• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:58
CEST 08:58
KST 15:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week0[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation14$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced6Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation RSL Season 1 - Final Week The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [G] Progamer Settings ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Positive Thoughts on Setting Up a Dual-Caliber FX
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Summer Games Done Quick 2025! US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 583 users

LotV Design Changes announced - Page 19

Forum Index > SC2 General
907 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 46 Next All
TheWildShooter
Profile Joined September 2011
79 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-15 10:29:08
August 15 2016 10:21 GMT
#361
It's funny how no one noticed that cyclones are getting insane buffs, which in current version will make this unit OP.

I'm just gonna summarize some of the most important changes of Cyclone:

OLD -> NEW
Supply: 4 -> 3
HP: 120 -> 180
Range: 5 -> 6
DPS: 18 -> 30 (+30 vs armored)

As for DPS, even Liberators in defender mode have 53,125 DPS, and they want to give Cyclone 60 DPS vs armored.

And they can be reactored... #LegacyOfTheJoke

P.S. numbers for DPS are given in Blizzard seconds
oGsMC <3
Darkdwarf
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Sweden960 Posts
August 15 2016 10:22 GMT
#362
I like the idea of having a big patch after BlizzCon each year.
Teams: IM, Jin Air, Invictus || Players: Maru, GuMiho, INnoVation, Ryung, sOs, Squirtle, NaNiwa, Has, Zoun, Life, Rogue, Dark
Isualin
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1903 Posts
August 15 2016 10:28 GMT
#363
I thought cyclones would be changed to counter ultras. What is the dps a 3-3 cyclone would have against a 7-3 ultra now?
| INnoVation | The literal god TY | ByuNjwa | LRSL when? |
Meeii
Profile Joined July 2015
155 Posts
August 15 2016 10:28 GMT
#364
On August 15 2016 18:21 WhosQuany wrote:
..
Dark Templar:

Don't know about giving them "Blink" doesn't feel right

How about not having a Dark Shrine for the requirement of Dark Templar

Remove Dark Shrine like in BW Dark Templar can be built from Templar Archives

this way an you never now if a Protoss is going Storm or getting Dark Templar or both
..


Joking.... right? DT is such a bullshit unit and can simply win the game on the spot just because the opponent lack detection. With lower requirements you better just build turrents everywhere because you never know if he may build one and you lack energy for scans.
TheWildShooter
Profile Joined September 2011
79 Posts
August 15 2016 10:35 GMT
#365
I thought cyclones would be changed to counter ultras. What is the dps a 3-3 cyclone would have against a 7-3 ultra now?


If you are considering situation where ultras have +3 armor and chitinous plating then cyclones will do 5 dps vs ultras without +3 attack, and 10 dps with +3 attack. Yeah, cyclones won't counter ultras, but for this task you will have tanks and liberators, and ghosts.
oGsMC <3
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-15 10:40:13
August 15 2016 10:38 GMT
#366
First reaction is hype. Most hype since WoL was announced probably Never thought they would go ahead and make huge changes like these.

Then after a careful read... Feels like protoss gets the shaft yet again, with terran and zergs buffs across the board while toss gets blink DTs (lolwat) and slightly faster zealots. People hate DTs already, and giving a gimmick unit a gimmick ability is redundant. Tempests get a new ability that replaces the long range attack vs ground, which means their role stays the exact same.

With buffed tanks, cyclones, hydras and banes... Blink DTs is not what protoss needs. What protoss needs is the shade ability for zealots.

Edit: Oh yeah cyclone numbers will be tweaked no doubt, so they aren't blatantly OP. Probably also increase the cost.
Revolutionist fan
StatixEx
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United Kingdom779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-15 11:20:44
August 15 2016 10:43 GMT
#367
all these changes are great when a player just won a major tourney building nothing but lings and banes and counter attacking . . LOL

And mass cyclone incoming, warhound much?
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
August 15 2016 10:45 GMT
#368
On August 15 2016 19:38 Salteador Neo wrote:

Then after a careful read... Feels like protoss gets the shaft yet again, with terran and zergs buffs across the board while toss gets blink DTs (lolwat) and slightly faster zealots. People hate DTs already, and giving a gimmick unit a gimmick ability is redundant. Tempests get a new ability that replaces the long range attack vs ground, which means their role stays the exact same.


DT blink isn't a gimmick. It's essentially a way to maintain your DTs even if the Terran scanned your stuff. Basically making DTs not a one-trick-pony anymore.
Xsyq
Profile Joined December 2015
143 Posts
August 15 2016 10:47 GMT
#369
Just a quick note that I don't think anyone's mentioned yet. The Thor splash radius increase means that it will hit multiple mutas even if they are magic boxed. I remember getting curious and testing a similar change back in WOL, and 3 thors could take on ~20 magic boxed mutas. So that's a pretty big buff against muta/ling, especially with tanks one-shotting zerglings. Won't help at all against broodlords or vipers though.
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3365 Posts
August 15 2016 10:54 GMT
#370
On August 15 2016 19:21 TheWildShooter wrote:
It's funny how no one noticed that cyclones are getting insane buffs, which in current version will make this unit OP.

I'm just gonna summarize some of the most important changes of Cyclone:

OLD -> NEW
Supply: 4 -> 3
HP: 120 -> 180
Range: 5 -> 6
DPS: 18 -> 30 (+30 vs armored)

As for DPS, even Liberators in defender mode have 53,125 DPS, and they want to give Cyclone 60 DPS vs armored.

And they can be reactored... #LegacyOfTheJoke

P.S. numbers for DPS are given in Blizzard seconds

While I don't doubt you that the new Cyclone is most likely too powerful, the power of the old Cyclone came solely from the Lock-On ability which is now removed vs Ground. First of all this needs to be tested first, but I would prefer weaker numbers and then give them turret-tracking, like Immortals and Siege Tanks.

On August 15 2016 19:43 StatixEx wrote:
all these changes are great when a player just won a major tourney building nothing but lings and banes and counter attacking . . LOL,

Dat 40 hp Baneling tho..
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
RaFox17
Profile Joined May 2013
Finland4581 Posts
August 15 2016 11:14 GMT
#371
On August 15 2016 19:45 KeksX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2016 19:38 Salteador Neo wrote:

Then after a careful read... Feels like protoss gets the shaft yet again, with terran and zergs buffs across the board while toss gets blink DTs (lolwat) and slightly faster zealots. People hate DTs already, and giving a gimmick unit a gimmick ability is redundant. Tempests get a new ability that replaces the long range attack vs ground, which means their role stays the exact same.


DT blink isn't a gimmick. It's essentially a way to maintain your DTs even if the Terran scanned your stuff. Basically making DTs not a one-trick-pony anymore.

Dt+WP achieves that goal with more skill involved.
Wohodix
Profile Joined September 2011
France34 Posts
August 15 2016 11:24 GMT
#372
I dont like this.
I dont see the point of destroying the whole actual meta, when people have not figure out anything yet.

I feel they do BIG CHANGES to please all the people who loose their game and think it is because their is some OP stupid units, when there is lots of tools to improve instead of complaining in thread.
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-15 11:34:06
August 15 2016 11:32 GMT
#373
On August 15 2016 20:14 RaFox17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2016 19:45 KeksX wrote:
On August 15 2016 19:38 Salteador Neo wrote:

Then after a careful read... Feels like protoss gets the shaft yet again, with terran and zergs buffs across the board while toss gets blink DTs (lolwat) and slightly faster zealots. People hate DTs already, and giving a gimmick unit a gimmick ability is redundant. Tempests get a new ability that replaces the long range attack vs ground, which means their role stays the exact same.


DT blink isn't a gimmick. It's essentially a way to maintain your DTs even if the Terran scanned your stuff. Basically making DTs not a one-trick-pony anymore.

Dt+WP achieves that goal with more skill involved.


My thoughts exactly. DTs and every protoss unit can already have pseudo blink thanks to ranged prism pickup. So the proposed idea is even more redundant. And the DT is a gimmicky harass unit, not a core one. Why would anyone research blink for them instead of just making a prism, that costs only minerals and has many more uses.

Change zealot "leg upgrade" from charge+speed to (adept)shade+speed. Now that would be useful to the melee unit that keeps getting bullied by adepts, terran bio and roach/ravager/hydra/fungal.
Revolutionist fan
Tyrhanius
Profile Joined April 2011
France947 Posts
August 15 2016 11:34 GMT
#374
On August 15 2016 18:01 MiCroLiFe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2016 17:56 Tyrhanius wrote:
70 dmg tank ? And players say it's good for the game ?

Why not lurker with 13 range +30 vs armor and no upgrade to lurker den required if positionnal play if so good !


Creating a no man's land of 13 range around the unit isn't good for the game.

The unit comes way earlier than its counter.

And while 70 dmg is already OP they nerf ravager so it will take 70 dmg /shot or decrease broodlords range for no reason.

And bio still OP as before with larvas nerf.

Sadly a make terran op patch cause they give way more to T than they give to Z/P.



about time terran got a patch zerg been 2 stronk in lotv

According to terran's whine only, not according to statistic.

If T mech become a thing, considering how easy it's to play mech a lot of P/Z will probably switch terran and the ladder will become de TvT fest.
neutralrobot
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia1025 Posts
August 15 2016 11:38 GMT
#375
I think tankivacs in their current form make some stuff really silly, but I'm not sure I think the idea should be 100% scrapped. How about needing to be researched, and also having a long cooldown on the medivac before they can pick up a tank again? Or even one sieged tank pickup per medivac. Use once, ability finished. Something like that. It could still suck, but the tradeoff of course is that you commit to that tank position and if there's something you didn't see, it gets obliterated.

I'm also disappointed that if they're considering such radical changes, they aren't re-envisioning the adept and warp prism.

(Full disclosure: I say all this from a spectator's view, not as someone who plays the game.)
Maru | Life | PartinG || I guess I like aggressive control freaks... || Reynor will one day reign supreme || *reyn supreme
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
August 15 2016 11:38 GMT
#376
On August 15 2016 18:43 Isualin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2016 18:21 WhosQuany wrote:
Disruption Sphere: lol? PSI STORM from a Tempest? no thanks Trash the Tempest even though this could counter LURKER play

I think this ability could be utilized really well.
13 cast range, 14 dps for 32 seconds and 43 second cooldown(~75% uptime)


I think they're probably going to heavily nerf this ability because it's like a force field storm. It has no friendly fire, which means that it counters the broodlord/corruptor/viper comp. Stalkers will be much stronger against broodlords with a psi storm shield doing 14 dps against everything on the ground around it.

Late-game ling based compositions will also be heavily nerfed because lings only last for three seconds against a non-friendly fire storm.

Also means that you can't mine for 32 seconds or your entire mineral line is super wiped. Or against counter attacks, a tempest or two can protect almost a probe line.

Against Terran I don't think it's as powerful, but it does mean that heavy bio/liberator comps will be a bit easier to deal with since the bio won't be able to cover exposed liberators as easily.

There are so many ways you could use this spell that I don't really think it will have anywhere near the same damage and/or duration in its final interation.
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
Disciple7seveN
Profile Joined December 2009
France28 Posts
August 15 2016 11:56 GMT
#377
For me, the problem with the way they balance the game is that they seem to balance Zerg and Protoss against Terran. Like they balance the two with terran tech in mind instead of creating ideas from scratch. This patch seems like more of the same. They buff/tweak some T units but immediately provide Z/P with the responses ready-made instead of letting them figure it out like T had to do with the oracle, for instance. (when that thing came out, it was a free-for-all for pvt for a good while)... Why not create the potential problems with the T buffs then see how things shake out?

Imo the infestor buff and the zealot buff are the most ridiculous...
This one is constantly thinking, analyzing, strategizing. He showed no fear, but was curious, studying me in turn.
FLuE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1012 Posts
August 15 2016 12:01 GMT
#378
On August 15 2016 20:24 Wohodix wrote:
I dont like this.
I dont see the point of destroying the whole actual meta, when people have not figure out anything yet.

I feel they do BIG CHANGES to please all the people who loose their game and think it is because their is some OP stupid units, when there is lots of tools to improve instead of complaining in thread.


The game in its current state simply isn't as fun or dynamic as it could/should be. Who cares about the meta if there is nobody left to play the game?

A lot of these changes could lead to better games and a lot more enjoyable play all around. Staying the course no matter how balanced the game is doesn't help because the game in its current form lacks potential and is frustrating in so many ways. Does this fix it? Probably not because they won't be ballsy enough to go through with major changes but if they do they could get this thing going the right way while there is still a player base to support it.
ihatevideogames
Profile Joined August 2015
570 Posts
August 15 2016 12:10 GMT
#379
Why are people so scared of turtling?
LOTV economy ensures that you will never actually see a turtle game on a pro level.

You might get the occasional turtle mech ladder game on New Gettysburg, but that's more because of the map than anything else.
PressureSC2
Profile Joined January 2016
122 Posts
August 15 2016 12:12 GMT
#380
I stopped playing a few months ago because I thought Blizzard had given up on actually fixing Mech. I am very excited to see that they are changing directions on all of this.

These changes definitely have the potential to make the game great again, and what I had hoped LOTV would bring !!
Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 46 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 213
StarCraft: Brood War
Noble 102
JulyZerg 39
Bale 19
Dota 2
ODPixel228
NeuroSwarm97
League of Legends
JimRising 670
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor111
Other Games
summit1g9756
shahzam773
Stewie2K719
monkeys_forever365
SortOf95
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick37343
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH382
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• tankgirl 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2102
League of Legends
• Lourlo1266
• Stunt585
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
3h 2m
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
6h 2m
Replay Cast
17h 2m
RSL Revival
1d 3h
Classic vs Cure
FEL
1d 9h
OSC
1d 13h
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
2 days
FEL
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.