maybe too extreme and should be shades duration or cooldown. Balance the defense and harassment options against mech in other ways.
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On September 04 2016 03:57 VHbb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2016 02:55 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
So like most people and streamars said.
Mech is to strong because you buffed mech while also nerfing its counters.... you really whent full retard as usual.
Balance needs baby steps.
Im still in favor of buffing Zerg and Protoss instead of nerfing Terran.
Revert the nerf to Ravager and BroodLord
Lower cost for Hydra and a give a bit more HP
Lower cost and supply for Vipers
Revert nerf for Tempest but back to 6 supply
Adepts Shade nerfed , longer cooldown
Immortals Barrier nerfed
Buff to Zealot vs armored
How about we start from that ? so glad you fixed starcraft with a single post hope blizzard just hired you and fire all the rest of his staff, after all they are "full retard as usual" .....
While my coment was very offensive.
You got to admit , buffing a unit and nerfing its counters at the same time is the dumbest thing possible.
When has that method ever work ?
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I totally agree with what people are saying about the the nerf to the ravager. Buff tanks and nerf ravagers it doesn't make any sense.
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Bah I trust blizzard on this matter
I think they over-buff mech (or over-nerf its counters) to have it more tested on the balance map
Also reading TL you see everything and the opposite: people complain about mech OP, zerg lategame OP, adepts OP, etc.etc. basically in these community news threads everybody try to whine about the other 2 races to get some buffs for its own.
I really would like more if Blizzard didn't release these kind of statements and just proceeded to balance the game as they see fit, maybe talking with pros to get some feedback
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mech is too strong? and here I'm reading about Avilo complaining it's too weak still
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On September 04 2016 07:38 emc wrote:
mech is too strong? and here I'm reading about Avilo complaining it's too weak still
Well avilo's avilo. From my impression of him, he really is not your go-to gamer for design choices
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well I mean if they could just ban all the stream snipers and maphackers that build their careers on playing vs avilo, he probably would be one of the GSL code S contenders
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On September 04 2016 07:23 VHbb wrote:
Bah I trust blizzard on this matter
I think they over-buff mech (or over-nerf its counters) to have it more tested on the balance map
Also reading TL you see everything and the opposite: people complain about mech OP, zerg lategame OP, adepts OP, etc.etc. basically in these community news threads everybody try to whine about the other 2 races to get some buffs for its own.
I really would like more if Blizzard didn't release these kind of statements and just proceeded to balance the game as they see fit, maybe talking with pros to get some feedback
Yeah... i wouldnt trust the balance team with anything. Most of the time they fail very hard... this is why the community always complains. They never fix the design problems, they just band aid forever.
Son should i remeind you that the kespa pros said specificaly that zerg sucks and needs 4 larva back because the new economy kills their natural advantage in the early to mid game...
And Blizzard stopped because the community was screaming Nooo ultras OP, i cant micro fuck the koreans... its the korean zerfs who are bad, eu is great...
So yeah... what can i say the balance team mirrors the whining community perfectly.
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Also just to not sound hypocitical.
There is a problem on the Zerg side to....
You can now 2 base nydus with 4 queens and pure roach.
The tankivac and the liberator where the things that stopped it... but now if they dont open liberator ( and most terrans stopped doing that ) their dead.
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On September 04 2016 02:55 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
Balance needs baby steps.
1.- This is a patch that is supposed to change design not balance, by making different styles and change the way they play, not to try to solve balance problems.
2.- The whole thing is supposed to be a big patch that changes a lot of stuff, taking baby steps is literaly what they DONT want to do.
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On September 04 2016 09:14 ShamanElemental1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2016 07:23 VHbb wrote:
Bah I trust blizzard on this matter
I think they over-buff mech (or over-nerf its counters) to have it more tested on the balance map
Also reading TL you see everything and the opposite: people complain about mech OP, zerg lategame OP, adepts OP, etc.etc. basically in these community news threads everybody try to whine about the other 2 races to get some buffs for its own.
I really would like more if Blizzard didn't release these kind of statements and just proceeded to balance the game as they see fit, maybe talking with pros to get some feedback Yeah... i wouldnt trust the balance team with anything. Most of the time they fail very hard... this is why the community always complains. They never fix the design problems, they just band aid forever. Son should i remeind you that the kespa pros said specificaly that zerg sucks and needs 4 larva back because the new economy kills their natural advantage in the early to mid game... And Blizzard stopped because the community was screaming Nooo ultras OP, i cant micro fuck the koreans... its the korean zerfs who are bad, eu is great... So yeah... what can i say the balance team mirrors the whining community perfectly.
Did you just call me son? 
Is it some patronising way of feeling superior in the discussion? Man people talk different on forums vs in reality.. :D
I guess we have different opinions, I enjoy sc2 very much so I trust the people who made it to keep doing a good job
I will give my feedback but I'm sure someone who works in sc2 daily knows more than me, random ladder player ..
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"Son" is kind of complicated...like usually it's a term of endearment, especially if it's "son son", but it's a verb as well and that doesn't have a good connotation. Like, if you were to be "sonned" that'd mean like publically humiliated. This is extremely location-specific and only something I've ever heard in the U.S. so that might not even be what happened.
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On September 03 2016 06:25 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't like the adept vision nerf because it makes shading quite coinflippy because you don't know if you're shading near banelings or something.
HP nerf/shade cooldown change/DPS nerf would be better.
Completely agree.
Amazing we still see changes like this suggested. David Kim has no clue.
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Bring back overkill on siege tanks like BW
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On September 04 2016 07:43 swissman777 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2016 07:38 emc wrote:
mech is too strong? and here I'm reading about Avilo complaining it's too weak still Well avilo's avilo. From my impression of him, he really is not your go-to gamer for design choices
I know more about the balance/design of this game more than 99% of the players/progamers that play this game, prob more than some designers themselves.
Don't buy into the image a few haters perpetuate of me. I also can play all 3 races/random at GM level (yep, i have on my main account many times).
For example, the guy i quoted just wrote that i am complaining mech is too weak still which is completely incorrect and out of context.
I have complained, along with other people, that for years mech has no anti-air unit capable of trading with carriers, tempests, BCS, etc. This in turn forces mech games to end up being turtle/stalemate games because it forces another 10+ minutes of the Terran accumulating mass viking+ravens (which are barely effective against parabomb/fungal/storm in the first place).
Do you see the difference in some random forum poster/hater posting "avilo is complaining mech weak" versus the analysis and description of a game design/balance issue that i just elaborated upon here? I hope you can see the difference.
As for my opinion on "Mech is too strong" just made a video about it and to summarize - just as many people have posted here...very few people have experience playing against mech, which is the only reason it would ever appear to be "too strong" when in fact it's probably just right atm on the test mod.
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pfftt, it is way too early to say mech is too strong. for protoss players, mech is a completely new style to play against and will take a LOT of time to figure out.
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A bit background. I am a diamond terran. I mech in pretty much all my games since HOTS. I am not a fast player, so going mech is just more suitable personally.
Here are my thoughts on mech TvZ from the past 2 weeks.
I hope blizzard just wait it out a bit longer and let the players figure out the game a bit more before jumping to nerf and buffs.Currently I think swarm host/hydras is a great answer to the new mech. Swarmhost combine with Hydras is a really great composition to go for.
While not saying any balance problems, here is my thought process.
Swarmhost is actually quite a fast unit. So on the hands of a good player, it can deal massive damage and it can retreat. I have tried many options, and found putting pressure on the zerg with Cyclone and Hellions are a great way to pin the swarmhost down. (Force the zerg to spawn locusts to defend instead at you.)
As mech player, it will not work anymore like in HOTS, if you just turtle home with tanks. The swarmhost will deal massive damage to a turtle Terran. Eventually you will lose.
This balance patch is really exciting. I have to constantly use Cyclone Hellions to gain map presences to pin down the swarmhosts. While trying to build up a mech army for the late game.
(To those saying Cyclone Hellion is too strong)
On the zerg side, I think lurkers are great for base defense. While going hydras+infestors to fungal the hellion cyclones is a great way to shut it down.
But seriously, I don't think anyone at this point can really make the call on what is strong.
Here is a few of my games to those interested.
https://www.twitch.tv/762berserk/v/87484132
You can see that I am trying to adapt in each game. So far I think Cyclone Hellion Liberator would be a strong mid-game composition for me.
You can even see my regular season TvZ mech games. I just sit home and mass up. The new TvZ mech is really exciting to play.
Again, really hope blizzard just wait it out longer before nerfing anything. Be it Zerg OP or Terran OP. I think the players need to find the right balance first with the coming match making system. We need more VODs and guides before the unit gets nerfed.
TLDR
1) Don't do balance change too fast.
2) Swarmhost hydras Infestors is great vs Mech.
3) Let players find solutions and figure out the meta.
4) New TvZ mech meta is very exciting.
5) I have VODs that shows huge comparison.
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These are suppose to be design changes get the design right first then balance. They keep trying to do both at the same time and then you never get anywhere. You have to make the game fun and dynamic through design, then balance it after that. Who cares if mech is OP right now, focus on making it viable and not broken then you can balance it.
How do they not get that?
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On September 04 2016 09:22 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
Also just to not sound hypocitical.
There is a problem on the Zerg side to....
You can now 2 base nydus with 4 queens and pure roach.
The tankivac and the liberator where the things that stopped it... but now if they dont open liberator ( and most terrans stopped doing that ) their dead.
Nice to hear the game is already figured out again! Who needs Koreans when you have ShamanElemental1?
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EPT
