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LotV Design Changes announced - Page 24

Forum Index > SC2 General
907 CommentsPost a Reply
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Vanadiel
Profile Joined April 2012
France961 Posts
August 15 2016 20:45 GMT
#461
On August 16 2016 04:55 ROOTFayth wrote:
doesn't make a lot of sense that you would stop BECAUSE of these changes if you played from wings of liberty onwards... expansions were bigger changes than these design changes, you never quit


I am just not interested to play against mech, so indeed I almost stopped at the end of HOTS but with good maps veto I avoided it most of the time, although I left the game when I scouted it. Now these are big chances that push mech play in the game, it pushes me out. ^^
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
August 15 2016 20:48 GMT
#462
I can't wait to slaughter everything with blink dts. More specifically, I can't wait for has and sOs to slaughter everything with blink dts.
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 15 2016 20:52 GMT
#463
Am i the only one who doesn't think that blink dts are too bad?
What does it really achieve? It has a "short" teleport on a fairly long cooldown after a pretty long research time.
I really fail to see why this would be incredibly strong. This seems more like a change that would affect gameplay if there wasn't a research for this, but with it?
I just don't see it, can anyone explain?
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-15 20:56:30
August 15 2016 20:56 GMT
#464
On August 16 2016 05:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Am i the only one who doesn't think that blink dts are too bad?
What does it really achieve? It has a "short" teleport on a fairly long cooldown after a pretty long research time.
I really fail to see why this would be incredibly strong. This seems more like a change that would affect gameplay if there wasn't a research for this, but with it?
I just don't see it, can anyone explain?

Evading scans becomes much easier. Therefore it's easier to waste more scans with fewer dts
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-15 21:00:09
August 15 2016 20:58 GMT
#465
The idea of blink DTs is the stuff of nightmares, but with the 2 minute research, it's really not that big a deal. You're not going to see blink dt rushes, it just increases DT survivability in the late game.

On August 16 2016 05:56 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2016 05:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Am i the only one who doesn't think that blink dts are too bad?
What does it really achieve? It has a "short" teleport on a fairly long cooldown after a pretty long research time.
I really fail to see why this would be incredibly strong. This seems more like a change that would affect gameplay if there wasn't a research for this, but with it?
I just don't see it, can anyone explain?

Evading scans becomes much easier. Therefore it's easier to waste more scans with fewer dts

They're also making Ravens a bit more useful. If DTs are such a big problem, I would probably look at a Raven, especially if the guy invests that much in his DTs.
Clonester
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany2808 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-15 21:02:44
August 15 2016 21:00 GMT
#466
Could you finally use DTs in some sort of army? Like holding them back, then jumping with them in an engagement into the enemy lines?

I dont think they are such a big problem in the beginning mid game: 2 minute research should delay their jumps enough to be prepared with overseer/raven on time. Only if you get caught offguard massive during the midgame, they will be game ending, but thats the same without the jumps. I think this upgrade is a classic "cool to have upgrade but we dont see it often" upgrade
Bomber, Attacker, DD, SOMEBODY, NiKo, Nex, Spidii
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 15 2016 21:03 GMT
#467
On August 16 2016 05:56 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2016 05:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Am i the only one who doesn't think that blink dts are too bad?
What does it really achieve? It has a "short" teleport on a fairly long cooldown after a pretty long research time.
I really fail to see why this would be incredibly strong. This seems more like a change that would affect gameplay if there wasn't a research for this, but with it?
I just don't see it, can anyone explain?

Evading scans becomes much easier. Therefore it's easier to waste more scans with fewer dts

Well yeah "stationary" detectors are a lot worse vs this, BUT this would be more of a dt buff if the dt could blink from the beginning.
It cannot though. So at the time it can you really, really should have observers/overseers anyway. In the case of terran you might actually want to build ravens now so, so sure in that case it's a bit different.

IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Edowyth
Profile Joined October 2010
United States183 Posts
August 15 2016 21:06 GMT
#468
On August 16 2016 06:00 Clonester wrote:
I think this upgrade is a classic "cool to have upgrade but we dont see it often" upgrade


+3 shields is done ... what am I missing?
"Q. How do I check a valid [e-]mail address? A. You can't, at least, not in real time. Bummer, eh?" /r/programming
Of course, you could just send them a validation email.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
August 15 2016 21:06 GMT
#469
On August 16 2016 06:03 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2016 05:56 Cricketer12 wrote:
On August 16 2016 05:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Am i the only one who doesn't think that blink dts are too bad?
What does it really achieve? It has a "short" teleport on a fairly long cooldown after a pretty long research time.
I really fail to see why this would be incredibly strong. This seems more like a change that would affect gameplay if there wasn't a research for this, but with it?
I just don't see it, can anyone explain?

Evading scans becomes much easier. Therefore it's easier to waste more scans with fewer dts

Well yeah "stationary" detectors are a lot worse vs this, BUT this would be more of a dt buff if the dt could blink from the beginning.
It cannot though. So at the time it can you really, really should have observers/overseers anyway. In the case of terran you might actually want to build ravens now so, so sure in that case it's a bit different.


Again, it may be possible to evade detectors and attack again later. We need to test it out to know for sure.
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 15 2016 21:08 GMT
#470
On August 16 2016 06:06 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2016 06:03 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On August 16 2016 05:56 Cricketer12 wrote:
On August 16 2016 05:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Am i the only one who doesn't think that blink dts are too bad?
What does it really achieve? It has a "short" teleport on a fairly long cooldown after a pretty long research time.
I really fail to see why this would be incredibly strong. This seems more like a change that would affect gameplay if there wasn't a research for this, but with it?
I just don't see it, can anyone explain?

Evading scans becomes much easier. Therefore it's easier to waste more scans with fewer dts

Well yeah "stationary" detectors are a lot worse vs this, BUT this would be more of a dt buff if the dt could blink from the beginning.
It cannot though. So at the time it can you really, really should have observers/overseers anyway. In the case of terran you might actually want to build ravens now so, so sure in that case it's a bit different.


Again, it may be possible to evade detectors and attack again later. We need to test it out to know for sure.

If the detector isn't stationary you just follow it can kill it anyway in most cases, no?
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
August 15 2016 21:10 GMT
#471
On August 16 2016 06:08 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2016 06:06 Cricketer12 wrote:
On August 16 2016 06:03 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On August 16 2016 05:56 Cricketer12 wrote:
On August 16 2016 05:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Am i the only one who doesn't think that blink dts are too bad?
What does it really achieve? It has a "short" teleport on a fairly long cooldown after a pretty long research time.
I really fail to see why this would be incredibly strong. This seems more like a change that would affect gameplay if there wasn't a research for this, but with it?
I just don't see it, can anyone explain?

Evading scans becomes much easier. Therefore it's easier to waste more scans with fewer dts

Well yeah "stationary" detectors are a lot worse vs this, BUT this would be more of a dt buff if the dt could blink from the beginning.
It cannot though. So at the time it can you really, really should have observers/overseers anyway. In the case of terran you might actually want to build ravens now so, so sure in that case it's a bit different.


Again, it may be possible to evade detectors and attack again later. We need to test it out to know for sure.

If the detector isn't stationary you just follow it can kill it anyway in most cases, no?

Right but you can juke it like Ryung's banshee in GSL.
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
n3p
Profile Blog Joined July 2016
93 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-15 21:13:30
August 15 2016 21:13 GMT
#472
The infestor is back boys! Nothing is more terrifying than the four-festor hit squad.
Edit: Misspelled a word cause dumb.
This is a fucking joke. Fuck you. - RIP IdrA
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 15 2016 21:15 GMT
#473
On August 16 2016 06:13 n3p wrote:
The infestor is back boys! Nothing is more terrifying than the four-festor hit squad.
Edit: Misspelled a word cause dumb.

There is absolutely now way the port ability will actually be in the game.
Being able to cast while burrowed maybe, i feel like this should be an upgrade though. In general i feel like upgrades are underused quite a lot.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 15 2016 21:17 GMT
#474
On August 16 2016 05:52 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Am i the only one who doesn't think that blink dts are too bad?
What does it really achieve? It has a "short" teleport on a fairly long cooldown after a pretty long research time.
I really fail to see why this would be incredibly strong. This seems more like a change that would affect gameplay if there wasn't a research for this, but with it?
I just don't see it, can anyone explain?


I mean I can see multiple reasons (effecting Terran more then Zerg).

DT"s can blink up and down a cliff. So even with overlords in position/supply depos you won't be ready for it when they decide to teleport to your main/natural/third/etc.

For Terran this is a bigger deal because imagine scanning a DT and BAM it's out of range thanks to blink. So have to use another one.

I can see this being a major pain in the ass for Terran more so then Zerg cause overseers and all that. I don't think DT's need a buff at all, I would rather dark archons
When I think of something else, something will go here
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 15 2016 21:21 GMT
#475
DT"s can blink up and down a cliff. So even with overlords in position/supply depos you won't be ready for it when they decide to teleport to your main/natural/third/etc.


That's actually a good point but at the same time i am also not sure if you really want to use it to get in with ~20 seconds cool down.

Other than that i think it isn't really scary if you have mobile detection already (which you really should at that point tbh). Terrans have to build ravens probably, so there is that.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55561 Posts
August 15 2016 21:27 GMT
#476
On August 16 2016 06:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2016 06:13 n3p wrote:
The infestor is back boys! Nothing is more terrifying than the four-festor hit squad.
Edit: Misspelled a word cause dumb.

There is absolutely now way the port ability will actually be in the game.
Being able to cast while burrowed maybe, i feel like this should be an upgrade though. In general i feel like upgrades are underused quite a lot.

As a Terran I'd much rather deal with teleporting infestors than burrowed fungals
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 15 2016 21:33 GMT
#477
On August 16 2016 06:27 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2016 06:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On August 16 2016 06:13 n3p wrote:
The infestor is back boys! Nothing is more terrifying than the four-festor hit squad.
Edit: Misspelled a word cause dumb.

There is absolutely now way the port ability will actually be in the game.
Being able to cast while burrowed maybe, i feel like this should be an upgrade though. In general i feel like upgrades are underused quite a lot.

As a Terran I'd much rather deal with teleporting infestors than burrowed fungals


Teleporting gives the infestor basically free "perfect" positioning if you have some sort of vision which is rather easy with zerg (overlords, creep, some lings)
While burrowed movement is similar you still can counter that with detection. I feel the the raven needs maybe some love if the dt and burrow change actually make it though.

On the other hand blizzard seems to like teleportation quite a lot in general (warpins, nydus, bc, now infestor) so who knows.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55561 Posts
August 15 2016 21:45 GMT
#478
On August 16 2016 06:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 16 2016 06:27 Elentos wrote:
On August 16 2016 06:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On August 16 2016 06:13 n3p wrote:
The infestor is back boys! Nothing is more terrifying than the four-festor hit squad.
Edit: Misspelled a word cause dumb.

There is absolutely now way the port ability will actually be in the game.
Being able to cast while burrowed maybe, i feel like this should be an upgrade though. In general i feel like upgrades are underused quite a lot.

As a Terran I'd much rather deal with teleporting infestors than burrowed fungals


Teleporting gives the infestor basically free "perfect" positioning if you have some sort of vision which is rather easy with zerg (overlords, creep, some lings)
While burrowed movement is similar you still can counter that with detection. I feel the the raven needs maybe some love if the dt and burrow change actually make it though.

On the other hand blizzard seems to like teleportation quite a lot in general (warpins, nydus, bc, now infestor) so who knows.

Yeah the raven being a terrible unit to make might be why. It's slow, it's expensive, it's easy to snipe, it doesn't synergize well with bio and you need a tech lab on your starport. I mean if mech takes over the world this wouldn't be such a big deal because most mech units laugh at fungal, burrowed or not.

But they might want to look into helping out bio in the lategame somehow. Maybe making ravens useful helps.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
August 15 2016 21:52 GMT
#479
Yeah i think the raven is a unit which needs a total redesign tbh. One of the least interesting units in the game, as a spellcaster.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
nichan
Profile Joined December 2010
United States158 Posts
August 15 2016 21:53 GMT
#480
Is the map going live today?
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