EPTLotV Design Changes announced - Page 17
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BelialSC2
38 Posts
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
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SinQuar
3 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On August 15 2016 13:57 FoxShine wrote: Full on mech from HotS, except now they have liberators for cover and cyclones to mix with hellbats. PvT is going to be untenable against mech. Has PvT ever been untenable against mech in SC2? There were attempts on occasion especially during betas, but bio has always ended up as the default composition. Quite frankly, we have seen so little of mech TvP in SC2 that it's hard to say what it'll be like when it becomes more viable or even dominant in the meta. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2065 Posts
Some of it doesn't even make sense. Some of it is renegging on old design philosophies. Honestly seems like they are trying to recreate BW stuff, using SC2 units. Like what the hell? This tank change seems pretty broken vs Z early game which would snowball. How are Z supposed to counter tanks if they esssentially 1 shot everything with smart cast? There was a huge problem during alpha and early WOL where tanks got nerfed so they didn't destroy lings so hard. | ||
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WinterViewbot420
345 Posts
The best reaction I have heard about this is what Scan said, which I quote "is fucking retarded. There's so much more that could be worked on and they want to give DT blink, that's just stupid." Not my quote Seeker pls no ban. There really is a bunch that could be worked on and while I really do like the tank change because tankivacs are one of the biggest reasons I switched to BW, some of the other things sound stupid. I also like the Hydralisk change but I don't know how effective it'll be without nerfing some other units. Overall I like the drastic changes, I like that Blizzard is going with extreme/jarring changes so late into Legacy of the Void, but this is what the beta was for and I'm overall disappointed it took this long and this many people leaving for Overwatch or Brood War to get anything out of them. | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On August 15 2016 13:57 FoxShine wrote: Full on mech from HotS, except now they have liberators for cover and cyclones to mix with hellbats. PvT is going to be untenable against mech. The main reason that noone has played mech against Protoss since beta is because blizzard gave Protoss a single unit that makes everything the Factory produces obsolete, in addition to actually buffing that unit multiple times while hitting the Siege Tank with nothing but nerfs time and again. One thing that always stuck out for me is that most of the new units that came out with every expansion seemed in some way designed to help Zerg and Protoss deal with Siege Tanks more easily. This always struck me as a little odd since on the one hand, those units were very micro-intensive, which makes them all but useless for casual players since they lack the APM required to control both their clumped-up army and all the different unit types in it, and on the other hand because Siege Tanks were hardly ever used in any of the none-mirror TvX matchups on the professional level. TvP has been MMM since beta, and TvZ has most of the time revolved around either dropping everywhere with bio, or MMM parade pushes. I think it's a good thing that Siege Tanks will finally be worthy of the name again. It'll be refreshing to see some more positional play. I strongly feel that the current way of playing Terran (attacking everywhere at once) only works if your opponent has worse multitasking skills than you have. Polt vs True (WCS Montreal 2016) has clearly shown that if your opponent can keep up or even outmultitask you, you're pretty much dead in the water from the start. One of the reasons I stopped playing Starcraft 2 is because Siege Tanks were my favourite unit by far (I prefer slower, more positional play since I don't exactly have high APM) but just playing them put me at a severe disadvantage. I also found it pretty pathetic that a Siege Tank in siege mode couldn't even kill a single zergling in one shot, and that a bunch of squishy zerglings could overrun a number of tanks without much effort. In TvT it's even more funny: oh look, Siege Tanks, let's clear them out of the way with some... marines. | ||
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WinterViewbot420
345 Posts
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DisillusionedAcronym
190 Posts
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
On August 15 2016 13:18 TheWinks wrote: Ultra armor still needs to be nerfed. If they're unwilling to do it on live servers, this is the perfect time to touch the ultra. make tanks, they're getting +20 vs ultras | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On August 15 2016 14:59 Topdoller wrote: If they are going to revamp the game like this, why don't they introduce unit spacing .and get rid of these death ball,. sc2 biggest down fall. Wow, is it 2011 again? Haven't this complaint in years. | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
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FataLe
New Zealand4541 Posts
On August 15 2016 13:04 scoo2r wrote: Great changes suggested, only disappointment was no roach-hydra sitting on top ability. damn that's baller | ||
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xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
Personally I am not finding protoss fun in LotV (Zerg is more exciting imo) and I recently switched races to Zerg. If these changes go through Terran looks to be the most fun race with their late-game seemingly reinstated, I might just jump races once again. The new protoss changes just don't excite me very much either- blink DTs are necessary to fight mech but otherwise unappealing, and carriers being good is awesome but would only encourage more turtle play. But there's no need to overreact to all these. Many of them might not go through anyway. EDIT: I don't get why people think protoss are getting big buffs. Blink DTs are going to be extremely expensive, still destroyed by detection and slow to come out (it takes research on the dark shrine), on top of being the only change expressly called "unlikely to make it". Carriers got a huge buff and awesome quality-of-life change by autobuilding them right off the bat, but if the only way to play toss is turtle-to-carriers I would NOT play that race. The ravager getting armored is definitely a buff to protoss against zerg because it makes ravagers tofu against stalkers and immortals. The roach-ravager allin was evil and ridiculously frustrating to stop in a matchup which is already frustrating. Imagine having to teach new protoss players that you have to simcity perfectly (literally 1 hole and zerglings fuck you over) and also needing to prepare for an extremely hard-hitting allin attack. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On August 15 2016 15:51 WinterViewbot420 wrote: Hey speaking of mech, what about Blink Stalkers? If cyclones destroy them and that siege tanks hit at 70 vs armored, suddently protosses won't be able to counter mech with only blink stalkers => tempest, which is the go-to BS right now to counter mech | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
I'm interested. They're redesigning Starcraft from A to Z. Razzia of Blizzsters?! | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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SpaceJam
United States116 Posts
That is my greatest fear: top level Koreans (mostly KESPA teams only) leaving the game because of its ever evolving volatility and absolute refusal to become static for a period of twelve months without being boring (patchzergs, cheesy allins at beginning of expansions) or downright imbalanced. edit: Also, to all the players who are yearning for mech, why do you want this to be in the game? It's less fun to watch, it's less fun to play (and play against), and once mech becomes stronged than bio by even just %5 of games per matchup, the standard for playing those matchups will turn into 100% mech based, with maybe a couple cheeses or early bio timings meant to crush certain openings. This is incredibly sad to me, as watching and playing with bio is the most satisfying thing in all of SC2 in my opinion. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
There are some buildings that take an extraordinarily long time to construct, most noticeably the dark shrine and the spire. The dark templar and the mutalisk have something in common: a large number of these units can easily catch an unsuspecting player off guard because they lack detection or anti-air, meaning that these units can be very decisive especially early on. I am not sure why there are no upgrades in place for this pair to weaken their early strength, given that Blizzard elected to turn to a similar strategy with the banshee, a unit that can't be easily built in high numbers. Ultralisks too require a carapace upgrade before reaching full strength, reducing the surprise factor. I have long since thought that at a minimum zerg air units should be balanced around more easily accessible weapon upgrades, while giving the spire a reduced build time; but possibly something else. An idea that I proposed a few years ago along these lines was a shielding ability for dark templar: temporarily increases armor by 10, possibly makes the unit visible and possibly removes attack for the duration; it could also be an on-off switch. The point was to give the dark templar some resilience when faced with detection, forcing the enemy to surround or cut it off or risk it escaping. Personally I feel that even with the vague contours of the ability I sketched, there is enough to suggest it's more interesting than Blizzard's concept. Blink has always been an ability which gives you instantly an ideal position with no cost, to a certain extent it makes battle positioning less intriguing though it's compensated for by some cool tactics. I can't foretell if dark templars can easily exploit this new power, but it could be that it just stops you from ever killing them leaving them a permanent nuisance. | ||
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TAKK.borg
Croatia93 Posts
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